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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 23:25:32 GMT
I understand this and the commitment to raising a child in a church. Just curious if you'd continue taking the child to the church they were baptized in if you as the parent changed denominations. It wouldn't happen with me though Katy because I can't envisage me ever changing denominations. I committed myself to the doctrine of the Anglican church when I chose to be confirmed there. I wouldn't have taken confirmation otherwise. It's not a matter of which particular church you attend. I could change the church I attend but if I ever did I would still attend another Anglican church. The Mom in this particular thread hasn't changed denominations and she obviously wants to honour her commitment. The fact that the Dad has remarried is irrelevant at this point and doesn't absolve him to the promises he must have agreed to at the time of the child's baptism. It would be interesting to know how old the child is though. Would you be happy if you were in the same position as her and have your child visit a Catholic church ( I'm guessing you're not Catholic) every Sunday with a step-mother? ETA - one more thing it's not a matter of raising a child in a church. It's raising a child in a particular doctrine i.e the Catholic doctrine in this case.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 18, 2014 23:49:02 GMT
Sure, Dotty. Having changed denominations myself, I know it does happen. And if I changed denominations again, my children would attend the new church with me. I can empathize with the dad.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 0:01:19 GMT
Just as a matter of interest Katy what made you change? From which to which denomination?
Is the "sure" meaning that you would be happy for a step-mom to take your children to a Catholic Church every Sunday?
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 19, 2014 1:50:49 GMT
Just as a matter of interest Katy what made you change? From which to which denomination? Is the "sure" meaning that you would be happy for a step-mom to take your children to a Catholic Church every Sunday? I changed because I had a change in my personal theological journey brought me to reject some things that were taught in my former denomination and embraced a version of the faith that focused less on man-made rules and more on an individual relationship with my Savior. Yes, I would be okay with my child attending Catholic church if dad was going along as a family. While I disagree with some theological teachings, I believe the heart of the faith is the same- the belief in Jesus as the crucified and resurrected Son of God and His outpouring of love on humanity. I already deal with members of extended family mentioning other theological beliefs to my child and I know how to have a discussion with him about how that compares with what we know from Scripture and why some people choose to believe it and others do not. I'm not scared my son will "turn catholic"- I just want him to grow up to have his own relationship with his Savior regardless of which house of worship he sits in on the weekend. What would be worse to me is a step-mom who tried to forbid my child from attending church at all.
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Post by Kelpea on Aug 19, 2014 3:42:07 GMT
Dottyscrapper nailed it as to the decisions made at a child's birth regarding Catholocism (on page 5). At a Catholic christening, we the parents (as well as the Godparents, too) take the commitment of raising our children as true Catholics very seriously. Leaving the Church is a huuuuuge deal and not one to be taken lightly. It doesn't matter if the parents are divorced: the child is still supposed to be raised as a Catholic.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 19, 2014 4:27:35 GMT
Katycupcake said:
I have a hard time believing that if you're committed to a particular Christian faith that you'd be cool with your child attending Catholic services every week with his dad. You may not be 'scared' that your child would 'turn Catholic' but seriously, what would you expect from a child, and the Church? Your son would be going to Sunday School, learning about the Saints, memorizing the Hail Mary, genuflecting....and when he comes back to you Sunday evening you 'know' how to have a discussion with him about those things? What are you going to do, tell him that part of the faith is to be ignored and he should only listen to the part about Jesus loving everyone? You give your child to Catholic Church every Sunday and he's going to be asking you about his first communion because that's what all those other little Catholic boys and girls he's spending Sunday morning with are preparing for. You'd end up with either a Catholic kid, or a serious confused one who didn't want anything to do with religion.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 19, 2014 4:55:20 GMT
This whole discussion reminds me of the song by the Irish Rovers about Catholics and Protestants...
Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen. My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.
My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he. My mother was a Catholic girl, from county Cork was she. They were married in two churches, lived happily enough, Until the day that I was born and things got rather tough.
Baptized by Father Riley, I was rushed away by car, To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star. I was christened "David Anthony," but still, inspite of that, To me father, I was William, while my mother called me Pat.
