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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 16:42:26 GMT
Our diverse group of friends includes people of many different faiths (and several atheists like me). I cannot recall one instance in which any of us have taken offense when someone has wished us a Merry Christmas. If that's the case, why all of the push to change it in past years? Because the arc of humanity bends toward justice. And justice includes a recognition of the beliefs of ALL who celebrate at the end of the year - as countless posts on this thread have elucidated at length. But if you still don't get it, you probably never will.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by inkedup on Dec 12, 2016 18:34:51 GMT
I think this comment swings both ways. Why was it such a big deal that Merry Christmas was said and why did it have to change? I'm of the opinion that if someone is wishing me well, I don't care what words they use, but I also believe that people (and businesses) should be able to use whichever words of good wishes they choose. In the last few years it became almost bad manners to wish someone "Merry Christmas" because they might be offended. Now, the pendulum is swinging back a bit. And this Eastern European Jew really doesn't mind hearing "Merry Christmas" instead of Happy Holidays. Though, to be honest, I might be a bit surprised if a store clerk wished my lily-white tush "Happy Kwanza". Our diverse group of friends includes people of many different faiths (and several atheists like me). I cannot recall one instance in which any of us have taken offense when someone has wished us a Merry Christmas. Sorry for the long quote. I'm using my my phone and can't figure out how to edit. At any rate, I have no idea why you seem to think that there has been a huge push to eradicate Christmas. I feel like it's Christians like Skypea and rainbow who turn this into a big deal. I'll be 40 in a few months. I don't know one non-Christian person in my life who has ever expressed outrage over this issue. Wish my Jewish friends a Merry Christmas and I'm sure they'll smile and return your pleasantries with warmth and kindness. Likewise for this big fat atheist, my Muslim friend and her family, the Sikhs, the Pagans and the people of other faiths that I know well. I will repeat: the only people who seem to have this problem are Christians. I'm curious as to the kind of people that you and Rainbow hang out with since this outrage from Non-Christians is so commonplace in your world and yet virtually non-existent in mine.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Dec 12, 2016 21:16:31 GMT
Our diverse group of friends includes people of many different faiths (and several atheists like me). I cannot recall one instance in which any of us have taken offense when someone has wished us a Merry Christmas. Sorry for the long quote. I'm using my my phone and can't figure out how to edit. At any rate, I have no idea why you seem to think that there has been a huge push to eradicate Christmas. I feel like it's Christians like Skypea and rainbow who turn this into a big deal. I'll be 40 in a few months. I don't know one non-Christian person in my life who has ever expressed outrage over this issue. Wish my Jewish friends a Merry Christmas and I'm sure they'll smile and return your pleasantries with warmth and kindness. Likewise for this big fat atheist, my Muslim friend and her family, the Sikhs, the Pagans and the people of other faiths that I know well. I will repeat: the only people who seem to have this problem are Christians. I'm curious as to the kind of people that you and Rainbow hang out with since this outrage from Non-Christians is so commonplace in your world and yet virtually non-existent in mine. Amen!!
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
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Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Dec 12, 2016 22:16:40 GMT
If that's the case, why all of the push to change it in past years? Because the arc of humanity bends toward justice. And justice includes a recognition of the beliefs of ALL who celebrate at the end of the year - as countless posts on this thread have elucidated at length. But if you still don't get it, you probably never will. Only in liberal's America would Christmas be unfair, so stamp it out to make others feel better? What a crock. At least you admit it IS happening.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by inkedup on Dec 12, 2016 22:23:50 GMT
Because the arc of humanity bends toward justice. And justice includes a recognition of the beliefs of ALL who celebrate at the end of the year - as countless posts on this thread have elucidated at length. But if you still don't get it, you probably never will. Only in liberal's America would Christmas be unfair, so stamp it out to make others feel better? What a crock. At least you admit it IS happening.Only right wing, fundamental Christians (no apostrophe necessary) in America would turn a greeting into an attempt to stamp their religion out. I know you're into Jesus, but you don't need to wear the cross all day. I think that was his job. This martyr/victim act that people like you have bought into is nauseating.
