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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 15:13:17 GMT
The problem here is it wasn't any old passenger - it was a flight crew that needed to be in Louisville for a subsequent flight. I'm sure the plane load of people in Louisville wouldn't have been too pleased with their inability to fly because United couldn't get their crew to the airport. I haven't seen any report about whether this was a typical situation with the crew or a different flight or airport delay/cancellation impacted the crew. I'll reiterate my initial comment which is they never should have started boarding before they had their volunteers - BUT I do understand why they needed the crew in Louisville and weren't going to simply tell them you're the last ones here too bad so sad. But that was *their* (United) problem, not this man's. He paid his ticket and he made adequate arrangements to make sure he made it to where he needed to be on Monday. Why should *he* pay for United's lack of planning, rather than United. You know personal responsibility and all that. What makes United's plane full of people in Louisville more important than his hospital/ office full of patients. There were other ways for United to get their crew there. Stealing this man's seat (and any other time someone forcibly takes something that someone else has paid for it is considered stealing) could not have possibly been the best option. I think there's a whole lot of hyperbole in this comment. You entered into a contract with the airline when you purchase your ticket. It explicitly states they have the right to oversell tickets and deny you boarding. That provision allows them to offer you your ticket at the price you paid. If you want to never risk an oversold situation - the airline would need to adjust their prices accordingly. YOU agreed to the terms of the provisions. There are federal outlines of the compensation the airline must pay you if you're denied the seat you have a confirmed reservation on. If you're delayed 2-4 hours - 200% if the one way fare up to $650. If you're delayed more than that - 400% of the one way fare up to $1350. That's cash compensation. If you are not happy with the contract of carriage the airline is offering - don't buy a ticket. But to claim the airline is stealing your ticket when it's in the actual contract you agreed to is hyperbole at best. And if anyone thinks United is alone in overselling - they're not. Southwest is the #1 airline for bumping seats - although as they also have more passengers, statistically you're most likely to be bumped by Delta than any other airline.
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Post by elaine on Apr 11, 2017 15:15:16 GMT
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 15:16:06 GMT
I watched the video, both of them and it is disturbing. To me it doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong, that's not the way to remove someone from a plane. But can I just say no one was getting $800 cash, it was a voucher. which is probably only good for a period of time like a year. A voucher isn't much good to someone who isn't planning a vacation within a year. A voucher only makes you pay more money, it won't cover the costs of a vacation. Offer me $800 cash, a night in a hotel and meals and if I didn't have to be somewhere the next day I would probably give up my seat. But for a voucher, no. Exactly this! The EU has rules that the airlines must pay CASH (not, useless to many, vouchers) for displacement (http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm#compensation). Trust me, in the US airlines' financial spreadsheets somewhere is a calculus of how many people they bump, how much in vouchers they offer and how many are redeemed. They make money on the refundable flights by charging much higher fares for refundable tickets, partly to cover no-shows, they make money on overbooking and they make money on useless vouchers that don't help people in the same way as cold, hard cash. But, as usual, the US laws kowtow to the corporations and allow these useless vouchers as repayment for real cash tickets, bought and paid for sometimes months ahead, being disregarded and repaid w/later flights and, to many, useless vouchers. This is completely inaccurate. There are federal requirements for cash payments for passengers denied boarding in the US as well. www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 12:16:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 15:16:48 GMT
US laws may give United the right to do what they did. But there is the right way and the wrong way and as United is finding out they did it the wrong way.
From the Daily Beast....
"United Airlines stock nosedives thebea.st/2omDzXI"
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Apr 11, 2017 15:18:45 GMT
I don't understand this way of thinking. Why should he have had to leave the plane? He didn't " volunteer" to give the seat up that he had legally paid for. As far as he was concerned he had as much right to that seat, that he had paid for, as any other passenger on that plane. Why would he be expected to comply with the airline's incompetency in running their business Look at it another way. Would anyone go into a store and buy an article, go up to the register, pay for it and then as you walk out the door security stopped you and asked if you would " volunteer" to give your goods to another person who requested them but the stock had now all gone. Would you willingly do that? I doubt very much that anyone would . If you didn't would you expect security to drag you back & assault you so that they could give the goods, that you had already paid for, to another customer? The man didn't break any laws in what he did, so there was no need for the police to be there in the first place, let alone stand by and watch the man being dragged and assaulted. ( The person in that video that was dragging him, was wearing jeans so I'm guessing he was an airline employee rather than a policeman ) I'm not the OP, but IMO everyone who gets on a plane knows that this is a possibility. You know your plane can be cancelled, your plane can be diverted and you know you can be bumped. Again, just to be clear, United personnel were ridiculous. I cannot believe that they resorted to violence to remove someone, but honestly, if I were sitting near someone who refused to leave the plane, it would make me nervous. I'm just saying we all know this crap (bumping) can happen. We can deal with it like an adult or we can deal with it like an entitled toddler, by refusing to move. If this man really is a doctor, I would approach the gate and explain the situation and show my credentials. I wouldn't go on a plane I was told NOT to go on and sit in a seat I'm not supposed to be in.
