Deleted
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Jun 16, 2024 13:41:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 3:43:18 GMT
link
From the New York Times: "trump campaign aides had repeated contacts with Russian Intelligence." The story claims that both campaign aides and other trump associates had repeated contact with Russian Intelligence in the year before the election. The story goes on to say American law enforcement intercepted the communications around the same time that they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the Presidential election. The Intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the trump campaign was colluding with Russians on the hacking or other effects to influence the election. Officials, interviewed in recent weeks, said that, so far they had seen no evidence of such cooperation. So far just a few Republicans are calling for investigations but the ones who can make it happen are saying there is nothing to investigate. Or were part of the trump campaign like the new AG Sessions. But there is something to investigate and it doesn't matter if it is true or not because it's "out there". And it needs to be investigated by an independent counsel because the American people need to know trump and his aides connection to Russia and did anyone in the trump campaign work with Russian Intelligence to disrupt the election. Again we need to find out. One does not just call Russian Intelligence to say "hi how are you?"
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,752
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Feb 15, 2017 3:53:27 GMT
I read that and another article about it via twitter. Wish I could find it... I'll try. But anyway there was a picture of Trump standing in front of an EXIT sign!!!!!  (a girl can dream!) |
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036 
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Post by used2scrap on Feb 15, 2017 3:56:30 GMT
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
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Post by pyccku on Feb 15, 2017 4:02:47 GMT
Watching CNN and the pro-Trump guy is squirming quite a bit.
This is crazy. Leak....deny....leak something that shows the denial was a lie...leak some more...leak...leak...
The drip is becoming a steady stream.
Dan rather posted that watergate was a 9/10 but this may be bigger when all is said and done.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
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Post by trollie on Feb 15, 2017 4:03:07 GMT
Trump publicly asked the Russians to find Hillary's deleted emails. He spoke directly to the Russians via one of the debates. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,664
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Feb 15, 2017 4:08:53 GMT
I'm afraid that none of this matters to most of the Republicans and all of Trump supporters.
I'm pretty sure nothing will come of this. It was all known before the election but they still voted for him.
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Post by elaine on Feb 15, 2017 4:59:47 GMT
The more that comes out about how frequent communication between the Trump campaign and Russia has been and for how long, I am completely dumbstruck that everyone isn't shouting for their heads, regardless of party.
Do people not have any ethics any more?
Why would any. single. person. on. this. board. be okay with Trump's future National Security Advisor telling the Russians not to worry about sanctions for them tampering with our elections because Trump would dismiss them all?
What is the possible defense? What?
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
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Post by katybee on Feb 15, 2017 5:04:40 GMT
People don't want to know. They want to stick their heads in the sand. La la la la la. They say it here all the time. They don't want to be stressed out even by the little red "politics" label. It's very disheartening to me.