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Post by elaine on Dec 12, 2016 22:39:16 GMT
"Happy Holidays" includes Christmas. When someone says "Happy Holidays" one of its obvious meanings is "if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas to you."
Just like "congratulations" means "congratulations on whichever event you are celebrating." If you simply say "congratulations," without saying "congratulations on your wedding," you aren't making some political statement that you are against marriage and trying to stamp it out.
But you can also say "congratulations" and have it cover graduations, engagements, new baby, promotion, etc. If you use it in its expansive/inclusive sense, it doesn't somehow slight the other instances.
Only people who are easily led by the nose to help Fox News celebrities' book sales think there is an effort to stamp out Christmas in the United States.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by inkedup on Dec 12, 2016 22:43:59 GMT
"Happy Holidays" includes Christmas. When someone says "Happy Holidays" one of its obvious meanings is "if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas to you." Just like "congratulations" means "congratulations on whichever event you are celebrating." If you simply say "congratulations," without saying "congratulations on your wedding," you aren't making some political statement that you are against marriage and trying to stamp it out. But you can also say "congratulations" and have it cover graduations, engagements, new baby, promotion, etc. If you use it in its expansive/inclusive sense, it doesn't somehow slight the other instances. Only people who are easily led by the nose to help Fox News celebrities' book sales thinks their is an effort to stamp out Christmas in the United States. It's insane that it even has to be spelled out this way, but bravo to you for wording this so well!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 22:55:34 GMT
You know, when issues of whether a word or label is "offensive", we're told that it's offensive if the people it's being said about are offended, even if the word itself is not offensive. We're told to be "respectful".
Yet, here, for whatever reason, we have some Christians who feel offended, who feel that there is a war on Christmas. Yet rather than be polite or respectful, all they get is ridicule. No being respectful of their feeling, no acknowledgement that they may feel this way. Just ridicule for feeling that way. Yet another hypocrisy by the so-called "tolerant" sect. There may not be a "war" on Christmas but it's definitely "open season" on devout Christians, their beliefs and their feelings. So what if they're happy that there's a return to "Merry Christmas". Is that really a reason for all the denigration seen on this post? This is a really good point. Why now is it accepted to ridicule those that are offended? Including responding in such a way designed specifically to "annoy" those people that are offended. Why is it okay when you don't agree with the offense, but not okay when you do?
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Post by SockMonkey on Dec 12, 2016 22:57:07 GMT
yournationnews.com/about-ynn/Founded In 2015, yournationnews.com is a web publication created by an excited team of writers and developers who are dedicated to finding the webs most interesting, fun, relevant, and important stories that are being published on a daily basis. Since the social media boom began the internet has become flooded with millions of videos, articles, and pictures all competing for likes, shares, and comments. They often use sketchy tactics and ‘click bait’ headlines to try and grab users attention only to be let down when they find out the article has nothing to do with what they were expecting, and instead they are met with ad after ad to be clicked on. At yournationnews.com our goal is to publish only the best, most entertaining and important stories being circulated accross social media in a timely manner so you always have fresh content to enjoy.So, basically "we repost stupid shit we find online." Cool story, bro.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
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Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Dec 13, 2016 1:08:41 GMT
yournationnews.com/about-ynn/Founded In 2015, yournationnews.com is a web publication created by an excited team of writers and developers who are dedicated to finding the webs most interesting, fun, relevant, and important stories that are being published on a daily basis. Since the social media boom began the internet has become flooded with millions of videos, articles, and pictures all competing for likes, shares, and comments. They often use sketchy tactics and ‘click bait’ headlines to try and grab users attention only to be let down when they find out the article has nothing to do with what they were expecting, and instead they are met with ad after ad to be clicked on. At yournationnews.com our goal is to publish only the best, most entertaining and important stories being circulated accross social media in a timely manner so you always have fresh content to enjoy.So, basically "we repost stupid shit we find online." Cool story, bro. I don't have a problem with it.
