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Post by danid on Aug 15, 2014 23:24:53 GMT
I have no clue how to do a search here for a certain thread, so I'm just wondering if there was one started about that kid Michael Brown who was shot by the police officer in Missouri recently? I hadn't paid much attention to the story and was curious what was going on and what people thought about the situation......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 23:31:25 GMT
Oh I think a lot of things. Mainly I'm horrified how this was handled by the town of Ferguson. Media members getting arrested and tear gassed, peaceful protestors tear gassed and sprayed with rubber bullets.
Now of course looting is wrong as is violent protesting but I'm horrified at the things that have been happening in this town.
As for the case itself I'm trying to hold judgement but I really have a hard time with an unarmed person being shot to death. Big issue.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 15, 2014 23:42:37 GMT
I haven't seen a thread on this yet. I woke up to the end of the press conference this morning. I have been at work all day so I haven't been able to see it so I can't comment yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 23:44:01 GMT
We discussed it a little bit in the candlelight vigil thread but not much elsewhere.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 15, 2014 23:47:17 GMT
I watched CNN last night when Don Lemon interviewed law enforcement and on/off today. I am trying to hold off judgment too. I hope the FBI and/or DOJ handles the investigation and there is transparency.
There seems to be conflicting information mostly coming from the Chief in Ferguson. I think this situation was badly handled locally. Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol has been a voice of reason and is in charge of keeping peace during the protests.
I said to my husband it feels like the 1960's again.
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Post by myshelly on Aug 15, 2014 23:51:22 GMT
We had a thread about "why do people riot" but we haven't had a thread about Michael or talked about the police.
I don't know very much about the original shooting.
I think that's a huge part of the problem - no one knows enough about the original incident bc the police have not been forthcoming and, in my opinion, haven't done a very diligent investigation.
Rioting and looting is wrong and unacceptable.
But it should always be the job of the police to make things BETTER and it seems that all they have done at every step is to make things worse in every imaginable way.
The way that press, bystanders, and legitimate protestors have been treated is terrifying.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 23:59:40 GMT
I heard Captain Ron Johnson speak tonight and I just love him. He is calm and clearly the voice of reason. The local police seem to be handling this very poorly.
Even with the new footage out from the security cameras where Michael Brown took items from a store and refused to pay, and even going so far as to put his hands on the store clerk, no one deserves to get killed in the street over that.
But I've also read of Brown attacking the police officer, trying to get his gun...and the initial gunshot happening in the confines of the police car. So if an assault on a police officer is what brought on the shooting, I fully side with law enforcement on that issue. As much as no one deserves to be shot in the street, ALL of our police officers deserve to go home after every shift to their families.
Brown was shot and killed within TEN MINUTES of the 911 call about the robbery. I can't help but wonder what frame of mind Brown was in at the time of that fatal confrontation.
I wish that local police were more forthcoming with the investigation. I wish local residents (and those across the country like Sharpton and Crump) would sit back and allow an investigation to happen before jumping in front of the microphones.
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marianne
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by marianne on Aug 16, 2014 0:00:44 GMT
I'm withholding judgement until we get more information and a more balanced picture, but the way the police handled the situation is horrendous. And scary.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 0:01:19 GMT
I'm very sorry that young man lost his life. There seem to be conflicting stories coming from different sides about what really happened. I'm glad the governor of Missouri had the good sense to bring in the State Police to try to calm the situation. That seems to have helped tremendously.
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azredhead
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Post by azredhead on Aug 16, 2014 0:12:31 GMT
It was all handled VERY wrong. I hope they do find out what really happened.
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Aug 16, 2014 0:29:32 GMT
I too am withholding judgement about the events and motivations that led to the death of Michael Brown. But none of that (in my opinion), even the looting afterwards, justified the militaristic power trip the local authorities took afterwards - including the firing of tear gas and rubber bullets at the peaceful demonstrators, and the intimidation and suppression of the journalists. I'm really glad things have come under control, and hope that the whole truth comes out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 0:39:39 GMT
I too am withholding judgement about the events and motivations that led to the death of Michael Brown. But none of that (in my opinion), even the looting afterwards, justified the militaristic power trip the local authorities took afterwards - including the firing of tear gas and rubber bullets at the peaceful demonstrators, and the intimidation and suppression of the journalists. I'm really glad things have come under control, and hope that the whole truth comes out. I can't defend how the local police have handled this, but in regards to the heavy handedness of their response...IMO when you have a crowd shouting "no justice no peace" and shouts to "kill the police" and cries to go to the "rich white neighborhoods" to kill, burn and loot...as much as I don't like the heavy handedness, I feel the police wanted to get that shit under control before it became even more out of control. But with that said, I'm glad to see the local police now out and the state police in charge. I think that was a very wise move on all fronts.
