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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 15:51:22 GMT
A friend of mine recently posted an article that PetSmart discriminates against pitbulls in their off leash doggie play groups. I am a frequent customer of PetSmart. My cat has food allergies and it is the only place local to me where I can find her food. So I buy cat food there. I also buy my kitty litter there. I also take my dog, Amelia, there for baths and nail grinding. The grooming salon does a good job with her.
My dog is very laid back. She is good with cats and kids. She loves to play with other dogs too. I have never had occasion to take her to a doggy playgroup so I have never challenged the policy at my local PetSmart.
When I read about this corporate policy I did write a letter but I haven't heard anything back. I am curious, though, I mean I could order my cat food online. And I could find a different groomer. I can buy kitty litter anywhere. Would this type of discriminatory policy be enough for you to take your business elsewhere?
I have had Amelia for five years now. I have seen firsthand how people discriminate against pitbulls. I have had people make comments to me when I am out walking her or taking her to the vet. I have seen how other people keep their dogs away from her. I have seen people tell their children they cannot pet her. I even have one neighbor when we are out walking who will purposely walk in the street to avoid passing her on the sidewalk. I admit when DH said he wanted to adopt a pitbull my first reaction was no way. I, too, had a poor impression of them until I owned this dog. It just makes me sad that a company like PetSmart which caters to animals has a policy like this.
I am just trying to figure out if I should continue to do business with them. I feel like every time people have exposure to great dogs like mine that is the way to change minds...
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Post by hop2 on May 27, 2017 16:08:53 GMT
1 - people should tell their children they should not pet ANY dog without express permission from it's owner
2 - I'm sorry to say, I might make surface judgements like that as well, not necessarily because I don't like pit bulls ( I pet my nephews dog all the time, she is a pit rescue and a doll ) but around here a large percentage of people who choose to own pit bulls are not responsible dog owners. This is why the shelters are full with pit bulls and pit bull mixes. This is why put bulls are constantly running loose also. Too many people do not realize the strength of those dogs, they do not handle them properly and they do not train them properly. Some are too lazy to train them properly. So yes if I know you or I can figure out your a responsible dog owner then I'd be fine.
I'm sorry your dealing with that. I'm sure your pup is fine. But if I saw you in the park I might spend a few moments contemplating as well. But I wouldn't be contemplating your dog - I'd be trying to ascertain if your a responsible dog owner or an idiot. Though to be fair I tend to judge most dogs by their owners not just pit bulls
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Post by Clair on May 27, 2017 16:12:33 GMT
I'm good with their policy. I think if they allow pit bulls they will actually lose business from owners of other breeds. Maybe their insurance won't cover them.
Around here - you won't find any doggie day care centers that would allow pit bulls and home owner insurance policies don't cover pit bulls.
I'm sure you knew when you got a pit that there was a bias against them.
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 16:22:17 GMT
I'm good with their policy. I think if they allow pit bulls they will actually lose business from owners of other breeds. Maybe their insurance won't cover them. Around here - you won't find any doggie day care centers that would allow pit bulls and home owner insurance policies don't cover pit bulls. I'm sure you knew when you got a pit that there was a bias against them. If it was a matter of insurance I could understand that. And then I wonder why they haven't just come out and said so. I do pay more for my homeowner's insurance because we own a pitbull. Each dog is an individual. Petsmart is an advocate for homeless pets. They even have a partnership with our local cat rescue and I got my kitty through them. I am a member of a Facebook group for owners of pitbulls and I see a lot of really great dogs. My dog is a staff favorite at my vets office. I have owned many dogs in my life and honestly my pitbull is one of the best dogs I have ever owned. |
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Post by leannec on May 27, 2017 16:52:34 GMT
Sorry, I don't trust pitbulls ... they are bred to be aggressive and are unpredictable ... if I had small children I would not want them anywhere near one  I'm an experienced dog owner ... that breed scares me  I think that Petsmart is doing what is in the best interest of their other customers ... sorry! I'm happy to hear that you have a great pitbull and you are obviously a responsible owner but that is not usually the case ... the company needs to protect itself  |
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Post by bc2ca on May 27, 2017 17:15:28 GMT
