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Post by Darcy Collins on May 5, 2017 18:46:42 GMT
Unfortunately the reporting on this is abysmal. Some articles say both were lap babies. One said they bought 4 tickets (which would mean the 2 year old who I think was actually the daughter, did have a paid for seat). Who the hell cares what the facts are, it's better to just put out the quick click bait of baby's kicked out of seat. You're guaranteed lots of outrage without most caring what the facts are and the family can get a check from the airline who just wants the whole thing to go away. I've watched stories about this two mornings in a row on Good Morning America. According to them the family bought 4 tickets. The video footage clearly shows that they have two children - a 2 y.o. and a 1 y.o. Their coverage actually hasn't been that abysmal, IMO. I'm glad GMA's coverage is better - I've relied on print and it's been pretty abysmal. So they never intended the 2 year old to be a lap baby, only the 1 year old. I'll try and correct my comments where I've said 2 lap babies.
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 5, 2017 18:47:22 GMT
The family in the story bought the seat for their 18 year old. He was NOT on the flight (they put him on an earlier one) that's the key here. Jane Smith wants as much room as possible so she buys 2 seats. BOTH seats are in her name. When she checks in she has 2 boarding passes in her name as Jane Smith. She is physically on the plane and therefore in possession of those 2 seats. If the stewardess tried to take the extra seat/inquired about it Jane would produce the boarding pass that has HER name on it which gives her access to the second seat. That makes sense... But Delta says the flight wasn't overbooked, and airlines will let people put a car seat for a lap baby in a vacant seat (for safety I would presume), since the 18 year old didn't board and the flight wasn't overbooked, shouldn't the seat have been vacant then? and available for a lap baby with a car seat? Not overbooked doesn't mean that they don't have standby passengers.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 5, 2017 18:57:27 GMT
ut Delta says the flight wasn't overbooked, There's a difference between FULL and overbooked. I honestly don't know if their flight was full, but I would assume it was. I would assume the crew had someone they needed to transport, saw they had a no show, and tried to put that person in the empty seat. I once had a flight attendant in training sit next to me. I had moved to the aisle seat as the plane had pushed back, and was politely asked to move back to the center as she would need to sit there for takeoff and landing. I've also sat my lap baby in an empty seat next to me AFTER the flight had taken off and I knew no one would be sitting there. The instant that family would not comply is the instant it became a bigger deal than it needed to be.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 5, 2017 19:27:48 GMT
Yes, that's my understanding. That is my understanding as well, and honestly ticks me off that Delta caved and apologized for this family trying to play the system. The airline is in a pretty bad spot PR wise though, insisting on removing a child from a car seat in accordance with their own preferred policy regarding young children flying. And let's face it, most people won't read past the headline or the salacious sound bite to understand the whole story. I don't know that it is totally unreasonable for the family to think that if they bought a seperate ticket the day before that they still also "own" the ticket for the seat that day. Given that Delta says the flight wasn't overbooked, I can't figure out why they needed to kick the car seat/child out of the seat. I've seen people be allowed to put a car seat in an unsold seat for a lap baby on multiple occasions, and I've seen people hoping to do this have to gate check their car seat when the flight is full. It just seems like some cooler heads could have prevailed in this situation. For what it's worth, I've flown several times alone with three kids, and 2 in car seats. It's not easy at all, but I've always bought seperate tickets for them. The flight probably wasn't overbooked. That doesn't mean there wasn't standby passengers to fill those seats out - standby for any number of reasons. Their flight was cancelled, missed connections, just missed their flight, etc. They needed that seat for another passenger.
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on May 5, 2017 19:42:36 GMT
The instant that family would not comply is the instant it became a bigger deal than it needed to be. The exact same thing could be said about the gentleman on the unite flight. According to all their fine print they had the right to take his seat. Had he complied then it wouldn't of escalated. Of course it's through the escalation that now people are really paying attention. Thing is I was never allowed to board with a car seat unless they told me "go ahead we have empty seats you can use for your infant". If they were full, or had folks on stand by they made me check it right outside the door. There is simply no place to put an unused car seat. Someone let them board with it with the intention of using it. Once they did that, they did play a part in the debacle.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
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Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on May 5, 2017 19:42:39 GMT
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 5, 2017 19:51:28 GMT
I don't understand whoever was telling the parents and arguing infants aren't allowed to even use a car seat on a plane but have to be held? ok now that's bizarre, as I've always understood that kids under 2 are ticketed as lap babies. If they are younger than 2 if you want them to sit in a seat you have to buy them a ticket and as a safety issue have them ride in their carseat.
