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Post by pierogi on Aug 20, 2014 18:52:50 GMT
I know there is a video of the execution; I personally can't wrap my mind around why someone would watch it, although clearly some can and do. Even if I were made of that tough stuff, I wouldn't in this case. It's exactly what ISIS wants to happen: watch and fear. His sister has requested that nobody watch it, and that was enough for me as well. I can't imagine what the family is going through right now, and maybe not watching it gives back just a little bit of privacy to them.
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Post by PEArfect on Aug 20, 2014 19:41:50 GMT
My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of James Foley.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Aug 20, 2014 19:53:59 GMT
Wow, I'm kind of bothered by the UK outlawing videos like that. I'm a huge believer in witnessing atrocities, hard as it is. That law seems about as close to book burning as you can get. Geez...
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Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 20, 2014 20:29:56 GMT
My deepest sympathy for David Foley's family and friends.
I think it is interesting that Prime Minister Cameron ended his vacation to return to work because the ISIS terrorist had a British accent juxtaposed against President Obama who remains at the Vineyard playing golf.
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scrappinghappy
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“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
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Post by scrappinghappy on Aug 20, 2014 20:31:13 GMT
My deepest sympathies to James Foley's family. My heart is breaking for them. That's so sad, I can't believe it's not getting a lot of press. I mean he was in captivity for two years with no reminders in the news about him. There's nothing Obama can do, American doesn't negotiate with terrorists. If they knew where he was being held they would send in the Navy Seals as they've done for other hostages. It's getting a ton of press on CNN. I have it on in the background and it is getting a lot of attention. I am horrified. If I understood what they said, he was originally taken in Syria. Lots of coverage NOW but none before this horrific act.
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BarbaraUK
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 20, 2014 20:31:46 GMT
Wow, I'm kind of bothered by the UK outlawing videos like that. I'm a huge believer in witnessing atrocities, hard as it is. That law seems about as close to book burning as you can get. Geez... The following is the actual statement made. It was issued in conjunction with the following statement made by our Prime Minister: IS want this video to frighten the US and make them back off from the bombing and are also using it on social media to encourage others to join with them. We have a very valid and ongoing reason to have this as part of our Anti Terrorist laws as you would know if you knew more about the subject! We in the UK are all aware of the content of this video and I am honestly surprised that anyone would say that 'I'm a huge believer in witnessing atrocities' when talking about a video like that showing a sick and barbaric act perpetrated on an American citizen!
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by scrappinghappy on Aug 20, 2014 20:34:55 GMT
I didn't know or I forgot about him which is sad. I am very sorry for his family and their loss and the horrific way their loved one was murdered for show. That said, journalists are not trained in combat and are at risk when they are in volatile areas. While I think these stories need to be told, I'm not sure it is worth it. Oh I so disagree! While I'll certainly acknowledge that if it was my loved one, it would be so, so hard to think that it's worth it. But for the world as a whole, it's so vitally important that some people are willing to put their life on the line so that we know the true story. Otherwise, we are relying on hearsay and more often propaganda to know the truth. Syria is facing a humanitarian crisis that is unprecedented since WWII. So often in history, I think the outcome would be very, very different if it wasn't for the bravery of those who wanted to ensure that the true story was told. Bolding is mine but it seems that even with journalists there, the horrific stiff going on in Syria is just not getting out. Beheading little children then raping their mothers who'd just watched that. Hanging their fathers. Chaining their sisters and taking them as sex slaves OMG!!! Beyond horrifying yet that barely makes the news here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 21:03:21 GMT
Wow, I'm kind of bothered by the UK outlawing videos like that. I'm a huge believer in witnessing atrocities, hard as it is. That law seems about as close to book burning as you can get. Geez... You seem to get the wrong end of the stick as to the reasons for doing so Anna. It's nothing to do with the right to witness atrocities. Although I can't imagine any sane person wishing to view such a barbaric act. The reason for it is well documented from Counter Terrorists dept of many Governments, not just the UK, that the internet is a hive for extremist videos and " instructions" which help to radicalize impressionable young men .Terrorist propaganda online has a direct impact on the radicalization of individuals according to various intelligence gathering and many of these individuals will be or are already,home grown. Therefore, restricting the sharing of such videos and propaganda will hopefully lessen the risk of these impressionable individuals gaining access to such material as their inspiration and ideological reference point. Why would it bother you so much that a country that isn't your own would do everything in their power to keep its citizens safe? By referring to this law "as close to book burning as you can get" makes one assume that you're in agreement, for would be terrorists,wherever they may be, have access to the tools and instructions to carry out their atrocities unrestricted then.
