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Post by alibama on Aug 11, 2014 14:51:36 GMT
What a horrific tragedy for both of the drivers. I am not a fan of Tony in any way shape or form, never have been, But I don't think he intended to hit the other driver though. I hope I am not wrong.
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basketdiva
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,649
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:09 GMT
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Post by basketdiva on Aug 11, 2014 15:09:46 GMT
This quote sums up the situation in my mind:
You are free to choose but you are not free from the consequence of your choice
The young man made a choice to confront Stewart on the track and Stewart made a choice a choice to be involved in a highly competitive and dangerous sport.
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Aug 11, 2014 15:11:31 GMT
Oh for fuck sake, GA Jenny. You are a fucktard and I don't normally engage in conversations with fucktards. If you can't understand that Tony was talking about rough racing, and threw a helmet at a racecar (which he was allowed to do and Kenseth wasn't hurt or surprised) and not at Kenseth as a pedestrian, and didn't mean he'd hit Kenseth as a pedestrian, then there is no hope for you. You obviously don't understand racing terms and have no clue about the sport whatsoever. You should just go away now.
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Post by bluepoprocks on Aug 11, 2014 15:25:36 GMT
I don't understand how anyone can say it was TS engine revving, his car wasn't the only one there just because the camera is pointed at his car doesn't mean it was his engine. The person with the camera was far away from TS car so it is unlikely that any engine sound was from TS car.
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Deleted
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Oct 9, 2024 0:28:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 15:41:03 GMT
It's always a pleasure, Yubon.
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Deleted
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Oct 9, 2024 0:28:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 16:13:22 GMT
This is from the Tony Stewart Foundation Website. www.tonystewartfoundation.org Mission Statement The mission of the Tony Stewart Foundation is to raise and donate funds to help care for children diagnosed with critical or chronic illness, animals which are at-risk or endangered, and for drivers injured in the sport of motor racing. Qualified Charities that may apply for a TSF Grant must (a) be a non-profit charity operating within the United States and classified as 501(c)(3); (b) provide a copy of its IRS Letter of Determination with EIN number; (c) have been fully operational for a minimum of two (2) years; and (d) fully meet the guidelines & mission statement of The Tony Stewart Foundation. TSF does not provide funding to individuals. A Message From Tony Racing is my profession but I’m also driven to help others through the work of my Foundation. There are so many organizations providing outstanding service and programs and my impulse is to help them all. However, it has been necessary to focus our funding to those programs that most closely match my passions - children, animals and fellow drivers in need of assistance. I’ve been fortunate enough to accomplish my dream of driving race cars for a living. The Tony Stewart Foundation will continue to provide the vehicle for me to give back to others needing a helping hand - a child enduring a serious or life-threatening illness, an abused or homeless animal, an injured race driver and his family. Please take time to explore this site and learn more about the Foundation. Perhaps you are seeking funds for your service organization or you are a Fan wanting to contribute a financial gift to help me fund the many requests received each year. Let’s work together to ensure that the Foundation’s goals and mission to help others are accomplished! Yours truly,
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Post by mzza111 on Aug 11, 2014 16:25:16 GMT
Almost all of the drivers give back through a foundation. They are usually aimed at helping children which is awesome but make no mistake, they are also used for tax breaks.
