Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 15:28:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 0:54:57 GMT
I think it was a case of uneducated whites showing up in droves because they had someone they could relate to...
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Nov 10, 2016 1:03:45 GMT
I think it was a case of uneducated whites showing up in droves because they had someone they could relate to... He marketed himself in a way that appealed to uneducated working class whites. As a laymen. A 'normal' person.
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peasquared
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,672
Jul 6, 2014 23:59:59 GMT
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Post by peasquared on Nov 10, 2016 1:06:52 GMT
I don't understand why the question was asked, if an honest answer is not welcome.
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Post by heather on Nov 10, 2016 1:11:58 GMT
I know I'm going to regret posting this....but here it goes.
As someone who was repeatedly sexually assaulted as a young child, hearing Trump speak as he has...those ugly words that keep getting repeated...
I can't help but to feel that all those that voted for him...my family, my friends, my neighbors, my fellow Americans...all of you who voted for him...think what happened to me is ok.
Logically, rationally I know that not to be the case. But emotions are not rational. I feel like I've been literally punched in my gut. I am hurting.
I truly don't know how I will handle the next 4 years of presidency. He...through his own words...is a trigger for me. I'm obviously not handling it well right now.
My husband has been wonderful and is providing distractions for me, keeping me away from the news, and even cancelled Thanksgiving plans so I won't have to handle the gloating of family who are so ready to rub it on. He thinks I'm playing Best Fiends on my phone right now. Lol.
So for those of who are gleeful right now, please understand that I'm not seeing this election as a game or saddened because 'my side' lost...but it's a very personal and emotional issue.
So congrats?!? On your win. And now proceed to tell me how wrong my feelings are or how Hillary is actually worse. You guys just chose a sexual predator to be president. You can't do more damage than that.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,077
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Nov 10, 2016 1:21:14 GMT
I know I'm going to regret posting this....but here it goes. As someone who was repeatedly sexually assaulted as a young child, hearing Trump speak as he has...those ugly words that keep getting repeated... I can't help but to feel that all those that voted for him...my family, my friends, my neighbors, my fellow Americans...all of you who voted for him...think what happened to me is ok. Logically, rationally I know that not to be the case. But emotions are not rational. I feel like I've been literally punched in my gut. I am hurting. I truly don't know how I will handle the next 4 years of presidency. He...through his own words...is a trigger for me. I'm obviously not handling it well right now. My husband has been wonderful and is providing distractions for me, keeping me away from the news, and even cancelled Thanksgiving plans so I won't have to handle the gloating of family who are so ready to rub it on. He thinks I'm playing Best Fiends on my phone right now. Lol. So for those of who are gleeful right now, please understand that I'm not seeing this election as a game or saddened because 'my side' lost...but it's a very personal and emotional issue. So congrats?!? On your win. And now proceed to tell me how wrong my feelings are or how Hillary is actually worse. You guys just chose a sexual predator to be president. You can't do more damage than that. Yes. I'm so sorry. This is where I am as well. As someone who started having her p*ssy grabbed at the age of 3, I cannot wrap my head around the fact half of the United States just made a sexual predator the President. It is devastating beyond belief.
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Nov 10, 2016 1:22:29 GMT
I refuse to read all 8 pages and am just answering the OP.
Yes. I really feel that way.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Nov 10, 2016 1:28:23 GMT
He marketed himself in a way that appealed to uneducated working class whites. As a laymen. A 'normal' person. Actually it was the college educated whites who elected Trump. The reality is that six in 10 Americans do not have a college degree, and they elected Donald Trump. College-educated people didn’t just fail to see this coming — they have struggled to display even a rudimentary understanding of the world views of those who voted for Trump. This is an indictment of the monolithic, insulated political culture in the vast majority our colleges and universities. Interesting perspective: www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-college-educated-americans-are-out-of-touch/
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Post by freecharlie on Nov 10, 2016 1:34:06 GMT
I think a very good majority of the trump voters are at least one, if not more or the things you listed.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 10, 2016 1:34:35 GMT
He marketed himself in a way that appealed to uneducated working class whites. As a laymen. A 'normal' person. Actually it was the college educated whites who elected Trump. The reality is that six in 10 Americans do not have a college degree, and they elected Donald Trump. College-educated people didn’t just fail to see this coming — they have struggled to display even a rudimentary understanding of the world views of those who voted for Trump. This is an indictment of the monolithic, insulated political culture in the vast majority our colleges and universities. Interesting perspective: www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-college-educated-americans-are-out-of-touch/Can we say that many, not all, college-educated voters went for him, just to clarify? Yikes. Many college-educated voters went another way. Thanks.
