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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 19:11:20 GMT
Wrong. She in no way said or implied that slaves were the sole builders. Talk about tweaking. For someone who doesn't know the history her comment most certainly could have been taken that slaves were the sole builders of the White House. And... SO WHAT??? That does nothing to change her point or message. She wasn't giving a history lesson on the specifics of White House construction. What she said was not wrong, and did not need to be qualified in anyway because it was not germane to the story at hand. She was illustrating what is possible in our nation.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 27, 2016 19:13:48 GMT
Wrong. She in no way said or implied that slaves were the sole builders. Talk about tweaking. For someone who doesn't know the history her comment most certainly could have been taken that slaves were the sole builders of the White House. In the context of her speech, why would it matter? The point of what she said was how far our country has come, the possibilities and opportunities the USA offers, and what a great country this is. Exactly the kind of thing Republicans usually love to hear and often accuse Democrats of not saying/not believing. So a First Lady says it, and Bill O'Reilly picks it apart using historical trivia, and conservative peas defend him? You tell me. In what way does the fact that Michelle Obama said the White House was built by slaves, rather than the White House was built by slaves and other people, diminish the message she was putting out? She didn't lie, she didn't leave out something that would negate her message ... she said the thing that was relevant to her message. It was a good message that everyone likes. But if Bill O'Reilly can minimize Michelle Obama's big message, then by God, he will ... and by God, the conservative peas will defend him.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Jul 27, 2016 19:20:06 GMT
This is very close to the Black Lives Matter/All Lives Matter debate.
Black lives matter.
Slaves built the White House.
Indisputable.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jul 27, 2016 19:21:05 GMT
No one posting on this thread is going to change anyone's mind but is is another instance of when people show you who they are, believe them.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 27, 2016 19:23:16 GMT
See, it's okay to own people if you feed them enough. Om, I just had crazy maniacal laughter in my head. Yes yes yes feed them enough and maybe give them shoes.... THEN it's okay to own a person and even direct their "breeding".
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Post by pierkiss on Jul 27, 2016 19:26:28 GMT
I cannot believe he said that out loud.
Oh wait yes I can. Seems par for the course for him.
Disgusting and dispicable.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 27, 2016 19:29:09 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this?
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smartypants71
Drama Llama
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Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on Jul 27, 2016 19:37:10 GMT
No one posting on this thread is going to change anyone's mind but is is another instance of when people show you who they are, believe them. Exactly. I don't know why I'm so surprised, but I'm just sitting here reading this thread and thinking WTAF, people. Gross.
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Post by lumo on Jul 27, 2016 19:42:45 GMT
DH had not read/heard anything about this, so I read him the quote and asked him what he thought BOR meant. His response? "He thinks slavery is okay."
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Post by lumo on Jul 27, 2016 19:45:31 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this? Come on, Sock....it was OKAY because she was AMUSED. And, you know, they're lazy.
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raindancer
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Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jul 27, 2016 19:47:29 GMT
Wrong. She in no way said or implied that slaves were the sole builders. Talk about tweaking. For someone who doesn't know the history her comment most certainly could have been taken that slaves were the sole builders of the White House. So that's not her problem. Adults who question her comment can look at the history. Talk about lazy.
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lindas
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Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Jul 27, 2016 19:48:51 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this? Based on the 12 she is referring to in her letter then Bill was incorrect.
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pudgygroundhog
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Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jul 27, 2016 19:50:29 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this? I think it's pretty clear Abigail Adams was a lying bitch.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 27, 2016 19:52:22 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this? I think it's pretty clear Abigail Adams was a lying bitch. I mean, obvs. SaveSave
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 27, 2016 19:53:17 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this? Based on the 12 she is referring to in her letter then Bill was incorrect. Yep. Based on those 12. I'm sure the other slaves building the White House had it super cushy. SaveSave
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 27, 2016 19:54:11 GMT
I think those working on the white house probably were well fed compared to and had better lodging than those working on a cotton farm. Nothing in the article screams racist to me. (Not saying he isn't, but I don't feel the article is). Agree. Bill O is a big blowhard, but I do think he was just stating something that was probably true. I didn't get that he was saying anything in support of slavery. ^^^ this. I read it as he was basically just stating a historical fact that plenty of other people had a hand in building the White House as well, not making any sort of a statement about the rightness or wrongness of slavery as an institution. (I'm going to guess that there are more accounts of how / who built the White House than just that one entry by Abigail Adams. And NO, I'm not saying that I support slavery by making that comment...)
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Mystie
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Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Jul 27, 2016 19:56:53 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this? I think it's pretty clear Abigail Adams was a lying bitch. And a feminazi. Save
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pudgygroundhog
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Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jul 27, 2016 19:58:45 GMT
I think it's pretty clear Abigail Adams was a lying bitch. And a feminazi. SaveBut hey, at least she wasn't wearing a frumpy pantsuit!
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Post by jennyap on Jul 27, 2016 19:59:45 GMT
Agree. Bill O is a big blowhard, but I do think he was just stating something that was probably true. I didn't get that he was saying anything in support of slavery. ^^^ this. I read it as he was basically just stating a historical fact that plenty of other people had a hand in building the White House as well, not making any sort of a statement about the rightness or wrongness of slavery as an institution. How is describing the slaves as well fed anything to do with other people being involved in the building?
