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Post by MichyM on Aug 21, 2014 20:18:19 GMT
My two cents, for what it's worth. A young man near and dear to me contracted HPV just months before the vaccine was approved/recommended for males. The person he contracted it from had no symptoms, and no idea that he had it. This young man underwent several surgeries, and the awful recovery took over a year. It also completely messed with his psyche for a good long time. His life is changed forever (not being dramatic). He is currently in remission, but it could recur AT ANY TIME.
Knowing this, if I had a preteen or teen child, I would not hesitate to have them get the vaccine. The chances of contracting HPV in one's lifetime are many times higher than the chances of having a negative reaction to the vaccine.
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Aug 21, 2014 22:03:24 GMT
There are two issues at hand with this.
One is that people did not talk about cancer a generation or two ago. Women did not die from cervical cancer, the died from "female problems." As a result, family histories are skewed. Not that this is hereditary, but the knowledge that Grandma Franny really died from cervical cancer is not in the realm of awareness for many. Then, add that to the issue I already spoke about- the great decrease in cervical cancer within the last generation or two. These two issues make is so that people think it really isn't that important.
Would you vaccinate your kids to prevent breast cancer? Cervical cancer was once far more common than breast cancer yest breast cancer is the one that seems to strike the most fear. Much easier to remove a breast than to remove a cancer that has penetrated the cervix. The latter is inoperable for most and generally, a death sentence.
Yes, only a small percentage of people with HPV develop cancer. But that percentage is much higher with certain strains of HPV. The strains covered in the various available vaccines are the most virulent. It just so happens that by covering for these, you get some cross reactivity and you get coverage for some of the more benign forms that cause warts.
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Post by cookiemum on Aug 21, 2014 22:30:16 GMT
Given the above response, what are your thoughts on doing PAP every 3 years as now suggested? Would that vary for those who have had prior abnormals? After how many years if so on abnormals?
A circle of ladies and I recently were discussing this and several had had prior abnormals. Many practitioners were changing to every 3 years after 3 normals - others kept doing annuals.
I'm not a medical professional but I was very surprised to find when I first moved to Australia that the norm was every 2 years for a Pap smear unless you'd had an abnormal one then it was every year until you had 2 or 3 clear then it went back to every 2 years. I think it's the same for mammograms as well unless you've had an abnormal reading. This is off topic and a tidbit that's sure to freak out most Americans. When you get a Pap smear and I think a mammogram (I could be wrong), your name is entered into a national database. If the 2 years passes and you've not had another one, you get a letter reminding you to book in with your doctor. How's that for Big Brother?
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Aug 21, 2014 22:36:43 GMT
Good insurance companies work the same way. My insurance company will occasionally ask me to get a mammo even though I no longer have breasts. They also remind my doctor's office.
Yes, the new normal is every 3 years. Cuts down on false negatives. In the old days, depending on severity, you'd go every 3 months for a year and then every 6 months and then eventually back to annual. Today, the follow up schedule is much more complex and involves age, the actual pap result and the HPV result (including type).
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Aug 21, 2014 22:46:23 GMT
I would never try to convince someone else that they should not vaccinate their child, but to this point we chose not to vaccinate dd, now 14, against HPV. There were a number of reasons for our decision. While there are links between HPV and cancer, my research indicated that it is a very small percentage of people who get HPV who later get cancer, and that there are likely other risk factors. Doctors and pharmaceutical companies are not infallible (think Thalidomide; and the company that produces the HPV vaccine also produced Vioxx (?) which was linked to deaths and later pulled). There were no studies on potential long term effects of the vaccine when given to children. I do not recall now whether initial testing was even down on adolescents or only on adult women. What really turned me off though, was that here in Ontario, Canada, the vaccine was offered province wide, free of cost, to girls in grade 8. But if a parent chose to delay, and have their dd vaccinated later at their physician's, they would have to pay out of pocket. That is not an issue for us, and if at some point we decide to get dd vaccinated, cost will not prevent that. But it left a really bad taste in my mouth and seemed as though they were pressuring people, especially those on low incomes, to 'do it now or else miss out'. I figured that if it was important enough for the province to pay for when a child is in grade eight, why not in grade nine or grade ten? Dd is aware of our reasoning, we have discussed it with her, as well as letting her know that she can discuss it with our doctor privately if she chooses, and that if at any time she feels that this is something she wants, based on her own research and feelings, then we will see that she gets vaccinated. I am generally pro vaccine. Our children have all of the mandated vaccinations and we had them vaccinated for chicken pox as well. But I decided to forgo the generous offer of a free vaccination when dd was in grade 8 and am not entirely convinced that is in her best interests to vaccinate against HPV. Again, I am not totally opposed to it and don't think people are making a mistake to proceed with vaccination. But I did not want to feel pushed or pressured into it in dd's last year of elementary school. I would like to see the research. This is not my area of expertise, but again, I know a lot of researchers and health care professionals, and I have not come across one person who is opposed, and so I would really like some genuine information that people are using if it exists. In addition, your experience is why public health officials struggle. Stuff like that and what happened in Texas does leave a bad taste and makes people feel really uncomfortable. I understand, and while you don't want to persuade anyone to change their mind, I do, and I would hope that you might reconsider, and do more research into the vaccine.