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Nov 10, 2016 1:36:39 GMT
Actually it was the college educated whites who elected Trump. The reality is that six in 10 Americans do not have a college degree, and they elected Donald Trump. College-educated people didn’t just fail to see this coming — they have struggled to display even a rudimentary understanding of the world views of those who voted for Trump. This is an indictment of the monolithic, insulated political culture in the vast majority our colleges and universities. Interesting perspective: www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-college-educated-americans-are-out-of-touch/Can we say that many, not all, college-educated voters went for him, just to clarify? Yikes. Many college-educated voters went another way. Thanks. I am one of the ones that went the other way.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Nov 10, 2016 1:39:12 GMT
Actually it was the college educated whites who elected Trump. The reality is that six in 10 Americans do not have a college degree, and they elected Donald Trump. College-educated people didn’t just fail to see this coming — they have struggled to display even a rudimentary understanding of the world views of those who voted for Trump. This is an indictment of the monolithic, insulated political culture in the vast majority our colleges and universities. Interesting perspective: www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-college-educated-americans-are-out-of-touch/Can we say that many, not all, college-educated voters went for him, just to clarify? Yikes. Many college-educated voters went another way. Thanks. Yes sorry... but the article discusses the disconnect between the white college educated voters and Trump voters... not that they specifically voted for him
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Post by peano on Nov 10, 2016 1:41:12 GMT
I know I'm going to regret posting this....but here it goes. As someone who was repeatedly sexually assaulted as a young child, hearing Trump speak as he has...those ugly words that keep getting repeated... I can't help but to feel that all those that voted for him...my family, my friends, my neighbors, my fellow Americans...all of you who voted for him...think what happened to me is ok. Logically, rationally I know that not to be the case. But emotions are not rational. I feel like I've been literally punched in my gut. I am hurting. I truly don't know how I will handle the next 4 years of presidency. He...through his own words...is a trigger for me. I'm obviously not handling it well right now. My husband has been wonderful and is providing distractions for me, keeping me away from the news, and even cancelled Thanksgiving plans so I won't have to handle the gloating of family who are so ready to rub it on. He thinks I'm playing Best Fiends on my phone right now. Lol. So for those of who are gleeful right now, please understand that I'm not seeing this election as a game or saddened because 'my side' lost...but it's a very personal and emotional issue. So congrats?!? On your win. And now proceed to tell me how wrong my feelings are or how Hillary is actually worse. You guys just chose a sexual predator to be president. You can't do more damage than that. Well, you can add me to the list of sexy three-year-olds who were molested by middle aged white men. My nephew has two daughters and he voted for that piece of excrement.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 10, 2016 1:42:38 GMT
Actually it was the college educated whites who elected Trump. The reality is that six in 10 Americans do not have a college degree, and they elected Donald Trump. College-educated people didn’t just fail to see this coming — they have struggled to display even a rudimentary understanding of the world views of those who voted for Trump. This is an indictment of the monolithic, insulated political culture in the vast majority our colleges and universities. Interesting perspective: www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-college-educated-americans-are-out-of-touch/Can we say that many, not all, college-educated voters went for him, just to clarify? Yikes. Many college-educated voters went another way. Thanks. I posted the stat on another thread and am now on my phone so don't have the actual number - but a clear majority of white, college educated men voted for him (56ish) and something like 45% of college educated women - significant percentages.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 10, 2016 1:50:28 GMT
No effin way did Bernie supporters go Trump. Some probably went 3rd party, but Berners are so vastly different than Trump supporters that this would be nearly impossible. You forget, there are a lot of disenfranchised Independents (who were fervent Sanders supporters) who know that a vote for Trump is also a vote against the corporates, the banks, the elites, wall street, career politicians...in a word, the Establishment. You forget there are "Burn it down" Berners and you can bet they voted for Trump - not because they agreed with him, but because they were pissed off enough to want to take down the system that screwed them. But this isn't true at all and anyone researched who Trump is looking at for his Cabinet would have seen career politicians (Christie, Gingrich, Giuliani, Sessions, Scott, Palin, Perry, Browback, etc.), Wall Street (Mnuchin 17 years at Goldman Sachs and now CEO & Chairman Dune Financial Mgmt) and corporations (Forrest Lucas founder of Lucas Oil, and Harold Hamm, Continental Resources CEO). There is talk he will put Myron Ebell, a climate skeptic currently running his EPA transition team, in charge of the EPA. SaveSaveSaveSave
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 10, 2016 2:13:39 GMT
Tell me that the Republicans didn't feel the same towards the HILLARY supporters. They abused them just as much if not worse.