With Mother every Sunday, to Mass I'd proudly stroll. Then after that, the Orange lodge would try to save my soul. For both sides tried to claim me, but i was smart because I'd play the flute or play the harp, depending where I was.
One day me Ma's relations came round to visit me. Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea. We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight. And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.
My parents never could agree about my type of school. My learning was all done at home, that's why I'm such a fool. They've both passed on, God rest 'em, but left me caught between That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green.
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Post by Skypea on Aug 19, 2014 8:54:36 GMT
I have a hard time believing that if you're committed to a particular Christian faith that you'd be cool with your child attending Catholic services every week with his dad. You may not be 'scared' that your child would 'turn Catholic' but seriously, what would you expect from a child, and the Church? Your son would be going to Sunday School, learning about the Saints, memorizing the Hail Mary, genuflecting....and when he comes back to you Sunday evening you 'know' how to have a discussion with him about those things? What are you going to do, tell him that part of the faith is to be ignored and he should only listen to the part about Jesus loving everyone? You give your child to Catholic Church every Sunday and he's going to be asking you about his first communion because that's what all those other little Catholic boys and girls he's spending Sunday morning with are preparing for. You'd end up with either a Catholic kid, or a serious confused one who didn't want anything to do with religion. Mass doesn't teach one about the saints (at least very little), or to memorize the HM. If he is sitting in a pew with his dad why would he be conversing with other little kids? (they don't run around having free time). It's an hour max - mostly being quiet and still. Whatever 'he' heard that isn't in alignment with my beliefs, I would have no problem explaining. From what I read of Katy's post, I don't think she would either.
I went to Catholic schools (and Mass every school day) but by jr-hi I already knew enough to know that a lot of what I was being taught wasn't true. Only 1 of 5 of those in our immediate family remained Catholic.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 19, 2014 12:08:03 GMT
I didn't say Mass taught those things, I said Sunday School did, where he would be with a bunch of other little kids. I don't care what faith it is, if you're sending your child to Church/Sunday School every Sunday the Church IS going to impart their views, that's their job, and as you well know, Catholics take that stuff seriously. However, in this particular case, how would the mother know what the child was being taught unless she were there? I'd have difficulty explaining to my child the difference between what he/she were being taught at a non-Catholic Church. I haven't been to enough of them to know what their views are, but take something simple....'hey mom, how come we have to kneel down when we pray? We don't have to at dad's church and I don't wanna kneel down any more. I like his church better'.
I don't see any problem exposing an older child to a different faith, but not a young one. I think it's ludicrous to imagine anyone can tell a young child, that attending two different faith based churches is OK, and expect them not to make their own decisions...based on deeply religious concepts like Church A has donuts after services, or they like the kids there better. If you believe in the way your faith teaches their religion, and that's what you believe to be the 'truth', then why would you want to go through the mess of confusing your child? Why would you tell a child that what they heard at dad's church wasn't what he/she is supposed to believe? Why would you even want to take a child, of another faith, to church with you if it wasn't to teach them the tenants of faith of the religion you practice?
Katy said she had dealt with other family members 'mentioning' a different faith to her child/ren, but that's a whole different thing than taking a child to church every Sunday and then sending him home for bio-mom to explain her religion to him. If the dad and stepmom in this thread aren't prepared to teach the child that their faith is the right one, then they are either not believers themselves, or they get some perverse kick out of confusing the child. Going to church isn't like saying you want to take the child to a family dinner. My Catholic kids have gone to other faith churches for special events...Christmas pageant, the baptism of a friend's child, a wedding, but not to sit through the religious service every Sunday, and the Catholic mother we're talking about in this thread has every right to object to her Catholic child being consistently exposed to another religion. As someone said early....that's a hill I'd die on.
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Post by stampbooker on Aug 19, 2014 13:04:35 GMT
I didn't say Mass taught those things, I said Sunday School did, where he would be with a bunch of other little kids. I don't care what faith it is, if you're sending your child to Church/Sunday School every Sunday the Church IS going to impart their views, that's their job, and as you well know, Catholics take that stuff seriously. However, in this particular case, how would the mother know what the child was being taught unless she were there? I'd have difficulty explaining to my child the difference between what he/she were being taught at a non-Catholic Church. I think you are seriously over estimating how much a young child pays attention to and absorbs during church/Sunday school. Most of them are simply trying not to die of boredom. The majority of a child's understanding of faith is learned at home. So if step-mom is committed to her faith, it is more likely her teachings and actions at home will affect the child than simply attending church services.