So the world will fall apart while they ignore it...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 13:41:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 5:09:00 GMT
I'm afraid that none of this matters to most of the Republicans and all of Trump supporters. I'm pretty sure nothing will come of this. It was all known before the election but they still voted for him. Was watching Rachel Maddow when this story broke. Just before she was talking about the "rule of law" and if the Republicans can be trusted to do what they are suppose to do. Oversight. I don't see how the Republicans in Congress can ignore this. I know they are all power crazy but this is not going away. I think we are past that point and the longer the Republicans ignore it they more they will be tied to trump. In that PPP poll that is floating around the question was asked "Do you like Russia" and if I remember correctly 65% in the poll said no. That includes trump supporters. One never knows what's going to get people all excited about elected officials. Look how the public turned against Nixon and that was for breaking in to the DNC and then hiding it. If that poll is correct and 65% of Americans don't like Russia it won't sit well if the Republicans don't get to the bottom of trump's connection to Russia one way or the other. The "masses" will turn on trump and the Republicans. Never mind the lack of trust our allies will have in this country. |
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Feb 15, 2017 5:36:31 GMT
The more that comes out about how frequent communication between the Trump campaign and Russia has been and for how long, I am completely dumbstruck that everyone isn't shouting for their heads, regardless of party. Do people not have any ethics any more? Why would any. single. person. on. this. board. be okay with Trump's future National Security Advisor telling the Russians not to worry about sanctions for them tampering with our elections because Trump would dismiss them all? What is the possible defense? What? To answer your Q : No possible defense. I am am quoting you to refine and remind on a point not made clear in the thread title (possibly not enough space.) From what I just saw on the news the trump campaign and the administration are not just in frequent communication with Russia, they are in frequent communication with persons in Russia who are on the lists of Russians being monitored by the CIA. Gulp. ETA: Russia and the cruise missile. Russia and the spy ship off the east coast of the USA. Crimea. Ukraine. These are just baby steps, Russia is just having a laugh, not doing anything serious, while tiny hands worries about leaks- to be clear, he is not concerned (yet) about what this whole scandal means, just about who is talking behind his back. Of course the resignation of your top security advisor is your domestic issue. They are relying on constant domestic chaos in the US to really get going with their agenda. T apparently didn't have enough time and space on his hands yesterday to get KAC on message; was he preparing for Netanyahu or obsessing about leaks? Maybe celebrating the 23-15 vote which means his Tax Returns are safe for now? Would anyone have believed this kind of scenario just a few short months ago? Would anyone care to speculate that the missile and/or the ship are soft targets set up between your administration and Russia by which I mean DT can issue a cease and desist type message, Russia can comply and the administration can then say "We told you so- we are tough on Russia"? |
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Post by refugeepea on Feb 15, 2017 5:42:39 GMT
It isn't surprising.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
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Post by LeaP on Feb 15, 2017 5:43:27 GMT
It sounds like a bad movie, like the one Sean Spicer was in:  SaveSave |
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Post by hopemax on Feb 15, 2017 6:42:43 GMT
Why would any. single. person. on. this. board. be okay with Trump's future National Security Advisor telling the Russians not to worry about sanctions for them tampering with our elections because Trump would dismiss them all? What is the possible defense? What? This is not offered as a defense, but... A lot of people in this country likely don't believe that any of this will have any bearing on their day-to-day life. They aren't going to be spied on, they have nothing to lose in terms of assets because they live paycheck to paycheck, if Russia decides to full on invade one of the former Soviet states and the US basically lets them, what does it matter to them, it's halfway around the world. It's not like their kids are going to be sent off to fight for Ukraine or wherever. If countries in Asia build up their military, then good, they can take care of North Korea and we don't have to. Basically, they have no skin in the game and much more immediate things to worry about closer to home. Most of us under the age of 65 (those who experienced Vietnam first hand) have no experiences with the heavy loss of life war can bring. Most of us under the age of 90 have no experience with the rationing and an entire nation being directed to a war effort like WWII (and the massive loss of life). The Cold War is decades past now, and turned out to be from a day-to-day US life perspective a lot of smoke, and no fire. So that's the worst