People have ears. They heard Trump. His supporters screamed his message to the heavens and back. All I've been reading is hateful comments, racist (build the wall deport them..) hatefulness and verbal diarrhea over same sex marriage--that some how it's forcing people to do something--NO! It's only been about equality. From what I'm reading I think that there is going to be a big divide, trump supporters are not interested in what us retarded, stupid, ignorant, gay loving, inclusive, uneducated, bleeding heart libtards think, say, do, or need. I am a Republican, and I can say, without a doubt, I never felt the same way towards Hillary supporters. And I certainly never abused them for their beliefs. And FWIW, I have a gay brother that I love, support and respect. I love, support and respect his partner. In fact, they are where my kids go if I should die before they are 18. I care what happens to them and their rights. I support their marriage. Just because I didn't support Hillary does not negate the support and love I have for them. If you voted Trump, how do you look at your brother and know that you voted for someone who is going to repeal same sex marriages, Pence calling gays the reason for " societal downfall", made it a crime to apply for marriage licenses and supports conversion therapy.? The platform only believes in and will recognize one man/woman family's and will allow businesses to freely discriminate with gay couples. I don't think I would be able to look my LBGTQ family or friends in the eye EVER again.
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Post by mom on Nov 10, 2016 2:24:15 GMT
I am a Republican, and I can say, without a doubt, I never felt the same way towards Hillary supporters. And I certainly never abused them for their beliefs. And FWIW, I have a gay brother that I love, support and respect. I love, support and respect his partner. In fact, they are where my kids go if I should die before they are 18. I care what happens to them and their rights. I support their marriage. Just because I didn't support Hillary does not negate the support and love I have for them. If you voted Trump, how do you look at your brother and know that you voted for someone who is going to repeal same sex marriages, Pence calling gays the reason for " societal downfall", made it a crime to apply for marriage licenses and supports conversion therapy.? The platform only believes in and will recognize one man/woman family's and will allow businesses to freely discriminate with gay couples. I don't think I would be able to look my LBGTQ family or friends in the eye EVER again. I didn't vote for Trump, so I have no issues looking at my brother.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 15:28:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 2:30:38 GMT
He marketed himself in a way that appealed to uneducated working class whites. As a laymen. A 'normal' person. So, if you are a person with white skin who didn't go to college and have a blue collar job, you are what? Not worthy of having a voice? Are a deplorable, despicable human being? Wow. So much for the liberal inclusiveness, I guess. Liberal inclusiveness only applies if you NOT white, average and working class. Got it. L
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Post by txdancermom on Nov 10, 2016 2:35:22 GMT
Do I think that every one of his supporters is racist? I work with 3 well educated women and they all supported him, one is mildly racist, the other 2 are not. I don't understand why they voted for him. However, I think he has awakened a racist sentiment that is present in a lot of people. I also saw the sentiment today that American is more sexist than racist - and we are not just a little bit racist but a lot.
I do agree that there needs to be changes, but I didn't see him being the one to be able to make changes. And I think he is very prejudiced. He has a long way to go to prove to me that he is president for "all americans"
My issue today is, I was brought up to respect people in authority, especially the President. his actions and words, to date, are not something I can respect. I am trying to wrap my head around how I can respect the Office of President, yet not the man who is in the office. It is going to take some time for me to resolve that in my head.
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Nov 10, 2016 2:44:32 GMT
Yes, yes I do. Because nothing I have read or heard has shown me otherwise. I've heard so many racist and sexist comments that I can't even get to the homophobia. Hate is hate. So whichever you need me to feel to answer your question... yes. I have not yet met a Trump supporter who did not have some hate in their heart. You might not call it that, you might call it concern but as others have pointed out when you point that concern towards certain groups, well, that's hate. Seriously - hating Muslims?? In America? Where we have freedom of religion? And you were okay with that and didn't make it stop and you want me to believe that you are going to "make America great again?" Nope.
That's not even touching the sexism. That you are okay with? As a mother of daughters? Daughters in the military?!?! WHAT? Do you know how much that pains me? When we have commands who condone the culture we KNOW what happens (Tailhook anybody??) So your daughter's commander in chief said WHAT? And you can't think how that makes you look since you voted for him?