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quiltz
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Posts: 6,840
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on May 5, 2017 19:51:48 GMT
They had TWO kids - YOU must have missed that part. A 2 year old with her own seat and a 1 year old that they were using for the other seat they paid for. No, you missed it. They didn't buy a seat for their 2 year old OR the 1 year old. The were travelling as LAP passengers despite the apparent rules of 2 years not allowed to happen. They bought 3 seats for that flight, one for the 18 yr old, and one for each parent. They bought a 4th ticket for the 18 yr old to go on a different flight home thinking they could keep his seat on their flight to use for the 2 year old. tracylynn Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge about flying/rules/regulations. I do think that everyone should have identification to board an airplane from infant to 100+ years old. In my province you are given a registration of birth, mailed to you a few weeks after the birth of a child. It is very important to know the exact numbers of who is on board and and the name of each & every passenger, from infant to adult. It is very important to be able to "prove" who you are in this world. Everyone should have some sort of identification, whether it is a passport, driver's licence, birth certificate or state/provincial ID. To me, this is common sense, but realize that it may not be for many people. I do know that when I book a flight on Air Canada, that I must provide my birthdate as well as a passport# for travelling into the USA. Apparently due to the 'no fly list', this information must be given 72 hours in advance of boarding. There wouldn't be so many issues at the airport if a person would check-in on-line 24 hours prior to departure. This simple action is a confirmation that you are committed to fly on this flight. Many things can happen in the 23 hours prior to departure. There could be an accident on the highway going to the airport which would cause a lengthy delay or a personal matter. Both the airline and the passengers should work together to avoid any instances. And read the FINE PRINT. It is there for a reason. Or at least check into the FQA for the airline. Do not ASSUME anything. The rules and regulations are there for a reason, even if you don't understand the reason; this is all part of a contract.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,077
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on May 5, 2017 20:09:57 GMT
A piece of paper without a photo doesn't "prove" who anyone is--anyone could borrow a birth certificate of a similar aged child and say it was their kid.
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PaperAngel
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Posts: 7,796
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on May 5, 2017 21:23:02 GMT
We flew USAirways out of Charlotte, NC. Either the rule applied narrowly to first class seating/specific flight/to discourage redeeming frequent flyer miles/airport security, or I was given incorrect information that we've acted on all these years. Regardless, the airlines/airport has proof of at least one minor passenger! My daughter has flown US Airways out of Charlotte many times with no id. Since we live in Charlotte, our 15 yo has traveled in & out of Charlotte-Douglas his entire life. We've always booked him an individual seat in first class for every flight he's ever taken, whether traveling with us/alone, domestic/international, & he's produced a passport or state-issued ID each time (in accordance with what we were initially told). No one has ever told us it wasn't necessary, & I've never paid attention whether the few children going through TSA PreCheck or preferred boarding showed an ID. Plus, there would be NO WAY my child would travel alone to any destination without a proper ID, regardless whether its required by the airline. It seems odd a birth certificate is necessary to participate in a school field trip to a local park, & you cannot play AAU sports without a photo ID, but neither is required for air travel.
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likescarrots
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Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on May 5, 2017 23:08:14 GMT
Why would they need a 3rd boarding pass to get on the plane? People gate check their carseats all the time - some people think they get less beat up that way - so the employee wouldn't bat an eye at them carrying a carseat down the jetway. How would the flight attendant know that they didn't have a boarding pass for the seat? The flight attendant doesn't check everyone's boarding pass again. I'd like to see the footage when they first asked them family to remove the seat. The video doesn't start until after the police are already on the plane. I'll give the family the benefit of the doubt that they didn't realize that they couldn't transfer the ticket. When they asked for the lap baby's boarding pass - which I'm sure happened when they were preparing or had released the seat for the no-show and realized that their numbers didn't match, I imagine the conversation was somewhat like the beginning of the tape where the father just kept insisting he owned the seat because he paid for it and it didn't matter that the ticketed passenger wasn't onboard. ETA - the one part Delta did absolutely wrong was the whole BS about the FAA requiring lap babies to be held - that's just completely wrong. If they were gate checking the carseat the Delta representative would have given them a tag/sticker. Apparently that didn't happen. Not necessarily. We have gate checked bags plenty of times without a tag. The gate attendants don't always check.