that can happen, right? To us devastation is such an abstract concept, and easy to look around all our modern conveniences and luxury that the idea that it could all disappear...complete and utter nonsense. That happens in other, less civilized, parts of the world, it doesn't happen here. If you believe that this has the potential to be prelude to the next world war, and that we no longer have the protection of geography (this started with hacking, what else do we have that can be hacked), the idea of a foreign government as powerful as Russia having the ability to manipulate the "leader of the free world," gives them access to our defense capabilities, our intelligence, our economy, our infrastructure, our everything. And no matter your political affiliation that should scare the crap out of you. If you believe, all of this means the stock market may wobble around a bit, and you or your family members lose their job again, like every other time rich people play with fire, what difference does it make if it's Russia pulling strings or not? But I think the answer to why don't more people care...because they can't see the impact on their life. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 15, 2017 11:49:47 GMT
The more that comes out about how frequent communication between the Trump campaign and Russia has been and for how long, I am completely dumbstruck that everyone isn't shouting for their heads, regardless of party. Do people not have any ethics any more? Why would any. single. person. on. this. board. be okay with Trump's future National Security Advisor telling the Russians not to worry about sanctions for them tampering with our elections because Trump would dismiss them all? What is the possible defense? What? They deny it. "Maybe so, but Hillary is worse." <----That sort of thing. Also see Benghazi! Emails! SMDH |
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Feb 15, 2017 12:01:53 GMT
The more that comes out about how frequent communication between the Trump campaign and Russia has been and for how long, I am completely dumbstruck that everyone isn't shouting for their heads, regardless of party. Do people not have any ethics any more? Why would any. single. person. on. this. board. be okay with Trump's future National Security Advisor telling the Russians not to worry about sanctions for them tampering with our elections because Trump would dismiss them all? What is the possible defense? What? They deny it. "Maybe so, but Hillary is worse." <----That sort of thing. Also see Benghazi! Emails! SMDH  |
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,984
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Post by Sarah*H on Feb 15, 2017 12:03:30 GMT
Putting aside the issue of the lack of integrity of Republicans in Congress, I think this is absolutely true. Lately when I read these stories and all of the accompanying anticipated outrage and surety that finally *THIS* latest most terrible thing will be what brings him down, I feel like I'm the one living in an alternate universe. The same newspapers or outlets publishing the investigative pieces also feature stories with run of the mill Trump supporters - the lady at the convenience store, Don the truck driver, Ed the bricklayer in Ohio (etc.) and not only do they not pay attention to this stuff, even if they did, as the poster above said a) it doesn't impact their day to day lives and b) they no longer believe what real media reports.
I said before the election that if you asked the average Trump supporter about the role of NATO in post WWII security, many of them probably can't even tell you what NATO is. His numbers will consistently stay at or near the 40% mark for awhile because these revelations are not breaking through that wall. Maybe eventually the constant trickle of incompetence and criminal behavior will start to erode his support and THAT is when Republicans in Congress will make their move but I don't think it will happen unless his numbers dive into the mid-30s. The Rs will not risk alienating that base ahead of the midterms.
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Post by Fairlyoddparent on Feb 15, 2017 13:04:25 GMT
People don't want to know. They want to stick their heads in the sand. La la la la la. They say it here all the time. They don't want to be stressed out even by the little red "politics" label. It's very disheartening to me. So the world will fall apart while they ignore it... I'm not sticking my head in the sand. I'm reading and listening to the news reports. I am disheartened with the whole political mess. I think they are all corrupt! |
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Post by Fairlyoddparent on Feb 15, 2017 13:11:47 GMT
Yeah, must of us can't even read.  |
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Feb 15, 2017 13:17:14 GMT