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Nov 10, 2016 2:46:07 GMT
He marketed himself in a way that appealed to uneducated working class whites. As a laymen. A 'normal' person. So, if you are a person with white skin who didn't go to college and have a blue collar job, you are what? Not worthy of having a voice? Are a deplorable, despicable human being? Wow. So much for the liberal inclusiveness, I guess. Liberal inclusiveness only applies if you NOT white, average and working class. Got it. L I am white. And when all you've had your entire history is a voice and that puts others down in order to lift whites up, that's a major problem. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a voice, I'm saying their voice shouldn't be screaming 'repeal gay rights, kick out the immigrants, women can't make decisions for their own bodies, muslims are unilaterally bad, mexicans are all criminals, blacks all live in the inner cities and only want handouts.' That is the social platform of Republicans. That is what is wrong with America. When your voice is screaming to take away rights from other groups WHO ARE DOING YOU ABSOLUTELY NO HARM other than you don't like it and your book decides it's bad, your voice is tainted and should NOT be the voice people hear. Minority platforms aren't 'take away rights from whites' like so many whites want to do to minority groups, they are fighting for equality. When one side is screaming, 'we want to suppress you because we can' and the other side is screaming, 'we just want to be treated as equals', I can never support that group and it hurts me to my core that anyone in this nation can not only do that, but do so with pride and self righteousness and it also makes me firmer in my stance and more hardened against 'the other side.'
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Post by kibble on Nov 10, 2016 2:49:08 GMT
He marketed himself in a way that appealed to uneducated working class whites. As a laymen. A 'normal' person. Didn't he even say he liked the poorly educated?
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Nov 10, 2016 3:12:53 GMT
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 15:28:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 3:51:39 GMT
So, if you are a person with white skin who didn't go to college and have a blue collar job, you are what? Not worthy of having a voice? Are a deplorable, despicable human being? Wow. So much for the liberal inclusiveness, I guess. Liberal inclusiveness only applies if you NOT white, average and working class. Got it. L I am white. And when all you've had your entire history is a voice and that puts others down in order to lift whites up, that's a major problem. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a voice, I'm saying their voice shouldn't be screaming 'repeal gay rights, kick out the immigrants, women can't make decisions for their own bodies, muslims are unilaterally bad, mexicans are all criminals, blacks all live in the inner cities and only want handouts.' That is the social platform of Republicans. That is what is wrong with America. When your voice is screaming to take away rights from other groups WHO ARE DOING YOU ABSOLUTELY NO HARM other than you don't like it and your book decides it's bad, your voice is tainted and should NOT be the voice people hear. Minority platforms aren't 'take away rights from whites' like so many whites want to do to minority groups, they are fighting for equality. When one side is screaming, 'we want to suppress you because we can' and the other side is screaming, 'we just want to be treated as equals', I can never support that group and it hurts me to my core that anyone in this nation can not only do that, but do so with pride and self righteousness and it also makes me firmer in my stance and more hardened against 'the other side.' I do understand your feelings, but I ask that you try to understand where the middle class is coming from if you can. We've been squeezed and squeezed until we honestly worry about becoming extinct. WE feel suppressed and villainized and all we want is to be - guess what - treated equally, too. Not as a scapegoat and not as the wallet government gets to reach their hands into until we have nothing left. When the middle class dimishes, who is going to finance all the government overspending? Welfare was supposed to cure poverty, but more are in poverty than ever before. It is not working. I fully support helping people in need, but it's become a generational way of life for so many and that saddens me more than anything. We need jobs and we need to stop looking down on the hardworking, 'uneducated' people who were and are the backbone of this great country. L
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,247
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Nov 10, 2016 3:52:10 GMT
I spent a good bit of my school day answering questions from my junior high students. Many of them are African-American or Latino or immigrants. Some of their questions were about the process and how things work and just about what happened and will happen now and later. Other questions came from fear - wondering if they or their parents might be deported and how that would happen. Some tried to joke about it but there was underlying fear or apprehension. Some don't know if their family are all legal immigrants. ALL of them were shocked, dismayed and worried that Trump won.
Talking and explaining things helped me to work through some of my emotions about this election and outcome. It's my birthday today and I spent most of it feeling pretty depressed, very much shocked (as in, this must be some really bad joke, right?), and yes, even appalled. One of the other teachers made a comment at lunch that resonated with me - that she was most bothered by the fact that so many of our fellow Americans actually voted for this man.