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Post by SockMonkey on Dec 13, 2016 1:11:19 GMT
yournationnews.com/about-ynn/Founded In 2015, yournationnews.com is a web publication created by an excited team of writers and developers who are dedicated to finding the webs most interesting, fun, relevant, and important stories that are being published on a daily basis. Since the social media boom began the internet has become flooded with millions of videos, articles, and pictures all competing for likes, shares, and comments. They often use sketchy tactics and ‘click bait’ headlines to try and grab users attention only to be let down when they find out the article has nothing to do with what they were expecting, and instead they are met with ad after ad to be clicked on. At yournationnews.com our goal is to publish only the best, most entertaining and important stories being circulated accross social media in a timely manner so you always have fresh content to enjoy.So, basically "we repost stupid shit we find online." Cool story, bro. I don't have a problem with it.Figures.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Dec 13, 2016 1:17:18 GMT
This whole discussion reminds me of one of the nicest compliments I ever received. I was at a gas station, and I don't remember the details as this was 20-25 years ago, but I did something nice or said something nice or whatever. And the clerk said to me, "You must indeed be a delight in the eyes of Allah and your parents!" As evidenced by the fact I still remember it, it really touched me - and guess what? I'm not Muslim! I found that to be a lovely compliment.
My kids' school (and so, by extension, I'll assume the neighborhood as it's the neighborhood school) is 40% first generation families from China and India, who probably mostly haven't been celebrating Christmas. There are also a ton of other first generation families - over 1/3 of the elementary school kids speak a language other than English at home. Overall, the school is about 40% white, most - but not all - of whom are Christian with some Jewish. I will gladly take whatever happy greetings I receive, as I work on planning my son's "Winter Holiday Party." If I know what holidays someone celebrates, I'm perfectly happy to say happy ________ to you. Otherwise, I am aware that probably less than half the people in my neighborhood celebrate Christmas. (There is also circumstantial evidence when you look at the percentage of houses with decorations.)
So happy holidays to all, merry Christmas if you celebrate, and safe travels.
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leeny
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by leeny on Dec 13, 2016 3:58:50 GMT
Hmmm, we are talking about words here, right? Last time I looked Christmas is still being celebrated as is other holidays this time of year. Doesn't look like anyone is getting rid of any holiday religious or otherwise.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Dec 13, 2016 12:06:38 GMT
You know, when issues of whether a word or label is "offensive", we're told that it's offensive if the people it's being said about are offended, even if the word itself is not offensive. We're told to be "respectful".
Yet, here, for whatever reason, we have some Christians who feel offended, who feel that there is a war on Christmas. Yet rather than be polite or respectful, all they get is ridicule. No being respectful of their feeling, no acknowledgement that they may feel this way. Just ridicule for feeling that way. Yet another hypocrisy by the so-called "tolerant" sect. There may not be a "war" on Christmas but it's definitely "open season" on devout Christians, their beliefs and their feelings. So what if they're happy that there's a return to "Merry Christmas". Is that really a reason for all the denigration seen on this post? This is a really good point. Why now is it accepted to ridicule those that are offended? Including responding in such a way designed specifically to "annoy" those people that are offended. Why is it okay when you don't agree with the offense, but not okay when you do? I think you are equating "happy holidays" with hate speech, and I think that is absolutely batshit crazy and asinine. When the evil liberals point out speech that is offensive, it is usually in reference to issues of race and sexuality. It is usually in an attempt to stand up for marginalized groups. The Liberal American War on Christians exists only in your head. Where are American Christians being attacked/harmed for daring to wish someone a Merry Christmas? How does "happy holidays" in any way harm Christianity? I think the real problem is that you, like many Christians, mistakenly believe that your religion gives you the right to dictate how everyone else should live, and it chaps your hide that a growing number of people are rejecting this.