Why would any. single. person. on. this. board. be okay with Trump's future National Security Advisor telling the Russians not to worry about sanctions for them tampering with our elections because Trump would dismiss them all? What is the possible defense? What? This is not offered as a defense, but... A lot of people in this country likely don't believe that any of this will have any bearing on their day-to-day life. They aren't going to be spied on, they have nothing to lose in terms of assets because they live paycheck to paycheck, if Russia decides to full on invade one of the former Soviet states and the US basically lets them, what does it matter to them, it's halfway around the world. It's not like their kids are going to be sent off to fight for Ukraine or wherever. If countries in Asia build up their military, then good, they can take care of North Korea and we don't have to. Basically, they have no skin in the game and much more immediate things to worry about closer to home. Most of us under the age of 65 (those who experienced Vietnam first hand) have no experiences with the heavy loss of life war can bring. Most of us under the age of 90 have no experience with the rationing and an entire nation being directed to a war effort like WWII (and the massive loss of life). The Cold War is decades past now, and turned out to be from a day-to-day US life perspective a lot of smoke, and no fire. So that's the worst that can happen, right? To us devastation is such an abstract concept, and easy to look around all our modern conveniences and luxury that the idea that it could all disappear...complete and utter nonsense. That happens in other, less civilized, parts of the world, it doesn't happen here. If you believe that this has the potential to be prelude to the next world war, and that we no longer have the protection of geography (this started with hacking, what else do we have that can be hacked), the idea of a foreign government as powerful as Russia having the ability to manipulate the "leader of the free world," gives them access to our defense capabilities, our intelligence, our economy, our infrastructure, our everything. And no matter your political affiliation that should scare the crap out of you. If you believe, all of this means the stock market may wobble around a bit, and you or your family members lose their job again, like every other time rich people play with fire, what difference does it make if it's Russia pulling strings or not? But I think the answer to why don't more people care...because they can't see the impact on their life. This is a really good point. I've always been that person you describe, politics was something half a country away. In some ways it still is. But now I'm paying attention. Back in the fall I turned the tv to Fox News just to see what they were saying. It was a totally different world. |
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,984
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Post by Sarah*H on Feb 15, 2017 13:23:30 GMT
You know what, if it doesn't describe you, don't take offense. If YOU'RE paying attention, I'm not talking about you. But I'm also no longer going to pussyfoot around about the abject ignorance of a good number of his supporters. Pretending otherwise isn't going to help your side OR mine.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
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Post by trollie on Feb 15, 2017 13:31:49 GMT
It sounds like a bad movie, like the one Sean Spicer was in: SaveSaveExcuse me. I quite enjoyed that movie.  |
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,475
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Post by casii on Feb 15, 2017 13:42:17 GMT
I feel that it's common sense to conclude that this goes all the way to the top. There is no reason for Flynn or aides to be calling to just shoot the breeze. There is no reason that Flynn should've felt he could reassure the Russians not to worry about sanctions unless he was instructed to do so.
I checked some of my most ardent Trump supporting friends & family and their social media is still focused on the Muslim ban with memes of things such as Cowboys vs Muslims, gun toting veterans ready to take on terrorists, etc. Because yeah, the imaginary Muslim terrorists are going to come their 20 acre stronghold and want to turn their rancher into a jihadist training camp (sarcasm). Not any mention of Flynn or concerns of Russia.
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Post by elaine on Feb 15, 2017 13:51:05 GMT
I feel that it's common sense to conclude that this goes all the way to the top. There is no reason for Flynn or aides to be calling to just shoot the breeze. There is no reason that Flynn should've felt he could reassure the Russians not to worry about sanctions unless he was instructed to do so. I checked some of my most ardent Trump supporting friends & family and their social media is still focused on the Muslim ban with memes of things such as Cowboys vs Muslims, gun toting veterans ready to take on terrorists, etc. Because yeah, the imaginary Muslim terrorists are going to come their 20 acre stronghold and want to turn their rancher into a jihadist training camp (sarcasm). Not any mention of Flynn or concerns of Russia. This describes my family in WV. |
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Post by Merge on Feb 15, 2017 14:04:32 GMT
