oblibby
Full Member
Posts: 211
Location: Bonnie Scotland
Jul 10, 2014 10:30:12 GMT
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Post by oblibby on Aug 23, 2014 10:01:53 GMT
I get No info in my feed daily but I have liked various Better Together pages. To pick up on what AussieMeg said, there will absolutely be a large number who will vote Yes purely to stick two fingers up at England. In sports tournaments where Scotland has been knocked out and you ask folk who they will be supporting the response is often "anyone except England". When we first moved here it was made clear to us that we Incomers were not welcome and there is still a lot of anti-English feeling here. Without a doubt they will be voting yes without even considering the arguments. I'm sorry you were made to feel like that. I'm so glad don't know anyone who actually has vile views like that. My English and overseas friends all love it here and are planning on living here permanently. We do sometimes say the 'anyone but England' but it's always lighthearted and generally a result of sports commentators going on and on and on (and on) about England winning something donkeys years ago when it holds no relevance now
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 23, 2014 11:45:48 GMT
"Better Together" is a catchy slogan, but I read that it was re-thought as being perceived as condescending, so they've switched to "No Thanks," borrowed from the "Non Merci" side of the Quebec referendum.
I also read that the undecided voters (10-20%) are predicted to vote "Yes." I would have thought it would go the other way - that Undecideds would err on the side of caution.
This is so interesting. Especially the accounts of families split right down the middle. Are emotions riding high? I can't imagine the vitriol that would result from an equivalent issue in the US. (I might be naïve, but I hold out hope that people have more civilized political discourse in other countries…)
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Post by jmurray on Aug 23, 2014 12:04:56 GMT
As for how I'm voting, I have no idea. I'm completely on the fence and remain to be convinced. I think the quality of debate and of unbiased information has been appalling - each side has said one thing, the opposite side has said the opposite. It's almost laughable! I'm uneasy about the whole thing because many people (particularly 16 and 17 year olds) seem to be making snap decisions based on a sense of Scottish pride and nationalism and I would far rather it be a balanced, educated one.
And that is what worries me about this whole thing. The majority of the younger generation seem to have swung towards a yes vote, but could well be making their decision based on an attitude of "F*ck you England!" Like I-95 mentioned, what about the currency, getting your own military, health care system... As she said, I fear Scotland could be in a world of hurt if it goes through.
I tend to agree with this. It's not just the younger generation though, it's the "uninformed" that are often in the majority who vote emotionally rather than logically that can sometimes set a country on a dangerous path. I'm not informed enough to say whether I would vote yes or no, but on the face of it I think I'd go with no. But I'm a huge avoider of risk so that's my emotions ruling my logic
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Post by gillyp on Aug 23, 2014 13:55:16 GMT
I get No info in my feed daily but I have liked various Better Together pages. To pick up on what AussieMeg said, there will absolutely be a large number who will vote Yes purely to stick two fingers up at England. In sports tournaments where Scotland has been knocked out and you ask folk who they will be supporting the response is often "anyone except England". When we first moved here it was made clear to us that we Incomers were not welcome and there is still a lot of anti-English feeling here. Without a doubt they will be voting yes without even considering the arguments. I'm sorry you were made to feel like that. I'm so glad don't know anyone who actually has vile views like that. My English and overseas friends all love it here and are planning on living here permanently. We do sometimes say the 'anyone but England' but it's always lighthearted and generally a result of sports commentators going on and on and on (and on) about England winning something donkeys years ago when it holds no relevance now I understand why many are anti English but it's a shame that they themselves don't, they are just copying their fathers, grandfathers etc.. The funny thing is, I have lived here over 20 years and most young people now think I am local, despite my obvious English accent, because I've been here since before they were born!
And that is what worries me about this whole thing. The majority of the younger generation seem to have swung towards a yes vote, but could well be making their decision based on an attitude of "F*ck you England!" Like I-95 mentioned, what about the currency, getting your own military, health care system... As she said, I fear Scotland could be in a world of hurt if it goes through.
I tend to agree with this. It's not just the younger generation though, it's the "uninformed" that are often in the majority who vote emotionally rather than logically that can sometimes set a country on a dangerous path. I'm not informed enough to say whether I would vote yes or no, but on the face of it I think I'd go with no. But I'm a huge avoider of risk so that's my emotions ruling my logic I am a risk taker! I usually say "Give it a go, why not, what harm would it do?" I think people have more regrets by not taking that step into the unknown but to me a Yes vote is a risk too far. There will be no going back. I'm not voting No because I'm English, I'm voting No because I truly believe it's the best for Scotland. I also believe it's best for me personally. I own a business, employing 7. I am responsible for their livelihood, including my daughter in law's as she works with me. We have clung on through the years of recession and can see things are slowly turning round. The uncertainty of an economy under independence when we've struggled for so long over the last few years is hugely frightening. This is an old report but if the biggest companies are talking of leaving, where does that leave the rest of us?