I wouldn't either and neither did THIS man. He paid for that ticket and that seat, was cleared for boarding and was boarded. Only after all that was he told to get off the plane and surrender his seat. An airline manager came on board and threatened to have people removed if no one "volunteered". No one ever told him NOT to board that plane- and how is a seat he paid for one he was not supposed to be seated in?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 12:16:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 15:19:01 GMT
Exactly this! The EU has rules that the airlines must pay CASH (not, useless to many, vouchers) for displacement (http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm#compensation). Trust me, in the US airlines' financial spreadsheets somewhere is a calculus of how many people they bump, how much in vouchers they offer and how many are redeemed. They make money on the refundable flights by charging much higher fares for refundable tickets, partly to cover no-shows, they make money on overbooking and they make money on useless vouchers that don't help people in the same way as cold, hard cash. But, as usual, the US laws kowtow to the corporations and allow these useless vouchers as repayment for real cash tickets, bought and paid for sometimes months ahead, being disregarded and repaid w/later flights and, to many, useless vouchers. This is completely inaccurate. There are federal requirements for cash payments for passengers denied boarding in the US as well. www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rightsThanks for the link. Then why do they offer vouchers instead of cash if their contracts require them to pay cash?
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Post by maryland on Apr 11, 2017 15:26:18 GMT
I watched the video, both of them, and it is disturbing. To me it doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong, that's not the way to remove someone from a plane. But can I just say no one was getting $800 cash, it was a voucher. which is probably only good for a period of time like a year. A voucher isn't much good to someone who isn't planning a vacation within a year. A voucher only makes you pay more money, it won't cover the costs of a vacation. Offer me $800 cash, a night in a hotel and meals and if I didn't have to be somewhere the next day I would probably give up my seat. But for a voucher, no. Yes! Not everyone is able to take off work/spend more money on hotel, meals, etc. to use the voucher. I think cash would be a better option if no one wanted a voucher.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 15:26:18 GMT
Thanks for the link. Then why do they offer vouchers instead of cash if their contracts require them to pay cash? Because they will find volunteers for being bumped with a voucher before they need to involuntary bump someone. There's a whole subset of travelers who work the overfold flight system - requesting to be bumped. I used to do it when I was a college student. When I checked in (in the dark ages before online check in) - I'd inquire if the flight was oversold and request to be put on the list to volunteer to be bumped if they needed one. I only had to pay for about 50% or so of my flights during those 4 years because I could be flexible. There's blogs now devoted to telling people which airlines and routes are most likely to be bumped so that people can obtain vouchers. The statistics show that most bumping is voluntary: This is total number of passengers bumped by airlines per 10,000 (keep in mind many of these are due to cancelled flights because of weather, mechanical issues etc - not just oversold situations): Delta – 10.0 United – 7.2 Southwest – 5.9 Spirit – 5.4 American – 4.1 Virgin America – 3.0 Alaska – 2.9 Frontier – 1.4 JetBlue – 0.5 Hawaiian – 0.3 When it comes to involuntary bumps, the picture changes dramatically, with regional feeder carriers atop the list, bumping 1.2 out of every 10,000 flyers: Regional feeders – 1.2 Southwest – 1.0 JetBlue – 0.9 American – 0.6 Frontier – 0.6 Spirit 0.6 Alaska – 0.4 United – 0.4 Delta – 0.1 Hawaiian – 0.1 Virgin America – 0.1 The regionals are also at a huge disadvantage as there are simply fewer flights. If you can receive a voucher and be at your destination in 2 hours - it's a very different situation than 24 hours later. Hence this situation where Republic operating as United Express ended up with an involuntary bumping fiasco.
