moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,247
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Apr 11, 2017 0:10:08 GMT
I just read that Congress is now involved. The senior member of the Transportation committee has called for a congressional hearing into this and the practice of overbooking. United's bad day just got demonstrably worse. Good! I've always thought it was ridiculous that the airlines could sell more seats than they had on the plane. I understand that there are some no-shows, but you should not be able to sell more product than you have available. To me that seems like fraud.
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,987
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Apr 11, 2017 0:10:20 GMT
I hate United. My story is nothing anywhere near as bad as this fellow's, but last time we went to Maui, we flew United. Our flight home was Maui-San Francisco-Calgary. Not long before leaving on our trip, they cancelled the final leg - from San Francisco-Calgary. They didn't put us on another flight and in fact, didn't even let us know they did this. The only reason we found out was because I periodically checked our reservation online to make sure all was ok.
So they would have had us there in San Francisco in the wee hours of the morning with no flight home. It took 2.5 hours on the phone to get them to put us on a flight home, but they had to change it so we went through LAX (which I purposely avoided booking us through originally).
I got an email today - looks like United is having a huge sale today, lol. I guess they know they are going to be losing business over this. And so they should. I hope they suffer big time.
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Post by myshelly on Apr 11, 2017 0:15:02 GMT
What United did was unquestionably wrong. I would be furious and United would be paying for my ticket on the next flight to my destination, regardless of airline, and giving me a huge voucher, and I'd still call my attorney as soon as I landed. What the security guys did was criminal assault, plain and simple. I hope charges are filed against them. But...why in the world did the passenger not leave the plane and deal with it on the ground? Why didn't he get up on his own when security came to forcibly remove him? What did he hope to accomplish? That they would choose someone else? What if that person refused, and the next person refused and the next and the next? I hate to blame the victim, because what happened to him really was horrific, but he could have avoided it by just getting off the damn plane when he was told to. When you are on a plane, you have an obligation to obey all crew member instructions, whether you agree with them or not, whether they are fair or not. It is truly for the safety of all the passengers that you do what they tell you to do. I don't want to be in a metal tube 35,000 feet in the air with someone who isn't going to do what the crew members tell him to do. I just really cannot understand why he resisted to that extent. Look at what he accomplished! If he had left the plane none of this would have happened. United would have done this to someone else today and someone else tomorrow and the day after that. Instead, he has disrupted their business. Congress has called for hearings on the practice of overbooking. People are calling out United. The police officer was suspended. Sometimes you have to resist to see any change. If he had "dealt with it on the ground" what would he have accomplished?
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Post by cade387 on Apr 11, 2017 0:39:22 GMT
What United did was unquestionably wrong. I would be furious and United would be paying for my ticket on the next flight to my destination, regardless of airline, and giving me a huge voucher, and I'd still call my attorney as soon as I landed. What the security guys did was criminal assault, plain and simple. I hope charges are filed against them. But...why in the world did the passenger not leave the plane and deal with it on the ground? Why didn't he get up on his own when security came to forcibly remove him? What did he hope to accomplish? That they would choose someone else? What if that person refused, and the next person refused and the next and the next? I hate to blame the victim, because what happened to him really was horrific, but he could have avoided it by just getting off the damn plane when he was told to. When you are on a plane, you have an obligation to obey all crew member instructions, whether you agree with them or not, whether they are fair or not. It is truly for the safety of all the passengers that you do what they tell you to do. I don't want to be in a metal tube 35,000 feet in the air with someone who isn't going to do what the crew members tell him to do. I just really cannot understand why he resisted to that extent. I'm actually looking at it the other way. How many hundred other passengers were more interested in putting a video on Facebook than volunteering to take his place when it was getting out of hand? Apparently we need more Katniss and less capital in this world :-(
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Post by Merge on Apr 11, 2017 0:40:15 GMT