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Post by perfectcircles on Aug 21, 2014 23:02:11 GMT
DH's ex-wife & I were hesitant to get it when DSD was 9, because it was new & we weren't as well educated as we'd thought.
A couple weeks ago I found out my 20 year old niece contracted HPV. Her first and only intimate boyfriend has shown no symptoms. I'm grateful that my sister had her vaccinated and that because of it she is less likely to get cancer. It put everything into perspective.
Coincidentally a couple days later the ex-wife called me to discuss DSD's 12 year shots. She asked how I felt about it and said she'd been reconsidering the HPV shot. It was a very brief conversation & DSD will be getting it next week.
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Post by Tamhugh on Aug 21, 2014 23:19:59 GMT
Is the vaccine useless once the child in question has become sexually active? And what is the oldest it is recommended for males? I have seen different ages listed when I have tried to research it.
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Post by SallyPA on Aug 22, 2014 0:33:36 GMT
((Oh, those pesky gay men, causing an epidemic of throat cancer in your city. What an ignorant, IRRELEVANT statement.))
Calm down. You read way more into her statement than was actually there. The FACT is that it causes throat cancer in heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and whatever other variations there are.
The ONLY people who are immune are those people who have never had sex OR who have only ever had one partner and that partner must have only ever had them as a partner. SO that eliminates about 99% of the population.
FWIW, in my office, we do paps on women with a cervix every year. And every 3 years if there is no cervix left. My doc doesn't like the new recommendations.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,025
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 22, 2014 0:42:25 GMT
Is the vaccine useless once the child in question has become sexually active? And what is the oldest it is recommended for males? I have seen different ages listed when I have tried to research it. The oldest age for a male to be vaccinated is 21. I know this , because our family doctor just told me last month. But if he I sexually active at an earlier age, the shots need to happen before then. I assume this vaccine won't be effective forever. At some point, they will probably need a booster,. Like every other vaccine.
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Post by SallyPA on Aug 22, 2014 0:42:45 GMT
Is the vaccine useless once the child in question has become sexually active? And what is the oldest it is recommended for males? I have seen different ages listed when I have tried to research it. Looky there - guess I figured out the quote feature lol! The vaccine is NOT useless once a female has become sexually active. If she has not been exposed to the high risk strains of virus, then it would still mount an immune response and be effective against those strains if she were to become exposed during her life. However, if she has been exposed to the high risk strains(which, really, there is no way to know; you can assume exposure if there are warts or other std's but no real way to know) then it may or may not be effective. The fewer lifetime partners a person has, the fewer the risk of contracting hpv. I lean towards more benefit of vaccinating than the risk to do so and recommend vaccination even if a female has been sexually active. Also, let's not forget the benefit of vaccination on genital warts - decreases incidence by 90%. Warts aren't cancer but they are horrible for a patient who has them. Totally embarassing and less than pleasant to have removed. Usually will take several treatments and may even require laser removal in surgery for extensive warts. So decreasing that risk is also important.
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Post by smokey2471 on Aug 22, 2014 5:49:14 GMT
Thank you all for taking the time to answer. I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to this discussion. Two of my children and DH started to run fever that night and I have been dealing with that. I appreciate all the opinions. Thank you Melissa and Raindancer (sorry if I missed anyone) for giving us professional input.
My DH (Lillie's step father) and I are leaning towards getting the vaccine. Lillie and I are going to speak to the Doctor. We have an appointment in 2 weeks. We let them know the nature of the appointment. The only drawback I have right now is the lack of long term data. Lillie will be 13 in a few months and she is a little confused and I am including her in the decision and Dr visit not so much as to make her make the final decision but to role model how to ask questions at a Dr appointment and how to communicate with medical professionals and not be hesitant or a grain to ask questions.
Lillie's Father and step mother are more opposed. He really is unsure as I was about the whole thing and has been researching it online. I value his wife's opinion and while the step parents will not have a final say They love the children and have their best interest at heart. He is military and we do not live in the same state. I suggested that he and his wife talk to her Gyno about it. His opinions on vaccines and some minor health topics are vastly different than mine. He is opposed to fluoride and is a little more holistic than I am. I have the final say reguarding medical treatment per court order but I will certainly take his objections/thoughts into consideration.