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Post by annabella on Apr 11, 2017 15:28:48 GMT
You entered into a contract with the airline when you purchase your ticket. It explicitly states they have the right to oversell tickets and deny you boarding. That contract needs to be changed because it's unfair.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 12:16:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 15:31:57 GMT
Yes, and here's what that relates to in real numbers: In 2015, 46,000 travelers were involuntarily bumped from flights, according to data from the Department of Transportation. money.cnn.com/2017/04/10/news/united-overbooking-policy/46,000 people who paid for a ticket and were involuntarily bumped. If there needs to be a law, let there be a law, to lessen this practice that benefits the airlines at the cost of their customers' schedules after having paid in good faith for carriage. They United made 2.3Billion in after-tax profits last year. They are far from hurting. If they need to overbook to account for no-shows (which I contend that they don't since you either have a non-refundable ticket which is already paid for, or a high-priced refundable ticket which compensates them when you no-show and use it later), then the overbooking allowed should be managed legally - since as we can see, when there are few laws about what % of overbooking they're allowed, they will abuse the privilege to oversell that they have over all other merchants.
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gloryjoy
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,332
Jun 26, 2014 12:35:32 GMT
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Post by gloryjoy on Apr 11, 2017 15:41:09 GMT
I get being bumped, I understand why it happens. I understand some people will volunteer, some people simply cannot.
I understand that they have the right to do it. All I am saying is make it more attractive to people and I'm sure they would have more than enough volunteers. My husband and I are retired, we'd take $1600 cash to give up two seats. Heck I might even volunteer before I board if I knew that was my option. But I'm not going to volunteer to give up a seat that I paid for months in advance, checked in in the appropriate time frame, had my luggage put on the plane and am in my seat if all you are offering me is a voucher.
I think for most people, being bumped would be a major inconvenience. .
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 12:16:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 15:44:59 GMT
Exactly this! The EU has rules that the airlines must pay CASH (not, useless to many, vouchers) for displacement (http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm#compensation). Trust me, in the US airlines' financial spreadsheets somewhere is a calculus of how many people they bump, how much in vouchers they offer and how many are redeemed. They make money on the refundable flights by charging much higher fares for refundable tickets, partly to cover no-shows, they make money on overbooking and they make money on useless vouchers that don't help people in the same way as cold, hard cash. But, as usual, the US laws kowtow to the corporations and allow these useless vouchers as repayment for real cash tickets, bought and paid for sometimes months ahead, being disregarded and repaid w/later flights and, to many, useless vouchers. This is completely inaccurate. There are federal requirements for cash payments for passengers denied boarding in the US as well. www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rightsPS - what I said is not "inaccurate". Here is what I said: "But, as usual, the US laws kowtow to the corporations and allow these useless vouchers as repayment for real cash tickets," which is 100% true. The US laws DO allow the airline corps to offer vouchers rather than pay out their requirements to pay for the tickets at multiples of their purchase price. Instead US law could mandate the cash repayment ANY TIME someone is bumped, vs. allowing the airlines to hide behind "voluntary" vouchers which many passengers may feel is the only compensation they are allowed - because the airlines don't tell them about the mandatory payments UNLESS the involuntary bumping is enacted. So, while the airlines are still in a "we're looking for people to voluntarily give up their seats...." people don't know that they will be compensated at multiples of their ticket price by not taking the, useless to many, voucher offers. So, I stand by what I wrote.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 15:52:45 GMT
I get being bumped, I understand why it happens. I understand some people will volunteer, some people simply cannot. I understand that they have the right to do it. All I am saying is make it more attractive to people and I'm sure they would have more than enough volunteers. My husband and I are retired, we'd take $1600 cash to give up two seats. Heck I might even volunteer before I board if I knew that was my option. But I'm not going to volunteer to give up a seat that I paid for months in advance, checked in in the appropriate time frame, had my luggage put on the plane and am in my seat if all you are offering me is a voucher. I think for most people, being bumped would be a major inconvenience. . Totally agree - and I stated in my first thread that they handled this poorly. On my last flight to Orlando they were offering AmEx gift cards as they couldn't get sufficient passengers with straight vouchers.
