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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 27, 2016 20:20:18 GMT
I would be interested in reading your commentary on the discrepancy between O'Reilly's claim and the primary source document. SaveSaveso you're saying that this one letter written by Abigail Adams is the only account there is of building the White House?? this letter is the primary source document for what, exactly? I'm not saying. I'm wondering, is what I'm doing. Bill O'Reilly made a claim that the slaves were well-fed. I guess I wonder where he got that information. Abigail Adams's letter seems like evidence (primary source) that directly contradicts his claim. This journalist wrote that there's no evidence to support that they were, in fact, well-fed. (He wrote a book about the subject.) But there’s no historical evidence either way on the question of how well-fed the slaves were, he said. The slaves were indeed fed pork and bread, but it’s unknown what kinds and how much they were given, he said.
“We know as construction workers they were expected to do hard, grueling, back-breaking work,” Mr. Holland said. “So they had to feed them enough so they could actually get their money’s worth. Were they well fed? That’s not something that, right now, history supports. Many of the slaves lived in a structure described as a barn, Mr. Holland said. There were houses built for workers, but it’s unknown if the slaves got to live in them." - Jesse Holland, via NYT
www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/business/media/bill-oreilly-says-slaves-who-helped-build-white-house-were-well-fed.html?_r=0SaveSave
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 4:45:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 20:21:16 GMT
No, actually her point was, "Look how far we've come". There were words before and words that followed. Many are clearly just uninterested in the point she was making. And that's just a damn shame.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jul 27, 2016 20:23:29 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. The more the word is flung around the more it loses any ability to shock. Are you 5? Good god.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,151
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Jul 27, 2016 20:37:17 GMT
No, actually her point was, "Look how far we've come". There were words before and words that followed. Many are clearly just uninterested in the point she was making. And that's just a damn shame. Many won't remember the point she was trying to make, just the statement that the White House was built by slaves. That's a damn shame.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jul 27, 2016 20:40:37 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. The more the word is flung around the more it loses any ability to shock. Lauren, you spend an inordinate amount of time on this board spewing your anger and vitriol. I don't think that your support of Trump is having the effect that you think it is. It just insures that you drive people away from voting for him. You are so dogmatic that frankly it is hard to give anything that you say much credence. Anything you support is something I could never get behind.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 4:45:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 20:43:46 GMT
No, actually her point was, "Look how far we've come". There were words before and words that followed. Many are clearly just uninterested in the point she was making. And that's just a damn shame. Many won't remember the point she was trying to make, just the statement that the White House was built by slaves. That's a damn shame. Talk about willfully ignoring the forest to focus on one leaf.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 27, 2016 20:46:26 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. The more the word is flung around the more it loses any ability to shock. I just had this exact same conversation with my husband Except it went the other way. He blames Democrats/liberals for EVERYTHING that is wrong with the country. I am tired of both sides blaming each other. I'm tired of hearing Americans talk AT each other instead of listening. I'm tired of us fighting along partisan lines when the real problem is the entire political system we live under. (We do not live in a Democracy, even though we call it that.) I think it is much more beneficial for the average american to focus on Campaign finance reform, and to focus on getting the clowns in the House and Senate OUT. I don't feel like either side truly has the little guy's interests in mind. It's maddening and sad to see people be distracted by partisanship. This whole election has just made me really sad. I love America and am grateful to have been born here. I just think we could be so much stronger if we (Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative, black, white, brown, whatever) banded together and focused on real change. And, since I am dreaming, I'd also like a nice little estate in Malibu
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 27, 2016 20:47:14 GMT
never mind... reality (of everything) is most likely somewhere in the middle of both extremes but the media (and ourselves-- us; all of us, society in general) have gotten so polarized about EVERY thing nowadays, it seems, that discussion isn't "just" discussion anymore, it has to apparently have some sort of agenda behind everything.
it's very tiring.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 4:45:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 20:53:14 GMT
You said it. Utterly shameful.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 27, 2016 20:59:17 GMT
BO'R is a bo're.
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,728
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Jul 27, 2016 21:02:49 GMT
never mind... reality (of everything) is most likely somewhere in the middle of both extremes but the media (and ourselves-- us; all of us, society in general) have gotten so polarized about EVERY thing nowadays, it seems, that discussion isn't "just" discussion anymore, it has to apparently have some sort of agenda behind everything. it's very tiring. Yep, this x1000. The polarization of America. So discouraging.
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Post by lumo on Jul 27, 2016 21:02:55 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. The more the word is flung around the more it loses any ability to shock. Please. You're not interested in having a discussion.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 21:07:05 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. The more the word is flung around the more it loses any ability to shock. Lauren, you spend an inordinate amount of time on this board spewing your anger and vitriol. I don't think that your support of Trump is having the effect that you think it is. It just insures that you drive people away from voting for him. You are so dogmatic that frankly it is hard to give anything that you say much credence. Anything you support is something I could never get behind. Don't even try to pretend that you would have even considered voting for Trump except for me or my comments. Feel free to ignore anything I say. I don't post for your benefit and I've learned that I'm not changing the minds of any Hillary supporters. I'm not looking to do so. A bit of even handedness would be nice but i'm being idealistic when I hope that would ever happen
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 27, 2016 21:07:11 GMT
For someone who doesn't know the history her comment most certainly could have been taken that slaves were the sole builders of the White House. And what a disservice that would be, especially within the context of Mrs. Obama's ancestry and life experience. /s Many won't remember the point she was trying to make, just the statement that the White House was built by slaves. That's a damn shame. [bold mine]
...Yes, 'cause someone needs to speak for the paid workers, both white and free black, who were so cavalierly ignored by Mrs. Obama...especially within the context of her ancestry and life experiences. (Again: /s) Represent!
