Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 10:32:11 GMT
My deepest sympathy for David Foley's family and friends. I think it is interesting that Prime Minister Cameron ended his vacation to return to work because the ISIS terrorist had a British accent juxtaposed against President Obama who remains at the Vineyard playing golf. As far as James Wright Foley's executor having a British accent, after the British subway bombing I think we know there are terrorist cells in Britain. They may go to school in Britain but get indoctrinated in their religion and go off to terrorists camps abroad to train for jihad. That's what the Boston bomber did, he went back to a terrorist region of Russia and became radicalized right before he bombed the marathon. You're right Annabella. They reckon there's at least 400/500 westerners fighting with IS. That number includes a variety of International individuals including Americans.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Aug 21, 2014 16:01:11 GMT
A dictatorship country? Oh geez, Dotty... You're being overly sensitive about what I said... You've taken a bunch of personal swipes. You're being sill now.
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Post by birukitty on Aug 21, 2014 20:25:26 GMT
I meant to write yesterday and I didn't get the time. I think I get where Annabelle is coming from.
We should witness this execution because this American journalist was innocent. He needs us to see the truth. We need to see with our own eyes this evil. This journalist was doing his job-a brave, daring job to bring the world images showing exactly what the condition are in this area. Without journalist (photographers and writers) we would be truly ignorant of what goes on in the rest of the world. These brave men and women risk their lives going to these places, doing their jobs so that we can learn the truth. The least we can do is be witnesses when they are murdered. To be there in spirit and let them know those evil men will not go unpunished.
By turning away and burying our heads in the sand we stand by and do nothing. Nothing is what allows evil to continue to grow and thrive. What is that quote? "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
That is my feeling. No matter how harsh, disgusting or terrible truth must be witnessed.
Debbie in MD.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 20:36:38 GMT
I meant to write yesterday and I didn't get the time. I think I get where Annabelle is coming from. We should witness this execution because this American journalist was innocent. He needs us to see the truth. We need to see with our own eyes this evil. This journalist was doing his job-a brave, daring job to bring the world images showing exactly what the condition are in this area. Without journalist (photographers and writers) we would be truly ignorant of what goes on in the rest of the world. These brave men and women risk their lives going to these places, doing their jobs so that we can learn the truth. The least we can do is be witnesses when they are murdered. To be there in spirit and let them know those evil men will not go unpunished. By turning away and burying our heads in the sand we stand by and do nothing. Nothing is what allows evil to continue to grow and thrive. What is that quote? "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" That is my feeling. No matter how harsh, disgusting or terrible truth must be witnessed. Debbie in MD. Me not watching it has NOTHING to do with burying my head in the sand. Burying my head in the sand would be not watching the news, etc. I don't need to physically see this video to know what happened nor does anyone else. And the family is asking people not to. I would hope others would respect their loved ones memory but I guess not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 20:52:53 GMT
I meant to write yesterday and I didn't get the time. I think I get where Annabelle is coming from. We should witness this execution because this American journalist was innocent. He needs us to see the truth. We need to see with our own eyes this evil. This journalist was doing his job-a brave, daring job to bring the world images showing exactly what the condition are in this area. Without journalist (photographers and writers) we would be truly ignorant of what goes on in the rest of the world. These brave men and women risk their lives going to these places, doing their jobs so that we can learn the truth. The least we can do is be witnesses when they are murdered. To be there in spirit and let them know those evil men will not go unpunished. By turning away and burying our heads in the sand we stand by and do nothing. Nothing is what allows evil to continue to grow and thrive. What is that quote? "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" That is my feeling. No matter how harsh, disgusting or terrible truth must be witnessed. Debbie in MD. I disagree that we should witness the execution. These pigs uploaded the video because they want people to watch for the shock value. They want the attention. I for one am not going to give it to them by watching the video.
I don't think any of us have a hard time visualizing how horrible his death was. No one should die like that. However every time someone watches that video these pigs win.
And by not watching the video does not means we have our heads in the sand or don't think these pigs shouldn't be punished. As far as I'm concerned now is a good time for the President to bring out his drones. Time for them to go work.
Actually I think I read we are looking for the guy that murdered James Foley. Edit to correct his name.