What United did was unquestionably wrong. I would be furious and United would be paying for my ticket on the next flight to my destination, regardless of airline, and giving me a huge voucher, and I'd still call my attorney as soon as I landed. What the security guys did was criminal assault, plain and simple. I hope charges are filed against them. But...why in the world did the passenger not leave the plane and deal with it on the ground? Why didn't he get up on his own when security came to forcibly remove him? What did he hope to accomplish? That they would choose someone else? What if that person refused, and the next person refused and the next and the next? I hate to blame the victim, because what happened to him really was horrific, but he could have avoided it by just getting off the damn plane when he was told to. When you are on a plane, you have an obligation to obey all crew member instructions, whether you agree with them or not, whether they are fair or not. It is truly for the safety of all the passengers that you do what they tell you to do. I don't want to be in a metal tube 35,000 feet in the air with someone who isn't going to do what the crew members tell him to do. I just really cannot understand why he resisted to that extent. Look at what he accomplished! If he had left the plane none of this would have happened. United would have done this to someone else today and someone else tomorrow and the day after that. Instead, he has disrupted their business. Congress has called for hearings on the practice of overbooking. People are calling out United. The police officer was suspended. Sometimes you have to resist to see any change. If he had "dealt with it on the ground" what would he have accomplished? Maybe #resist will spread to other areas of our lives.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,792
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Apr 11, 2017 0:51:44 GMT
then they say they had to add more fuel and we are overweight, we need 2-3 people to get off. no one volunteers. they are offering $800 credit. they announce again in 10 minutes, no one gets up. finally a different, very blunt woman comes on and tells us 2 people need to get off or they will start bumping random people or cancel the flight. I wonder if $800 is the limit on what United will offer?
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Post by txdancermom on Apr 11, 2017 0:58:41 GMT
I have never been a fan of United Airlines - anyone who I know who has flown them has problems - and I avoid them at all costs, thankfully coming out of the DFW area I have lots of better options.
I understand that overbooking is a fact of life in the airline business - they know that a certain percentage of their passengers will be no show or will cancel last minute. I knew a business man who would have a seat booked on almost every flight in an afternoon so that he could get whichever flight was most convenient when he didn't know when he would be done finished with his business - his secretary would cancel the ones he would not use once his timing was known
United's bad was they knew that they were over booked before anyone stepped foot on the plane. They knew or should have knows who they were going to deny boarding to, based on flyers that were checked in, and they should have held those 4 people back, only letting them on once they knew if there were seats (no shows who checked in).
I will never have to fly United, I will find another way to get where I need to be rather than fly them
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Post by AussieMeg on Apr 11, 2017 0:58:49 GMT
I’m not sure why they keep saying that the flight was overbooked. It wasn’t actually overbooked, they just wanted to get 4 of their own employees on the flight at the last minute.
I am generally not a fan of how litigious people in the US are (and Australia seems to be following suit lately), but this is one time when I hope he sues the pants off them.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:23:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 1:21:52 GMT
From what I read earlier was they had offered anyone $800.00 a hotel and food to give up their seat - when no one bit they had to randomly pick 4 people to stay behind - he was one of them. He did board after knowing he was not on the flight.
I apologize if this has been discussed already - I tried reading through the replies but didn't see anything
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Post by Really Red on Apr 11, 2017 1:22:25 GMT
What United did was unquestionably wrong. I would be furious and United would be paying for my ticket on the next flight to my destination, regardless of airline, and giving me a huge voucher, and I'd still call my attorney as soon as I landed. What the security guys did was criminal assault, plain and simple. I hope charges are filed against them. But...why in the world did the passenger not leave the plane and deal with it on the ground? Why didn't he get up on his own when security came to forcibly remove him? What did he hope to accomplish? That they would choose someone else? What if that person refused, and the next person refused and the next and the next? I hate to blame the victim, because what happened to him really was horrific, but he could have avoided it by just getting off the damn plane when he was told to. When you are on a plane, you have an obligation to obey all crew member instructions, whether you agree with them or not, whether they are fair or not. It is truly for the safety of all the passengers that you do what they tell you to do. I don't want to be in a metal tube 35,000 feet in the air with someone who isn't going to do what the crew members tell him to do. I just really cannot understand why he resisted to that extent. This is exactly it. I do think United was completely wrong. Apparently this guy LEFT and then came back. Just because United is dead wrong, does not make this guy right. This guy was wrong, too. Maybe less wrong, but still, who does that? If I were faced with these guys pulling me off the plane and I was 69yo, I hope I'd be old enough and mature enough to get off the plane on my own two feet. I highly doubt that United is the only carrier who does this stuff.