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 21:10:01 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. The more the word is flung around the more it loses any ability to shock. Please. You're not interested in having a discussion. Not with you. You've got your head so far stuck up Hillary Clinton's ass that you seriously wouldn't hear any discussion anyway
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 27, 2016 21:12:13 GMT
never mind... reality (of everything) is most likely somewhere in the middle of both extremes but the media (and ourselves-- us; all of us, society in general) have gotten so polarized about EVERY thing nowadays, it seems, that discussion isn't "just" discussion anymore, it has to apparently have some sort of agenda behind everything. it's very tiring. We have two threads on the front page that are the perfect example of this. Democrats are picking apart Trumps campaign slogan of Make American Great Again. Putting their own spin on it, picking it apart, inserting their intent and meaning. Republicans are inserting their intent and meaning on the sentence about slaves building the white house. Both sides do it and it is not helping or bringing us together. Even though many people say over and over again that they want us to come together, their actions don't match their words.
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Post by secondlife on Jul 27, 2016 21:17:24 GMT
Please. You're not interested in having a discussion. Not with you. You've got your head so far stuck up Hillary Clinton's ass that you seriously wouldn't hear any discussion anyway Supah Klassy
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 21:19:28 GMT
(Shrug). I own it. At times I get down in the mud
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Jul 27, 2016 21:21:26 GMT
(Shrug). I own it. At times I get down in the mud And yet that never stops you from leaping on your high horse over and over and over again to chastise the rest of us when we get hot under the collar, does it? Save
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,996
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jul 27, 2016 21:21:35 GMT
In the end, its the SSDD; Dems can do no wrong. Period. End of discussion. Republicans are bad. Period. End of discussion. Not sure why Republicans even bother to try to have a discussion. In the end, I find most of the comments here to be made by ....never mind. Really not worth the aggravation or energy. In the end, I'll vote for Trump, hope he wins and shrug my shoulder at claims of racism directed at me or anyone else. The more the word is flung around the more it loses any ability to shock. Lauren, you spend an inordinate amount of time on this board spewing your anger and vitriol. I don't think that your support of Trump is having the effect that you think it is. It just insures that you drive people away from voting for him. You are so dogmatic that frankly it is hard to give anything that you say much credence. Anything you support is something I could never get behind. Okay to be fair to Lauren, she's not the only one who this can be said about. There have been many posts/posters who I've thought the exact same thing of...it has driven me AWAY from even considering voting for Hilary. I'm not on Trump's team, and could have been swayed to vote for Hilary, but everything I have read here has totally turned me off from her. I honestly think between this place and FB, its hard to find anyone to like or root for anymore. It's all just so awful and hateful.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 27, 2016 21:32:56 GMT
Please. You're not interested in having a discussion. Not with you. You've got your head so far stuck up Hillary Clinton's ass that you seriously wouldn't hear any discussion anyway And you are unwilling to see ANYTHING she does as favorable. How is that different? Pot meet kettle
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Post by myshelly on Jul 27, 2016 21:35:56 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this? Well, she's a woman, so I doubt Bill would take her views very seriously.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 27, 2016 21:37:34 GMT
Oh. Here is a primary source. Emphasis mine. dontknowmuch.com/2016/07/a-first-lady-on-who-built-the-white-house/ , & founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-03-02-0799The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of clothing…whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.
—Abigail Smith Adams to Cotton Tufts, 28 November 1800 (Source: National Archives)So, has Bill O'Reilly seen this quote in his historical research? Were the slaves well-fed, as he claims, or half fed and destitute of clothing, as Adams describes firsthand? How do we feel about this? Well, she's a woman, so I doubt Bill would take her views very seriously. You have a point. Lady bits make you stoopid. SaveSave
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 27, 2016 21:39:22 GMT
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Post by lumo on Jul 27, 2016 21:54:57 GMT
Please. You're not interested in having a discussion. Not with you. You've got your head so far stuck up Hillary Clinton's ass that you seriously wouldn't hear any discussion anyway Hahahahahahahahahaha!! Too bad you have no clue what you're talking about.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 4:45:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 22:23:43 GMT
So according to the same people who vilify others for using "hateful" speech, Bill O'Reilly is, among other things:
idiotic absolutely disgusting moron big blowhard pedant bore disgusting and despicable racist asshole
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 22:30:47 GMT
So according to the same people who vilify others for using "hateful" speech, Bill O'Reilly is, among other things: idiotic absolutely disgusting moron big blowhardpedant bore disgusting and despicable racist asshole I think all the politcal commentators are big blowhards on both sides.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 4:45:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 22:39:35 GMT
So according to the same people who vilify others for using "hateful" speech, Bill O'Reilly is, among other things: idiotic absolutely disgusting moron big blowhard pedant bore disgusting and despicable racist asshole "Hate speech is speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits." (from the American Bar Association) Hate speech is not commenting on an individual's specific actions/words, even if said comments are unflattering or unkind.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 22:49:00 GMT
So according to the same people who vilify others for using "hateful" speech, Bill O'Reilly is, among other things: idiotic absolutely disgusting moron big blowhard pedant bore disgusting and despicable racist asshole "Hate speech is speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits." (from the American Bar Association) Hate speech is not commenting on an individual's specific actions/words, even if said comments are unflattering or unkind. she put hateful in quotation marks, I think she meant mean spiritez, not actual Hate Speech toward a group
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 22:51:46 GMT
(Shrug). I own it. At times I get down in the mud And yet that never stops you from leaping on your high horse over and over and over again to chastise the rest of us when we get hot under the collar, does it? SaveNope. Why should it? But when I see you or anyone else acknowledge it in themselves, I get off my high horse. Then again, that doesn't happen too often.
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