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Deleted
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Oct 9, 2024 0:28:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 16:27:34 GMT
And OJ Simpson held a Domestic Violence fundraiser at his estate a year after he was acquitted in the murder of his ex wife...who he beat...as documented by photos and numerous 911 calls. It doesn't mean OJ Simpson was a nice man and all around great guy. Even if you believe OJ was innocent of the murder, he beat his ex wife. Tony Stewart has a foundation for kids with cancer. Great. NBC archives...no video but documentation of news story
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Deleted
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Oct 9, 2024 0:28:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 16:28:04 GMT
And OJ Simpson held a Domestic Violence fundraiser at his estate a year after he was acquitted in the murder of his ex wife...who he beat...as documented by photos and numerous 911 calls. It doesn't mean OJ Simpson was a nice man and all around great guy. Even if you believe OJ was innocent of the murder, he beat his ex wife. Tony Stewart has a foundation for kids with cancer. Great. NBC archives...no video but documentation of news story
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Deleted
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Oct 9, 2024 0:28:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 16:52:23 GMT
Wow GaJenny, you are reaching. Are you now saying Tony is the same as OJ? What ever. I am done engaging with you as you are unreasonable. I think even when the investigation is over,you will not be happy unless Tony is found guilty. But you do realize as of right now, it is being called and ACCIDENT.
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Post by christine58 on Aug 11, 2014 16:52:57 GMT
[HASH]kelpea...your new avatar scares me....LOL
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 11, 2014 17:06:56 GMT
Wow GaJenny, you are reaching. Are you now saying Tony is the same as OJ? What ever. I am done engaging with you as you are unreasonable. I think even when the investigation is over,you will not be happy unless Tony is found guilty. But you do realize as of right now, it is being called and ACCIDENT. She's already tried and hung him. Which I think is why most of us have checked out of this thread and she is talking mainly to herself.
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Deleted
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Oct 9, 2024 0:28:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 17:14:16 GMT
Wow GaJenny, you are reaching. Are you now saying Tony is the same as OJ? What ever. I am done engaging with you as you are unreasonable. I think even when the investigation is over,you will not be happy unless Tony is found guilty. But you do realize as of right now, it is being called and ACCIDENT. The point I was trying to make is that even assholes can do charitable work. That's great that Tony Stewart gives back. It doesn't mean he's not a hot headed asshole with anger management issues and an attitude. And clearly, based on articles in Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News, I'm clearly not the only person who has that opinion.
It was an accident. I don't believe that Tony Stewart ran him down on purpose to kill him. But that doesn't mean that Tony Stewart didn't behave in a way that has him free of fault or responsibility for Ward's death. (and Ward should not have been out of his car...I believe that as well)
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Deleted
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Oct 9, 2024 0:28:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 17:15:21 GMT
Wow GaJenny, you are reaching. Are you now saying Tony is the same as OJ? What ever. I am done engaging with you as you are unreasonable. I think even when the investigation is over,you will not be happy unless Tony is found guilty. But you do realize as of right now, it is being called and ACCIDENT. She's already tried and hung him. Which I think is why most of us have checked out of this thread and she is talking mainly to herself. Pretty sure I'm responding to others who reply. How is that talking to myself? LOL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 17:21:23 GMT
CANANDAIGUA, N.Y. (AP) -- The collision was as common as any in racing. Kevin Ward Jr.'s car spun twice like a top, wheels hugging the wall, before it plopped backward on the dimly lit dirt track.
In a sport steeped with bravado, what happened next was another familiar, but treacherous, move: Wearing a black firesuit and black helmet, the 20-year-old Ward unbuckled himself, climbed out of the winged car into the night and defiantly walked onto the track at Canandaigua Motorsports Park.
He gestured, making his disgust evident with the driver who triggered the wreck with a bump: three-time NASCAR champion Tony Stewart.
Ward, a relative unknown compared to NASCAR's noted swashbuckler, was nearly hit by another passing car as he pointed with his right arm in Stewart's direction. As he confronted Stewart in his passing car, disaster struck.
Ward was standing to the right of Stewart's familiar No. 14 car, which seemed to fishtail from the rear and hit him. According to video and witness accounts, Ward's body was sucked underneath the car and hurtled through the air before landing on his back as fans looked on in horror.
Ward was killed. Stewart, considered one of the most proficient drivers in racing, dropped out of Sunday's NASCAR race at Watkins Glen, hours after Saturday's crash. And the sport was left reeling from a tragedy that could have ripple effects from the biggest stock car series down to weeknight dirt track racing.