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 19, 2014 13:23:02 GMT
I didn't say Mass taught those things, I said Sunday School did, where he would be with a bunch of other little kids. I don't care what faith it is, if you're sending your child to Church/Sunday School every Sunday the Church IS going to impart their views, that's their job, and as you well know, Catholics take that stuff seriously. However, in this particular case, how would the mother know what the child was being taught unless she were there? I'd have difficulty explaining to my child the difference between what he/she were being taught at a non-Catholic Church. I think you are seriously over estimating how much a young child pays attention to and absorbs during church/Sunday school. Most of them are simply trying not to die of boredom. The majority of a child's understanding of faith is learned at home. So if step-mom is committed to her faith, it is more likely her teachings and actions at home will affect the child than simply attending church services. I agree with I-95, about both worship service and Sunday school. I think that children do indeed absorb a lot from simply attending. They may not be paying attention in the sense of being able to give a synopsis of the sermon but they learn a lot. For instance, I would not want my Presbyterian child to learn to genuflect before entering the pew because that is not something we believe in. The child may not understand the theology behind why Catholics genuflect but they surely will pick up the actions. On the surface this might seem unimportant (as a difference) but then the child comes back to the other parent and asks why do they do this at one church and not at another. We can explain it, of course, but then -- especially in a situation where the parents are divorced -- you run the risk of one way as "right" and the other as "wrong". I also would not want my Presbyterian child to see only male ministers, because I support the ordination of women. In fact, when my Catholic dh stopped attending church I decided to go back to my roots as a Presbyterian and took my dd with me (with dh's blessing...he doesn't care about church at all anymore). The first Sunday she saw the minister preach she said "Oh Mommy, I didn't know a lady could be a priest when she grew up!" lol. (she was 7). And most important to me, theologically, is communion. Again, although the child will not understand the theology they will absorb the "message". And for me it is absolutely essential to belong to a church with an open communion table. The Catholic church has closed communion. And of course, everything I just mentioned might work in reverse. The Catholic parent may not want their child to sit in the Presbyterian pews and absorb the facts of the "loose" come-and-go and you please/no genuflecting, and the woman minister (although I know plenty of Catholics who would love to see women ordained as priests), and the invitation that "all are welcome to this table." Religion, politics, and money. The three things that the priest who did our pre-marriage session told us cause the most problems in a marriage. lol. Thankfully for me and dh he doesn't care about church now. And we are both the same political party. And we are both basically "risk averse" (according to our financial planner) so we don't clash about spending. eta: I should also add that I taught 1st grade CCD for three years and I would not have wanted my 1st grade Presbyterian child regularly attending those classes. (although I was a good teacher ) The curriculum had a lot of emphasis on learning Catholic prayers, and getting ready for first penance and first communion.
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Post by Basket1lady on Aug 19, 2014 14:28:10 GMT
My kids could make the sign of the cross by the time they were 2. They knew the Gloria and the Our Father by the time they were 4. I couldn't tell you when they had the Hail Mary memorized, but they knew it by 1st grade (6). We do say the HM during mass at certain times of the year. We have three readings every mass, in which the saints are almost always mentioned, Much of the bible was written by the disciples, who were saints. Children socialize with their parent's friend's children, in the nursery, during CCD, over donuts after church, etc.