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 11, 2017 1:31:48 GMT
The airline was at fault, it overbooked. The airline should have offered enough money to induce four people to give up their seats. Had the airline offered $1,000 per seat, four people probably would have given up their seats. If the airlines are going to purposely overbook flights they should be willing to pay whatever it takes for people to voluntarily give up their seats. That, or they could have rented something so the 4 airline personnel could be driven the four hour drive to the spot they were going to. This man claimed to be a doctor needing to see patients the next day. The next flight wasn't for almost 24 hours. Can you imagine the patients waiting for that doctor? The people at United in charge of this should be having massive headaches tonight. They've earned that and a whole lot more.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 11, 2017 1:34:22 GMT
What United did was unquestionably wrong. I would be furious and United would be paying for my ticket on the next flight to my destination, regardless of airline, and giving me a huge voucher, and I'd still call my attorney as soon as I landed. What the security guys did was criminal assault, plain and simple. I hope charges are filed against them. But...why in the world did the passenger not leave the plane and deal with it on the ground? Why didn't he get up on his own when security came to forcibly remove him? What did he hope to accomplish? That they would choose someone else? What if that person refused, and the next person refused and the next and the next? I hate to blame the victim, because what happened to him really was horrific, but he could have avoided it by just getting off the damn plane when he was told to. When you are on a plane, you have an obligation to obey all crew member instructions, whether you agree with them or not, whether they are fair or not. It is truly for the safety of all the passengers that you do what they tell you to do. I don't want to be in a metal tube 35,000 feet in the air with someone who isn't going to do what the crew members tell him to do. I just really cannot understand why he resisted to that extent. Look at what he accomplished! If he had left the plane none of this would have happened. United would have done this to someone else today and someone else tomorrow and the day after that. Instead, he has disrupted their business. Congress has called for hearings on the practice of overbooking. People are calling out United. The police officer was suspended. Sometimes you have to resist to see any change. If he had "dealt with it on the ground" what would he have accomplished? I agree. The optics are beyond terrible. United may be within its rights, but this has been played on all social media all day, over and over. That guy may have a split lip, but United has a black eye.
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Post by Belia on Apr 11, 2017 1:49:26 GMT
What on earth is happening in this country?!?!? I mean, for real, if you had asked me 10 or 20 years ago if it would be possible for there to be a video of a paying customer being bloodied and forcibly dragged off an airplane for no other reason than they wanted to, oh, I don't know, use the service they had paid for, I would not believe it.
I feel like I am in some kind of alternate universe. This is crazy. It's like we're eating each other alive.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Apr 11, 2017 1:59:54 GMT
I stopped flying United years ago due to their appalling customer service. So did my sister and her husband.
One of my experiences was when I was trying to get from Denver to Tucson the day my stepfather died (he had a heart attack in his sleep; so no warning). I arrived at the gate and the tunnel was still up, but they refused boarding to me. I was crying and telling them my stepdad died and I needed to get to my mom. They couldn't have given a shit. I ended up being very angry about it because soon after that flight, I was on another United flight that was held for a late passenger; he was a congressman. What the fuck? Heartless assholes! So clearly I just wasn't important enough.