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amom23
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Member is Online
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on May 5, 2017 23:18:48 GMT
My daughter has flown US Airways out of Charlotte many times with no id. Since we live in Charlotte, our 15 yo has traveled in & out of Charlotte-Douglas his entire life. We've always booked him an individual seat in first class for every flight he's ever taken, whether traveling with us/alone, domestic/international, & he's produced a passport or state-issued ID each time (in accordance with what we were initially told). No one has ever told us it wasn't necessary, & I've never paid attention whether the few children going through TSA PreCheck or preferred boarding showed an ID. Plus, there would be NO WAY my child would travel alone to any destination without a proper ID, regardless whether its required by the airline. It seems odd a birth certificate is necessary to participate in a school field trip to a local park, & you cannot play AAU sports without a photo ID, but neither is required for air travel. All I can say is my kids have never had to produce an ID in order to fly. Even when traveling with a grandparent who has a different last name.
Also, I've never had to produce a birth certificate for my child to go on a field trip and my son who played AAU basketball never ever was asked to show is drivers license. Whew....sounds tough to live in Charlotte LOL! Come up to ND we appear to be a little more chill!
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,796
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on May 5, 2017 23:51:08 GMT
Since we live in Charlotte, our 15 yo has traveled in & out of Charlotte-Douglas his entire life. We've always booked him an individual seat in first class for every flight he's ever taken, whether traveling with us/alone, domestic/international, & he's produced a passport or state-issued ID each time (in accordance with what we were initially told). No one has ever told us it wasn't necessary, & I've never paid attention whether the few children going through TSA PreCheck or preferred boarding showed an ID. Plus, there would be NO WAY my child would travel alone to any destination without a proper ID, regardless whether its required by the airline. It seems odd a birth certificate is necessary to participate in a school field trip to a local park, & you cannot play AAU sports without a photo ID, but neither is required for air travel. All I can say is my kids have never had to produce an ID in order to fly. Even when traveling with a grandparent who has a different last name.
Also, I've never had to produce a birth certificate for my child to go on a field trip and my son who played AAU basketball never ever was asked to show is drivers license. Whew....sounds tough to live in Charlotte LOL! Come up to ND we appear to be a little more chill!
Umm...no thanks! Given the experiences you & others have shared, it appears we were given incorrect information & provided ID for our son to travel over the years that wasn't required. No worries. A copy of a birth certificate must be on file with schools, whether public or private, to enroll &/or participate in field trips/extracurricular activities that require school transportation. Our child has played on various AAU sports teams, including basketball, for the last 5-6 years. The coach for every team has maintained a file with a copy of a birth certificate, insurance card proving coverage, state-issued photo ID or passport, current report card, & emergency contact information for every player. Such file is produced & reviewed by officials at a designated time prior to every tournament (& he's played at numerous venues throughout the country) to determine both team & individual players' eligibility to participate. Often players also have to show ID every time they enter the building &/or locker/team meeting rooms. Perhaps your son's team didn't play in AAU-sanctioned tournaments (I understand some of the other organizations' are more competitive than AAU in certain areas), officials at the tournaments in which he participated didn't follow proper protocol, our son's coaches only sign-up for tournaments with strict controls (which may explain all the travel!), or it's a new practice since your son played if he's older.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 6, 2017 1:55:47 GMT
Since we live in Charlotte, our 15 yo has traveled in & out of Charlotte-Douglas his entire life. We've always booked him an individual seat in first class for every flight he's ever taken, whether traveling with us/alone, domestic/international, & he's produced a passport or state-issued ID each time (in accordance with what we were initially told). No one has ever told us it wasn't necessary, & I've never paid attention whether the few children going through TSA PreCheck or preferred boarding showed an ID. Plus, there would be NO WAY my child would travel alone to any destination without a proper ID, regardless whether its required by the airline. It seems odd a birth certificate is necessary to participate in a school field trip to a local park, & you cannot play AAU sports without a photo ID, but neither is required for air travel. All I can say is my kids have never had to produce an ID in order to fly. Even when traveling with a grandparent who has a different last name.