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Post by blondiec47 on Apr 11, 2017 15:55:03 GMT
I read this morning that some flights are overbooked by 40%!!! That is insane. That is what congress needs to look at. How can it be okay to sell 10 tickets knowing that only 4 will be allowed to fly? And the vouchers are a joke, offer me $1000 a hotel and food and I might consider it, anything less than that-no way. I plan my travel, United should be able to as well.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 15:56:31 GMT
PS - what I said is not "inaccurate". Here is what I said: "But, as usual, the US laws kowtow to the corporations and allow these useless vouchers as repayment for real cash tickets," which is 100% true. The US laws DO allow the airline corps to offer vouchers rather than pay out their requirements to pay for the tickets at multiples of their purchase price. Instead US law could mandate the cash repayment ANY TIME someone is bumped, vs. allowing the airlines to hide behind "voluntary" vouchers which many passengers may feel is the only compensation they are allowed - because the airlines don't tell them about the mandatory payments UNLESS the involuntary bumping is enacted. So, while the airlines are still in a "we're looking for people to voluntarily give up their seats...." people don't know that they will be compensated at multiples of their ticket price by not taking the, useless to many, voucher offers. So, I stand by what I wrote. ? You're so weird. It's okay to not know something. The system is exactly the same in Europe in that they can request volunteers - so your statement of a different system in Europe versus the US was inaccurate. The US mandates cash payments - just like Europe. The airlines can try and entice volunteers - just like in Europe.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 12:16:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 16:09:14 GMT
PS - what I said is not "inaccurate". Here is what I said: "But, as usual, the US laws kowtow to the corporations and allow these useless vouchers as repayment for real cash tickets," which is 100% true. The US laws DO allow the airline corps to offer vouchers rather than pay out their requirements to pay for the tickets at multiples of their purchase price. Instead US law could mandate the cash repayment ANY TIME someone is bumped, vs. allowing the airlines to hide behind "voluntary" vouchers which many passengers may feel is the only compensation they are allowed - because the airlines don't tell them about the mandatory payments UNLESS the involuntary bumping is enacted. So, while the airlines are still in a "we're looking for people to voluntarily give up their seats...." people don't know that they will be compensated at multiples of their ticket price by not taking the, useless to many, voucher offers. So, I stand by what I wrote. ? You're so weird. It's okay to not know something. The system is exactly the same in Europe in that they can request volunteers - so your statement of a different system in Europe versus the US was inaccurate. The US mandates cash payments - just like Europe. The airlines can try and entice volunteers - just like in Europe. Fair enough. I thought you were calling out the statement I quoted above - not the one about Europe being different. You can make your point w/o ad-homs.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 16:15:25 GMT
? You're so weird. It's okay to not know something. The system is exactly the same in Europe in that they can request volunteers - so your statement of a different system in Europe versus the US was inaccurate. The US mandates cash payments - just like Europe. The airlines can try and entice volunteers - just like in Europe. Fair enough. I thought you were calling out the statement I quoted above - not the one about Europe being different. You can make your point w/o ad-homs. True - I apologize for the insult. I get tired of having to argue about every single thing - no matter how inconsequential. I try and correct factually errors when I see them. Unfortunately, there's a significant portion of people who seem to think any correction is some affront on their honor or that I'm suddenly arguing some completely unrelated point. I probably should have had more coffee before posting.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 12:16:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 16:36:52 GMT
Fair enough. I thought you were calling out the statement I quoted above - not the one about Europe being different. You can make your point w/o ad-homs. True - I apologize for the insult. I get tired of having to argue about every single thing - no matter how inconsequential. I try and correct factually errors when I see them. Unfortunately, there's a significant portion of people who seem to think any correction is some affront on their honor or that I'm suddenly arguing some completely unrelated point. I probably should have had more coffee before posting. Thanks. I get tired of having to argue about every single thing too. But still try to steer clear of "you are" statements.
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Post by heltr on Apr 11, 2017 16:45:41 GMT
The part that is strange to me is that this happened after boarding. I understand the airline has the right to bump passengers, but it is highly unusual to do so after boarding.
It doesn't seem like an oversold situation to me - if you had a boarding card then you had a seat. It is more like they wanted to add some staff to a full flight. Asking for volunteers is fine in that situation, but involuntary bumping to get extra staff on the plane seems to be outside the rules of the ticket. That was United's problem, not the passengers.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 11, 2017 16:49:29 GMT
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Post by Really Red on Apr 11, 2017 16:57:41 GMT
The thing is, is that we do not know what happened prior to the video. We do not.
It does not appear to me that United handled this well, but I can tell you if - and this is a giant if - this man rushed on to a plane and is making crazy comments, then if I were a passenger, I'd be happy he were off the plane.
The man does not appear to be a mentally healthy person. That clearly does not mean he has the right to be treated with anything but respect, but I am just flabbergasted that everyone is making judgments based on one small piece of information. We have absolutely NO IDEA what went on before.