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Post by birukitty on Aug 21, 2014 21:25:10 GMT
I respectfully disagree. I think the truth deserves to be seen no matter how horrific it is. Only then can we honestly know what we are dealing with. Of course this is just my opinion.
Debbie in MD.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 21, 2014 23:11:40 GMT
I do not believe the video of the actual beheading should be made public. Perhaps stills or the statements being made up until the moment where they end his life, but out of respect for the Foley's family and out of awareness that terrorists INTENDED and WANT us to watch and be intimidated, I think it is best to not make the actual beheading available to the public.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 21, 2014 23:26:40 GMT
I will not watch the video as an act of defiance. It should be removed from the internet. Don't give ISIS what they want. One still photo tells the story. The intelligence services should analyze the video.
ISIS needs to be rooted out and destroyed. Obama better recognize that he underestimated the JV team and get to work. After watching Hagel and Dempsey today they were clear this group is well organized, they have money. It is estimated they have at least 500 British jihadists and an unknown number of Americans who have passports and can travel under the radar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 0:56:56 GMT
I've chosen not to watch the video because I know it would haunt me. That doesn't make my horror at these terrorists' actions any less. I have found myself wondering why these monsters are still breathing air and walking the earth. Why haven't we taken them out? It just angers me so much that we can't figure out how to neutralize them.
I know they drift between Syria and Iraq at will because no one controls the borders. I just wish we could pinpoint their locations and bomb them. You kill an American like this? Well, here's how we respond. You die, too. Every last one of you.
Speaking of unsecured borders, it scares me to death to think that terrorists like this could be infiltrating our country by crossing our southern border. We'd better get serious about our own homeland security before it's too late.
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
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Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on Aug 22, 2014 1:59:42 GMT
... Speaking of unsecured borders, it scares me to death to think that terrorists like this could be infiltrating our country by crossing our southern border. We'd better get serious about our own homeland security before it's too late. honestly I think they are already here. Our constitution and freedom of speech give them footholds to launch their recruitment programs, change our laws to come closer and closer to Sharia law. It's slow and insiduous, but it is too late to close the door. I am looking for links from reliable sources but despite that I hear about these events from friends who live in Miami and Dearborn, MI, Arab friends, some Christian and some Muslim, who came to America to escape religious confines or persecution and who are very worried about what is happening here in the USA, there is very little media coverage. Are we just putting our heads in the sand hoping it will go away? Right now when they rally their cries are "Kill the Jews". But they won't stop there. They've said so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 2:01:36 GMT
If someone feels it's important to watch that video, I don't condemn them for it. I simply don't have that same opinion about it, and chose differently for myself.
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Post by rebelyelle on Aug 22, 2014 2:29:55 GMT
I will not watch that video for about a thousand reasons, but the [HASH]1 is because his family has asked us not to. That is reason enough for me. Would YOU want your child's murdered view by thousands, or possibly millions, for the sake of "enlightenment"? Really? All the while knowing that his murders feel positively joyful that you're viewing the video, no matter the reason for doing so?
How many posters complain about the attention-whorish, sensationalized media we see on a daily basis? That video is the epitome of that. I don't need a play-by-play to understand the horrors that footage would show.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 22, 2014 2:38:55 GMT
He needs us to see the truth. The family has made a request. They knew him; we didn't. If he could come back and tell us he didn't want millions of people watching his execution on their phones, would you still say that he needs us to watch in order to see the truth? I don't understand the argument that not watching an execution on the internet is tantamount to contributing to the triumph of evil, and watching is tantamount to taking action.
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Post by rebelyelle on Aug 22, 2014 2:45:26 GMT
He doesn't need us to *see* the truth. We *know* the truth. We just need to get off our asses and do something about it. You don't need to see a women get raped to know that sexual assault is a problem, do you?
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Post by chlerbie on Aug 22, 2014 2:53:06 GMT
I don't get why we "need" to see it. I don't need to see video footage of the Sandy Hook killings to know that something horrible happened there.
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 22, 2014 3:28:22 GMT
It is important that these videos be preserved, just as the photos and films of the concentration camps need to be preserved, but I don't have any reason to be reviewing them.
