Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 10:20:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 18:04:28 GMT
I don't know if it is exactly the same. Is it ? I'm asling not questioning. Europe have different rules between voluntary and forced bumping.
..... Yes it's essentially the same - it's not exact as the actual cash compensation for involuntary bumping is different. But they have the same system of requesting volunteers where the airlines have the option of using vouchers and/or cash for incentive and if a passenger is involuntarily bumped they MUST be given cash compensation. ETA the financial compensation is actually potentially higher in the US - but they use time of delay: If you're delayed more than 1-2 hours 200% of your one way fare up to $675, more than 2 hours 400% of fare up to $1350. Where the EU it's based on length of trip: 250 EU if less than 1500k, 400 EU if 1500-3500k, and 600 EU - and they can reduce that 50% if they get you there within 4 hours. They use time delay in Europe too. Is the compensation in the US in addition to a free re-scheduled flight and or your money back for the price of the original ticket? For short-haul flights that cover less than 1,500km: If the delay is less than two hours, you can claim €125 If the delay is more than two hours, you can claim €250 For medium-haul flights that cover 1,500km – 3,500km, or flights within the EU of more than 1,500km: If the delay is less than three hours, you can claim €200 If the delay is more than three hours, you can claim €400 For long-haul flights that cover more than 3,500km: If the delay is less than four hours, you can claim €300 If the delay is more than four hours, you can claim €600 They can't bump you once you are on the plane in Europe though.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 18:14:03 GMT
Yes it's essentially the same - it's not exact as the actual cash compensation for involuntary bumping is different. But they have the same system of requesting volunteers where the airlines have the option of using vouchers and/or cash for incentive and if a passenger is involuntarily bumped they MUST be given cash compensation. ETA the financial compensation is actually potentially higher in the US - but they use time of delay: If you're delayed more than 1-2 hours 200% of your one way fare up to $675, more than 2 hours 400% of fare up to $1350. Where the EU it's based on length of trip: 250 EU if less than 1500k, 400 EU if 1500-3500k, and 600 EU - and they can reduce that 50% if they get you there within 4 hours. They use time delay in Europe too. Is the compensation in the US in addition to a free re-scheduled flight and or your money back for the price of the original ticket? For short-haul flights that cover less than 1,500km: If the delay is less than two hours, you can claim €125 If the delay is more than two hours, you can claim €250 For medium-haul flights that cover 1,500km – 3,500km, or flights within the EU of more than 1,500km: If the delay is less than three hours, you can claim €200 If the delay is more than three hours, you can claim €400 For long-haul flights that cover more than 3,500km: If the delay is less than four hours, you can claim €300 If the delay is more than four hours, you can claim €600 They can't bump you once you are on the plane in Europe though. The cash compensation probably works out the same for many situations then, as you're right the US doesn't also include the refund- it's built into the 200% or 400%. You can absolutely be bumped from a plane in Europe though - although I'm sure it's rare like in the US - the airlines almost always take care of it before boarding. I was actually on a flight from London though where two passengers were issued the same seat assignment. They actually bumped the guy who's butt was in the seat. I'm sure the fact that the other person was actually traveling with additional people factored into who received the seat. But it wasn't exactly a pleasant process, and the passenger was not happy.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Apr 11, 2017 18:32:28 GMT
and this is a giant if - this man rushed on to a plane and is making crazy comments, then if I were a passenger, I'd be happy he were off the plane. The man does not appear to be a mentally healthy person. That clearly does not mean he has the right to be treated with anything but respect, but I am just flabbergasted that everyone is making judgments based on one small piece of information. We have absolutely NO IDEA what went on before. I think you're referring to this video? (Please correct me if I'm wrong) If this is the correct video then you must realize it was recorded after he had suffered some kind of head injury. I'm not surprised by his confusion and strange behavior at this point. You are right though, we don't know exactly what transpired prior to the original video recording but what is purported is that this person refused the "voluntary re-accommodation" citing he was a doctor and had patients to see and so had to travel. ETA: And FWIW, I didn't realize it was a 5-hour drive. Why the heck didn't United just offer the $800 and either a hotel or a rental car? Bet they're asking themselves the same question right now, lmao. Yes, the "rushing the plane" only happened after he was battered. My son experienced a concussion during a football game. We hadn't even realized he had been hit until he got home. His actions were so erratic and irregular and he was extremely combative that we started questioning if he had been hit during the game (he had). I tend to err on the side him rushing the plane, bloodied and bruised, confused and erratic was a result of a head injury as well.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Apr 11, 2017 18:35:32 GMT
The thing is, is that we do not know what happened prior to the video. We do not. It does not appear to me that United handled this well, but I can tell you if - and this is a giant if - this man rushed on to a plane and is making crazy comments, then if I were a passenger, I'd be happy he were off the plane.