"There aren't words to describe the sadness I feel about the accident that took the life of Kevin Ward Jr.," Stewart said in a statement.
Authorities questioned the 43-year-old Stewart once on Saturday night and went to Watkins Glen to talk to him again Sunday. They described him as "visibly shaken" after the crash and said he was cooperative.
On Sunday, Ontario County Sheriff Philip Povero said that investigators also don't have any evidence at this point in the investigation to support criminal intent. But he also said that criminal charges have not been ruled out.
The crash raised several questions: Will Ward's death cause drivers to think twice about on-track confrontations? Did Stewart try and send his own message by buzzing Ward, the young driver, only to have his risky move turn fatal? Or did Ward simply take his life into his own hands by stepping into traffic in a black firesuit on a dark track?
The only one who may have that answer is Stewart.
David S. Weinsten, a former state and federal prosecutor in Miami who is now in private practice, said it would be difficult to prove criminal intent.
"I think even with the video, it's going to be tough to prove that this was more than just an accident and that it was even culpable negligence, which he should've known or should've believed that by getting close to this guy, that it was going to cause the accident," he said.
The sheriff renewed a plea for spectators to turn over photos and videos of the crash. Investigators were reconstructing the accident and looking into everything from the dim lighting on a portion of the track to how muddy it was, as well as if Ward's dark firesuit played a role in his death, given the conditions.
Driver Cory Sparks, a friend of Ward's, was a few cars back when Ward was killed.
"The timing was unsafe," he said of Ward's decision to get out of his car to confront Stewart. "When your adrenaline is going, and you're taken out of a race, your emotions flare."
It's often just a part of racing. Drivers from mild-mannered Jeff Gordon to ladylike Danica Patrick have erupted in anger on the track at another driver. The confrontations are part of the sport's allure: Fans love it and cheer wildly from the stands. Stewart, who has a reputation for being a hothead nicknamed "Smoke," once wound up like a pitcher and tossed his helmet like a fastball at Matt Kenseth's windshield.
"I've seen it many times in NASCAR, where a driver will confront the other one, and a lot of times they'll try to speed past them. And that's what it appeared to me as if what Tony Stewart did, he tried to speed past Ward," witness Michael Messerly said. "And the next thing I could see, I didn't see Ward any more. It just seemed like he was suddenly gone."
The crash also raised questions about whether Stewart will continue with his hobby of racing on small tracks on the side of the big-money NASCAR races. He has long defended his participation in racing on tracks like the one where the crash happened, even as accidents and injury have put his day job in NASCAR at risk.
Saturday's crash came almost exactly a year after Stewart suffered a compound fracture to his right leg in a sprint car race in Iowa. The injury cost him the second half of the NASCAR season and sidelined him during NASCAR's important Chase for the Sprint Cup Championship. Stewart only returned to sprint track racing last month.
The crash site is the same track where Stewart was involved in a July 2013 accident that seriously injured a 19-year-old driver. He later took responsibility for his car making contact with another and triggering the 15-car accident that left Alysha Ruggles with a compression fracture in her back.
"Everybody has hobbies," he said last month, adding that "there are a lot of other things I could be doing that are a lot more dangerous and a lot bigger waste of time with my time off do than doing that."
Greg Zipadelli, competition director for Stewart-Haas Racing, said Stewart felt strongly he should not race after the wreck. Regan Smith replaced him in his car.