It should be assumed that any family automatically requests that people do not watch videos like this. I hate that this family's requests are being included in reasons not to watch, because that comes way too close to implying that without that pressure from family, it's OK.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Aug 22, 2014 4:43:59 GMT
I meant to write yesterday and I didn't get the time. I think I get where Annabelle is coming from. We should witness this execution because this American journalist was innocent. He needs us to see the truth. We need to see with our own eyes this evil. This journalist was doing his job-a brave, daring job to bring the world images showing exactly what the condition are in this area. Without journalist (photographers and writers) we would be truly ignorant of what goes on in the rest of the world. These brave men and women risk their lives going to these places, doing their jobs so that we can learn the truth. The least we can do is be witnesses when they are murdered. To be there in spirit and let them know those evil men will not go unpunished. By turning away and burying our heads in the sand we stand by and do nothing. Nothing is what allows evil to continue to grow and thrive. What is that quote? "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" That is my feeling. No matter how harsh, disgusting or terrible truth must be witnessed. Debbie in MD. His parents have asked that people not watch it. It is not burying your head in the sand. It's a matter of respect.
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Post by rebelyelle on Aug 22, 2014 4:48:25 GMT
It should be assumed that any family automatically requests that people do not watch videos like this. I hate that this family's requests are being included in reasons not to watch, because that comes way too close to implying that without that pressure from family, it's OK. No. If the family had not made a statement that the public not watch those videos, I would not assume it be tacit approval to watch it. But the fact remains that the family has consistently asked the public not to do so, and so it will remain the first reason for me to not ever consider it. Respect for their wishes far, far, FAR outweighs any benefit that one might glean from viewing that video (if, in the rare case, I ever found a reason to view it in the first place).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 4:57:08 GMT
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Post by Skypea on Aug 22, 2014 6:10:41 GMT
mark your calendars for today - I agree with both scrappower and KS on this! I don't need to see it to know the horror of it.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 22, 2014 10:36:51 GMT
I hate that this family's requests are being included in reasons not to watch, because that comes way too close to implying that without that pressure from family, it's OK. I understand what you're saying. Honestly, I would hope it could be left unsaid that there is NO EARTHLY REASON for most people to watch this video. But when arguing against the idea that we owe it to Mr. Foley to watch his execution because he NEEDS us to watch it, the family argument - that Mr. Foley is basically asking us by proxy NOT to watch - seems to have the most chance of success. As somebody upthread said, there are many, many reasons not to watch. Many. I keep thinking of the kind of people - with absolutely no political interest, or with conveniently aroused political umbrage - who will watch it again...and again. The must-watch argument is like handing them nobility of purpose on a silver platter. Ugh.
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 22, 2014 11:13:42 GMT
conveniently aroused political umbrage My most favorite thing I have read this week. However, I *think* I understand what is meant when it is said that we need to watch. Now, personally, it is not something I need to do. But I think what is meant is that in the watching, Mr. Foley isn't alone. That we then become a witness to the horror and can testify to it, we become part of the history-not in a titillating way, but in the way of a personal witness. That if he has to endure the pain and terror, that perhaps in the watching, we can share it as the least we can do *for* him. There are those who can probably articulate it better than I. We all process events like this differently. For some, the only way to make it real is to see. We sit in our very safe homes, in our mostly safe neighborhoods where this kind of thing just doesn't happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 23:12:16 GMT
... Speaking of unsecured borders, it scares me to death to think that terrorists like this could be infiltrating our country by crossing our southern border. We'd better get serious about our own homeland security before it's too late. honestly I think they are already here. Our constitution and freedom of speech give them footholds to launch their recruitment programs, change our laws to come closer and closer to Sharia law. It's slow and insiduous, but it is too late to close the door. I am looking for links from reliable sources but despite that I hear about these events from friends who live in Miami and Dearborn, MI, Arab friends, some Christian and some Muslim, who came to America to escape religious confines or persecution and who are very worried about what is happening here in the USA, there is very little media coverage. Are we just putting our heads in the sand hoping it will go away? Right now when they rally their cries are "Kill the Jews". But they won't stop there. They've said so. I think you're right, if this report from WGN in Chicago is any indication. Scares the crap out of me.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Aug 22, 2014 23:52:22 GMT
The more I watch the coverage on ISIS the more I fear for our safety. Forget these people sneaking in. They will have passports to come in. And upwards of 1000 English and French citizens have joined their ranks. They might not have enough fire power to pull off something of the magnitude of 9/11 but our government ~ and our president ~ better come up with a strategy sooner rather than later. To me this is the biggest crisis that Obama has faced and I fear he is not up to the task. The pictures of him hamming it up on the golf course minutes after giving the speech about the beheading were in poor taste. JMHO of course.