I have seen people removed from planes on several occasions and even when one was completely drunk, they didn't act like that man did. Adults just don't resolve their problems by flopping down and refusing to move!! One person in this thread suggested that this was like the Holocaust. WTF? This is an airlines misbehaving and a person misbehaving and both should have consequences.
And FWIW, I didn't realize it was a 5-hour drive. Why the heck didn't United just offer the $800 and either a hotel or a rental car?
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Post by lurkingsince2001 on Apr 11, 2017 17:00:46 GMT
So I noticed TMZ and such has been digging around about the guy. I know it's what they do, but any attempt to smear or discredit this guy really should backfire on them as well. It doesn't really matter if this guy had legal issues or his license to practice suspended or was a poker player on the side. He could be all sorts of bad things and it isn't germane to the story. It's not like the airlines knew those things and that's why they acted the way they did. What's next, his mental history or perhaps allegations he was on something? As far as I can tell, it could've happened to any one of us. We might handle it better or not.
Frankly, even if he turns out to be terrible person, it's not going to change how badly United has been handling their customers lately. Just because the rules say you can, doesn't always mean you should. They need a PR intervention stat. And perhaps some new training and procedures.
(To clarify, I'm assuming that if he legitimately appeared to be on something or acting in a way that was unusual BEFORE the incident, that would've already been mentioned as a CYA move. If there was any smoke there, I'd think they'd be playing it up to turn the narrative in their favor. I'm not denying that those factors might play a part in removing someone, just that it'll be suspicious if these "excuses" come out later.)
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Post by elaine on Apr 11, 2017 17:01:30 GMT
Very interesting. Thank you for posting. If what the lawyer says is true, that contradicts a lot of info on this thread.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 11, 2017 17:01:56 GMT
and this is a giant if - this man rushed on to a plane and is making crazy comments, then if I were a passenger, I'd be happy he were off the plane. The man does not appear to be a mentally healthy person. That clearly does not mean he has the right to be treated with anything but respect, but I am just flabbergasted that everyone is making judgments based on one small piece of information. We have absolutely NO IDEA what went on before. I think you're referring to this video? (Please correct me if I'm wrong) If this is the correct video then you must realize it was recorded after he had suffered some kind of head injury. I'm not surprised by his confusion and strange behavior at this point. You are right though, we don't know exactly what transpired prior to the original video recording but what is purported is that this person refused the "voluntary re-accommodation" citing he was a doctor and had patients to see and so had to travel. ETA: And FWIW, I didn't realize it was a 5-hour drive. Why the heck didn't United just offer the $800 and either a hotel or a rental car? Bet they're asking themselves the same question right now, lmao.
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Post by elaine on Apr 11, 2017 17:08:58 GMT
The thing is, is that we do not know what happened prior to the video. We do not. It does not appear to me that United handled this well, but I can tell you if - and this is a giant if - this man rushed on to a plane and is making crazy comments, then if I were a passenger, I'd be happy he were off the plane. The man does not appear to be a mentally healthy person. That clearly does not mean he has the right to be treated with anything but respect, but I am just flabbergasted that everyone is making judgments based on one small piece of information. We have absolutely NO IDEA what went on before. I have seen people removed from planes on several occasions and even when one was completely drunk, they didn't act like that man did. Adults just don't resolve their problems by flopping down and refusing to move!! One person in this thread suggested that this was like the Holocaust. WTF? This is an airlines misbehaving and a person misbehaving and both should have consequences. And FWIW, I didn't realize it was a 5-hour drive. Why the heck didn't United just offer the $800 and either a hotel or a rental car? No one has said anything about the man being removed due to his behavior. Everyone, including United, has stated that he was selected at random to be removed to make room for non-paying flight staff. United would have no reason to lie about it in a way that makes them look awful. If you watch the videos, other passengers are yelling at the security people to stop. The people alarming them are Security, not a 69 year old man.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,946
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Apr 11, 2017 17:10:07 GMT
Should have been resolved before boarding for sure. But good grief, leave the plane like an adult. It was done fairly by random selection. I can't believe he made such a spectacle of himself by making them drag him off. If the other passengers were so bothered by it, perhaps one should have offered to take his place? Really? Save
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Post by annie on Apr 11, 2017 17:19:04 GMT
I'm fascinated by this story. Appalled at United's decisions and behavior. I don't care that the guy appears to be a bit "scummy", from what TMZ uncovered. It could have been ANY of us. I hope this brings about some changes on how airlines are allowed to treat their paying customers.