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Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 20, 2014 21:06:25 GMT
I am watching CNN and Barbara Starr reporting from the Pentagon said the tape is being reviewed and questions asked including was the ISIS captor once at held Guantanamo
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 20, 2014 21:14:37 GMT
I am watching CNN and Barbara Starr reporting from the Pentagon said the tape is being reviewed and questions asked including was the ISIS captor once at held Guantanamo
Oh for heaven's sake. If it does turn out to be this way it will take a whole lot of self composure to not place partial responsibility on the administration that released the terrorists.
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azredhead
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Post by azredhead on Aug 20, 2014 21:55:27 GMT
It is just horrible and frightening!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 22:01:59 GMT
Wow, I'm kind of bothered by the UK outlawing videos like that. I'm a huge believer in witnessing atrocities, hard as it is. That law seems about as close to book burning as you can get. Geez... No one needs to witness a beheading. Not one person.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Aug 20, 2014 22:55:33 GMT
I think bearing witness to those who are victims of atrocities and NOT being frightened by it is important. And for the UK peas who prefer to have the government to decide what they should see, I couldn't want something less. I think that difference right there, is the difference between the US and Britain. While I have enjoyed many trips to England and love your country, I could not live like you do. It's just not for me. I prefer our freedoms of the press and speech.
As to whether you think it's something anyone should see I think it's important to see so that you can remember. Or is at least available to be seen by those who want too. It's easy to forget how bad something really is if it's sanitized and it's hidden. I think it's terribly important that it's not hidden and it's available to be seen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 22:57:24 GMT
I am watching CNN and Barbara Starr reporting from the Pentagon said the tape is being reviewed and questions asked including was the ISIS captor once at held Guantanamo
Oh for heaven's sake. If it does turn out to be this way it will take a whole lot of self composure to not place partial responsibility on the administration that released the terrorists.
You do understand the reason we have had to let some folks at Guantanamo go don't you? Its because we don't have enough evidence to try them in a court of law.
So what do you suggest be done? Hold them all at Guantanamo, without sufficient evidence, until they die?
And its not like the only folks that want to harm this country are at Guantanamo. I suspect the folks being held at Guantanamo represents a very small % of the terrorists who want to destroy this country.
There is a news story just breaking that earlier this summer we sent a team into Syria to try and rescue all the Americans being held by ISIS but when the team got there the hostages weren't there. There was a gun battle and we didn't lose anyone and only had one minor injury. They admit the intelligence they had was wrong but they tried and I'm glad they did.
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Post by gossamer on Aug 20, 2014 23:12:31 GMT
Sad that he lost his life, and sad for his family. But do we really know when he died? Could they have killed him a year ago, or 2 years ago, and just released the photos now?
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Post by pierogi on Aug 20, 2014 23:15:46 GMT
Since CNN is known for pulling evidence out of their rear ends, then walking it all back, I'm going to wait until there's something concrete tying the beheader to Gitmo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 23:34:29 GMT
I could not live like you do. It's just not for me. I prefer our freedoms of the press and speech. You have no more freedom than we have here. We have just as much freedom of speech and certainly freedom of the press. If you think otherwise you certainly don't know much about the UK. Live like we do? ?? It's not a matter of being frightened by it. It's the respect and dignity that you extend to the victim. No one with any shred of humanity would want to watch that video. We don't need an image to confirm what decapitated means. Well at least I don't neither would many others. As for this particular law. Mine and anyone else's freedom to live suppresses any terrorists freedom to access material over the internet to fulfill his or her desire to deny me that freedom.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 21, 2014 0:28:11 GMT
I am actually a bit on the fence about restricting the video. It's hard for me to overcome the emotional impact on Mr. Foley's family - I can't imagine living through their horror, and video evidence being widely disseminated is just really horrible. But I do think at times we need to pull the blinders off our civilized eyes and see true evil and barbarity for what it is - and not what we can imagine in our pretty, sterile world. I remember the first time I saw the mass graves and victims of the holocaust. While one could debate whether they deserved the lack of respect and dignity of seeing their naked bodies thrown in pits - I absolutely believe people needed to see the true horror of what happened.
I appreciate the experts' opinion on impressionable youth being radicalized by such videos - while it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around someone seeing it and thinking - yeah, I want to do that! But what about the impact on the vast majority of people? - would it change their complacency?
