amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,401
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on May 4, 2017 18:29:00 GMT
If you go with the theory that the family couldn't use their teenagers seat/ticket why would they ALL be asked to leave the plane? After all they had paid for 2 other seats and were already sitting in them. That is the part that isn't sitting right with me. Well that and Delta threatening them with jail time. WTH???
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Post by annabella on May 4, 2017 18:30:14 GMT
IMO.if I buy something, it's mine. Whether it's a movie ticket or a plane ticket, I should damn well be able to give it to whoever the hell I want. It's MINE. It BELONGS to ME. No the airline needs to have a record of every name on the flight. They also make money off of name changes. They have no fly lists, I remember some Senator with a very common name was on it and couldn't get himself off it and pointed out how absurd it was.
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Post by dnkmmw on May 4, 2017 18:31:15 GMT
One thing I thought about, and I could be way off base here, was maybe the airline automatically cancelled the ticket for the teen when the new ticket was purchased. If someone is booked on a flight, then they book another flight that they can't possibly be on, would that raise some questions? I don't think they are that sophisticated? That would create an algorithm to do background research on every ticket purchase just for the hell of it. Although I know that Israel Airlines questions anyone with one way tickets. I was just speculating What got me on that line of thought was frequent flyer miles. If he has an account, and they were planning to use his ticket for the toddler, he'd get miles for two flights. Then I thought maybe the system would flag a traveler with multiple flights that they couldn't be on. Once he boards the first, he can't be on the second. You are right though, there's probably too much to a search like that.
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Post by annabella on May 4, 2017 18:31:54 GMT
If you go with the theory that the family couldn't use their teenagers seat/ticket why would they ALL be asked to leave the plane? After all they had paid for 2 other seats and were already sitting in them. That is the part that isn't sitting right with me. Well that and Delta threatening them with jail time. WTH??? That's the big issue here, the airline industry has this attitude of my way or the highway, get an attitude with a stewardess and you will be kicked off. And also maybe the family wanted to stay together.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,840
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on May 4, 2017 18:36:21 GMT
That's the mistake right there, IMO. You can't just give your ticket to someone else. Which is offensive, IMO.if I buy something, it's mine. Whether it's a movie ticket or a plane ticket, I should damn well be able to give it to whoever the hell I want. It's MINE. It BELONGS to ME. An airplane ticket is subject to the rules of the contract under which it was purchased. There are many rules and regulations regarding air travel. including federal regulations. This isn't a movie ticket, which doesn't require 24+ hours of advance notice of people who will be flying. There are terms and conditions. READ the FINE PRINT.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,792
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on May 4, 2017 18:40:45 GMT
That's the mistake right there, IMO. You can't just give your ticket to someone else. Which is offensive, IMO.if I buy something, it's mine. Whether it's a movie ticket or a plane ticket, I should damn well be able to give it to whoever the hell I want. It's MINE. It BELONGS to ME. Except for the whole terrorism thing... Save
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 4, 2017 18:40:51 GMT
An airplane ticket is subject to the rules of the contract under which it was purchased. There are many rules and regulations regarding air travel. including federal regulations. This isn't a movie ticket, which doesn't require 24+ hours of advance notice of people who will be flying. There are terms and conditions. READ the FINE PRINT. Yep. DH worked in the airline industry for many years and has recently got into heated discussions with people as these stories have broken. As a consumer you have to understand you're giving up quite a few rights when you purchase that ticket. There are always 3 sides to every story, but the part that people keep getting hung up on is the fine print on their ticket and the belief that the airline can't do what you have AGREED could happen when you purchased the ticket.