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Post by Sam on Aug 23, 2014 19:48:35 GMT
OH is Scottish and feels very displaced and annoyed because he has spent the vast majority of his life in Scotland. He moved here because that is where I have the better job for us (he can work remotely). He is a 'No' vote. His sister and BIL wavered but are trending towards yes. His Aunt is a definite 'yes'.
As a family, we haven't really gone into an involved discussion other than a straw poll over the issue.
From my side, my father's family is Scottish, but moved down here a generation ago. My personal view is that a yes vote could be a negative for both 'sides' and I would rather see the countries united than divided.
I also suspect, in the event of a yes vote, that the practicalities have not been thought out well enough to the ultimate conclusion.
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Post by pmk on Aug 23, 2014 20:09:30 GMT
It's very interesting to hear people's perceptions about the issue. Dh and I were in London a couple of weeks ago and were travelling on a very crowded tube train. I couldn't believe it when a man who was reading a newspaper turned to the man next to him and said "Scottish inpendence, as if those cretins could organise themselves. It would be chaos". Thankfully we only had to suffer one stop after he said it. Sadly it appears negative feelings towards those from somewhere else are not always Scots vs. English. Those words and the scornful way they were said would have been enough to make many Scots think independence was a great idea! The division being created, within Scotland as well as between Scotland and England, is terrifying.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 23, 2014 20:55:13 GMT
It's very interesting to hear people's perceptions about the issue. Dh and I were in London a couple of weeks ago and were travelling on a very crowded tube train. I couldn't believe it when a man who was reading a newspaper turned to the man next to him and said "Scottish inpendence, as if those cretins could organise themselves. It would be chaos". Thankfully we only had to suffer one stop after he said it. Sadly it appears negative feelings towards those from somewhere else are not always Scots vs. English. Those words and the scornful way they were said would have been enough to make many Scots think independence was a great idea! The division being created, within Scotland as well as between Scotland and England, is terrifying. ummm, yes it doesn't sound nice - but to be honest, in that particular case I think you were hearing a political comment rather than a personal one against the Scots......you did say the man was reading a newspaper and commented on it to the man next to him. I've heard things like that and worse said about political parties here!
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Post by pmk on Aug 24, 2014 7:24:11 GMT
Funny that when it's English to Scottish it's a political comment! I'm genuinely not starting an argument, I just wanted to say that prejudice (if it's appropriate to call it that) works both ways - disparaging comments, whether political or not, cause hurt, unrest etc. and often cause knee jerk reactions (like voting without thinking through the issues properly).
I'm not enjoying living in Scotland at the moment but I'm not sure it will be any better once 18th September is over.
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Post by gar on Aug 24, 2014 7:35:28 GMT
Funny that when it's English to Scottish it's a political comment! I wrote out a response and then re-read the comments between you, pmk and Barbara and rethought it. If the guy on the train was talking about the Scottish government then cretins isn't a nice word but it's sort of 'allowed' if you like, it's the norm to slate our politicians. But if he was talking about the Scottish people then no, that's not a political comment.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 24, 2014 9:48:27 GMT
Funny that when it's English to Scottish it's a political comment! I'm genuinely not starting an argument, I just wanted to say that prejudice (if it's appropriate to call it that) works both ways - disparaging comments, whether political or not, cause hurt, unrest etc. and often cause knee jerk reactions (like voting without thinking through the issues properly). I'm not enjoying living in Scotland at the moment but I'm not sure it will be any better once 18th September is over. I apologise if that offended you, it wasn't meant as that kind of comment! I'm pretty sure that you have, at some time, read something in a newspaper or watched the news on the subject of Scottish independence and other things and made a disparaging comment about Westminster politicians, as I have, and that is where I was coming from with that comment! You said the man was reading a newspaper and commented to the man next to him. Yes, prejudice works both ways and when a comment is intended as such I detest it on any subject.
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Post by gillyp on Aug 24, 2014 23:42:40 GMT
I'm not enjoying living in Scotland at the moment but I'm not sure it will be any better once 18th September is over. I'm sorry that you feel like that.
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