My oldest is 17 and says he has not been sexually active. He has had 1 relationship that if he had sex with anyone it would have been her. According to her mother she is also not sexually active. DH has offered at anytime and no questions asked to purchase condoms if he needs them. I'm going to ask Dr when we visit. He has no opinion on it and quite frankly is lazy and will not do research himself. lol.
So thank you all and I'm also pleased that this discussion stayed civil and I really like how everyone seems to be playing nice since the move.
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Post by penny on Aug 22, 2014 7:21:57 GMT
I don't have kids, and was/am too old for the vaccine... I can't give you advice or information about the vaccine... I can tell you what it's like to find out you test positive for a high risk strain of HPV... The various 'inspections' as I took to calling them, the tests/procedures, being watched for years (procedure here is you continue with 'inspections' until you have two years with no abnormal results)... It means an increased risk of cancer for me... It means an increased risk of cancer for him... You feel on edge - like you're one appointment away from bad news, and feel horrible because you're now a 'risk factor' for the guy you love...
To whoever suggested it wasn't necessary or as big a deal for boys/males, do research... I can't give you all the specifics, but it DOES increase the risk for male cancers as well... Have oral sex? Add in those cancers too... Don't even get me started on the ideology that I heard once - 'if we vaccinate all the females, the males don't need to be'... Really? Because it can't be passed from male to male? Because it can only be passed on through penetrative sex? Or because there's a different value placed on female sexuality/sexual health than male sexuality/sexual health? All males have to do is show up - females will handle the contraception, disease prevention, and consequences of unplanned pregnancies... Sorry - pet peeve of mine...
I'm not advocating for the vaccines - complicated and personal decision... Just sharing my experience of having to deal with a high risk HPV diagnosis...
ETA: I was infected through an assault... A lot of people think there's no risk if there's no sex... I'm proof that's not accurate... Your kids might not be having sex, but there are other activities that also put them at risk... Their definition of sexual activity may be different than yours, and it may include behaviour that puts them at risk for HPV...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by AussieMeg on Aug 22, 2014 7:36:05 GMT
Given the above response, what are your thoughts on doing PAP every 3 years as now suggested? Would that vary for those who have had prior abnormals? After how many years if so on abnormals?
A circle of ladies and I recently were discussing this and several had had prior abnormals. Many practitioners were changing to every 3 years after 3 normals - others kept doing annuals.
I'm not a medical professional but I was very surprised to find when I first moved to Australia that the norm was every 2 years for a Pap smear unless you'd had an abnormal one then it was every year until you had 2 or 3 clear then it went back to every 2 years. I think it's the same for mammograms as well unless you've had an abnormal reading. This is off topic and a tidbit that's sure to freak out most Americans. When you get a Pap smear and I think a mammogram (I could be wrong), your name is entered into a national database. If the 2 years passes and you've not had another one, you get a letter reminding you to book in with your doctor. How's that for Big Brother? I'm curious as to why you think Americans would freak out about getting a reminder letter when they're due for a pap smear? Which reminds me, I got my reminder letter from the Victorian Cervical Cytology Registry 2 weeks ago, I must make an appointment....... (That was after I had already received a reminder from my doctor in May - ooops, I'm 3 months overdue!)
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 8:21:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 8:18:52 GMT
Very, very informative discussion. I will be considering this for my son.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Aug 22, 2014 10:34:30 GMT
DH's ex-wife & I were hesitant to get it when DSD was 9, because it was new & we weren't as well educated as we'd thought. A couple weeks ago I found out my 20 year old niece contracted HPV. Her first and only intimate boyfriend has shown no symptoms. I'm grateful that my sister had her vaccinated and that because of it she is less likely to get cancer. It put everything into perspective. Coincidentally a couple days later the ex-wife called me to discuss DSD's 12 year shots. She asked how I felt about it and said she'd been reconsidering the HPV shot. It was a very brief conversation & DSD will be getting it next week. I think it is very admirable you and Dh's ex get along this well. Your step daughter is a very lucky girl.
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Post by melanell on Aug 22, 2014 13:03:30 GMT
This is off topic and a tidbit that's sure to freak out most Americans. When you get a Pap smear and I think a mammogram (I could be wrong), your name is entered into a national database. If the 2 years passes and you've not had another one, you get a letter reminding you to book in with your doctor. How's that for Big Brother? We get reminders from our doctor's offices all of the time. It's a convenience. Definitely not something I freak out about at all. A letter to tell you that your last mammogram was this many years ago, or an email to tell you that your last pap was in such a such a time, or a robocall about flu shots. Very common and I never give any of them any thought beyond being glad that I don't have to keep track of all of that.