I have felt for some time that the United States is very much divided, and pretty evenly split. Both halves have their own beliefs and approaches to things. Within each half there are different groups. Some people want their religious beliefs to dictate laws; others believe that another's religious teaching shouldn't be used to dictate what they can or cannot do. Some want all people to have the same rights, like marriage; others disagree and want those rights rolled back. Some believe that working for the collective good helps us all (a rising tide lifts all boats); and others want to ensure that they protect all that they have and think people should all look out for themselves. Some people think the country is headed in the wrong direction and want change, and others believe the the past was not as great as some purport it to have been and think that "Make America Great Again" is to return to life being good if you are a white middle-aged man. And many people are somewhere in the middle.
As for this presidential campaign and election? I think the media did much to support Trump just because they gave him so much coverage early on. He got enormous amounts of free publicity that put him front and center in the view of voters. Personally, I firmly believe that he is an extreme narcissist and really only focused on himself. I don't believe he has the temperament or the background to be president. I don't think he has any real interest in governing on a daily basis (and Pence is more scary even than Trump to those of use who believe in equal rights and have LGBTQ friends and family), and does not have the intellectual curiosity or rigor to learn what he needs. He'll deal with that by bringing in "establishment" people - like Rudy Giuliani, which seems like a contradiction of what he ran on.
As for his character? He showed us over and over that he has no problem looking like a racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic, bigoted, nasty bully who mocks people and brags about sexual assaults. I do think he made it seem okay to say horrible things about others. That he encouraged his followers to chant things like "lock her up" and has threatened to jail his opponent - that is something dictators do, not candidates in a democracy. It disgusts me. Is everyone who voted for him all of those things? NO, and there is a difference between calling someone any of those words and questioning how someone can vote for a man who IS all of those things. Whether acceptance or outright approval or agreement, many of us cannot understand how anyone can choose to vote for this man. His words and actions are just so appalling.
But, also, yes, some of his supporters ARE racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. And, those people feel they are more free to state those feelings openly. That scares me.
I get that some people supported him because they want change and felt he was the one who could do that. But I'm not sure that people really know what they are going to get. He's already talking differently than when he was campaigning. How is he going to govern? And yes, they had to accept or agree with or ignore the awful character traits he has shown in order to vote for him. To me those character traits are so bad that I could never vote for him. That so many could absolutely baffles me and yes, depresses me too. I look at those I know who can overlook those traits in a different way now, and yes, I may have lost some respect for those who shrug off all his disgusting words and actions.
For those who say that the majority has spoken - not exactly right. A very slim majority voted for Clinton, not Trump. And many of us who voted for her are now grieving and worrying - about our LGBTQ friends and family, about our loved ones who need to buy health insurance on the ACA exchange, about our students whose families may or may not be legal immigrants, about the disabled people who feel demeaned and marginalized by Trump and his supporters, about boys and men and girls who are learning that sexual assault can be bragged about in crude terms and you can then be elected president. My feelings? I'm horrified that so many echo him and that so many tacitly accept it in order to get the changes they think he'll bring.
Do I want him to fail as president? No, because that would hurt all of us, the ones who are focused on their individual needs and families and those who want the country to work for the collective good of all of us. But I won't be unhappy if in two years there is a backlash against the Republicans and Trump at the midterm elections.
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,600
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Nov 10, 2016 4:08:51 GMT
Do Clinton supporters really think all Trump supporters are racist, uncaring, ignorant and the plethora of other hateful comments that has been stated about Trump supporters Technically I'm not a "Clinton supporter" because I'm not American and I don't vote, so I don't have to choose a side. That being said, yes, if you can vote for someone who has publically time and time again displayed those traits and beliefs such as racism, sexism, misogyny, who is a bully, who demeans women when he doesn't agree with them and time and time again reduces their value to simply how they look...then you must share/approve of those opinions. For heaven's sake this man said it's perfectly OK to grab "women by the pussy...and they let you do it if you are famous" if that doesn't repel you enough not to vote for this piece of crap then yes, you'll get tarred with the same brush as far as I'm concerned. You chose to associate with/support a vile man like this, so you need to wear the negativity from others that comes with your choice. I honestly cannot get my head around any woman voting for him. Exactly.