The man does not appear to be a mentally healthy person. That clearly does not mean he has the right to be treated with anything but respect, but I am just flabbergasted that everyone is making judgments based on one small piece of information. We have absolutely NO IDEA what went on before. I have seen people removed from planes on several occasions and even when one was completely drunk, they didn't act like that man did. Adults just don't resolve their problems by flopping down and refusing to move!! One person in this thread suggested that this was like the Holocaust. WTF? This is an airlines misbehaving and a person misbehaving and both should have consequences. And FWIW, I didn't realize it was a 5-hour drive. Why the heck didn't United just offer the $800 and either a hotel or a rental car? People actually on the flight have stepped forward saying they were not upset by his actions at all, but rather by the airlines and police. In fact, I may be wrong, but I have not seen anyone on the flight come forward and say he was in the wrong. If you watch the videos other customers can be heard getting upset over how he was being treated. They WERE there. They DID see how it transpired. As for his mental health, that was after he was dragged from the plane and battered a bruised. I suspect those actions can be attributed to a head injury. Until my son experienced one, I had NO IDEA how out of character they can cause someone to act.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:20:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 18:41:33 GMT
They use time delay in Europe too. Is the compensation in the US in addition to a free re-scheduled flight and or your money back for the price of the original ticket? For short-haul flights that cover less than 1,500km: If the delay is less than two hours, you can claim €125 If the delay is more than two hours, you can claim €250 For medium-haul flights that cover 1,500km – 3,500km, or flights within the EU of more than 1,500km: If the delay is less than three hours, you can claim €200 If the delay is more than three hours, you can claim €400 For long-haul flights that cover more than 3,500km: If the delay is less than four hours, you can claim €300 If the delay is more than four hours, you can claim €600 They can't bump you once you are on the plane in Europe though. The cash compensation probably works out the same for many situations then, as you're right the US doesn't also include the refund- it's built into the 200% or 400%. You can absolutely be bumped from a plane in Europe though - although I'm sure it's rare like in the US - the airlines almost always take care of it before boarding. I was actually on a flight from London though where two passengers were issued the same seat assignment. They actually bumped the guy who's butt was in the seat. I'm sure the fact that the other person was actually traveling with additional people factored into who received the seat. But it wasn't exactly a pleasant process, and the passenger was not happy. Wonder how that happened.They normally come up as greyed out on the check in screen...weird.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:20:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 19:17:22 GMT
Let the parody ads begin:
Their competitors will be rejoicing.
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Post by cade387 on Apr 11, 2017 19:41:14 GMT
I just saw a meme on facebook (not sure how to post photos here) that says: "Southwest - we beat the competition. Not you." OMG....
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:20:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 20:00:57 GMT
#NewUnitedMotto
@alvinhuynh2
Welcome to @united airlines. Where we put the hospital in hospitality. Come as a doctor, leave as a patient.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:20:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 20:18:09 GMT
Finally, Munoz put out something approaching an apology (vs. that "re-accommodate" crap they spit out yesterday). Now let's see some actions!
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Post by flanz on Apr 11, 2017 20:18:32 GMT
Leaked letter from United's CEO praising employees - it's not going down well.
The Telegraphadding flames to the fire... i hope United suffers for this
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Post by flanz on Apr 11, 2017 20:24:09 GMT
It DOES NOT MATTER why he had to get home - he could have no reason at all. The point of view of some posters is the reason United Airlines, and other airlines pursue this course of action against its patrons in the first place. The attitude that the customer did something to deserve it, the customer shoulda woulda coulda it does not matter. The airline has one job and that is to get me from point A to point B safely. How they do it to earn my business is the rest of the puzzle. How they treat me, how much it costs, how much am I inconvenienced, that is their part of the bargain in getting my business. If I pay to fly on any airline and am treated rudely, disrespectfully, aggressively, hostily, then they are not worthy of my business, my money, or my time. YES!!!!
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Post by SnoopyFan on Apr 11, 2017 20:57:43 GMT
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Post by Night Owl on Apr 11, 2017 21:06:52 GMT
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Apr 11, 2017 22:05:08 GMT
ohhh some of the tweets have me in tears funny. the #newunitedmotto is the trend now. .. such a sad situation and not funny but they made the situation so bad.. and it looks nothing but bad for United. And now they are trying to slander the poor Drs past to excuse their behavior. I hope this does some serious damage to their industry. Like I said before I really hope he takes them to the cleaners. Love the tweets!!
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Post by pastlifepea on Apr 11, 2017 22:14:45 GMT
Someone needs to silence the Captain of the Douche Canoe, aka Mr. Munoz. The sorry-not-sorry apology, memo to employees "good job guys!", the now I really AM sorry apology. Keep digging, United, keep digging.