So basically, the behavior of those rioting and shouting violent threats are the ones responsible for the means taken by law enforcement.
All JMO
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Post by 2peaornot2pea on Aug 16, 2014 0:51:13 GMT
The evidence I've seen reported in the news suggests the officer shot and killed an unarmed teenager, even though the teen was trying to retreat and had his arms up in surrender.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 0:57:06 GMT
The evidence I've seen reported in the news suggests the officer shot and killed an unarmed teenager, even though the teen was trying to retreat and had his arms up in surrender. What evidence is there?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 1:05:06 GMT
Don't police cars have cameras or some kind of recording devices to record conversations? Do they need to be turned on? I was watching an episode of dateline where twin sisters killed their mother and were caught discussing how they were going to get away with it while they sat in the back of the car.
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Post by angiet on Aug 16, 2014 1:12:09 GMT
I'm in the suburb just to the north of Ferguson and this is horrible. It just feels tense when I am out and about. I don't know if it is real or just my imagination, but the air feels charged.
I don't have an opinion on what really happened last Saturday and I'm not sure we ever will know exactly what happened, but I think the response that the local officials have made is NOT good. Wednesday night when the St. Louis County officers were tear gassing the scene was just too much! It makes me sad to live in St. Louis County.
This touches so many people. A good friend works with Michael Brown's mother. Another friend's husband works at a grocery store very near the riot area and was working on Sunday evening. My new co-worker's husband is a St. Louis County police officer and he has had a neighbor post a sign in the neighborhood (not in Ferguson) threatening him. He was also on duty in Ferguson.(I don't know in what capacity) The girl who cuts my hair lives in Dellwood and was nervous about the situation, as anyone would be. A fb friend that I have known since elementary school works on the county executive's staff and has been posting some thoughtful observations on fb. This is just hitting too close to home.
I hope nothing happens tonight.
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Post by gryroagain on Aug 16, 2014 1:12:13 GMT
I was talking to my oldest DD about this yesterday, before the tape showing he shoplifted came out. It doesn't matter if he did steal something, or was belligerent to the cop, or even was fleeing arrest- you don't shoot someone dead over that! Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in this country. Deadly force should be reserved for officers whose lives are in danger, and I can't in any way see how this fits that criteria. He was running away. He could have been a saint who saves puppies, or a devil who kicks them, he still should not have been shot in the street.
And it was handled so terribly. I can't help but think it was because the people in charge thought- eh, it's a poor black county, who cares? I want that not to be the case, but interview after interview with the citizens who live there shows there is a long history of police harassment and civic neglect. People are fed up, and well they should be, they are citizens just as much as any other.
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Post by angiet on Aug 16, 2014 1:14:50 GMT
The Ferguson police department bought cameras earlier this year, but has not had the money to install them in all the police cars yet. The police chief said that they were being installed by their own garage as they could get the money for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 1:15:44 GMT
I was talking to my oldest DD about this yesterday, before the tape showing he shoplifted came out. It doesn't matter if he did steal something, or was belligerent to the cop, or even was fleeing arrest- you don't shoot someone dead over that! Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in this country. Deadly force should be reserved for officers whose lives are in danger, and I can't in any way see how this fits that criteria. He was running away. He could have been a saint who saves puppies, or a devil who kicks them, he still should not have been shot in the street. And it was handled so terribly. I can't help but think it was because the people in charge thought- eh, it's a poor black county, who cares? I want that not to be the case, but interview after interview with the citizens who live there shows there is a long history of police harassment and civic neglect. People are fed up, and well they should be, they are citizens just as much as any other. But at this point, do we know what happened? I admit to not following this closely.
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Post by annabella on Aug 16, 2014 1:22:35 GMT
Don't police cars have cameras or some kind of recording devices to record conversations? Do they need to be turned on? I was watching an episode of dateline where twin sisters killed their mother and were caught discussing how they were going to get away with it while they sat in the back of the car. I believe it faces the street to show what happens when a cop pulls up behind a car and walks up to the car. Everyone crying fowl seems to have forgotten these issues. However it's come out that the police officer didn't know he was a robbery suspect and Brown tried to push the officer back into his car as he was trying to get out. Basically the victim's supports are saying criminals have rights and should be treated xyz way. Al Sharpton is already on the scene and Trayvon Martin's attorney is representing the family (yes seriously). The department took awhile to release the officer's name and that's what's upset some people and let to distrust.
