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Post by Baseballmom23 on Aug 4, 2014 16:49:33 GMT
I’m not sure how to feel about this.
A co worker was telling me this morning that upon the passing of his MIL they went to the funeral home to have her cremated. They wanted the same type of services that the FIL had 14 years ago. For the FIL they had him cremated and scattered at the garden of the funeral home (apparently if you don’t want the ashes buried or want to take them home, the funeral home will scatter them in their garden on the property. Kind of like a mass grave situation). Well when they pulled the file, they had no record of the services for the FIL. The family is certain he died and they have a death certificate but no one ever followed up on the services they paid for. The surviving children now want a refund if the funeral home can’t prove that they cremated and scatter in the garden the FIL’s ashes. I understand what they are saying about the money but no one wanted to bring the ashes home or bury them because “it was too expensive” so they scattered them in the garden of the funeral home. The family is now demanding paperwork from 14 years ago that FIL was cremated and scattered or they are going to sue and report the mortuary to the state. What do you think?
BTW, it was going to be more expensive to have MIL cremated and scattered versus having her cremated and brought home in a cardboard box, so MIL is in the linen closet.
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Post by shevy on Aug 4, 2014 16:52:06 GMT
There can be devestating emotional issues with there is fraud within the funeral services industry. I believe that funeral homes/mortuaries need to keep good records for this reason. I'd probably persue it further, not to get moeny in return, but to know that they did what they said they would.
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Post by bianca42 on Aug 4, 2014 16:52:15 GMT
I wonder how far back they are supposed to keep records. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 14 years...so I can't see them getting anywhere with a lawsuit.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 18:27:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 16:53:51 GMT
Oh God this is like my worst nightmare. This is another reason I am adamantly against having myself cremated when i die!
What a nightmare!
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caro
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Post by caro on Aug 4, 2014 16:55:48 GMT
That is an interesting situation. My dad was cremated and the funeral home still has the ashes(I hope) because my mom wants her ashes mixed with his then buried at their grave site.
It could lead to an investigation of that funeral homes practices. Maybe they didn't 't do what they said and other clients have the same problem. It happened in GA.
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Post by Basket1lady on Aug 4, 2014 16:59:45 GMT
If they have no record for the FIL, is it possible that another funeral home handled the remains? It seems like there would be at least a record of the process.
If your MIl's bank records aren't available, you could look for a memorial card or a newspaper notice. They usually list the funeral home.
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wellway
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Post by wellway on Aug 4, 2014 17:03:10 GMT
Did no one from the family attend the scattering of the ashes? That woud be a big part of the process to me. I can't imagine not being present for that.
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Post by Baseballmom23 on Aug 4, 2014 17:14:29 GMT
Did no one from the family attend the scattering of the ashes? That woud be a big part of the process to me. I can't imagine not being present for that. No one from the family was there to witness the scattering. They are going to go to the hospital to see if the hospital has records of releasing the body to a funeral home. I even suggested they see if by chance the funeral home took in a John Doe; maybe they got the name mixed up?
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Post by Baseballmom23 on Aug 4, 2014 17:15:31 GMT
If they have no record for the FIL, is it possible that another funeral home handled the remains? It seems like there would be at least a record of the process. If your MIl's bank records aren't available, you could look for a memorial card or a newspaper notice. They usually list the funeral home. The family is very thrifty hence cremation and no services. There was no memorial card or newspaper notice.
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Post by Baseballmom23 on Aug 4, 2014 17:18:17 GMT
I wonder how far back they are supposed to keep records. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 14 years...so I can't see them getting anywhere with a lawsuit. They are going to call the State Board that regulates funeral homes. I guess I'm not sure what they are trying to rectify with a law suit. Aren't law suits to right a wrong? Yes I know there is fraud in the industry but given what the services the family expected, I'm not sure.
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wellway
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Post by wellway on Aug 4, 2014 17:24:22 GMT
The family is very thrifty hence cremation and no services. There was no memorial card or newspaper notice. Okay this is going to sound hard so apologies, but if they gave so little concern about ensuring a fitting send off at the time what are they getting worked up about now?