The second experience: I arrived very early for a flight. In fact, I was either first or very close to the first person who checked in. The flight was cancelled. We were told we would be put on a later flight. Next flight starts to board a couple of hours later. I watch as people from my original flight who'd arrived far later than I did were boarded. Then standbys boarded. I went to the ticket agent and asked "what about me?" By this time I'd been at the airport for 6 hours or so. I was told in no uncertain terms that, because I wasn't a frequent flier and paid a low amount for the ticket, I was at the bottom of the list, and they had no idea when, or even if, they would get me on a plane. I was livid! I did yell at the gate agent, but she responded by threatening me with calling the police! I ended up leaving the area, and in fact leaving the airport and travelling another day. The way she responded to me was aggressive, nasty, cruel and condescending. Yuck. I was so done with United after that. And when I started telling people my story I found out that many others also found United's customer care to be atrocious.
Going way back to when TWA was still an airline, I was a teenager and was flying back from London to Tucson. Our flight was many hours late, and we were diverted to a different airport (Philadelphia, was supposed to have been JFK, I think). So I had no connecting flight. I also had basically no money, and this was before cell phones. TWA refused to help me at all. I had to go to other airlines (and remember, this was pre-laptops too, so I had no information) and ask if they had any flights to Tucson. It was a nightmare. Finally, I think it was Continental took pity on me and put me on a plane to Tucson at no charge. But I shouldn't have had to do that.
Hubby and I were watching something recently and the TWA symbol was on the screen. "The Worst Airline," I said. There's a reason they went bankrupt. Wish United would as well.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Apr 11, 2017 2:07:06 GMT
I always feel there must be more to the story and perhaps there is. Maybe we do not know the REAL reason he was asked to leave the plane. However, if it truly was due to overbooking, the man was obviously allowed to board the plane initially, therefore he shouldn't have been removed because they were overbooked. Since he was allowed to board, whoever came after him should have been told they were overbooked and full. An airline shouldn't allow anyone to board the plane until they know they have a seat for them. The problem here is it wasn't any old passenger - it was a flight crew that needed to be in Louisville for a subsequent flight. I'm sure the plane load of people in Louisville wouldn't have been too pleased with their inability to fly because United couldn't get their crew to the airport. I haven't seen any report about whether this was a typical situation with the crew or a different flight or airport delay/cancellation impacted the crew. I'll reiterate my initial comment which is they never should have started boarding before they had their volunteers - BUT I do understand why they needed the crew in Louisville and weren't going to simply tell them you're the last ones here too bad so sad. And I know enough about crew scheduling now to know that they could have picked another crew from a different location. There are dozens if not hundreds of crew members on standby at any given time. If this particular crew had been unable to get to Louisville due to a mechanical problem with the plane, or due to bad weather, United would have had to find another crew. This happens all the time. There is always another option. They chose not to take it. I don't think there is any more to this story than that the doctor refused to get off, and United got heavy-handed.
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Post by QueSeraSera on Apr 11, 2017 2:07:27 GMT
The thought of any person being knocked unconscious and dragged out of a plane by force so 4 crew members could make their next flight makes me sick to my stomach. I can't be the only one having flashbacks to Jackson and Le Guin today.
How much must we devolve as a society that this behavior is considered by an entire group of employees as the appropriate action necessary for the "greater good" of their crew, their airline, their other passengers? This wasn't one rogue employee. An entire group of people subjected this man to public humiliation and physical violence. Even in hindsight they defended their boorish actions. The response from United added insult to actual injury. The whole incident is just disgusting.