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Post by bc2ca on May 4, 2017 18:47:23 GMT
If you go with the theory that the family couldn't use their teenagers seat/ticket why would they ALL be asked to leave the plane? After all they had paid for 2 other seats and were already sitting in them. That is the part that isn't sitting right with me. Well that and Delta threatening them with jail time. WTH??? If dad had moved the child to his lap, they wouldn't have be removed from the plane. They obviously couldn't remove a 2 year alone , so it is the noncooperative adult that was removed. Mom couldn't take two lap babies, so then faced the choice to stay with one child and continue the flight or leave. (or maybe Delta deemed that the traveling group had to leave and she didn't have a choice). SaveSave
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 4, 2017 18:54:53 GMT
Schear explained to KABC that he’d sent his 18-year-old son home on an earlier flight so the 2-year-old could have the seat. Bingo. If you want your 2 year old to have a seat, buy them a seat outright and put their name on it. Having flown with an under 2 and on my lap (and a blowout diaper in front of first class) I know what a PITA it can be. I also know if you want them to sit in a seat, you have to pony up the cash. I am confused about the car seat comment in that they are not permitted...are there car seats that are not compliant with FAA regulations? Yes, there are. I got into it with a very pissy ticket agent about it when he insisted they weren't going to let me take it on the plane AFTER I showed him my proof that it's FAA certified. He just brushed me off (this was at the ticket counter, so he dismissed me thinking the gate agent could deal with me) and the gate agent didn't even blink. Stewardess helped DH get the seatbelt extender and we plopped the kid in there for the ride. Ours had a sticker on the side indicating it was FAA approved. The kid who used it is now 11, so things may have changed in the intervening years however.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on May 4, 2017 18:57:34 GMT
An airplane ticket is subject to the rules of the contract under which it was purchased. There are many rules and regulations regarding air travel. including federal regulations. This isn't a movie ticket, which doesn't require 24+ hours of advance notice of people who will be flying. There are terms and conditions. READ the FINE PRINT. Yep. DH worked in the airline industry for many years and has recently got into heated discussions with people as these stories have broken. As a consumer you have to understand you're giving up quite a few rights when you purchase that ticket. There are always 3 sides to every story, but the part that people keep getting hung up on is the fine print on their ticket and the belief that the airline can't do what you have AGREED could happen when you purchased the ticket. We need changes to the fine print, then. If I'm the type to buy a ticket for a terrorist presumably I should already be on a watch list/no fly list, so I'm not buying that. either refund my ticket, or if I need to give to to another family member, that's my right.
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Post by deekaye on May 4, 2017 19:02:57 GMT
I fly a lot for both business and pleasure. I'm waiting for the marketing department of a major airline to realize that if they advertised that they don't overbook, they would have SCADS of us wanting to fly with them. I flew Delta last week and they were offering $800 to four passengers because they were overbooked. I was flying on the government's dime (not my own) and we aren't allowed to bump, otherwise I would have. Jet blue doesn't overbook and advertises that fact. Good to know. I've never flown Jet Blue... may need to look in to them!
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Post by annabella on May 4, 2017 19:03:57 GMT
www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-11-07/whats-in-a-name-the-truth-about-name-changes-on-airline-ticketsAccording to the airlines, there's much in a name. Most tickets cannot be transferred, so don't expect to give yours to someone else. On Sunday, Jordan Axani took to Reddit looking for Canadians named Elizabeth Gallagher. He wants to find someone who can use the around-the-world ticket he purchased for his ex—also named Elizabeth Gallagher. He's not looking for money. He simply doesn't want the ticket to go to waste. Since the ticket, like most airline tickets, is non-transferable, without an Elizabeth Gallagher to use it, the shredder would be its most likely resting place. The story here is that airlines will sometimes tell you the reason tickets are non-transferable is for security purposes. In truth, from a government policy perspective, you can change the name on a ticket. The ticket simply needs to match the passenger's identification on the day of travel. In fact, the D.O.T., on its Fly-Rights page, even notes a possible exception to that: "If your name has recently changed and the name on your ticket and your I.D. are different (or will be different by the time of your trip), bring documentation of the change (e.g., a marriage certificate or court order)." Back to the reason for non-transferable tickets: What's really happening is that airlines want to control their revenue. In the days when you could transfer tickets, consolidators would scoop up the cheap ones and resell them, negating the airline's ability to move the ticket price around as demand ebbed and flowed. At its simplest, airlines could set up an internal alert whenever the same purchaser (defined by name and/or credit card), attempts to transfer more than one or two tickets per year. Have you ever read the fine print associated with one of your tickets? If they're capable of that much complexity, surely transfer protocols are within reach.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 8:13:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2017 19:07:55 GMT