"We're racing with heavy hearts," Smith said. 253 537713 See Comments
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Aug 11, 2014 18:30:42 GMT
Buhwhahahahah! Yeah right!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 11, 2014 18:39:29 GMT
Another good article from SI...includes the following Stewart’s reputation as a hothead precedes him here. As a driver, he’s as talented as anyone in any category of racing. He may be the best pure driver in history. He’s also had his share of run-ins with officials, the media and other drivers. Had this been Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson or Dale Earnhardt Jr. involved, it would have been so much easier to chalk it up as a tragedy without the additional questions. Put Stewart in this situation and he’s like a batter down 0-2 in the count against Clayton Kershaw. It doesn’t look good. Stewart’s past actions have put him in a spot where his motives will be questioned, fair or not. Before anyone gets too carried away, let’s be clear there’s no way anyone should be thinking Stewart had it in mind to kill Ward or even injure him. No way, no how. But given his history and the way he has reacted to situations throughout his career, it is not at all unreasonable to wonder if he wasn’t thinking of scaring or intimidating Ward. linkSo it's nice to know, that my thoughts on this, are really not that far out of line with those in the sports world. That is ONE person's opinion, NOT some plethora of people in the sports world.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 11, 2014 18:42:28 GMT
Yeah, Stewart has been known to have a bad temper in the past, and I couldn't stand him for a while because of it. I still am not a fan of his. But he isn't the same person he was when he was young. We all mature as we get older and at 43 Tony is more mature than he was Ward's age. Is Tony Stewart dramatically more mature than he was less than 2 yrs ago...Aug 25, 2012? That's the "helmet throwing incident" with Matt Kenseth where Tony Stewart joked "not bad for a 41-year-old who doesn't work out."
From the same story "The three-time NASCAR champion lost his infamous temper..." (so even in 2012 his temper was "infamous")
"It may happen again - I've got a lot of helmets and a lot of races," said Stewart, who was pleased NASCAR has not fined him. "I figured I was going to get some kind of penalty for it, so it's nice to know that's something you can get away with. I just wish we could get a more lengthy list of what we can do and can't do. I think we could make it a lot more entertaining if we knew what we could do."
After these "jokes" he made about the incident, "The defending Sprint Cup Series champion said he wasn't proud of his behavior..." but based on his disregard for what happened, it sure seems like a source of entertainment for him.
SI August 28, 2012
This is the incident that sticks in my mind when I think of Tony Stewart. This is not quite 2 yrs ago...and who knows...he may have had even more recent temper tantrums. I'd bet my life that he's no more mature now at 43 than he was when he was 41.
Edited to add...Tony Stewart also vowed to "run over" Kenseth every chance he got. vows to run over foe
Classy guy...doesn't even have a smidgen of anger management issues.
Keep in mind, Tony Stewart walked in front of a moving car to throw the helmet.
No matter how hard you try GAJenny, Kevin Ward was at fault for his own death. FACT of the entire matter, regardless if any other opinion is that it was KEVIN WARD who got out of his vehicle, charged towards cars that were speeding around the track where an unfortunate accident happened. The video is 100% clear on that !!!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 11, 2014 18:44:40 GMT
So, we can see from the video that Tony's car fishtailed. Is it not true that would be a result from acceleration? If that's the case, and I believe it is, then Tony chose to accelerate instead of maintaining his speed, slowing down or swerving to avoid Ward. None of those actions would have caused his rear tires to fishtail. The sound of acceleration, or lack thereof, on the video really doesn't make a case. You can visually see the car fishtail. It's just as likely video taken from another angle would show the same. I don't believe he killed him intentionally but I do believe that he made a poor decision to accelerate which caused Ward's death. There are criminal and civil penalties for that. The question I continue to ask is why would Tony accelerate if not to scare Ward. I can't come up with another reason. Several things can cause a fishtail, acceleration , throttled in downshifting, trying to stop quickly, swerving. These are not NASCAR types of cars. They run squirrelly over the dirt track.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 11, 2014 18:50:52 GMT