United definitely lost my business.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 11, 2017 2:09:26 GMT
What on earth is happening in this country?!?!? I mean, for real, if you had asked me 10 or 20 years ago if it would be possible for there to be a video of a paying customer being bloodied and forcibly dragged off an airplane for no other reason than they wanted to, oh, I don't know, use the service they had paid for, I would not believe it. I feel like I am in some kind of alternate universe. This is crazy. It's like we're eating each other alive. ITA! What gets me is that I pay for a ticket, often months in advance, for a seat on a flight. Not a chance for a seat. I get if there are mechanical problems, weather issues, or things that are beyond their control that disrupt travel. But because of their business practices? If that is how they are going to operate, they need to assess their backup plan and be prepared to offer more incentive for people. And to physically remove a passenger like that? Insane! Feels like the Hunger Games. Maybe at boardign time you try to take out fellow passengers to guarantee a seat and try to grab what snacks, blankets, and headphones you can from the cornucopia.
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Post by elaine on Apr 11, 2017 2:11:49 GMT
The problem here is it wasn't any old passenger - it was a flight crew that needed to be in Louisville for a subsequent flight. I'm sure the plane load of people in Louisville wouldn't have been too pleased with their inability to fly because United couldn't get their crew to the airport. I haven't seen any report about whether this was a typical situation with the crew or a different flight or airport delay/cancellation impacted the crew. I'll reiterate my initial comment which is they never should have started boarding before they had their volunteers - BUT I do understand why they needed the crew in Louisville and weren't going to simply tell them you're the last ones here too bad so sad. And I know enough about crew scheduling now to know that they could have picked another crew from a different location. There are dozens if not hundreds of crew members on standby at any given time. If this particular crew had been unable to get to Louisville due to a mechanical problem with the plane, or due to bad weather, United would have had to find another crew. This happens all the time. There is always another option. They chose not to take it. I don't think there is any more to this story than that the doctor refused to get off, and United got heavy-handed. Thank you. That was what I said upthread, but I don't have in-industry knowledge.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:23:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 2:17:35 GMT
There are a few (a tiny few) on Twitter defending United's choices.
Comments like "If you refuse to do what an attendant tells you to do, on on a commercial airplane, you should expect to be injured. That's just the outcome"
To which a great many are responding w/comments like: "If people won't go quietly to the concentration camps when directed, they should expect to be hunted down & packed in cattle cars. That's just the outcome."
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Post by melanell on Apr 11, 2017 2:18:30 GMT
And beyond how atrociously they treated this man, if I were a passenger and I had to witness this type of violent reaction on the part of the airline, I would be very upset, and this isn't something that would even trigger traumatic memories for me. I certainly feel for anyone who might have witnessed it who could unfortunately not say the same. I am having a hard time imagining myself feeling okay with continuing on this flight if I saw this happen. I would probably be carrying on a debate inside my head between wanting to ask to be allowed to leave the plane and fearing how they might freak out if yet another passenger didn't do exactly what they expected of them.
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Post by melanell on Apr 11, 2017 2:22:06 GMT
There are a few (a tiny few) on Twitter defending United's choices. Comments like "If you refuse to do what an attendant tells you to do, on on a commercial airplane, you should expect to be injured. That's just the outcome" That's all well and good until at some point in their life they (or a loved one) resist against what seems like a completely unfair situation and violence is used against them because of it. Then we'll see if they say the same thing. SaveSave
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Post by QueSeraSera on Apr 11, 2017 2:27:52 GMT
You are only as free as your neighbor. The people defending United should remember that. They don't care because they would have complied with the flight agents requests. They would line up and obey just like good citizens. Gee what could possibly go wrong with that?
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grammanisi
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,741
Jun 26, 2014 1:37:37 GMT
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Post by grammanisi on Apr 11, 2017 2:28:19 GMT
I'm sure they'd make an exception for you and go back to the lottery and randomly pick another person, which they could have done when this man said no His wife was flying with him.
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grammanisi
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,741
Jun 26, 2014 1:37:37 GMT
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Post by grammanisi on Apr 11, 2017 2:31:49 GMT
If United needs a crew in Louisville and they have to bump paying passengers to get the crew there, they should be prepared to pay big bucks to induce passengers to give up their seats. Why didn't they shuttle the crew to Louisville? It's only about a 5 hour drive.