But that isn't what happened in this case. And it isn't always convenient to use a transfer for value of the ticket. What if it's a one off vacation which is what happened to a member of my family once. She was due to go the US and she was taken ill and although she was well enough to travel her Dr advised her not to as a precaution as they hadn't fully found out what had caused her to be sick in the first place. So he was concerned that it might bother her again while she was away. Her daughter rang the airline explained what had happened and they offered her a ticket transfer valid for 12 months which to her was useless as she had no intention of going to the US in the future. Fortunately she had travel insurance but she still had to wait 12 months for that transfer time to end before they would confirm that she was a no show. They re sold that ticket immediately at the time of the original date as there was someone sitting next to her son in law ( her assigned seat as they had pre booked seats ). So in her case they received two payments for one seat and it cost her extra as her deductible was taken off the insurance pay out 13 months later. How do you know it was the case here? While it may be true that some people can't use a future ticket, most can and I definitely don't want to move to a system of all travel arrangements being unchangable. I don't for certain but there was no mention of anything like that on the video when he was trying to explain to her that he'd paid for the ticket and they had no right to sell it on to someone else.
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Post by papersilly on May 4, 2017 19:14:50 GMT
i saw that last night and thought it was disgusting. what makes one paying customer worth booting out another paying customer? unless it's a surgeon carrying a heart on his lap that he will have to transplant, i say no paying passenger is worth booting.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 4, 2017 19:15:17 GMT
We need changes to the fine print, then. I completely agree, but railing against the airline in that moment ( when they are acting in accordance with the fine print), is not going to solve the issue. Overbooking flights makes money. They're not going to stop. As passengers we (the general we) need to be more aware of what we're agreeing to when we buy that ticket. Add in the very real threat of terrorism, and you will find that the FAA does not mess around. If you throw a fit on a flight if you're asked to deplane then you're going to get a swift reaction. Again, I don't disagree that it's crap. but if you're going to fly then you have to recognize that the airline is going to overbook the flight. (unless they're Jet Blue apparently) and there is a risk you're going to get booted off. On the other hand, I don't have any sympathy for the family that tried to use a ticket for a passenger they weren't traveling with. If you want your kid to sit in a seat, then buy the kid a seat.
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on May 4, 2017 19:17:25 GMT
i dont get it, the children were young enough to fly in their laps? why didnt they just put the baby in their lap and free up that 1 seat? why were all being asked to leave?
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Post by katlady on May 4, 2017 19:17:42 GMT
When I buy an airline ticket, it pretty much tells me right there and then that the fare I am purchasing is non-refundable and/or non-transferable. I wouldn't expect to be able to give the ticket to someone else to use.
I am interested to see what the final version of this story will be. I am not a fan of Delta, but it seems like this family didn't understand that you can't just use someone else's ticket. If that person doesn't board the plane it is a no-show.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 4, 2017 19:19:35 GMT
I don't for certain but there was no mention of anything like that on the video when he was trying to explain to her that he'd paid for the ticket and they had no right to sell it on to someone else. The key here is, yes he paid for the ticket but the person whose name is ON the ticket didn't show up. Therefore it appears to the airline as an empty seat which means they can sell it. did the airline "double dip"? you bet they did. They're in business to make money and this is how they do it. They know a certain percentage of flights there are people who don't show up but have paid for a seat. Once everyone is on board, and they have people they need to move then they look and see where they have space available. In this case, because the teen didn't check in, that seat showed available in the system and was resold.