When you wrote to the corporate office did you ask a specific question for them to respond to or were you expressing your disappointment with their policy? Blanket corporate policies are usually going to err to the most cautious decision/rule and it may be in response to an incident that happened in one group that caused them to ban this breed in all stores. Are other breeds banned as well? I think Clair has a point that allowing pitbulls could cause them to lose other customers.  |
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 17:56:40 GMT
When you wrote to the corporate office did you ask a specific question for them to respond to or were you expressing your disappointment with their policy? Blanket corporate policies are usually going to err to the most cautious decision/rule and it may be in response to an incident that happened in one group that caused them to ban this breed in all stores. Are other breeds banned as well? I think Clair has a point that allowing pitbulls could cause them to lose other customers. I did question the policy. They specifically only discriminate against pitbulls or should I say what they try to term as a pitbull. They take all other breeds on a case by case basis. I believe they should take all dogs on a case by case basis. I once owned a Scottie that was a biter. He was aggressive. We did not allow him around other dogs. We ended up adopting him out to an older couple that did not have children. I would have never taken that dog to a playgroup. In fact, I am very careful with my dog because I see firsthand the bias against pitbulls. I would likely not take her to a playgroup or any place where she would not be supervised by DH or I. Even around other dogs in my family I always make sure that I am there to supervise because I know that she is a big dog and if she were provoked to the point where she felt it necessary to defend herself she is usually the biggest and strongest dog in the group and could potentially do the most damage. I sincerely doubt she would though. We actually we're walking her in our old neighborhood and a German Shepherd ran out of his home and bit her. And she did not fight back. There is also a Jack Russell terrier in our neighborhood who frequently gets out and chases my dog down to try and bite at her legs. My dog has never attempted to retaliate with that dog either and I have reported that dog to animal control many times. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 18:41:13 GMT
According to their website, it's not just pits, but all bully breeds as well as intact males:
"Campers must be at least 4 months of age. We cannot accept intact (unneutered) male dogs, pregnant females or females in heat. Furthermore, for the safety of all animals and associates, we cannot accept dogs of the “bully breed” classification or wolves/wolf hybrids including American Pit Bull Terriers, Miniature Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, American Bull Dogs, Bull Terriers or mixed breeds that have the appearance or characteristics of one of these breeds. At the discretion of PetSmart, some pets may not be permitted."
I don't think pits are more aggressive; however, I do feel bully breeds tend to be stronger dogs and can be more difficult to pull apart if a fight ensued.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on May 27, 2017 19:09:41 GMT
A long-term study started in Cold War Soviet Union shows that it take multiple generations (at least 8) of CONCENTRATED, SCIENTIFIC selective breeding, to breed aggression out of a genetic line. I don't know of a single soul that has attempted to breed out aggressive behavior in pits. I do know OF lots of people that tried to breed it IN. We had so many dog fighting rings shut down here. We have a bad drug problem and lots of wanna be thugs. All of which caused the pit population to soar.
Most responsible pit owners have their dogs fixed so that any sweet nature they have, stop with them.
There's a reason for breed stereotypes. Sure, there can be sweet pits. Just like some goldens can be protective of their homes. Some labs can hate water.
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pinklady
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Post by pinklady on May 27, 2017 19:19:58 GMT
According to their website, it's not just pits, but all bully breeds as well as intact males: "Campers must be at least 4 months of age. We cannot accept intact (unneutered) male dogs, pregnant females or females in heat. Furthermore, for the safety of all animals and associates, we cannot accept dogs of the “bully breed” classification or wolves/wolf hybrids including American Pit Bull Terriers, Miniature Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, American Bull Dogs, Bull Terriers or mixed breeds that have the appearance or characteristics of one of these breeds. At the discretion of PetSmart, some pets may not be permitted." I don't think pits are more aggressive; however, I do feel bully breeds tend to be stronger dogs and can be more difficult to pull apart if a fight ensued. It's not all bully breeds. I've never had them all refuse to take my English bulldog in for nail trimming. For the record, I agree with their policy. If there was a pit bull in the store I'd walk out immediately and come back another time. |
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on May 27, 2017 19:38:03 GMT
They are a banned breed in the U.K. With good reason.