It's great to wish that we were all one big happy family all worshiping God, and that one person attended parochial school and didn't "turn", so no one else would. But the facts don't support that. We pray in church every week that the people of the world all will come to one faith. But I'm pretty sure that the intention is that we will all come to one "mostly Catholic" faith. It's fine to say that you would be fine with whatever church your child attends, but the mother of the child in question doesn't agree. And it seems that most of the Catholics responding here agree with the mother.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 19, 2014 15:35:59 GMT
Monklady said:
lol. That's precious! I knew my DD was absorbing stuff when she couldn't find her lunchbox one morning and asked if she prayed to St. Anthony did I think he'd show her where it was...she was 6 or 7.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 19, 2014 16:58:37 GMT
Katycupcake said: I have a hard time believing that if you're committed to a particular Christian faith that you'd be cool with your child attending Catholic services every week with his dad. You may not be 'scared' that your child would 'turn Catholic' but seriously, what would you expect from a child, and the Church? Your son would be going to Sunday School, learning about the Saints, memorizing the Hail Mary, genuflecting....and when he comes back to you Sunday evening you 'know' how to have a discussion with him about those things? What are you going to do, tell him that part of the faith is to be ignored and he should only listen to the part about Jesus loving everyone? You give your child to Catholic Church every Sunday and he's going to be asking you about his first communion because that's what all those other little Catholic boys and girls he's spending Sunday morning with are preparing for. You'd end up with either a Catholic kid, or a serious confused one who didn't want anything to do with religion. And none of those practices would bother me if my child embraced them. I find many of them completely unnecessary but not a hinderance to Salvation. I'm not scared of Catholicism. I would encourage my child to go to the classes, ask questions, etc. If he wanted a first communion I'd throw him one gladly celebrate with him. (I had him baptized as an infant for my extended family's sake and we dedicated him in our church for OUR sake. He does not attend the church he was baptized in but the act was important to our family and so we arranged it.) If for some reason my husband and I split and he became Catholic I'd also make sure that I took my son to the midweek service at my church. I believe that God's word never returns void and hearing from a priest, sunday school teacher, catechism teacher, parent, or pastor will provide my child with a stronger faith as long as I don't try to poison my kid against his father's church and vice versa.
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Aug 19, 2014 17:05:32 GMT
It is truly incomprehensible to me that so many people are terrified of children hearing a view that doesn't 100% line up with their own. I grew up United Methodist, and as part of my confirmation classes, we went to visit other denominational churches' services! I guess my church thought that before we committed to something, we should know the other views. When I was in middle school, our church's youth group was virtually nonexistent, so I and half a dozen or more of my friends (all families members of the same UMC) went to the youth group at a Baptist church that had a great youth program. We were always made welcome there, and not pressured to switch churches. We weren't shamed by our UMC for going elsewhere, either. I know there are differences between the Catholic church and other Christian denominations, but I can't imagine being so threatened by my child being exposed to more than one view. Sure, there'd likely be questions to answer, but isn't faith *deciding* what we believe rather than just going along with the only view you've ever known? Isn't one's faith that much more precious having chosen it rather than just not having left what one was already immersed in? Seeking the answers to questions is part of life, in religion as well as the rest. Although I'm not likely to ever become Catholic, I'd have no trouble with my Daughter going to mass with a friend or something. We're very involved with several things that are very dominated by active and cultural Catholics, and our non-Catholic status hasn't been an issue at all. We ask respectful questions when we have them, and they're answered graciously in return. 6yo DD has had some questions about various things that come up in that context, and we simply reply with a "some people believe that . . .." or "I don't know, but let's ask Friend A next time we talk to her" and it's totally fine - no worries or confusion. I suppose if more people could take the viewpoint that their way is *A* right way, rather than *THE* right way, then it wouldn't be so necessary to damn other groups. Also, FWIW, I would be perfectly fine with DD learning about other mainstream (non-extremist) religions or attending services - Judaism, Hindu, Buddhist - whatever you've got. I would draw the line at attending snake handling services, KKK rallies, etc.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 19, 2014 17:06:03 GMT
I didn't say Mass taught those things, I said Sunday School did, where he would be with a bunch of other little kids. I don't care what faith it is, if you're sending your child to Church/Sunday School every Sunday the Church IS going to impart their views, that's their job, and as you well know, Catholics take that stuff seriously. However, in this particular case, how would the mother know what the child was being taught unless she were there? I'd have difficulty explaining to my child the difference between what he/she were being taught at a non-Catholic Church. I think you are seriously over estimating how much a young child pays attention to and absorbs during church/Sunday school. Most of them are simply trying not to die of boredom. The majority of a child's understanding of faith is learned at home. So if step-mom is committed to her faith, it is more likely her teachings and actions at home will affect the child than simply attending church services. I think you're seriously underestimating children. They absorb things like sponges even when they appear board on the outside. But I do agree that the teachings that happen in the home- both with mom and step-mom is incredibly powerful. One thing that was non-negotiable when my husband and I were looking for a church to bring our child to- a very strong ministry for children through young adults. We have both witnessed what happens to the youth of the church when the church doesn't invest in them and make them priority.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 19, 2014 17:15:11 GMT
When you and your husband accepted the Sacrament of Baptism in the Catholic Church on behalf of your child, along with his godparents you made a commitment to raise the child as a Catholic.