Also, I've never had to produce a birth certificate for my child to go on a field trip and my son who played AAU basketball never ever was asked to show is drivers license. Whew....sounds tough to live in Charlotte LOL! Come up to ND we appear to be a little more chill!
The last time we flew from Charlotte there was a young man in front of us who was 16, he had no ID. The TSA guy was a little rough on him, and he said he didn't have a drivers license, he was going home for Christmas from boarding school. He could easily have been older than 16. I would have said he was under 20 but probably would have pegged him at 18. Apparently, he had issues previously because he had the information from the US air website printed out so they couldn't stop him from flying. The TSA guy was giving him a hard time and telling him he needed to get his driver's license while he was home. If you could "pass" for under 18 you could easily lie about your name and age. But I also wondered if he wasn't a wealthy white kid, (I am assuming wealth based on boarding school and the way he was dressed) would they have let him fly?
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 6, 2017 2:00:00 GMT
All I can say is my kids have never had to produce an ID in order to fly. Even when traveling with a grandparent who has a different last name.
Also, I've never had to produce a birth certificate for my child to go on a field trip and my son who played AAU basketball never ever was asked to show is drivers license. Whew....sounds tough to live in Charlotte LOL! Come up to ND we appear to be a little more chill!
The last time we flew from Charlotte there was a young man in front of us who was 16, he had no ID. The TSA guy was a little rough on him, and he said he didn't have a drivers license, he was going home for Christmas from boarding school. He could easily have been older than 16. I would have said he was under 20 but probably would have pegged him at 18. Apparently, he had issues previously because he had the information from the US air website printed out so they couldn't stop him from flying. The TSA guy was giving him a hard time and telling him he needed to get his driver's license while he was home. If you could "pass" for under 18 you could easily lie about your name and age. But I also wondered if he wasn't a wealthy white kid, (I am assuming wealth based on boarding school and the way he was dressed) would they have let him fly? Keep in mind you can fly without ID even over 18 - it's just a pretty painful process. I've had to do it once post 9/11. You'll go through two layers of extra screening - but I did fly. My purse had been stolen so no ID whatsoever - although I did have business cards.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 6, 2017 2:02:03 GMT
All I can say is my kids have never had to produce an ID in order to fly. Even when traveling with a grandparent who has a different last name.
Also, I've never had to produce a birth certificate for my child to go on a field trip and my son who played AAU basketball never ever was asked to show is drivers license. Whew....sounds tough to live in Charlotte LOL! Come up to ND we appear to be a little more chill!
Umm...no thanks! Given the experiences you & others have shared, it appears we were given incorrect information & provided ID for our son to travel over the years that wasn't required. No worries. A copy of a birth certificate must be on file with schools, whether public or private, to enroll &/or participate in field trips/extracurricular activities that require school transportation.Our child has played on various AAU sports teams, including basketball, for the last 5-6 years. The coach for every team has maintained a file with a copy of a birth certificate, insurance card proving coverage, state-issued photo ID or passport, current report card, & emergency contact information for every player. Such file is produced & reviewed by officials at a designated time prior to every tournament (& he's played at numerous venues throughout the country) to determine both team & individual players' eligibility to participate. Often players also have to show ID every time they enter the building &/or locker/team meeting rooms. Perhaps your son's team didn't play in AAU-sanctioned tournaments (I understand some of the other organizations' are more competitive than AAU in certain areas), officials at the tournaments in which he participated didn't follow proper protocol, our son's coaches only sign-up for tournaments with strict controls (which may explain all the travel!), or it's a new practice since your son played if he's older. Since moving to NC my daughter has been in both private and public schools neither have a copy of her birth certificate and she has traveled in school provided transportation. Perhaps living in the hippy hills of Asheville they take a much easier approach to these things. But I know when I helped registered students for a charter school there were a number of documents that were acceptable and that we did not have to have documents on file we just had to verify them.
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