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BarbaraUK
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 21, 2014 0:29:55 GMT
I think bearing witness to those who are victims of atrocities and NOT being frightened by it is important. And for the UK peas who prefer to have the government to decide what they should see, I couldn't want something less. I think that difference right there, is the difference between the US and Britain. While I have enjoyed many trips to England and love your country, I could not live like you do. It's just not for me. I prefer our freedoms of the press and speech. As to whether you think it's something anyone should see I think it's important to see so that you can remember. Or is at least available to be seen by those who want too. It's easy to forget how bad something really is if it's sanitized and it's hidden. I think it's terribly important that it's not hidden and it's available to be seen. You are still missing the point - I really don't think you understand the situation here regarding our Anti-Terrorism laws and what that particular statement means. The operative word in the statement is 'might' and the warning fits with our present circumstances well considering the persons it is actually aimed at. The US has Anti-Terrorist laws also! I'm sorry, but I just do not see how you can possibly state that we in the UK do not have freedoms of the press and speech. We have treasured freedom of speech for hundreds of years and the British press certainly protect their freedom to publish anything without fear or favour. The government here does not decide what we can see or hear in any way shape or form in normal circumstances.....we do not live in a dictatorship! Access to this particular video has not been banned, restricted, blocked, outlawed.......whatever term you want to use. I'm pretty sure that quite a few people in this country, like the rest of the world, have viewed it already out of pure curiosity if nothing else. Also, the press and TV is reporting the atrocity and release of the online video. One of our radio news programmes broadcast the statement by the murderer early on the 20th August when the news was just breaking. That hardly constitutes no freedom for the media! You say you have 'enjoyed many trips to England, I could not live like you do'! To be honest, I don't think we are talking about the same country or even the same continent!!
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Post by gardengoddess on Aug 21, 2014 0:34:37 GMT
Obama isn't the only President who's negotiated in the past...Reagan and Carter come to mind, as well. And I'm pretty sure Obama would have sent in forces to have retrieved hostages; it's been done time and again during several presidencies. Yes, they have. President Carter negotiated for the release of the Iranian hostages in the late 70's and the Reagan Administration secretly sold arms to Iran to secure hostage releases.
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BarbaraUK
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 21, 2014 1:15:13 GMT
I am actually a bit on the fence about restricting the video. It's hard for me to overcome the emotional impact on Mr. Foley's family - I can't imagine living through their horror, and video evidence being widely disseminated is just really horrible. But I do think at times we need to pull the blinders off our civilized eyes and see true evil and barbarity for what it is - and not what we can imagine in our pretty, sterile world. I remember the first time I saw the mass graves and victims of the holocaust. While one could debate whether they deserved the lack of respect and dignity of seeing their naked bodies thrown in pits - I absolutely believe people needed to see the true horror of what happened. I appreciate the experts' opinion on impressionable youth being radicalized by such videos - while it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around someone seeing it and thinking - yeah, I want to do that! But what about the impact on the vast majority of people? - would it change their complacency? Has this video been shown in full on US TV news reports? I really don't think many people here in the UK are wearing blinders on their civilised eyes or are complacent, we see in depth reports every day of the awful things happening around the world - we have also seen the results of evil done in this country.....just one example of which is a busy Tube train and a bus blown apart by radicalised youths. So yes, seeing extremist videos just might have someone watching it and thinking 'yeah, I want to do that!', or something similar anyway. We also see plenty of documentary films on subjects like the Holocaust that show it all as it was, and films on WW2 and other modern and historical happenings that do exactly the same so there is plenty of exposure to this sort of thing. We know that ours isn't a sterile world......never has been and probably never will be! I not sure one can compare showing the horrors of the Holocaust and the beheading of this journalist as in people needing to see what happened. The Holocaust should be remembered as an ugly and evil happening so that, hopefully, it will prevent anything like that ever happening again anywhere. Watching a sick and barbaric act of a journalist being beheaded for political purposes surely doesn't come under the heading of needing to see the true horror of what happened?!
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 21, 2014 1:26:38 GMT
I am actually a bit on the fence about restricting the video. It's hard for me to overcome the emotional impact on Mr. Foley's family - I can't imagine living through their horror, and video evidence being widely disseminated is just really horrible. But I do think at times we need to pull the blinders off our civilized eyes and see true evil and barbarity for what it is - and not what we can imagine in our pretty, sterile world. I remember the first time I saw the mass graves and victims of the holocaust. While one could debate whether they deserved the lack of respect and dignity of seeing their naked bodies thrown in pits - I absolutely believe people needed to see the true horror of what happened. I appreciate the experts' opinion on impressionable youth being radicalized by such videos - while it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around someone seeing it and thinking - yeah, I want to do that! But what about the impact on the vast majority of people? - would it change their complacency? Has this video been shown in full on US TV news reports? I really don't think many people here in the UK are wearing blinders on their civilised eyes or are complacent, we see in depth reports every day of the awful things happening around the world - we have also seen the results of evil done in this country.....just one example of which is a busy Tube train and a bus blown apart by radicalised youths. So yes, seeing extremist videos just might have someone watching it and thinking 'yeah, I want to do that!', or something similar anyway. We also see plenty of documentary films on subjects like the Holocaust that show it all as it was, and films on WW2 and other modern and historical happenings that do exactly the same so there is plenty of exposure to this sort of thing. We know that ours isn't a sterile world......never has been and probably never will be! I not sure one can compare showing the horrors of the Holocaust and the beheading of this journalist as in people needing to see what happened. The Holocaust should be remembered as an ugly and evil happening so that, hopefully, it will prevent anything like that ever happening again anywhere. Watching a sick and barbaric act of a journalist being beheaded for political purposes surely doesn't come under the heading of needing to see the true horror of what happened?! Good lord - way to make a general post a personal assault of your country. No the US press is also not showing the video - which was actually the point of my post. We too live in a sterile world. And to be honest I actually do think that many of the sick and barbaric acts happening in Syria right now are impossible for most of us to imagine - and many, many would just as soon bury their head in the sand. I do see a level of complacency on what's happening here - perhaps you don't see that in the UK.