If you had no intention to raise your child as a Catholic, you should not have had him baptised. I feel you took this sacred vow too lightly - "we just did it to make extended family happy", full well knowing we would "dedicate" him to another church.
You talk about the First Holy Communion like it was no big deal, what do you mean I'd throw him one?
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 19, 2014 17:19:04 GMT
When you and your husband accepted the Sacrament of Baptism in the Catholic Church on behalf of your child, along with his godparents you made a commitment to raise the child as a Catholic. If you had no intention to raise your child as a Catholic, you should not have had him baptised. I feel you took this sacred vow too lightly - "we just did it to make extended family happy", full well knowing we would "dedicate" him to another church. You talk about the First Holy Communion like it was no big deal, what do you mean I'd throw him one? Chill out. You are assuming we baptized our son in a Catholic church. That isn't the case- nor would they have allowed it. The baptism was performed by a family member who is also a Pastor.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Aug 19, 2014 17:20:38 GMT
I think this is a tough subject. My ex-H would be upset if I decided to bring Ali to a Southern Baptist church, but I do feel that it is within my right as a parent to do so if that it where I decided to attend. Legally, our divorce papers don't address the subject of religion. The vow I took during her Baptism commits to "seeing that the child you present is brought up in the Christian faith and life," so I didn't promise to stick to a denomination, but even if I had, I think I would consider my obligation to be to stick to Christianity, even if that wasn't what the church asked me to promise. I think you are seriously over estimating how much a young child pays attention to and absorbs during church/Sunday school. Most of them are simply trying not to die of boredom. The majority of a child's understanding of faith is learned at home. So if step-mom is committed to her faith, it is more likely her teachings and actions at home will affect the child than simply attending church services. While I agree that the majority of a child's faith is absorbed at home, kids are capable of really deep stuff, religiously speaking. I am Episcopalian, but the Sunday School program our church uses - Catechesis of the Good Shepherd - engages the children; I see them bring back the lessons learned from week to week and year to year. I trained to be a Catechist along side my Catholic peers, and I learned more about the church, the church year, the Eucharist, the history of the church, etc. while I trained for the first level of this program than I did in the adult classes I took when joining the church. I believe the child is capable of learning and understanding a lot, and that education does often take place during the Sunday School hour. For example, most of our 3-5 year olds can tell you the names and purposes of all of the things used at the altar during the Eucharist better than mom and dad, and they can tell you things like the fact that and the reason why the priest pours a drop of water in with the wine during Eucharist. They have at least learned the concept of transsubstantiation (break/wine becoming body/blood) or consubstantiation (bread/wine taken WITH the body/blood - no transformation), depending on the denomination. Those are deep concepts, and they are talked about with kids of very young ages in this program. FWIW, that isn't all that is taught in those classes - that age group focuses on The Good Shepherd's love for his sheep. For 3 year olds, it is a cute story about sheep, but by 5, the kids get that they are the sheep. By 1st-3rd grade in this program, kids are learning about sin and reconciliation.
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Post by Basket1lady on Aug 19, 2014 17:33:00 GMT
First Holy Communion isn't a party. It's two years of Faith Formation classes *outside* of mass (sort of like Sunday School, but often it's on a week night.) The children celebrate their first rite of reconciliation, and they actively prepare for the reception of the Holy Eucharist. I don't mean to be scornful, but it isn't something that is just done on a whim.
Does dedicate mean the same thing as baptize? Because in the Catholic faith, you aren't "re"baptized. Once is all that is necessary. I'm not sure that these are the same things, but I agree with BackToPeality. When you agreed to have your child baptized in the Catholic church, you agreed to raise that child Catholic. You should not have agreed to it if you didn't believe in it. But if the child was indeed baptized in a Catholic church, the child is now Catholic in the eyes of The Church.