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Post by icequeen on Apr 11, 2017 22:20:34 GMT
I'm shocked they started boarding before having sufficient volunteers. I've had flights delayed as they won't commence boarding until enough people agree to give up their seat - I'm also shocked no one took them up on the $800 offer. It's always a hell of a lot harder to get people out of a seat then deny them boarding (which they can absolutely do per their contract of carriage for an overbooked flight). FYI They needed the seats for crew members needed for a subsequent flight in Louisville. This is my question too. Normally, if a flight is overbooked, they get volunteers at the gate BEFORE they're boarding, not after. They would know as people are checking in (pre-luggage drop & pre-security) if they don't have enough seats. It's not something you'd discover on the tarmac once all the seats are filled. Call me cynical, but my feeling is it was all about money. UA must have realized at the last minute they had no other way to get their staff to Louisville on time (due to no other convenient flight) and figured they'd play the "overbooked" card to free up four seats. Better to inconvenience four paying passengers than have to deal with being understaffed for your flight in the morning. SaveSave
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Post by pondrunner on Apr 11, 2017 22:41:35 GMT
I'm shocked they started boarding before having sufficient volunteers. I've had flights delayed as they won't commence boarding until enough people agree to give up their seat - I'm also shocked no one took them up on the $800 offer. It's always a hell of a lot harder to get people out of a seat then deny them boarding (which they can absolutely do per their contract of carriage for an overbooked flight). FYI They needed the seats for crew members needed for a subsequent flight in Louisville. This is my question too. Normally, if a flight is overbooked, they get volunteers at the gate BEFORE they're boarding, not after. They would know as people are checking in (pre-luggage drop & pre-security) if they don't have enough seats. It's not something you'd discover on the tarmac once all the seats are filled. Call me cynical, but my feeling is it was all about money. UA must have realized at the last minute they had no other way to get their staff to Louisville on time (due to no other convenient flight) and figured they'd play the "overbooked" card to free up four seats. Better to inconvenience four paying passengers than have to deal with being understaffed for your flight in the morning. SaveSaveAccording to the link gar posted above, the plane was fully boarded when the flight crew arrived and said they needed to get on that flight.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,447
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 11, 2017 23:19:44 GMT
Finally, Munoz put out something approaching an apology (vs. that "re-accommodate" crap they spit out yesterday). Now let's see some actions! Umm...yeah...that seems SO sincere after his previous "apology."
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Post by kellybelly77 on Apr 11, 2017 23:30:36 GMT
Finally, Munoz put out something approaching an apology (vs. that "re-accommodate" crap they spit out yesterday). Now let's see some actions! Only because their stock lost $1billion dollars today. Nothing he says at this point is sincere.
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Post by annabella on Apr 11, 2017 23:36:15 GMT
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Post by annabella on Apr 11, 2017 23:39:27 GMT
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2017 23:54:42 GMT
Finally, Munoz put out something approaching an apology (vs. that "re-accommodate" crap they spit out yesterday). Now let's see some actions! Only because their stock lost $1billion dollars today. Nothing he says at this point is sincere. fyi UAL lost about $250 million - down 1.13%
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Post by frenchie on Apr 12, 2017 0:05:10 GMT
The problem here is it wasn't any old passenger - it was a flight crew that needed to be in Louisville for a subsequent flight. I'm sure the plane load of people in Louisville wouldn't have been too pleased with their inability to fly because United couldn't get their crew to the airport. I haven't seen any report about whether this was a typical situation with the crew or a different flight or airport delay/cancellation impacted the crew. I'll reiterate my initial comment which is they never should have started boarding before they had their volunteers - BUT I do understand why they needed the crew in Louisville and weren't going to simply tell them you're the last ones here too bad so sad. And I know enough about crew scheduling now to know that they could have picked another crew from a different location. There are dozens if not hundreds of crew members on standby at any given time. If this particular crew had been unable to get to Louisville due to a mechanical problem with the plane, or due to bad weather, United would have had to find another crew. This happens all the time. There is always another option. They chose not to take it. I don't think there is any more to this story than that the doctor refused to get off, and United got heavy-handed. This is in no way any kind of defense for United, just giving my 2 cents on crew scheduling. I was a flight attendant for 25+ years for American Airlines. There are a lot of different legality issues at play sometimes and even if there are a lot of standbys, it doesn't mean they can just pick up any flight. Standbys are legal for a certain amount of flying hours, some will be legal for more than others. And then there is the issue of what type of aircraft a crew member can work. The Louisville flights look like they are operated by United Express. That's a "commuter" airline, which is operating in United's name, but their crew are probably not United employees. That's the way it was at American--American Eagle flights were not staffed by American flight attendants and pilots--they had their own crews. The "commuter" airlines have less employees than the larger airlines, so that alone cuts down significantly on crew availability--I am pretty sure that they don't have dozens of employees on standby waiting to staff flights, not to mention that standbys are only sitting in airports where there is a crew base. Someone else mentioned that the crew could be driven to Louisville. Yes, that's an option, but that driving time is going to be factored in to on-duty time. So now, we are back to the legality issues. The logistics can be much more complicated than they appear to passengers. With all that said, I have never seen anything like what happened to that poor passenger. I never saw a situation escalate to where a passenger was forcibly removed from a flight. Just unbelievable.