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Post by colleen on Aug 4, 2014 17:30:02 GMT
This reminds me of when my mom passed. After her cremation, but before she was interred my dad put her urn on the dining room table. I just remember thinking, "Mom would never sit on the table." So I put her in her chair.
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Aug 4, 2014 17:32:36 GMT
Okay this is going to sound hard so apologies, but if they gave so little concern about ensuring a fitting send off at the time what are they getting worked up about now? That thought went through my mind too. 14 years? A bit late to be crying foul. Is there a sniff of some compensation? Today is the 10th anniversary of my dear old Dad's death, coincidentally. I can still remember the moving ceremony when we had his ashes interred in the family grave, and the grandchildren all doing a little reading. I can't imagine not having done this.
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Post by sisterbdsq on Aug 4, 2014 17:35:01 GMT
I think I'd start ignoring this crackpot co-worker and his effed up family drama.
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Post by redshoes on Aug 4, 2014 17:37:27 GMT
The family is very thrifty hence cremation and no services. There was no memorial card or newspaper notice. Okay this is going to sound hard so apologies, but if they gave so little concern about ensuring a fitting send off at the time what are they getting worked up about now? I agree with this....if it was that important, the family should have followed up 14 years ago.
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Post by moveablefeast on Aug 4, 2014 17:37:42 GMT
Can the county coroner tell them where the body was taken after death? that would at least confirm which funeral home handled the arrangements. It is probably different in different states but there may be an official record somewhere of the chain of custody of the body.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 17:42:07 GMT
That's interesting because both of my parents were cremated with no service, but we had to identify the body at the funeral home prior to cremation. I just assumed that was law or normal protocol, but maybe the funeral home was just more on top of things.
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Post by pierkiss on Aug 4, 2014 17:45:09 GMT
I think they are raw from losing their mother, and upon hearing this news they reacted. I also think that 14 years is a long time, and I think it's ridiculous that they are just now following up on whether or not their father was sprinkled in the garden. That should have been done a day or 2 later. I am also wondering how long the funeral home has to keep files on their previous clients. I know for me in my field it is 10 years, and then I can destroy my files. But I am not in the mortuary business.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 4, 2014 18:00:35 GMT
I wonder how far back they are supposed to keep records. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 14 years...so I can't see them getting anywhere with a lawsuit. They are going to call the State Board that regulates funeral homes. I guess I'm not sure what they are trying to rectify with a law suit. Aren't law suits to right a wrong? Yes I know there is fraud in the industry but given what the services the family expected, I'm not sure. I imagine that if they found out that instead of being cremated, the body had been donated to a medical school - the family could rightly be upset about the treatment of the remains. While the family clearly didn't have a high level of interest in disposition of the remains, that doesn't mean that the funeral home could do anything they wanted with the body and the family would be fine with it.
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Post by kmcginn on Aug 4, 2014 18:12:57 GMT
There are a few possibilities:
First off, the FH may have been purchased by another company since then - 14 years is a long time - and they may not have the records.
Secondly, usually ay scattering that is done is done in/by a cemetery, not a funeral home. If the FH doesn't have a cemetery attached, then the scattering service was more than likely done by a cemetery. The cemetery name should be listed on the Death Certificate which is a matter of public record, or they should be able to get a copy.
The crematory may not have been a part of the funeral home. Not every funeral home has a crematory. If that's the case, then they need to spek to the actual crematory. That too should be listed on teh death certificate.
There has to be more to the story. They shouldn't jump right to fraud at the funeral home. Most are very forthright and complaint with all state laws. The ones that aren't are much fewer than the ones that are above board.
And, yes, I work in the industry.
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Post by Meri-Lyn on Aug 4, 2014 18:13:52 GMT
My grandfather died in 1976, also cremated without any service (it was his request.) No one could decide what to do with the ashes, so the funeral home kept them in a vault. A few years later, there was a fire at the funeral home, and everything in the vault was destroyed, along with any records.
I don't get waiting 14 years to figure out what happened. Maybe I'm jaded, but it sounds like they are just trying to come up with a money grab.