As I suspected, the whole sponsorship issue will be heavily impacted by this tragedy. Nascar has been working on cleaning up their "brand" and this will not go well. linkI'm not sure what you are trying to link to, but it just brings me up higher on page 5 of this thread. I won't watch any video because in addition to it being too upsetting, I would feel 'wrong' doing so. So these are just my thoughts based on what has been in the news, and based on human nature. I don't for a moment believe that Tony Steward intentionally meant to kill or physically injure Kevin Ward in any way. I do think that this tragedy was most likely a result of bad choices that 'both' drivers made while caught up in the heat of competition. I do think that there are choices that both of them could have made that would probably have prevented this tragedy. I don't think that Tony Steward did anything criminal, or that he is a murderer or anything close to that. Neither though does it seem that the young man ran out and jumped in front of Tony's car so that he couldn't possibly avoid him. I would guess that Tony Stewart made some choices that contributed to what happened and does bear some responsibility for the final horrific outcome. I would still characterize this as an accident, but I wouldn't be surprised if like most 'accidents' it could have been prevented at more than one point along the way by either driver. I think it's probably one of those situations where in hindsight they 'both' would/could/should have made different choices. And that they both have some responsibility in what happened. Kevin Ward paid a much higher price for his choices, but I am sure Tony Stewart will be paying for his for the rest of his life. I don't think he's a cold-blooded killer, or a horrible person. I think he's probably just someone who was a bit too comfortable behind the wheel of a car and a bit too confident with his control over it, who was caught up in a not uncommon racing incident, and who never anticipated anything like this happening. And who probably wishes he could go back and do things differently. It is such a sad situation all around, for all involved. I agree with all of this. I think that both parties share in the "blame" of this accident and both made decisions that ultimately ended in someone's death. It reminds me of my first jury duty experience. It was a Civil Wrongful Death case and ultimately we found that the man that died was more responsible for his death than the man that ran him over based on his actions prior to the accident. It was hard to see his family in the courtroom and know that we were basically "discrediting" the man they loved, but it was true based on all the evidence. Keep this in mind front and center: Would Kevin Ward have died If he would not have gotten out of his car in a fit of anger and rage?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 11, 2014 18:56:57 GMT
For someone who claims to not be a Nascar fan or a Tony Stewart hater, you seem to have a pretty strong opinion about his heart, his intentions and his character @gajenny
I don't follow racing of any kind, and truly couldn't even tell you what color Tony Stewart hair is. I don't really care if he's a known hot head or a paragon of charitable giving - nothing in the video shows him intentionally running over that kid - which incidentally a lot of you made it sound like in the initial comments. I think one of the worst things about when a story like this goes viral, is a bunch of people who want to not only speculate on the facts, but the intentions. And then you have to layer in that the personal tragedy of the Ward family is now dragged through this media circus. And yes, their deceased loved ones actions and even character will also be muddied.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,802
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Aug 11, 2014 19:17:02 GMT
So, we can see from the video that Tony's car fishtailed. Is it not true that would be a result from acceleration? If that's the case, and I believe it is, then Tony chose to accelerate instead of maintaining his speed, slowing down or swerving to avoid Ward. None of those actions would have caused his rear tires to fishtail. The sound of acceleration, or lack thereof, on the video really doesn't make a case. You can visually see the car fishtail. It's just as likely video taken from another angle would show the same. I don't believe he killed him intentionally but I do believe that he made a poor decision to accelerate which caused Ward's death. There are criminal and civil penalties for that. The question I continue to ask is why would Tony accelerate if not to scare Ward. I can't come up with another reason. Several things can cause a fishtail, acceleration , throttled in downshifting, trying to stop quickly, swerving. These are not NASCAR types of cars. They run squirrelly over the dirt track. To me, it looks as if the fishtail was caused by Ward being caught under the tire
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Post by mzza111 on Aug 11, 2014 19:28:01 GMT
nothing in the video shows him intentionally running over that kid - which incidentally a lot of you made it sound like in the initial comments. The only person on this thread that has made this statement is the OP who I don't believe has been back. Neither @gajenny or myself has ever said that, in fact, we've both said the opposite. So "a lot of you" is pure bullshit!