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Post by monklady123 on Dec 13, 2016 12:43:06 GMT
This whole discussion reminds me of one of the nicest compliments I ever received. I was at a gas station, and I don't remember the details as this was 20-25 years ago, but I did something nice or said something nice or whatever. And the clerk said to me, "You must indeed be a delight in the eyes of Allah and your parents!" As evidenced by the fact I still remember it, it really touched me - and guess what? I'm not Muslim! I found that to be a lovely compliment. My kids' school (and so, by extension, I'll assume the neighborhood as it's the neighborhood school) is 40% first generation families from China and India, who probably mostly haven't been celebrating Christmas. There are also a ton of other first generation families - over 1/3 of the elementary school kids speak a language other than English at home. Overall, the school is about 40% white, most - but not all - of whom are Christian with some Jewish. I will gladly take whatever happy greetings I receive, as I work on planning my son's "Winter Holiday Party." If I know what holidays someone celebrates, I'm perfectly happy to say happy ________ to you. Otherwise, I am aware that probably less than half the people in my neighborhood celebrate Christmas. ( There is also circumstantial evidence when you look at the percentage of houses with decorations.)
So happy holidays to all, merry Christmas if you celebrate, and safe travels. Of course then there are those like my retired rabbi and wife neighbors who put up lights because they think they're pretty. He wishes me a merry Christmas and I wish him a happy Hanukkah and we enjoy each other's lights. Although...mine are prettier because mine twinkle and his don't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 13:27:24 GMT
Perhaps this ad is more to the OP's liking? Hey, it says Christmas. I'm sure Christ would be thrilled that he was being press-ganged to hock assault weapons. I believe this pic is from last year, but, whoops, they did it again.
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Post by gar on Dec 13, 2016 13:29:33 GMT
Perhaps this ad is more to the OP's liking? Hey, it says Christmas. I'm sure Christ would be thrilled that he was being press-ganged to hock assault weapons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 13:36:56 GMT
.... I think the real problem is that you, like many Christians, mistakenly believe that your religion gives you the right to dictate how everyone else should live, and it chaps your hide that a growing number of people are rejecting this. This. Exactly this. So many religions "of the book" - whichever book it be - and, of course, theirs is always the RIGHT book, need to tell their adherents not only, "hey, YOU believe and live like this", but rather, "hey, YOU believe and live like this AND MAKE IT YOUR BUSINESS TO ENSURE THAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES TOO". And therein lies much of the misery and hatred in the world.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 13:37:40 GMT
Nothing says Christmas like the sound of gunfire
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 19:52:54 GMT
This is a really good point. Why now is it accepted to ridicule those that are offended? Including responding in such a way designed specifically to "annoy" those people that are offended. Why is it okay when you don't agree with the offense, but not okay when you do? I think you are equating "happy holidays" with hate speech, and I think that is absolutely batshit crazy and asinine. When the evil liberals point out speech that is offensive, it is usually in reference to issues of race and sexuality. It is usually in an attempt to stand up for marginalized groups. The Liberal American War on Christians exists only in your head. Where are American Christians being attacked/harmed for daring to wish someone a Merry Christmas? How does "happy holidays" in any way harm Christianity? I think the real problem is that you, like many Christians, mistakenly believe that your religion gives you the right to dictate how everyone else should live, and it chaps your hide that a growing number of people are rejecting this. You must have missed my previous post on this thread to come to that conclusion. Everything I said in it contradicts your conclusion about me and my my feelings on this subject. Not to mention this was from what I was responding to: So no. I'm not "equating "happy holidays" with hate speech". Nothing in what I said anywhere. ever. backs up your conclusion about me.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Dec 13, 2016 20:14:35 GMT