You know what, if it doesn't describe you, don't take offense. If YOU'RE paying attention, I'm not talking about you. But I'm also no longer going to pussyfoot around about the abject ignorance of a good number of his supporters. Pretending otherwise isn't going to help your side OR mine. Carefully orchestrated ignorance via propaganda. I've been comparing the front pages of mainstream vs. conservative news websites each time one of these stories breaks. Yesterday, NYT and WaPo had full coverage of the scandal. Fox had a tiny sideline about Trump's anger about the "leaks." (This morning they have more coverage, but it is much more about making Flynn the scapegoat and keeping Trump clean.) Breitbart last night had nothing about any of it. If you were reading Fox and Breitbart last night, or if those are the news stories that pop up most in your FB feed, you would have no idea that any of this was going on or would have no idea the scope and magnitude of it. And this morning Fox is promoting Trump's tweet that the intel community is leaking info to the "failing" NYT and WaPo, because of course they all have to de-legitimize any outlet giving complete and accurate coverage, in case someone actually wanders away from the propaganda sites. You would think NYT and Fox readers have been living in parallel universes these last three weeks, honestly. |
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
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Post by LeaP on Feb 15, 2017 14:16:15 GMT
It sounds like a bad movie, like the one Sean Spicer was in: Excuse me. I quite enjoyed that movie. I liked it too and Melissa McCarthy fills me with admiration. I meant the mole plot of real life would seem like a stretch in a movie. |
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Post by Merge on Feb 15, 2017 14:17:17 GMT
Oh and just for fun, I went and pulled up the stock price history for the NYT - if you look at the last year, it appears that Trump's election has been great for NYT stock. Not so much with the "failing," Mr. Trump. Could it be that people are seeking out fact-based reporting to keep tabs on you? NYT climbed 20% following the election, huge increase in subscriptionsAnd of course WaPo has been very successful the past year, and its parent company's stock is way up, too. WaPo adding more than 60 journalistsI think the only thing "failing" is Mr. Trump's ability to tell truth from fiction. But we already knew that. |
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Post by Fairlyoddparent on Feb 15, 2017 14:21:15 GMT
You know what, if it doesn't describe you, don't take offense. If YOU'RE paying attention, I'm not talking about you. But I'm also no longer going to pussyfoot around about the abject ignorance of a good number of his supporters. Pretending otherwise isn't going to help your side OR mine. I don't expect for you to "pussyfoot" around. And, trust me, I'm not offended by your statement because I think it's arrogant. If people don't believe the way you believe then you think they're less knowledgeable than you are. I can disagree with you but also appreciate that you have given it an intelligent thought. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 15, 2017 14:24:02 GMT
I'm afraid that none of this matters to most of the Republicans and all of Trump supporters. I'm pretty sure nothing will come of this. It was all known before the election but they still voted for him. Right? Wasn't the question of why trumps campaign met with Russians part of the letter that some of the electoral college wrote prior to their vote? |
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Post by Merge on Feb 15, 2017 14:26:34 GMT
You know what, if it doesn't describe you, don't take offense. If YOU'RE paying attention, I'm not talking about you. But I'm also no longer going to pussyfoot around about the abject ignorance of a good number of his supporters. Pretending otherwise isn't going to help your side OR mine. I don't expect for you to "pussyfoot" around. And, trust me, I'm not offended by your statement because I think it's arrogant. If people don't believe the way you believe then you think they're less knowledgeable than you are. I can disagree with you but also appreciate that you have given it an intelligent thought. Are you sure you can read? Because she didn't say that or anything like it. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Feb 15, 2017 14:54:19 GMT
I feel that it's common sense to conclude that this goes all the way to the top. There is no reason for Flynn or aides to be calling to just shoot the breeze. There is no reason that Flynn should've felt he could reassure the Russians not to worry about sanctions unless he was instructed to do so. I checked some of my most ardent Trump supporting friends & family and their social media is still focused on the Muslim ban with memes of things such as Cowboys vs Muslims, gun toting veterans ready to take on terrorists, etc. Because yeah, the imaginary Muslim terrorists are going to come their 20 acre stronghold and want to turn their rancher into a jihadist training camp (sarcasm). Not any mention of Flynn or concerns of Russia. ^^^ THIS. Flynn is retired military; he would have KNOWN BETTER than to go calling on Russians unless instructed to do so by someone. I truly believe this is all on Donald Trump; I believe he really thought the 'rules' of politicians didn't apply to him, and that he was doing things the way a businessman would do them-- business people feel out their contacts before making a deal, etc. And now that he's in office, he's found out that politics ARE actually different (in some ways) than business. This morning on Morning Edition, Steve Inskeep said it-- "by not investigating the Russian connection, it looks like Republicans are putting party over country." Of course, Rand Paul said, "Oh, no... not really" and tried to backpedal-- but it really does look like that. |
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(a girl can dream!)