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Post by kellybelly77 on Apr 12, 2017 0:29:24 GMT
Only because their stock lost $1billion dollars today. Nothing he says at this point is sincere. fyi UAL lost about $250 million - down 1.13% Ah, it must have recovered some. At lunch when I saw the article it was down 4% or almost $1B.
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Post by QueSeraSera on Apr 12, 2017 4:24:26 GMT
This question is for those of you with knowledge of flight crews, etc WHY or HOW would the gate agents board an entire plane load of people (which takes quite a while as any traveler will attest) without realizing they had FOUR crew members standing around waiting to board? It looks like complete incompetence at every level with United.
I sure as hell hope these employees didn't take their sweet ass time strolling to the boarding gate until after the plane was boarded.
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Post by annabella on Apr 12, 2017 4:57:36 GMT
This question is for those of you with knowledge of flight crews, etc WHY or HOW would the gate agents board an entire plane load of people (which takes quite a while as any traveler will attest) without realizing they had FOUR crew members standing around waiting to board? It looks like complete incompetence at every level with United. I sure as hell hope these employees didn't take their sweet ass time strolling to the boarding gate until after the plane was boarded. I assumed the crew showed up at the gate after the plane boarded so it was a surprise to the gate agents.
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Post by frenchie on Apr 12, 2017 4:59:56 GMT
QueSeraSera, usually a deadeading crew -crew that will be passengers on a flight because they need to get to a city to work another flight-are put on the standby list as soon as the company realizes that the crew is needed in that other city. Depending on the need, some deadheading crew will have the highest boarding priority, even over full fare passengers. Sometimes the crew just has to get somewhere to work a flight the next day, so their boarding priority won't be as high. I'm just assuming that In this situation, the crew was needed in Louisville asap to work a flight back(probably to work that particular airplane because the crew working over to Louisville was laying over for the night and maybe weren't legal to work back to Chicago). It's definitely possible that the crew legalities were realized shortly before the flight to Louisville was leaving and they had to use standby crew members to deadhead to Louisville to cover the flight back. So, the agents may not necessarily have known before boarding the flight that they were going to have to get 4 crew members on the flight. I hope that makes sense. The agents at the gate sometimes have to take a lot of shit for things that they absolutely cannot control! It's definitely possible that the situation arose pretty quickly and they had to scramble to get the deadheading crew on board and it all just unraveled from there.
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oaksong
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,167
Location: LA Suburbia
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2014 6:24:29 GMT
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Post by oaksong on Apr 12, 2017 5:02:36 GMT
I find this situation so infuriating! It's more than just a guy being dragged off of a plane, which was horrific. It's the utter lack of respect and basic decency in the interest of corporate greed. It symbolizes to me everything that is wrong with America right now. Who in their right mind would escalate a situation to that level, just to make their boss happy? Does anyone working for UA in that terminal have any common sense at all?
Was an $800 voucher the max that they were allowed to offer, per some kind of cost-benefit analysis?
The irony is that they have one of the world's largest FLEETS of airplanes. Dial it back a notch, look at your available inventory, and send one of the CEO's corporate jets if you need to. I'll bet now they are wishing someone would have thought of that.
There are a lot of other ways this could have been resolved, but they're too busy saving 10 cents everywhere they can. With their stock plunge today, they're finding out that you can go too far with the bottom line.
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Post by QueSeraSera on Apr 12, 2017 5:02:52 GMT
I assumed the crew showed up at the gate after the plane boarded so it was a surprise to the gate agents. That just adds one more frustration if this turns out to be the case. I hope United takes a good long look and as a result completely revamps their pro-policy and anti-customer stance.
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Post by frenchie on Apr 12, 2017 5:03:02 GMT
This question is for those of you with knowledge of flight crews, etc WHY or HOW would the gate agents board an entire plane load of people (which takes quite a while as any traveler will attest) without realizing they had FOUR crew members standing around waiting to board? It looks like complete incompetence at every level with United. I sure as hell hope these employees didn't take their sweet ass time strolling to the boarding gate until after the plane was boarded. I assumed the crew showed up at the gate after the plane boarded so it was a surprise to the gate agents. It would be almost impossible for that to happen. Crew members must be put on the standby list by crew schedule if they are deadheading. Crew cannot just show up at a gate and tell the agents they need to be put on a flight.
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