I think you are equating "happy holidays" with hate speech, and I think that is absolutely batshit crazy and asinine. When the evil liberals point out speech that is offensive, it is usually in reference to issues of race and sexuality. It is usually in an attempt to stand up for marginalized groups. The Liberal American War on Christians exists only in your head. Where are American Christians being attacked/harmed for daring to wish someone a Merry Christmas? How does "happy holidays" in any way harm Christianity? I think the real problem is that you, like many Christians, mistakenly believe that your religion gives you the right to dictate how everyone else should live, and it chaps your hide that a growing number of people are rejecting this. You must have missed my previous post on this thread to come to that conclusion. Everything I said in it contradicts your conclusion about me and my my feelings on this subject. Not to mention this was from what I was responding to: So no. I'm not "equating "happy holidays" with hate speech". Nothing in what I said anywhere. ever. backs up your conclusion about me. Yes, you are equating "happy holidays" with hate speech. You're attempting to imply that weak and thin-skinned liberals police you and don't allow you to use words freely, even when they're not offensive IN YOUR OPINION. I don't have the desire to dig through your posts (though I know you do), but I do recall more than one instance in which you have used the word "thug" to describe a group of generally black people. You aren't even brave enough to be an outright racist. You just couch your criticisms in vague, racially loaded terms, and then act innocent, like why would anyone object to the word "thug?" Stop playing victim and stop playing innocent. It's really old at this point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 20:41:29 GMT
You must have missed my previous post on this thread to come to that conclusion. Everything I said in it contradicts your conclusion about me and my my feelings on this subject. Not to mention this was from what I was responding to: So no. I'm not "equating "happy holidays" with hate speech". Nothing in what I said anywhere. ever. backs up your conclusion about me. Yes, you are equating "happy holidays" with hate speech. You're attempting to imply that weak and thin-skinned liberals police you and don't allow you to use words freely, even when they're not offensive IN YOUR OPINION. I don't have the desire to dig through your posts (though I know you do), but I do recall more than one instance in which you have used the word "thug" to describe a group of generally black people. You aren't even brave enough to be an outright racist. You just couch your criticisms in vague, racially loaded terms, and then act innocent, like why would anyone object to the word "thug?" Stop playing victim and stop playing innocent. It's really old at this point. Nah, the word applies to anyone, of any color, who acts like a destructive/violent criminal and I've never thought or said any differently. But, it is sad to see you jump to another topic in order to throw the "racist" label at me in some sort of pathetic attempt to demonize me because I asked why it's okay to ridicule others when they get offended about something you don't think they should be offended about. Because previously it has been the stated standard here to err on the side of caution if someone tells you something offends them, then you do your best to make sure you don't offend. You certainly don't resort to ridiculing them.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by inkedup on Dec 13, 2016 21:08:27 GMT
Yes, you are equating "happy holidays" with hate speech. You're attempting to imply that weak and thin-skinned liberals police you and don't allow you to use words freely, even when they're not offensive IN YOUR OPINION. I don't have the desire to dig through your posts (though I know you do), but I do recall more than one instance in which you have used the word "thug" to describe a group of generally black people. You aren't even brave enough to be an outright racist. You just couch your criticisms in vague, racially loaded terms, and then act innocent, like why would anyone object to the word "thug?" Stop playing victim and stop playing innocent. It's really old at this point. Nah, the word applies to anyone, of any color, who acts like a destructive/violent criminal and I've never thought or said any differently. But, it is sad to see you jump to another topic in order to throw the "racist" label at me in some sort of pathetic attempt to demonize me because I asked why it's okay to ridicule others when they get offended about something you don't think they should be offended about. Because previously it has been the stated standard here to err on the side of caution if someone tells you something offends them, then you do your best to make sure you don't offend. You certainly don't resort to ridiculing them. Pot, kettle, etc. You are consistently offensive to many people here. I don't see you going out of your way give those people any kind of consideration. You challenged me to prove the difference between benign speech like "happy holidays" and speech that the community attempts to police. I used "thug" as an example and your response was textbook, I'm being a bitch and I will own it. You should at least do the same. You are so passive aggressive. You say shitty things and then act like you have no idea how anyone could possibly have misinterpreted whatever shitty point you're arguing to death. I'm sick of this victim spiel that the usual suspects spew. I'm sick of watching you all sling shit and then cry about how bad this place smells. You are no better than any of us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 21:12:42 GMT