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 23, 2014 3:39:36 GMT
It should be assumed that any family automatically requests that people do not watch videos like this. I hate that this family's requests are being included in reasons not to watch, because that comes way too close to implying that without that pressure from family, it's OK. No. If the family had not made a statement that the public not watch those videos, I would not assume it be tacit approval to watch it. But the fact remains that the family has consistently asked the public not to do so, and so it will remain the first reason for me to not ever consider it. Respect for their wishes far, far, FAR outweighs any benefit that one might glean from viewing that video (if, in the rare case, I ever found a reason to view it in the first place). That's a fine reason not to watch. Don't get me wrong, here. A victim who doesn't have this kind of public family request is entitled to equal discretion when it comes to these kinds of tapes. No matter who is tortured in this manner has family, friends and co-workers that are directly affected whether they make a public announcement or not. A general appeal not to watch out of consideration for these family, friends and co-workers covers all videos and isn't limited to this one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 10:31:24 GMT
The more I watch the coverage on ISIS the more I fear for our safety. Forget these people sneaking in. They will have passports to come in. And upwards of 1000 English and French citizens have joined their ranks. They might not have enough fire power to pull off something of the magnitude of 9/11 but our government ~ and our president ~ better come up with a strategy sooner rather than later. To me this is the biggest crisis that Obama has faced and I fear he is not up to the task. The pictures of him hamming it up on the golf course minutes after giving the speech about the beheading were in poor taste. JMHO of course. With respect Joy, the belief that they are coming in because they have passports to come in is a little naive. What makes you think that they're not already in the US, not by border entry, but born and bred in the US. It's not just the English and French that have joined their ranks. Intelligence confirms that there are Americans there too and a number of citizens from other countries. What do you suggest that President Obama should do in addition to what the US is doing in Iraq at the present time? Bombing the hell out of them in Iraq isn't going to solve the long term problem . We've already tried that with al Qaeda in the past and it hasn't worked. President Obama and all the leaders of the Western world has an unenviable task on how to deal with this and keep us all safe.It isn't confined to Iraq and Syria. That isn't the goal of IS. We can't ask our leaders "to do something" without acknowledging the difficulty they have in balancing the convenience,liberty and security of everyone else. They need to find why these individuals are turning against the values of the countries that they've been brought up in. We already know how.......the main one being internet radicalization through the hatred and propaganda that they distribute at an alarming rate.We need to halt this avenue somehow. Viewing this video is not only disrespectful to the wishes of his family but personally I also don't want to give IS the number of" hits" of viewers or shares that would give them any reason to celebrate their barbaric actions.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
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Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 23, 2014 12:43:52 GMT
The more I watch the coverage on ISIS the more I fear for our safety. Forget these people sneaking in. They will have passports to come in. From the LA Times regarding people travelling to fight with the militants in the Middle East:- All countries really do need to try and work out why these people are turning against the values they were brought up with, as dotty says, because we already know most of how it is done!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 13:19:45 GMT
Here's the link that Barbara has quoted from in the LA Times........someone is bound to ask for it! L A TIMES
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 23, 2014 13:24:27 GMT
Here's the link that Barbara has quoted from in the LA Times........someone is bound to ask for it! L A TIMESThanks dotty, thought I had put the link on before using the quotes but obviously hadn't!
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duopenotti
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Location: The Netherlands..the real Orange Country
Jun 30, 2014 15:02:10 GMT
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Post by duopenotti on Aug 23, 2014 13:34:46 GMT
Interesting thread! We have a good media coverage and I try to follow as much as I can. Why do these men join a terrorist group? This is a very interesting publication from our intelligence service: Transformation of jihadism in the Netherlands
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