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Post by annabella on May 4, 2017 19:19:38 GMT
i dont get it, the children were young enough to fly in their laps? why didnt they just put the baby in their lap and free up that 1 seat? why were all being asked to leave? Because they were giving a ticket he paid for to someone else to use when he wanted to use that ticket for his baby.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 4, 2017 19:35:55 GMT
I know and I agree, they shouldn't be able to do that. Sadly, right now their policies make it so they can. I disagree that they should be able to. The only reason I used the word shifty was because currently it IS against policy- I think the policy stinks. I agree they shouldn't be allowed to do that.If the seat has been paid for,someone doesn't turn up then the airline hasn't lost any money so they are not out of pocket. I'm quoting this one to just talk about the on going discussion of airlines "being paid twice" for seats. Not to point this response out in particular. Rarely are seats paid for twice. Two scenarios usually happen. 1 - I have a ticket booked and need to change my flight. I call the airline, pay a $200 change fee and the difference in fair to get to the new flight I need to get to (sometimes the change in fair is a refund if it's less). The seat I paid for is transferred to the new flight. The original seat I paid for is now available to sell again. 2 - I have a ticket booked and need to cancel my trip. I call the airline, cancel the trip, they charge me the $200 change fee, and leave the rest of the fair as a credit voucher for use within 1 year. The seat I paid for is now available to sell again. The ONLY way the get double payment on a seat is if someone just doesn't show up, doesn't cancel, nothing. But even then, they won't know that until the cutoff time for check in (around 30 minutes ahead of flight). So the person filling that seat is most likely going to be a stand by passenger. I'm not sure that I say that's really being double paid for a seat.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 8:13:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2017 19:39:17 GMT
We need changes to the fine print, then. If you want your kid to sit in a seat, then buy the kid a seat. He did, but it was for his 18 year old kid not his 2 year old.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,792
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on May 4, 2017 19:39:26 GMT
Yep. DH worked in the airline industry for many years and has recently got into heated discussions with people as these stories have broken. As a consumer you have to understand you're giving up quite a few rights when you purchase that ticket. There are always 3 sides to every story, but the part that people keep getting hung up on is the fine print on their ticket and the belief that the airline can't do what you have AGREED could happen when you purchased the ticket. We need changes to the fine print, then. If I'm the type to buy a ticket for a terrorist presumably I should already be on a watch list/no fly list, so I'm not buying that. either refund my ticket, or if I need to give to to another family member, that's my right. You're awfully naive if you think every single terrorist is already on a list. There's a reason for multiple TSA checks and security; why no one but ticketed passengers are allowed past security into the terminals. Sure the airlines are making money on reselling no-show seats, but by making them non-transferable they are also making it harder for terrorists to book one person and then switch out passengers at the last minute. It's one more level of protection. Speaking for myself, I'm not willing to put my life at risk so some random family can try to get around airline rules. Save
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 8:13:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2017 19:42:34 GMT
Didn't read all the replies, but if this child is 2 years old, wasn't he too old to be flying seated on a parent's lap to begin with?
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 4, 2017 19:42:49 GMT
I've changed my flights thousands of times - with no change fees as I my fare class allowed changes. What airline is this? Did you buy the most expensive ticket to begin with? Did you employer buy your ticket? I didn't know the TSA keeps track of no shows for all the airlines. I thought it would come from passengers not checking in or not boarding/boarding on time. I was just speculating on how they got around the TSA without the son. How do they do that? When I fly, to my memory, the TSA agent before I go through the x-ray machine, just looks at my ticket and compares the name to my passport and looks at me. Then he takes a black pen and makes a mark on my ticket (what for I don't know?). He is standing at a wooden podium, not a computer desk. If there was a computer scan in there somewhere I have not seen it? I haven't flown in 1.5 years, perhaps this is new? If you buy the more expensive refundable fair, change fees are usually waived. As far as a link between TSA and the gate - there is none. I think people are confused. In this situation, the ticket would not have matched the sons ticket for either toddler. However, they got through security because the toddlers were booked as LAP passengers - no seat assignment. They got through the gate at the plane in the same manner. Listed as LAP passengers - no seat assignment. The problem came when they planned to use the seat they had purchased for their 18 year old son for one of the toddlers. That seat is not transferable. Therefore, when the 18 year old didn't check in for the flight, the seat became available to the airline to fill as needed. But there is no link between TSA checkpoints and the gate.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 4, 2017 19:45:12 GMT
I don't see it as a transfer though, if *I* buy 3 tickets and my friends can't come, I can't stretch out on their seats? I paid for the seats. I'm not transferring them to a 3rd party, I just want to put my feet up and my purse. The baby was already a ticketed passenger for that flight, he just moved seats. I feel the airline is double dipping into the cost of the ticket. I would be livid if they sold my spare tickets to someone else. The baby was ticketed as a LAP passenger. No seat purchased. And no, you can't just use that extra seat. That's not how it works. Period.