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Aug 22, 2014 13:08:48 GMT
But the reminder difference is that in the US, it's not coming from the government! In the US, there are people who would freak at a national database with reminders for things like paps, mammos, colonscopies, etc.
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Post by shevy on Aug 22, 2014 13:11:09 GMT
Given the above response, what are your thoughts on doing PAP every 3 years as now suggested? Would that vary for those who have had prior abnormals? After how many years if so on abnormals?
A circle of ladies and I recently were discussing this and several had had prior abnormals. Many practitioners were changing to every 3 years after 3 normals - others kept doing annuals.
I'm not a medical professional but I was very surprised to find when I first moved to Australia that the norm was every 2 years for a Pap smear unless you'd had an abnormal one then it was every year until you had 2 or 3 clear then it went back to every 2 years. I think it's the same for mammograms as well unless you've had an abnormal reading. This is off topic and a tidbit that's sure to freak out most Americans. When you get a Pap smear and I think a mammogram (I could be wrong), your name is entered into a national database. If the 2 years passes and you've not had another one, you get a letter reminding you to book in with your doctor. How's that for Big Brother? I'm curious as to why you think Americans would freak out about getting a reminder letter when they're due for a pap smear? Which reminds me, I got my reminder letter from the Victorian Cervical Cytology Registry 2 weeks ago, I must make an appointment....... (That was after I had already received a reminder from my doctor in May - ooops, I'm 3 months overdue!) I can only say for me, but getting the call that I needed to schedule a mammogram after having a mastecomy and being diagnosed with anxiety & depression really freaked me out. I wish there was a way that your insurance and doctor could opt you out of the reminder letters, pop ups on your online account and emails about things that don't pertain to you.
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Post by cookiemum on Aug 23, 2014 10:30:59 GMT
But the reminder difference is that in the US, it's not coming from the government! In the US, there are people who would freak at a national database with reminders for things like paps, mammos, colonscopies, etc. This. A reminder from your doctor's office is one thing, getting a letter from the government is completely different. Having the government in your everyday business took quite a while for me to get used to as it goes against the American way of thinking. Every shot that a child gets here is entered into their "blue book" or red book or whatever colour it is that they get at the hospital when they are born regardless of where it's given (GP, clinic, school, hospital), along with the date and lot number of the vaccine. All that is then sent to the National Immunization Register (or whatever it's called). In a way it's really good because if you lose your blue book or whatever, you can get a copy from Medicare (our national healthcare service). But, it's government in your personal business...
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Post by scrappinjen on Aug 23, 2014 14:31:16 GMT
Can I ask if you have had Pap smears or would you want your daughters to get them? I researched the side effects and didn't find anything that would keep me from immunizing the kids. I figured if I worry enough about cervical cancer to have regular Pap smears it must be something to be diligent about protecting my kids from. Both of my boys have had it with no reactions. My 3 other kids will get it as well. A shot to protect against cancer-in my mind is a gift. I wish more forms of cancer could be prevented as easily. Although government dictating health care is not my favorite-the upside if that is the insurance companies in those states will them cover the shots.
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ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,083
Location: Valley of the Sun
Jul 26, 2014 21:02:07 GMT
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Aug 23, 2014 15:30:05 GMT
I don't have kids, and was/am too old for the vaccine... I can't give you advice or information about the vaccine... I can tell you what it's like to find out you test positive for a high risk strain of HPV... The various 'inspections' as I took to calling them, the tests/procedures, being watched for years (procedure here is you continue with 'inspections' until you have two years with no abnormal results)... It means an increased risk of cancer for me... It means an increased risk of cancer for him... You feel on edge - like you're one appointment away from bad news, and feel horrible because you're now a 'risk factor' for the guy you love... To whoever suggested it wasn't necessary or as big a deal for boys/males, do research... I can't give you all the specifics, but it DOES increase the risk for male cancers as well... Have oral sex? Add in those cancers too... Don't even get me started on the ideology that I heard once - 'if we vaccinate all the females, the males don't need to be'... Really? Because it can't be passed from male to male? Because it can only be passed on through penetrative sex? Or because there's a different value placed on female sexuality/sexual health than male sexuality/sexual health? All males have to do is show up - females will handle the contraception, disease prevention, and consequences of unplanned pregnancies... Sorry - pet peeve of mine... I'm not advocating for the vaccines - complicated and personal decision... Just sharing my experience of having to deal with a high risk HPV diagnosis... ETA: I was infected through an assault... A lot of people think there's no risk if there's no sex... I'm proof that's not accurate... Your kids might not be having sex, but there are other activities that also put them at risk... Their definition of sexual activity may be different than yours, and it may include behaviour that puts them at risk for HPV... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Thank you for sharing that.
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