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 19, 2014 17:36:38 GMT
It is truly incomprehensible to me that so many people are terrified of children hearing a view that doesn't 100% line up with their own. I grew up United Methodist, and as part of my confirmation classes, we went to visit other denominational churches' services! I guess my church thought that before we committed to something, we should know the other views. When I was in middle school, our church's youth group was virtually nonexistent, so I and half a dozen or more of my friends (all families members of the same UMC) went to the youth group at a Baptist church that had a great youth program. We were always made welcome there, and not pressured to switch churches. We weren't shamed by our UMC for going elsewhere, either. I know there are differences between the Catholic church and other Christian denominations, but I can't imagine being so threatened by my child being exposed to more than one view. Sure, there'd likely be questions to answer, but isn't faith *deciding* what we believe rather than just going along with the only view you've ever known? Isn't one's faith that much more precious having chosen it rather than just not having left what one was already immersed in? Seeking the answers to questions is part of life, in religion as well as the rest. Although I'm not likely to ever become Catholic, I'd have no trouble with my Daughter going to mass with a friend or something. We're very involved with several things that are very dominated by active and cultural Catholics, and our non-Catholic status hasn't been an issue at all. We ask respectful questions when we have them, and they're answered graciously in return. 6yo DD has had some questions about various things that come up in that context, and we simply reply with a "some people believe that . . .." or "I don't know, but let's ask Friend A next time we talk to her" and it's totally fine - no worries or confusion. I suppose if more people could take the viewpoint that their way is *A* right way, rather than *THE* right way, then it wouldn't be so necessary to damn other groups. Also, FWIW, I would be perfectly fine with DD learning about other mainstream (non-extremist) religions or attending services - Judaism, Hindu, Buddhist - whatever you've got. I would draw the line at attending snake handling services, KKK rallies, etc. Since I'm one of those who would not want my child regularly attending a Catholic church for Mass and CCD classes, I'll assume that I'm included in your broad brush of those of us who are "terrified" of our children learning about something other than our own tradition. lol. You said you'd have no trouble with your dd "going to mass with a friend or something". And neither would I. My dd goes to Mass about once a month when she's away at school because she goes with a friend. That friend comes to the local Presbyterian church with my dd also about once a month. If my dd ever wanted to become Catholic (or any other Christian denomination) or even Jewish or Buddhist or whatever...well she's an adult and can decide for herself. Of course I'd be disappointed if she chose to renounce her Christian beliefs, because that's important to me. But, she's an adult. She has attended Mass as a young child, after we left the Catholic church and went back to my Presbyterian roots. That was fine, I just coached her a bit on what to do and reminded her not to go up to receive communion (because I didn't want her to offend anyone since the family she was with knew she wasn't Catholic). (personally I wouldn't mind at all if she received communion there, but that's probably a whole other thread, lol) I'd feel the same about attending youth group at another church, because by definition "youth group" usually means teens. Teens are old enough to think for themselves, and in our pluralistic society they really do need to understand about other religions, other political beliefs, other cultures... I feel fortunate to live in the area that I do where we have great diversity.