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Aug 11, 2014 19:28:31 GMT
Several things can cause a fishtail, acceleration , throttled in downshifting, trying to stop quickly, swerving. These are not NASCAR types of cars. They run squirrelly over the dirt track. To me, it looks as if the fishtail was caused by Ward being caught under the tire I was going to say that too. The fishtailing seems to be the result of hitting Ward, not the reason Ward was hit.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 11, 2014 19:34:28 GMT
Buhwhahahahah! Yeah right! That did bring a smile, huh
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 11, 2014 19:36:04 GMT
Such a terrible tragedy! I'm not one that watches or pays attention to auto racing, as I don't have the attention span to watch cars go round and round for hours. I was surprised to know that it's ok for one car to run into another one. In horse racing, if one horse runs into another, the offender is disqualified. Other sports would consider it a foul if someone purposely runs into another. I guess the running into in auto racing could be compared to the checking and fights of ice hockey. It's sad that a chain of events, Stewart's car hitting Ward's car, then Ward getting out of his car, then Stewart hitting him caused a man to die. Maybe this will be the impetus to change the rule that allows one car to hit another.
My heart goes out to both families.
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Aug 11, 2014 19:41:21 GMT
Such a terrible tragedy! I'm not one that watches or pays attention to auto racing, as I don't have the attention span to watch cars go round and round for hours. I was surprised to know that it's ok for one car to run into another one. In horse racing, if one horse runs into another, the offender is disqualified. Other sports would consider it a foul if someone purposely runs into another. I guess the running into in auto racing could be compared to the checking and fights of ice hockey. It's sad that a chain of events, Stewart's car hitting Ward's car, then Ward getting out of his car, then Stewart hitting him caused a man to die. Maybe this will be the impetus to change the rule that allows one car to hit another. My heart goes out to both families. Uhhhh, yeah. You are kind of clueless here.
The uneducated public and media are running circles around this story. It's nauseating and exhausting.
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Post by cbet on Aug 11, 2014 19:50:31 GMT
The first I saw of this was when I tuned in for yesterday's race. It's an awful tragedy. I'm not a gung-ho NASCAR fan, but I enjoy watching talented drivers on a track doing amazing things with their vehicles - both NASCAR and Indy Car. So I'm not really biased for or against Tony Stewart - I've seen plenty of drivers who don't have a "reputation as a hothead" lose their brains and do stupid things; it's not the kind of sport that you participate in unless you have a huge ego. Some of the drivers are just better at putting on their public face and seeming calm and logical.
That being said, the thing that struck me about ESPN's coverage was the focus on Tony Stewart and why he chose not to drive and would he drive next week, and Tony, Tony, Tony. Kevin Ward Jr.'s name seemed to be barely mentioned. It's the angle that ESPN chose to cover - but it seemed to me that the focus of the reporting was off.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Aug 11, 2014 19:51:27 GMT
It comes down to this. NOBODY knows what Tony was thinking when Ward was on the track. NOBODY knows what Tony saw or didn't see. NOBODY knows whether he fishtailed because of acceleration or to try to avoid hitting Ward head on. NOBODY knows IF he accelerated because that video is sketchy.
NOBODY but TONY STEWART knows what Tony saw or did or didn't do. NOBODY. Not you, not me, not the media, not that video, not the fellow competitors.
The only facts are: Kevin Ward should not have left his car. Kevin Ward lost his temper and lost his life. Kevin Ward is a victim, but so is Tony. Fact is, someone died and nothing will bring him back. Not money, not a charge, not a lynch mob.
Tony must be devastated (and is according to statements made) and I pray that he and the Ward family both can find some peace.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 11, 2014 20:07:54 GMT
To me, it looks as if the fishtail was caused by Ward being caught under the tire I was going to say that too. The fishtailing seems to be the result of hitting Ward, not the reason Ward was hit. I too have heard the same thing through the grapevine!
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