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Post by Merge on Nov 10, 2016 4:11:36 GMT
I am white. And when all you've had your entire history is a voice and that puts others down in order to lift whites up, that's a major problem. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a voice, I'm saying their voice shouldn't be screaming 'repeal gay rights, kick out the immigrants, women can't make decisions for their own bodies, muslims are unilaterally bad, mexicans are all criminals, blacks all live in the inner cities and only want handouts.' That is the social platform of Republicans. That is what is wrong with America. When your voice is screaming to take away rights from other groups WHO ARE DOING YOU ABSOLUTELY NO HARM other than you don't like it and your book decides it's bad, your voice is tainted and should NOT be the voice people hear. Minority platforms aren't 'take away rights from whites' like so many whites want to do to minority groups, they are fighting for equality. When one side is screaming, 'we want to suppress you because we can' and the other side is screaming, 'we just want to be treated as equals', I can never support that group and it hurts me to my core that anyone in this nation can not only do that, but do so with pride and self righteousness and it also makes me firmer in my stance and more hardened against 'the other side.' I do understand your feelings, but I ask that you try to understand where the middle class is coming from if you can. We've been squeezed and squeezed until we honestly worry about becoming extinct. WE feel suppressed and villainized and all we want is to be - guess what - treated equally, too. Not as a scapegoat and not as the wallet government gets to reach their hands into until we have nothing left. When the middle class diminishes, who is going to finance all the government overspending? Welfare was supposed to cure poverty, but more are in poverty than ever before. It is not working. That's one of those truisms that isn't: Poverty rate over timeIt's particularly interesting to note the extreme growth in the poverty rate during the Bush administration, when he was supposedly busy cutting taxes for the middle class, and in the first couple of years of the Obama administration when those tax cuts were still in effect. The causes of generational poverty are so much more complex than whether or not people are receiving welfare. And the fact that American manufacturing jobs have been phased out is not the fault of either party, but rather a function of normal economic changes over time. It's the free market at work, right? That's supposed to be a good thing. Our middle class is not suppressed and villainized. It has gotten a little too comfortable in thinking that certain kinds of jobs, like manufacturing or mining, will always be there, and suffers a bit in thinking that it is above certain kinds of jobs (I'm thinking here of the trades like plumbing or electrical work). People need re-training, some people may need re-location, and we as a country may need an attitude re-adjustment - but there is no one outside the middle class suppressing it.
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Nov 10, 2016 4:29:17 GMT
I am white. And when all you've had your entire history is a voice and that puts others down in order to lift whites up, that's a major problem. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a voice, I'm saying their voice shouldn't be screaming 'repeal gay rights, kick out the immigrants, women can't make decisions for their own bodies, muslims are unilaterally bad, mexicans are all criminals, blacks all live in the inner cities and only want handouts.' That is the social platform of Republicans. That is what is wrong with America. When your voice is screaming to take away rights from other groups WHO ARE DOING YOU ABSOLUTELY NO HARM other than you don't like it and your book decides it's bad, your voice is tainted and should NOT be the voice people hear. Minority platforms aren't 'take away rights from whites' like so many whites want to do to minority groups, they are fighting for equality. When one side is screaming, 'we want to suppress you because we can' and the other side is screaming, 'we just want to be treated as equals', I can never support that group and it hurts me to my core that anyone in this nation can not only do that, but do so with pride and self righteousness and it also makes me firmer in my stance and more hardened against 'the other side.' I do understand your feelings, but I ask that you try to understand where the middle class is coming from if you can. We've been squeezed and squeezed until we honestly worry about becoming extinct. WE feel suppressed and villainized and all we want is to be - guess what - treated equally, too. Not as a scapegoat and not as the wallet government gets to reach their hands into until we have nothing left. When the middle class dimishes, who is going to finance all the government overspending? Welfare was supposed to cure poverty, but more are in poverty than ever before. It is not working. I fully support helping people in need, but it's become a generational way of life for so many and that saddens me more than anything. We need jobs and we need to stop looking down on the hardworking, 'uneducated' people who were and are the backbone of this great country. L That bolded part is not about spending...that bolded part is about the Republican desire to make abortion illegal and a criminal act and to overturn gay rights, THAT is why I will never be on the Republican side. The Republican platform is wanting to take away things that do not cause conservatives any direct harm with them being in place. You can disagree because of religion or morality all you want, but at the end of the day, there is ZERO harm caused by gays having the same liberties straights do and there is more harm done than not in refusing women to choose what goes on in their own bodies (I understand the idea of life being precious, but I believe that life already here is more important than potential life). Then Republicans want to reform programs designed to help the lower class to give them less, but at the same time want to force them to carry babies that will only perpetuate the cycle