However, in this thread we're talking about young children. (although, did the OP ever say how old the kid in question is?.. I'll have to go back and look, but I think we've been assuming he's young.) Having my 8-year-old "attend Mass with a friend" or "go to Shabbat services with a friend" or whatever would be a good thing. Having my 8-year-old *regularly* attend Mass and CCD would be another thing entirely. That's not theology I want her to learn. When she gets old enough to read and think it all through she can decide for herself how she views communion and which theology she believes in.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 19, 2014 17:54:36 GMT
Let us all acknowledge that the word 'terrified' is yours. I'm not 'terrified' of having my child exposed to another religion, but we're Catholics and that's the faith I want my children raised in. It's irrelevant to me whether you, or Katy, or Skypea don't have the same conviction. In this thread we're discussing a Catholic mother who doesn't want her child to go to a church of another faith ALMOST EVERY WEEKEND. The Catholics on this thread are simply saying, along with the bio-mother, it's OUR faith and that's what we want our children raised in. We would NOT be OK with our children going to a Methodist church, or a Southern Baptist one, or a Lutheran one. We want our children raised CATHOLIC. Y'all can send your children anywhere you want, because apparently the tenants of your faith are interchangeable with other Christian faiths. Ours are not. ETA: You may have missed the post where I said i was married to a Jew. My children have certainly been to Shabbat services, Bar/Bat Mitzvah ceremonies. Their two best friends, since they were 2 and 3 years old, are the Rabbi's two kids, but their religious upbringing has been Catholic. Katycupcake said You'd 'throw him a first communion' OMG!!! Alright, now we know you haven't got a clue what the Catholic religion is about....that's not a criticism, I doubt I know what your religion is about either, but that sentence does tell me that trying to explain what it is we feel so strongly about is like spitting in the wind. See, no Catholic would EVER baptize their child, then take them to another faith and have a dedication ceremony. In fact I have trouble wrapping my head around such a casual approach to faith. Of course you're not scared of Catholicism...first of all there's nothing to be scared of, and second, you know nothing about it so why would you have any fear of it? ETA: Actually, I'm curious about this baptism your child had. What Pastor, family member or not, takes baptism so lightly that he would perform a ceremony to commit a child to God, knowing it meant basically nothing to the parents....or is he a non-denominational, got called by God, but didn't do a degree in theology, or go to a divinity school? Or is that your faith...non-denominational Christian?
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 19, 2014 18:09:45 GMT
Katycupcake said You'd 'throw him a first communion' OMG!!! Alright, now we know you haven't got a clue what the Catholic religion is about....that's not a criticism, I doubt I know what your religion is about either, but that sentence does tell me that trying to explain what it is we feel so strongly about is like spitting in the wind. See, no Catholic would EVER baptize their child, then take them to another faith and have a dedication ceremony. In fact I have trouble wrapping my head around such a casual approach to faith. Of course you're not scared of Catholicism...first of all there's nothing to be scared of, and second, you know nothing about it so why would you have any fear of it? ETA: Actually, I'm curious about this baptism your child had. What Pastor, family member or not, takes baptism so lightly that he would perform a ceremony to commit a child to God, knowing it meant basically nothing to the parents....or is he a non-denominational, got called by God, but didn't do a degree in theology, or go to a divinity school? Or is that your faith...non-denominational Christian? Yeah, I think Katy believes that the first communion is just a big party. I mean, there is probably a party associated with it. At least there was when my ds received his. We had a brunch afterwards, ds and two friends who also had theirs that morning, plus families, and two other friends from school. But obviously -- to us anyway -- it's a celebration of what has just occurred in the life of this child, rather than just a party to "throw". And, as a pastor -- which I'm not, I'm a chaplain...but if I were -- I would not agree to baptize a child when the parents had no commitment to raising that child as a Christian (not necessarily Presbyterian). I have baptized newborns in the hospital who were not likely to live, or who were very seriously ill. In that case that's not the time to discuss theology. If the parents want the baby baptized we do. But otherwise no, there has to be some commitment on the parents' part.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 19, 2014 18:13:40 GMT
The baptism did not "mean nothing" to us as parents. We sat down with the child's sponsors (god-parents) and the pastor (an uncle) and talked about what this would mean to each of us involved. We didn't take it lightly and we do believe it is an important part of our commitment as a whole to bringing our child up in Christ. The pastor would like us to attend a church of his denomination (and more importantly his particular synod) but felt what was more important was our commitment to raising our son in a CHRISTIAN church to grow in CHRIST. There was nothing in the charge he gave us as parents that we could not fully embrace and commit to. It was what was best for our family situation.