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Post by annabella on May 4, 2017 19:49:31 GMT
If you buy the more expensive refundable fair, change fees are usually waived. I would never buy a more expensive ticket. Rarely are seats paid for twice. Two scenarios usually happen. 1 - I have a ticket booked and need to change my flight. I call the airline, pay a $200 change fee and the difference in fair to get to the new flight I need to get to (sometimes the change in fair is a refund if it's less). The seat I paid for is transferred to the new flight. The original seat I paid for is now available to sell again. 2 - I have a ticket booked and need to cancel my trip. I call the airline, cancel the trip, they charge me the $200 change fee, and leave the rest of the fair as a credit voucher for use within 1 year. The seat I paid for is now available to sell again. The ONLY way the get double payment on a seat is if someone just doesn't show up, doesn't cancel, nothing. But even then, they won't know that until the cutoff time for check in (around 30 minutes ahead of flight). So the person filling that seat is most likely going to be a stand by passenger. I'm not sure that I say that's really being double paid for a seat. I've never in my life had to change or cancel a flight. That said, it's very rare for me to pay more than $200 for a domestic flight. So yes I would just be a no-show if for some reason I couldn't fly. There would be no point in calling if the change fee is more than the ticket of the flight. For my international vacations I always get travel insurance so I would assume neither I nor the insurance would contact the airline to say I'm not coming? Remember back in the day when you had to call an airline 48 hours in advance for an international trip to confirm your seat or it wouldn't be there?
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Post by ladytrisha on May 4, 2017 19:49:56 GMT
My fear is that I'm going to pay for an extra seat and the airline will pull this fast one when we get seated. So I'm fat and my hubby is 6'5. We tried buying the extra legroom seats to Hawaii and sadly, my fat isn't like a toothpaste tube so it did nothing for me and those couple of inches of extra legroom couldn't save him from the jerk ahead of us who decided to lazyboy it all the way.
So we're going to add in the cost of an extra seat between us - we can be comfy, he can stretch out and my butt will have room. We're not going to Europe, but going to Hawaii should be definitely more comfortable.
Then they'll pull the "we're overbooked" speech and I'll be on the news at 11 !!
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 4, 2017 19:50:48 GMT
That's the mistake right there, IMO. You can't just give your ticket to someone else. Which is offensive, IMO.if I buy something, it's mine. Whether it's a movie ticket or a plane ticket, I should damn well be able to give it to whoever the hell I want. It's MINE. It BELONGS to ME. Except it doesn't. And since 9/11 the rules have changed. You can't just give your ticket to someone else as flight manifests are compared against no fly lists, terrorist lists, etc. So you can't just decide to give your ticket to someone at the last minute for that reason.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on May 4, 2017 20:08:48 GMT
If the issue is that the 18 year old didn't show, so his seat was given away, should a family/group travelling together just put the tickets all in one name, then? As long as the person who ordered the tickets put them in his/her name shows up, they should be then able to hand them to their 3 other family members.
Again, that's what we do when we're going to a play, or a sporting event. One person orders the tix & hands them out there.
You will never convince me that it's acceptable that I not be allowed to use something THAT I PAID FOR. Either let me use all the tix I paid for, or refund my money, period.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 4, 2017 20:10:16 GMT
He did, but it was for his 18 year old kid not his 2 year old. and his 18 year old flew out the day before. The baby was ticketed as a LAP passenger. No seat purchased. And no, you can't just use that extra seat. That's not how it works. Period. this. is is crappy that the airline can then resell the seat that the 18 year old was ticketed for but DID NOT USE as he was on an earlier flight, therefore making double the money on one seat? yes, but that's the way the system works. end of story.
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