of being stuck in a hole that is hard to get out of and with fewer resources available to them on top of it. The push for quantity of life instead of quality of life is what it boils down to. The only thing that liberals want to "take away" is easy access to guns with gun reform and conservatives lose their freaking minds over it. That is something that can actually SAVE LIVES in reform by progressively making it harder to get your hands on a gun if you're a criminal...just because it won't have a 180 turnaround the day after reform starts doesn't mean that in the long run, it wouldn't make a positive difference. But rather than consider the existing lives that it would save, conservatives scream 'abortion is murder' and want to take ownership over someone else's body and decisions regarding their body. At the end of the day, in regards to money...Trump is the rich elite just like the career politicians. He's not going to funnel money back down to the working class, he's going to continue to take more and more and we're going to have to continue to do with less and less until society can't handle it anymore and our country fails or we see a true non career politician who is willing to make the sacrifices necessary at the top so the middle class doesn't break off. Big business and the elite won't have anything left to take if the middle class and then the entire country fails. His priority is number one, as is the elite in general. Why do more for everyone else when you can keep taking and benefiting off of the backs of everyone else?? He can't even be trusted to pay his own taxes, you think he's going to aim to increase taxes on people like himself who benefit from this system? Absolutely not. No mainstream candidate is EVER going to change that. Not Trump, not Hillary, not any career politician. As it is right now, it would take a minimum wage full time worker more than 2 months to earn what a leading CEO makes in an hour. No way is any one human being's single hour of 'work' worth more than months of someone else's. They have it made and our political system with tax breaks for the wealthy, kick backs, lobbyists doing the dirty work for big business, it being treason to fight back against it with efforts to overthrow it, THAT is what is set up against us and politicians like Clinton and the elite like Trump will never bring forth the necessary change. I have no current hope to change that with any election in the near future, but I can feel like my vote toward social progress and social maintenance in terms of gay rights and women's rights to make decisions regarding their own body means something.
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Nov 10, 2016 4:33:25 GMT
I spent a good bit of my school day answering questions from my junior high students. Many of them are African-American or Latino or immigrants. Some of their questions were about the process and how things work and just about what happened and will happen now and later. Other questions came from fear - wondering if they or their parents might be deported and how that would happen. Some tried to joke about it but there was underlying fear or apprehension. Some don't know if their family are all legal immigrants. ALL of them were shocked, dismayed and worried that Trump won. Talking and explaining things helped me to work through some of my emotions about this election and outcome. It's my birthday today and I spent most of it feeling pretty depressed, very much shocked (as in, this must be some really bad joke, right?), and yes, even appalled. One of the other teachers made a comment at lunch that resonated with me - that she was most bothered by the fact that so many of our fellow Americans actually voted for this man. I have felt for some time that the United States is very much divided, and pretty evenly split. Both halves have their own beliefs and approaches to things. Within each half there are different groups. Some people want their religious beliefs to dictate laws; others believe that another's religious teaching shouldn't be used to dictate what they can or cannot do. Some want all people to have the same rights, like marriage; others disagree and want those rights rolled back. Some believe that working for the collective good helps us all (a rising tide lifts all boats); and others want to ensure that they protect all that they have and think people should all look out for themselves. Some people think the country is headed in the wrong direction and want change, and others believe the the past was not as great as some purport it to have been and think that "Make America Great Again" is to return to life being good if you are a white middle-aged man. And many people are somewhere in the middle. As for this presidential campaign and election? I think the media did much to support Trump just because they gave him so much coverage early on. He got enormous amounts of free publicity that put him front and center in the view of voters. Personally, I firmly believe that he is an extreme narcissist and really only focused on himself. I don't believe he has the temperament or the background to be president. I don't think he has any real interest in governing on a daily basis (and Pence is more scary even than Trump to those of use who believe in equal rights and have LGBTQ friends and family), and does not have the intellectual curiosity or rigor to learn what he needs. He'll deal with that by bringing in "establishment" people - like Rudy Giuliani, which seems like a contradiction of what he ran on. As for his character? He showed us over and over that he has no problem looking like a racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic, bigoted, nasty bully who mocks people and brags about sexual assaults. I do think he made it seem okay to say horrible things about others. That he encouraged his followers to chant things like "lock her up" and has threatened to jail his opponent - that is something dictators do, not candidates in a democracy. It disgusts me. Is everyone who voted for him all of those things? NO, and there is a difference between calling someone any of those words and questioning how someone can vote for a man who IS all of those things. Whether acceptance or outright approval or agreement, many