And I should have phrased things a little better. I realize you don't just "throw a first communion party" and I'm sorry my statement came across as such. I have extended family that are both Catholic and Lutheran. I have attended churches under both teachings. I do know a First Communion does require preparation classes and sunday school. In the hypothetical situation of my child going to a Catholic church, I would be fine with my child going to the classes and taking first communion and I would help celebrate with him if that's what was important to him.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 19, 2014 18:19:14 GMT
would it matter to you if your child went to a Christian church vs. no church at all? My friend is recently married to a man with a child from a previous marriage. She wants the child to attend her Christian church, since they have the child every weekend. The mother of the child is furious, yet never takes the child when she does have him. I'm not catholic, so I would think some exposure is better than none. So would it matter to you if your child attended a Christian church? While it could be about the recent marriage, I was raised Catholic and back then, we were not to attend the services of a church that wasn't Catholic. I don't know whether they hold to that now or not, though.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 19, 2014 18:22:20 GMT
I think Katy did intend to raise her child in the Christian faith. Unless there were extenuating circumstances...like eminent death, I can't imagine having anyone but a Priest baptize my child, but Catholicism is not interchangeable with other faiths. Always learn something new from Pea discussions
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 19, 2014 18:39:49 GMT
I think Katy did intend to raise her child in the Christian faith. Unless there were extenuating circumstances...like eminent death, I can't imagine having anyone but a Priest baptize my child, but Catholicism is not interchangeable with other faiths. Always learn something new from Pea discussions FYI the Catholic church recognizes many other baptisms - any actually that use the trinity. I will also say that coming from an exceeding large Irish family with a Hispanic branch thrown in, I have attended at least a million baptisms and the vast majority of the parents are not nearly as committed as the peas on this thread. They may not intend to raise their child in a different faith, but being Catholic to them is absolutely as much about family and cultural tradition as their faith and beliefs - and for many lack thereof.
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Aug 19, 2014 18:42:18 GMT
I didn't say the tenets were interchangeable; I said I'm not worried about my child learning the tenets of other faiths as well as my own. I'd rather teach her HOW to think than WHAT she must think. Even at age 6, we're teaching her to critically evaluate information and see what conclusions she comes to. I don't think young children are incapable of sifting through what they hear and understanding differences.
If the mother's that concerned about her child's Catholic religious education, wouldn't it behoove her to see that the child gets some? It appears to me she's upset that the child's getting only another version of Christianity, but she's got only herself to blame if she's not taking the child for Catholic training when she has the chance (as the OP states). If she's not going to do it, it's hardly fair for her to want to restrain the father from raising HIS child in HIS faith.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 6:30:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 18:44:53 GMT
And none of those practices would bother me if my child embraced them. I find many of them completely unnecessary but not a hinderance to Salvation. I'm not scared of Catholicism. I would encourage my child to go to the classes, ask questions, etc. If he wanted a first communion I'd throw him one. (I had him baptized as an infant for my extended family's sake and we dedicated him in our church for OUR sake. He does not attend the church he was baptized in but the act was important to our family and so we arranged it.) If for some reason my husband and I split and he became Catholic I'd also make sure that I took my son to the midweek service at my church. I believe that God's word never returns void and hearing from a priest, sunday school teacher, catechism teacher, parent, or pastor will provide my child with a stronger faith as long as I don't try to poison my kid against his father's church and vice versa. Bold is mine. Katy do you realize how insulting that comment is about a first communion not only to Catholics but I also find that insulting. I'm sorry that you are so flippant about someone's First Communion. to some people it's a very serious commitment but obviously not to you, otherwise you wouldn't have worded it in the way you did. As for the baptism, I can assure you that some of us Catholic or non Catholic do not have their children baptized to appease their family or anyone else for that matter. And you dedicated him for YOUR sake. Wow! I'd really like to know which denomination of Christianity you believe in, I really would.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 19, 2014 19:00:58 GMT
Dotty, I did already clarify what I meant and that I misspoke and was sorry. I'm not trying to be flippant and I apologize for coming off that way. I take communion very seriously, but I also left a denomination that had closed communion because I believe Christ invited ALL to the table who are a part of the family of God. So while I am happy to celebrate a first communion, I myself will attend a church where everyone who believes is welcome to partake in the elements of Communion because it's a matter of heart and not man's laws that are important as we approach Christ that way.
I take my child's Christian upbringing very seriously as does his father. It was something we were 100% in agreement upon as we entered into the covenant of marriage and then parenthood. We come from different denominations and have chosen together a denomination that best reflects what we feel is Biblical. I agree with coaliesquirrel when she said:
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