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Post by annabella on Apr 11, 2017 2:37:09 GMT
You are only as free as your neighbor. The people defending United should remember that. They don't care because they would have complied with the flight agents requests. They would line up and obey just like good citizens. Gee what could possibly go wrong with that? Exactly I saw a flight attendant on facebook say he would have been a security risk in air since he has already shown he wouldn't comply with orders. WTF this security brainwashing is insane!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:23:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 2:40:51 GMT
What United did was unquestionably wrong. I would be furious and United would be paying for my ticket on the next flight to my destination, regardless of airline, and giving me a huge voucher, and I'd still call my attorney as soon as I landed. What the security guys did was criminal assault, plain and simple. I hope charges are filed against them. But...why in the world did the passenger not leave the plane and deal with it on the ground? Why didn't he get up on his own when security came to forcibly remove him? What did he hope to accomplish? That they would choose someone else? What if that person refused, and the next person refused and the next and the next? I hate to blame the victim, because what happened to him really was horrific, but he could have avoided it by just getting off the damn plane when he was told to. When you are on a plane, you have an obligation to obey all crew member instructions, whether you agree with them or not, whether they are fair or not. It is truly for the safety of all the passengers that you do what they tell you to do. I don't want to be in a metal tube 35,000 feet in the air with someone who isn't going to do what the crew members tell him to do. I just really cannot understand why he resisted to that extent. THere is no dealing with it on the ground. Once you leave the plane quietly there is no further way to press your point home that they are causing havoc with the traveling public. You just become one more silent person in a long line of silent people who had to go through the whole find a flight and go through security check AGAIN . Have we heard anything about the other 3 "randomly selected" passengers that were supposedly also removed but went quietly to deal with it later? If any changes get made it will be due to the one who was assualted to be removed, not the 3 that went quietly.
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,432
Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Apr 11, 2017 2:41:58 GMT
Found this on Reddit:
I was on this flight and want to add a few things to give some extra context. This was extremely hard to watch and children were crying during and after the event. When the manager came on the plane to start telling people to get off someone said they would take another flight (the next day at 2:55 in the afternoon) for $1600 and she laughed in their face. The security part is accurate, but what you did not see is that after this initial incident they lost the man in the terminal. He ran back on to the plane covered in blood shaking and saying that he had to get home over and over. I wonder if he did not have a concussion at this point. They then kicked everybody off the plane to get him off a second time and clean the blood out of the plane. This took over an hour. All in all the incident took about two and a half hours. The united employees who were on the plane to bump the gentleman were two hostesses and two pilots of some sort. This was very poorly handled by United and I will definitely never be flying with them again.
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Post by annabella on Apr 11, 2017 2:44:31 GMT
THere is no dealing with it on the ground. Once you leave the plane quietly there is no further way to press your point home that they are causing havoc with the traveling public. You just become one more silent person in a long line of silent people who had to go through the whole find a flight and go through security check AGAIN . Have we heard anything about the other 3 "randomly selected" passengers that were supposedly also removed but went quietly to deal with it later? If any changes get made it will be due to the one who was assualted to be removed, not the 3 that went quietly. Before everyone had an iphone that would have been the case.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:23:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 2:50:54 GMT
THere is no dealing with it on the ground. Once you leave the plane quietly there is no further way to press your point home that they are causing havoc with the traveling public. You just become one more silent person in a long line of silent people who had to go through the whole find a flight and go through security check AGAIN . Have we heard anything about the other 3 "randomly selected" passengers that were supposedly also removed but went quietly to deal with it later? If any changes get made it will be due to the one who was assualted to be removed, not the 3 that went quietly. Before everyone had an iphone that would have been the case. And it has been the case for decades which is why United thought they could get away with it today.
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Post by annabella on Apr 11, 2017 3:13:21 GMT
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