of us cannot understand how anyone can choose to vote for this man. His words and actions are just so appalling. But, also, yes, some of his supporters ARE racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. And, those people feel they are more free to state those feelings openly. That scares me. I get that some people supported him because they want change and felt he was the one who could do that. But I'm not sure that people really know what they are going to get. He's already talking differently than when he was campaigning. How is he going to govern? And yes, they had to accept or agree with or ignore the awful character traits he has shown in order to vote for him. To me those character traits are so bad that I could never vote for him. That so many could absolutely baffles me and yes, depresses me too. I look at those I know who can overlook those traits in a different way now, and yes, I may have lost some respect for those who shrug off all his disgusting words and actions. For those who say that the majority has spoken - not exactly right. A very slim majority voted for Clinton, not Trump. And many of us who voted for her are now grieving and worrying - about our LGBTQ friends and family, about our loved ones who need to buy health insurance on the ACA exchange, about our students whose families may or may not be legal immigrants, about the disabled people who feel demeaned and marginalized by Trump and his supporters, about boys and men and girls who are learning that sexual assault can be bragged about in crude terms and you can then be elected president. My feelings? I'm horrified that so many echo him and that so many tacitly accept it in order to get the changes they think he'll bring. Do I want him to fail as president? No, because that would hurt all of us, the ones who are focused on their individual needs and families and those who want the country to work for the collective good of all of us. But I won't be unhappy if in two years there is a backlash against the Republicans and Trump at the midterm elections. I love you.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 15:28:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 4:43:07 GMT
I do understand your feelings, but I ask that you try to understand where the middle class is coming from if you can. We've been squeezed and squeezed until we honestly worry about becoming extinct. WE feel suppressed and villainized and all we want is to be - guess what - treated equally, too. Not as a scapegoat and not as the wallet government gets to reach their hands into until we have nothing left. When the middle class diminishes, who is going to finance all the government overspending? Welfare was supposed to cure poverty, but more are in poverty than ever before. It is not working. That's one of those truisms that isn't: Poverty rate over timeIt's particularly interesting to note the extreme growth in the poverty rate during the Bush administration, when he was supposedly busy cutting taxes for the middle class, and in the first couple of years of the Obama administration when those tax cuts were still in effect. The causes of generational poverty are so much more complex than whether or not people are receiving welfare. And the fact that American manufacturing jobs have been phased out is not the fault of either party, but rather a function of normal economic changes over time. It's the free market at work, right? That's supposed to be a good thing. Our middle class is not suppressed and villainized. It has gotten a little too comfortable in thinking that certain kinds of jobs, like manufacturing or mining, will always be there, and suffers a bit in thinking that it is above certain kinds of jobs (I'm thinking here of the trades like plumbing or electrical work). People need re-training, some people may need re-location, and we as a country may need an attitude re-adjustment - but there is no one outside the middle class suppressing it. It is complex, and I concede you are right on some points. But the base middle class is being wrung dry. I will stand by that no matter what anyone says, because I and every middle class person I know is feeling the squeeze. Not everyone is able to go to college or even cut out for it. That doesn't mean they should be looked down on or that their contributions are less than. I honestly feel that the liberal machine has shamed people into thinking that being a plumber or a carpenter is bad. A white collar job with a 6-figure salary is the only way to go. That's unrealistic and an insult to millions of people. They voiced that sentiment on Tuesday. L
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Post by 950nancy on Nov 10, 2016 4:43:16 GMT
I know I'm going to regret posting this....but here it goes. As someone who was repeatedly sexually assaulted as a young child, hearing Trump speak as he has...those ugly words that keep getting repeated... I can't help but to feel that all those that voted for him...my family, my friends, my neighbors, my fellow Americans...all of you who voted for him...think what happened to me is ok. Logically, rationally I know that not to be the case. But emotions are not rational. I feel like I've been literally punched in my gut. I am hurting. I truly don't know how I will handle the next 4 years of presidency. He...through his own words...is a trigger for me. I'm obviously not handling it well right now. My husband has been wonderful and is providing distractions for me, keeping me away from the news, and even cancelled Thanksgiving plans so I won't have to handle the gloating of family who are so ready to rub it on. He thinks I'm playing Best Fiends on my phone right now. Lol. So for those of who are gleeful right now, please understand that I'm not seeing this election as a game or saddened because 'my side' lost...but it's a very personal and emotional issue. So congrats?!? On your win. And now proceed to tell me how wrong my feelings are or how Hillary is actually worse. You guys just chose a sexual predator to be president. You can't do more damage than that. It is lovely that you have a stand up guy in your corner! It doesn't change the past, but must make the future a little better (with him).
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