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Peal
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Post by Peal on Aug 4, 2014 18:42:15 GMT
The family is very thrifty hence cremation and no services. There was no memorial card or newspaper notice. Okay this is going to sound hard so apologies, but if they gave so little concern about ensuring a fitting send off at the time what are they getting worked up about now? This is how I feel too. No one cared then,why do they care now? They don't sound thrifty, they sound hard. But they are grieving the loss of their mother so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Nanner
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Post by Nanner on Aug 4, 2014 19:32:32 GMT
When my ex-husband died, my kids made the decision to have him cremated. The funeral home charges if you don't pick up the ashes within 6 months.
And that is why my ex-husband "resides" in my garage (sigh). I don't want him there. My husband doesn't want him there. My kids don't even live at home anymore, but they won't sit down and discuss what they want done with his ashes. So, for my kids, we just leave things the way they are. Kind of gruesome, in a way.
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Post by turangaleela on Aug 4, 2014 19:34:16 GMT
This reminds me of when my mom passed. After her cremation, but before she was interred my dad put her urn on the dining room table. I just remember thinking, "Mom would never sit on the table." So I put her in her chair. That is really sweet.
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Post by katlaw on Aug 4, 2014 19:43:34 GMT
I think 14 years is a long time. In that time the funeral home probably went from paper to computerized records. Whoever arranged for the cremation and having the ashes scattered got a copy of paperwork and receipt for the service back when it was arranged. Are they actually implying the funeral home never had the body just because they cannot provide a piece of paper saying they had it and cremated it? If he died in a hospital someone from the hospital would have called the family to say arrangements had not been made yet if that was the case. The hospital would not have kept a body for very long. Your co-worker's family did not care enough to come watch the ashes being scattered and now they are trying to say it did not happen and they want their money back. That is absurd. That is like going to the car dealership and saying since they did not keep a copy of a 14 year old receipt to prove they sold you a car and now you say you never got it that they owe you a refund.
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Post by Merge on Aug 4, 2014 19:47:58 GMT
Fourteen years? We only have to keep tax return info for seven. I think the family is being ridiculous.
FIL is sitting in a box in MIL's closet because of the expense of having the ashes scattered or interred.
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scrappert
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Post by scrappert on Aug 4, 2014 19:50:23 GMT
The family is very thrifty hence cremation and no services. There was no memorial card or newspaper notice. Okay this is going to sound hard so apologies, but if they gave so little concern about ensuring a fitting send off at the time what are they getting worked up about now? I would agree with this, too. It seems odd that no one was there for the scattering of the ashes.
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Post by welshjenni on Aug 4, 2014 22:43:15 GMT
The family is certain he died and they have a death certificate but no one ever followed up on the services they paid for. Saying that the family is 'certain that he died' implies that there may be a possibility that he did not or am I reading it incorrectly? They are querying what happened to the ashes, but were any of them present for the cremation? Were the family estranged? Perhaps your cremations are different from those in the UK. Here if someone is being cremated there is usually a small service at the crematoriam, often preceded by a service at with a church or a funeral home. The ashes are then available for collection some time later. I don't know what happens if they do not get collected.
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Post by finsup on Aug 4, 2014 23:02:39 GMT
This reminds me of when my mom passed. After her cremation, but before she was interred my dad put her urn on the dining room table. I just remember thinking, "Mom would never sit on the table." So I put her in her chair. I recently had a very similar experience when my dad died 6 weeks ago. We picked up his ashes at the funeral home, and when we got back to the house I said to my stepmom, "I think we should put him in his chair." It about broke my heart later that day when my stepmom gave the box a little pat as she went off to bed. <3 He's not still sitting there though--a couple of days later we buried the ashes in the communal grave in a beautiful garden at his church. I'm with the people who are puzzled by the family being up in arms 14 years later, but grief isn't logical.
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Aug 4, 2014 23:19:57 GMT
If I found out my family member didn't get the services I'd paid for, yes, I'd want my money back. Now having said that, if you don't even KNOW if the body got cremated or even taken to the funeral home, how can you be angry now? They obviously didn't care a lick. No announcement, not paperwork, not even a prayer? wtf. Cold hearted assholes.
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