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 27, 2016 20:00:45 GMT
the media chose to focus on that phrase, I chose to focus on the other ones. <shrug> I don't know what he thinks-- do any of you?? How do any of us know WHAT point Bill O'Reilly was trying to make?? we're ALL just guessing here that it was meant as some sort of political maneuvering... maybe he was only trying to correct a historical fact that Michele Obama didn't state completely?? (but that isn't nearly as controversial, though...) ETA: I'll just leave this here: NPR story "The Public Perception of Crime Exceeds the Reality" I know the interview is talking specifically about crime rates, but I think the sentiment / study data probably holds true for ANY news nowadays-- "And one of the things we know is that news organizations help people form their understanding about the world." I think we all have to take pretty much ANYthing we hear or read nowadays with a HUGE grain of salt, because "news" organizations are SO much more about clicks and ratings than they ever used to be-- and negativity or controversy gets both of those.
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~Lauren~
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Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 20:01:18 GMT
Wrong. She in no way said or implied that slaves were the sole builders. Talk about tweaking. For someone who doesn't know the history her comment most certainly could have been taken that slaves were the sole builders of the White House. Exactly. The comment was meant to give an impression different than the reality. And people are pissed that she was called on it.
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twinsmomfla99
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Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jul 27, 2016 20:01:23 GMT
This is very close to the Black Lives Matter/All Lives Matter debate. Black lives matter. Slaves built the White House. Indisputable. You are correct. Some people tend to insert an unintended "only" in those sentences just so they can feel outraged. Thus, "black lives matters" gets interpreted as "ONLY black lives matter," which of course requires a lot of indignant responses that "ALL lives matter." The original statement is twisted and taken entirely out of context. "The White House was built by slaves" gets interpreted as "the White House was built by only slaves," which leads to the inevitable response of "but free people helped build it, too!" ETA: I am basing my response in part on the comments I saw on social media insisting that Michelle Obama's stately was factually incorrect. Unfortunately, I have several friends on Facebook who are somewhat lacking in the area of reading comprehension. They react this way frequently, but they are family or close friends that really can't be deleted without drama.
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~Lauren~
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Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 20:03:15 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion.
Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion.
Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. The more the word is flung around the more it loses any ability to shock.
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 2:19:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 20:03:33 GMT
For someone who doesn't know the history her comment most certainly could have been taken that slaves were the sole builders of the White House. Exactly. The comment was meant to give an impression different than the reality. And people are pissed that she was called on it. It seems like you haven't read anything that has actually been posted here, because that's not what anyone of us are saying.
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~Lauren~
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Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 20:04:54 GMT
Exactly. The comment was meant to give an impression different than the reality. And people are pissed that she was called on it. It seems like you haven't read anything that has actually been posted here, because that's not what anyone of us are saying. I read every word and I stand by my comments.
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schizo319
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Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Jul 27, 2016 20:05:28 GMT
It was not at all racist or irrelevant. MO made a political speech. I agree with everyone who says it was a good speech. However, people are allowed to analyze it and comment on it, and possibly even criticize it, just like every other political speech. Regardless of how much you love her, this is still true. It's not just true for speeches made by people that you DON'T love. Bill O'Reilly has a "No Spin Zone," segement on his show, and he takes things people say and analyzes it. Michelle stated that she "lives in a house built by slaves." This could have been an overstatement or exaggeration, as statements in speeches sometimes are. Bill actually supported what she said as true. He mentioned that the slaves who worked on the White House were actually treated better than other slaves at the time. A historical fact. None of this makes him a racist, an asshole, a bigot, someone who should be off the air, etc. I found it irrelevant because he DID support what she said as true. Why "analyze" something if you're just going to agree with it. As far as loving MO - I think you're making some assumptions here - I've voted Republican for president in every election for the last 20 years (though I did think she gave a great speech and won't be voting Republican again). I think these talking heads do themselves a disservice nitpicking things like this. It makes it appear that they're grasping at straws for something to criticize - he couldn't catch her in a lie, so he had to make slavery "better" by pointing out how well-treated the WH building slaves were.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 27, 2016 20:05:29 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. I would be interested in reading your commentary on the discrepancy between O'Reilly's claim and the primary source document. SaveSave
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 27, 2016 20:08:06 GMT
And a feminazi. Save But hey, at least she wasn't wearing a frumpy pantsuit! But did you see her hair...?
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~Lauren~
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Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 20:10:41 GMT
I haven't read the primary source document. However, why would his inaccurate statement be the focus rather than Michelle's inaccurate statement?
How many times here have people been jumped on for painting with a broad brush and not using qualifiers in their speech, yet the exact opposite standard is applied to Michelle; in fact, we're told we're ridiculous to require qualifiers.
I'm honestly tired of talking to some people here. There is no logic; no consistency; and no standard of words or behavior that apply across the board. There is a double standard for everything. It's a pointless and useless waste of time to continue in conversations that head that way, like this one seems to. IMO of course.
So, I'll leave the Dem supporters to their outrage. Frankly, it seems to be what they do best. Not all (see I've used a qualifier because if I didn't I'd be lambasted for making a statement about ALL Dems and since I'm not Michelle or a Dem or A Black Lives Matter proponetn, I won't be given a pass on the use of qualifiers) but enough.
Off to enjoy other posts.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 27, 2016 20:11:41 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. I would be interested in reading your commentary on the discrepancy between O'Reilly's claim and the primary source document. SaveSaveso you're saying that this one letter written by Abigail Adams is the only account there is of building the White House?? this letter is the primary source document for what, exactly?
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