I also can't believe when things started to go awry that they didn't just come up with an alternate plan. Like rent a car to get the crew to Louisville! Or are they too good to ride about like commoners?
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Post by annabella on Apr 11, 2017 17:25:26 GMT
So I noticed TMZ and such has been digging around about the guy. I know it's what they do, but any attempt to smear or discredit this guy really should backfire on them as well. It doesn't really matter if this guy had legal issues or his license to practice suspended or was a poker player on the side. He could be all sorts of bad things and it isn't germane to the story. It's not like the airlines knew those things and that's why they acted the way they did. What's next, his mental history or perhaps allegations he was on something? As far as I can tell, it could've happened to any one of us. We might handle it better or not. I think United has the kind of money to research that type of thing. I think they anonymously gave that info to TMZ who would be quick to report something first. This is United's attempt at spin but so far isn't getting much traction.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 12:16:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 17:31:24 GMT
PS - what I said is not "inaccurate". Here is what I said: "But, as usual, the US laws kowtow to the corporations and allow these useless vouchers as repayment for real cash tickets," which is 100% true. The US laws DO allow the airline corps to offer vouchers rather than pay out their requirements to pay for the tickets at multiples of their purchase price. Instead US law could mandate the cash repayment ANY TIME someone is bumped, vs. allowing the airlines to hide behind "voluntary" vouchers which many passengers may feel is the only compensation they are allowed - because the airlines don't tell them about the mandatory payments UNLESS the involuntary bumping is enacted. So, while the airlines are still in a "we're looking for people to voluntarily give up their seats...." people don't know that they will be compensated at multiples of their ticket price by not taking the, useless to many, voucher offers. So, I stand by what I wrote. ? You're so weird. It's okay to not know something. The system is exactly the same in Europe in that they can request volunteers - so your statement of a different system in Europe versus the US was inaccurate. The US mandates cash payments - just like Europe. The airlines can try and entice volunteers - just like in Europe. I don't know if it is exactly the same. Is it ? I'm asking not questioning. Europe have different rules between voluntary and forced bumping. Volunteering to be bumped
If you volunteer to be bumped, it’s up to you and your airline to agree compensation. Often, airlines will make an announcement at the gate offering compensation, which might be cash or vouchers. When it is not your choice
If you are bumped without your agreement, you are entitled to compensation, as long as you checked-in for your flight on time. The level of compensation depends on the length of your flight and the timings of the alternative flight you are offered: and it's always in cash, airlines cannot offer compensation in vouchers if they force you off a flight and there's a table of how much depending on the flight distance so it varies. This applies to all airlines flying out of named European destinations. In addition to the aboveNo matter whether you volunteered or were forced to be bumped, your airline must also let you choose between two options: 1. Choose an alternative flight Your airline must offer you an alternative flight. It’s up to you whether to fly as soon as possible, or at a later date that suits you. Airlines often refer to this as being ‘rerouted’. If you want to fly as soon as possible, your airline must also provide care and assistance while you wait for the flight. This means food, drink, communications and accommodation, if you stay overnight. 2. Receive a refund If you don’t want to fly, you can get your money back instead. You’ll get a refund for all parts of the ticket you haven’t used. For instance, if you have booked a return flight and you are bumped from the outbound leg, you can get the full cost of the return ticket back from your airline. If you’re part-way through a journey, your airline should also provide a flight back to your starting point.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 17:38:16 GMT
? You're so weird. It's okay to not know something. The system is exactly the same in Europe in that they can request volunteers - so your statement of a different system in Europe versus the US was inaccurate. The US mandates cash payments - just like Europe. The airlines can try and entice volunteers - just like in Europe. I don't know if it is exactly the same. Is it ? I'm asling not questioning. Europe have different rules between voluntary and forced bumping.
..... Yes it's essentially the same - it's not exact as the actual cash compensation for involuntary bumping is different. But they have the same system of requesting volunteers where the airlines have the option of using vouchers and/or cash for incentive and if a passenger is involuntarily bumped they MUST be given cash compensation. ETA the financial compensation is actually potentially higher in the US - but they use time of delay: If you're delayed more than 1-2 hours 200% of your one way fare up to $675, more than 2 hours 400% of fare up to $1350. Where the EU it's based on length of trip: 250 EU if less than 1500k, 400 EU if 1500-3500k, and 600 EU - and they can reduce that 50% if they get you there within 4 hours.
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