Nah, the word applies to anyone, of any color, who acts like a destructive/violent criminal and I've never thought or said any differently. But, it is sad to see you jump to another topic in order to throw the "racist" label at me in some sort of pathetic attempt to demonize me because I asked why it's okay to ridicule others when they get offended about something you don't think they should be offended about. Because previously it has been the stated standard here to err on the side of caution if someone tells you something offends them, then you do your best to make sure you don't offend. You certainly don't resort to ridiculing them. Pot, kettle, etc. You are consistently offensive to many people here. I don't see you going out of your way give those people any kind of consideration. You challenged me to prove the difference between benign speech like "happy holidays" and speech that the community attempts to police. I used "thug" as an example and your response was textbook, I'm being a bitch and I will own it. You should at least do the same. You are so passive aggressive. You say shitty things and then act like you have no idea how anyone could possibly have misinterpreted whatever shitty point you're arguing to death. I'm sick of this victim spiel that the usual suspects spew. I'm sick of watching you all sling shit and then cry about how bad this place smells. You are no better than any of us. I've been civil and respectful in my discussions. The only time people are offended by what I say is when I point the mirror back at them AFTER they resort to personal attacks and insults.
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Post by lucyg on Dec 13, 2016 21:42:41 GMT
The only time people are offended by what I say is when I point the mirror back at them AFTER they resort to personal attacks and insults. um, NO. And as long as you continue to equate saying Happy Holidays being offensive to people who want to be told Merry Christmas with calling people by what you have been told multiple times are racially-charged words, then yes, you're going to annoy and (dare I say it) offend people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 21:52:08 GMT
The only time people are offended by what I say is when I point the mirror back at them AFTER they resort to personal attacks and insults. um, NO. And as long as you continue to equate saying Happy Holidays being offensive to people who want to be told Merry Christmas with calling people by what you have been told multiple times are racially-charged words, then yes, you're going to annoy and (dare I say it) offend people. Um, YES. You must have missed where I said that isn't what I'm talking about. Just because someone else asserted that was what I was doing, doesn't mean that's what I was doing. I specifically pointed out the words that showed it doesn't apply. If you want to ignore them to prove your point, you haven't really proven your point.
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Post by lucyg on Dec 13, 2016 22:15:00 GMT
You know, when issues of whether a word or label is "offensive", we're told that it's offensive if the people it's being said about are offended, even if the word itself is not offensive. We're told to be "respectful".
Yet, here, for whatever reason, we have some Christians who feel offended, who feel that there is a war on Christmas. Yet rather than be polite or respectful, all they get is ridicule. No being respectful of their feeling, no acknowledgement that they may feel this way. Just ridicule for feeling that way. Yet another hypocrisy by the so-called "tolerant" sect. There may not be a "war" on Christmas but it's definitely "open season" on devout Christians, their beliefs and their feelings. So what if they're happy that there's a return to "Merry Christmas". Is that really a reason for all the denigration seen on this post? This is a really good point. Why now is it accepted to ridicule those that are offended? Including responding in such a way designed specifically to "annoy" those people that are offended. Why is it okay when you don't agree with the offense, but not okay when you do? Um, YES. You must have missed where I said that isn't what I'm talking about. Just because someone else asserted that was what I was doing, doesn't mean that's what I was doing. I specifically pointed out the words that showed it doesn't apply. If you want to ignore them to prove your point, you haven't really proven your point. Not sure what you think you're defending. I'm not going through all the posts to see if you contradicted yourself elsewhere. I was referring specifically to the fact that you agreed with Lauren's contention that if someone wants to be told Merry Christmas, we are being offensive if we say Happy Holidays instead (whether or not we in fact are aware of their personal preference). Wishing someone Happy Holidays in order to be inclusive of everyone, even though a few are insisting on their own faith-specific Merry Christmas, is not quite in the same arena as calling people colored when they've asked to be referred to as African-American.