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BarbaraUK
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 21, 2014 1:46:31 GMT
I had no intention whatsoever of turning your post into a personal attack on my country! I was answering your post as it raised some interesting points, I live in the UK therefore I can only speak about the UK!
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 21, 2014 1:48:51 GMT
If I mistook your tone - I apologize. Your post seemed a hostile. That's always the danger of written versus spoken words.
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Post by annabella on Aug 21, 2014 2:31:36 GMT
My deepest sympathy for David Foley's family and friends. I think it is interesting that Prime Minister Cameron ended his vacation to return to work because the ISIS terrorist had a British accent juxtaposed against President Obama who remains at the Vineyard playing golf. Obama took a 40 hour break from his vacation in Martha's Vineyard to briefly return to DC. But honestly it doesn't matter where he is, he has meetings and makes decisions by phone. Congress in August is on vacation. The President should get a break in scenery as well. A break helps anyone's mental state back in the office. As far as James Wright Foley's executor having a British accent, after the British subway bombing I think we know there are terrorist cells in Britain. They may go to school in Britain but get indoctrinated in their religion and go off to terrorists camps abroad to train for jihad. That's what the Boston bomber did, he went back to a terrorist region of Russia and became radicalized right before he bombed the marathon.
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Post by 2peafaithful on Aug 21, 2014 2:34:42 GMT
I am so sickened by this. My heart is broken for his family and loved ones. I am so grieved and angry.
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Post by megop on Aug 21, 2014 2:49:55 GMT
Came across my heads up news feed today, that the US is considering sending more troops or "advisors" to Iraq. Don't know what will come of it.
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Post by lovetodigi on Aug 21, 2014 3:19:22 GMT
That's so sad, I can't believe it's not getting a lot of press. I mean he was in captivity for two years with no reminders in the news about him. There's nothing Obama can do, American doesn't negotiate with terrorists. If they knew where he was being held they would send in the Navy Seals as they've done for other hostages. Actually Obama has negotiated with Terrorists. Would he send in Special Forces if he knew where they held him? I'm not entirely convinced he would. Actually a rescue was attempted
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 21, 2014 4:15:43 GMT
I don't think our need to see atrocities trumps the privacy and dignity of the victim and his family.
Ironically, the US media have - for years - been criticized for their tendency to show very little, or sanitized, wartime footage, as compared to other countries. And we give pretty short shrift to coverage of genocide or atrocities in Third World countries; in fact, as entertainment news gains a bigger slice of the pie, news editors are limiting the amount of ANY kind of international news - not that we ever saw/read much in the first place. It doesn't sell commercials or ad space, simply because many Americans are not interested. (Many, not all.)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 10:12:50 GMT
I appreciate the experts' opinion on impressionable youth being radicalized by such videos - while it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around someone seeing it and thinking - yeah, I want to do that! But what about the impact on the vast majority of people? - would it change their complacency? The laws that we have in this country isn't really about this video though Darcy. Anyone can download this video if they wanted to. The statement made by the Commander of the Metropolitan Police that Anna*Banana referred to and chose to interpret its meaning by suggesting the UK is a dictatorship country, was a reminder that there are laws in this country that prohibits the downloading and sharing of indoctrination material. It's a subtle timed reminder to cover the possibility that some would go further than just viewing this video in their search for their ideology via the internet. I had to search for this and it is a study from 2007 by the NYPD but the basis of their findings is just as relevant now as it was then,maybe even more so.It explains the threat that the internet poses in the fight against terrorism. If anyone thinks that this doesn't happen they either living in a bubble or are very complacent about what's happening in the world today. Effective anti terrorist actions and laws are far better to be put in place before anything happens than after. Making it unlawful to download & share these sites is something that we ( general we) have to accept in this day and age unfortunately. That in no way infringes on our civil liberties or freedom of speech IMO. We are happy to accept and utilize modern technology but we also have to understand that it's also used to harm us. Taken from page 10 of the link here's the full PDF version
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