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Post by Kymberlee on Aug 16, 2014 1:33:25 GMT
Do you blame them for withholding the officer's name as long as they could?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 16, 2014 1:33:45 GMT
I heard Captain Ron Johnson speak tonight and I just love him. He is calm and clearly the voice of reason. The local police seem to be handling this very poorly. Even with the new footage out from the security cameras where Michael Brown took items from a store and refused to pay, and even going so far as to put his hands on the store clerk, no one deserves to get killed in the street over that. But I've also read of Brown attacking the police officer, trying to get his gun...and the initial gunshot happening in the confines of the police car. So if an assault on a police officer is what brought on the shooting, I fully side with law enforcement on that issue. As much as no one deserves to be shot in the street, ALL of our police officers deserve to go home after every shift to their families. Brown was shot and killed within TEN MINUTES of the 911 call about the robbery. I can't help but wonder what frame of mind Brown was in at the time of that fatal confrontation. I wish that local police were more forthcoming with the investigation. I wish local residents (and those across the country like Sharpton and Crump) would sit back and allow an investigation to happen before jumping in front of the microphones. I am just going to agree with everything GAJenny said in this post ^^^ I have read the same things about the kid, think that the police are not so much trying to cover up, I think that they are blundering away because of all the heated riots, protests, death threats against the officer and his family. It is out of control.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 1:34:04 GMT
I was talking to my oldest DD about this yesterday, before the tape showing he shoplifted came out. It doesn't matter if he did steal something, or was belligerent to the cop, or even was fleeing arrest- you don't shoot someone dead over that! Cops are not judge, jury and executioner in this country. Deadly force should be reserved for officers whose lives are in danger, and I can't in any way see how this fits that criteria. The officer is saying he was trying to get his gun from him.
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Post by gryroagain on Aug 16, 2014 1:39:04 GMT
But he was what- 10 feet away when shot? Obviously he didn't get the gun. That is my point- he was fleeing. If he had wrestled with the officer over the gun and been shot at that point, it's different- that is reasonable use of deadly force. But shooting an unarmed 18 year old fleeing the scene- why? What is "deserving" of death in that scenario, regardless of what came before?
Dead is dead- you don't come back from dead. Cops can't just be shooting people, even if they commit crimes, in this cow try. That isn't how it works. But according to the residents of Ferguson, that is how it works there, and they are fed up- and rightly so, IMO. Due process is supposed to be colorblind.
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Aug 16, 2014 1:46:59 GMT
The witnesses I've heard speak say he was fleeing after the tussle by the car, was shot at (and possibly hit) once, stopped and turned around with his hands up, and was then shot several more times. CNN
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 1:48:04 GMT
But he was what- 10 feet away when shot? Obviously he didn't get the gun. That is my point- he was fleeing. If he had wrestled with the officer over the gun and been shot at that point, it's different- that is reasonable use of deadly force. But shooting an unarmed 18 year old fleeing the scene- why? What is "deserving" of death in that scenario, regardless of what came before? Dead is dead- you don't come back from dead. Cops can't just be shooting people, even if they commit crimes, in this cow try. That isn't how it works. But according to the residents of Ferguson, that is how it works there, and they are fed up- and rightly so, IMO. Due process is supposed to be colorblind. I don't know how far away Michael Brown was when he was shot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 1:50:32 GMT
The first shot happened in the car. After that I haven't heard the officer's side of what happened, only the witnesses'. Does anyone know what the officer is saying about why he kept shooting?
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Aug 16, 2014 1:53:22 GMT
The first shot happened in the car. After that I haven't heard the officer's side of what happened, only the witnesses'. Does anyone know what the officer is saying about why he kept shooting? No. No statement from the officer involved or actual police report about the shooting has been released. The officer has apparently has left the area as well. The FBI is doing an investigation as well, and I suspect that is why no official report has come out yet.
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Aug 16, 2014 2:22:47 GMT
It came out today that the kid had just robbed a store for some cheap cigars just before that with his buddy. It was his "buddy" that said he was retreating.
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Post by annabella on Aug 16, 2014 2:27:47 GMT
Do you blame them for withholding the officer's name as long as they could? I don't know what the rules are for that. Clearly some attorney stepped in and said they broke a rule not releasing the name immediately. You have to follow policy and not doing something makes the department look bad and untrustworthy.
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