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Post by elaine on Dec 13, 2016 22:32:30 GMT
This is a really good point. Why now is it accepted to ridicule those that are offended? Including responding in such a way designed specifically to "annoy" those people that are offended. Why is it okay when you don't agree with the offense, but not okay when you do? Um, YES. You must have missed where I said that isn't what I'm talking about. Just because someone else asserted that was what I was doing, doesn't mean that's what I was doing. I specifically pointed out the words that showed it doesn't apply. If you want to ignore them to prove your point, you haven't really proven your point. Not sure what you think you're defending. I'm not going through all the posts to see if you contradicted yourself elsewhere. I was referring specifically to the fact that you agreed with Lauren's contention that if someone wants to be told Merry Christmas, we are being offensive if we say Happy Holidays instead (whether or not we in fact are aware of their personal preference). Wishing someone Happy Holidays in order to be inclusive of everyone, even though a few are insisting on their own faith-specific Merry Christmas, is not quite in the same arena as calling people colored when they've asked to be referred to as African-American.A thousand times this. "Happy Holidays" is actually short for " I wish you Happy Holidays." It is a statement that reflects on the person saying it. And it includes Christmas, amongst other holidays. I'm not sure how/why someone would get offended by someone saying something that reflects on the sayer all the while positively including whatever holiday the listener celebrates. Choosing words to label or refer people who belong to groups (racial, religious, political, ses, etc.) that the speaker does not belong to, and which the speaker has been told are offensive to those people they are talking about, is something completely different. The speaker is not talking about herself, she is talking about other people. And those people have a right to be offended by someone calling them names they find offensive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 22:41:41 GMT
This is a really good point. Why now is it accepted to ridicule those that are offended? Including responding in such a way designed specifically to "annoy" those people that are offended. Why is it okay when you don't agree with the offense, but not okay when you do? Um, YES. You must have missed where I said that isn't what I'm talking about. Just because someone else asserted that was what I was doing, doesn't mean that's what I was doing. I specifically pointed out the words that showed it doesn't apply. If you want to ignore them to prove your point, you haven't really proven your point. Not sure what you think you're defending. I'm not going through all the posts to see if you contradicted yourself elsewhere. I was referring specifically to the fact that you agreed with Lauren's contention that if someone wants to be told Merry Christmas, we are being offensive if we say Happy Holidays instead (whether or not we in fact are aware of their personal preference). Wishing someone Happy Holidays in order to be inclusive of everyone, even though a few are insisting on their own faith-specific Merry Christmas, is not quite in the same arena as calling people colored when they've asked to be referred to as African-American. I already said I don't find "Happy Holidays" offensive. I said that to me, that it's always been the same as/interchangeable with Merry Christmas. Or anything else that anyone celebrates now that I'm thinking about it. So I haven't changed from that stance, nor am I equating it to undeniably offensive words or terms, no matter how many times you try to say I am. I was specifically responding to ~Lauren~ 's point that in the past it has been said here, that even if you don't find something offensive you do your best not to offend and yet, here are many of you ridiculing those that are offended.
I'm questioning the RIDICULING.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Dec 13, 2016 23:08:17 GMT
You must have missed my previous post on this thread to come to that conclusion. Everything I said in it contradicts your conclusion about me and my my feelings on this subject. Not to mention this was from what I was responding to: So no. I'm not "equating "happy holidays" with hate speech". Nothing in what I said anywhere. ever. backs up your conclusion about me. Yes, you are equating "happy holidays" with hate speech. You're attempting to imply that weak and thin-skinned liberals police you and don't allow you to use words freely, even when they're not offensive IN YOUR OPINION. I don't have the desire to dig through your posts (though I know you do), but I do recall more than one instance in which you have used the word "thug" to describe a group of generally black people. You aren't even brave enough to be an outright racist. You just couch your criticisms in vague, racially loaded terms, and then act innocent, like why would anyone object to the word "thug?" Stop playing victim and stop playing innocent. It's really old at this point. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! Accurately nailed it!
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