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scrapngranny
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Post by scrapngranny on May 27, 2017 19:52:38 GMT
Unfortunately, this is why. Pit Bull Bites Fatal to 3 Week Old Baby in Michigan. USA TODAY This was in today's feed. I know pit bulls can be extremely loving and your girl is one of those, but they can also be unpredictable. When they do suddenly decide to go after something, it is often fatal. It is better for the doggy playground to be safe than sorry. |
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Post by miominmio on May 27, 2017 19:58:48 GMT
They are a banned breed in the U.K. With good reason. Here as well, thankfully. |
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Post by littlemama on May 27, 2017 20:03:42 GMT
The breed overall has been damaged, and therefore, I don't trust any of them. DS had a friend who was attacked by his own family's pit pull. It tore his arms apart. The boy had surgery to repair the damage and had casts on both arms. Two days after the casts came off, the dog attacked him again. This all happened during his Senior year in high school, so it cost him most of the year and his entire baseball season. If I walked into any pet store and saw a pit bull, leashes or unleashed, I would walk right back out.
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Post by anonrefugee on May 27, 2017 20:55:27 GMT
There must have been an incident that prompted this. Major retailers don't lightly make policies angering potential customers. Maybe the policy was part of a settlement with a victim.
Having said that, i think you've taken some good steps to let them know you disagree.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 21:02:55 GMT
According to their website, it's not just pits, but all bully breeds as well as intact males: "Campers must be at least 4 months of age. We cannot accept intact (unneutered) male dogs, pregnant females or females in heat. Furthermore, for the safety of all animals and associates, we cannot accept dogs of the “bully breed” classification or wolves/wolf hybrids including American Pit Bull Terriers, Miniature Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, American Bull Dogs, Bull Terriers or mixed breeds that have the appearance or characteristics of one of these breeds. At the discretion of PetSmart, some pets may not be permitted." I don't think pits are more aggressive; however, I do feel bully breeds tend to be stronger dogs and can be more difficult to pull apart if a fight ensued. It's not all bully breeds. I've never had them all refuse to take my English bulldog in for nail trimming. For the record, I agree with their policy. If there was a pit bull in the store I'd walk out immediately and come back another time. I think this only applies to their camps and not grooming services. |
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on May 27, 2017 21:22:01 GMT
I even have one neighbor when we are out walking who will purposely walk in the street to avoid passing her on the sidewalk. Are you sure that's because it's a pitbull? When I am out walking, and I approach someone with a dog, any dog, I typically try to walk around, either in the grass or in the street if need be. It isn't because I'm afraid of the dogs. It's because if I don't, without fail, that dog will try to be my friend and, without fail, the owner will choke that dog with its leash to pull it away from me. Now, I realize why the owners do that-- they don't know I'm not afraid of the dog and we've all got a split second to make a choice. I choose to give the dog the sidewalk so his owner doesn't have to yank them back. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 21:22:19 GMT
It's not all bully breeds. I've never had them all refuse to take my English bulldog in for nail trimming. For the record, I agree with their policy. If there was a pit bull in the store I'd walk out immediately and come back another time. I think this only applies to their camps and not grooming services. It does. I take my dog there for grooming all the time. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 21:26:43 GMT
I even have one neighbor when we are out walking who will purposely walk in the street to avoid passing her on the sidewalk. Are you sure that's because it's a pitbull? When I am out walking, and I approach someone with a dog, any dog, I typically try to walk around, either in the grass or in the street if need be. It isn't because I'm afraid of the dogs. It's because if I don't, without fail, that dog will try to be my friend and, without fail, the owner will choke that dog with its leash to pull it away from me. Now, I realize why the owners do that-- they don't know I'm not afraid of the dog and we've all got a split second to make a choice. I choose to give the dog the sidewalk so his owner doesn't have to yank them back. Truth is I am not sure. I have never seen her interact with any other dog so I am unclear on that. But I have had so many comments from strangers on my dog that I am aware of bias against pitbulls which extends to the treatment of my dog. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 21:38:32 GMT
Also Eddie-n-Harley I specifically use a halter on my dog. I do not use a collar. I do not like the idea of choking a dog. Second my dog does not approach strangers either. She is not that kind of dog. When we are on a walk it is business and she is trained to walk along side us and not stop. I do have one elderly neighbor that I see out walking sometimes. I will stop to chat with her and she will bend down and pet my dog so my dog does look forward to seeing her. |
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Post by Clair on May 27, 2017 21:54:38 GMT
So what you are really saying is that you want everyone to treat your pit bull if it the friendliest sweetest breed of dog... You've chosen this dog.
You keep calling it bias and discrimination....it's a freaking pit bull. It's not like they are discriminating against humans.
Your dog may be sweet but I'm not willing to bet my child, dog, or anything else on that.
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Post by pondrunner on May 27, 2017 21:54:50 GMT
I tell my kids not to approach any dog to pet it ever. Pit bull or chihuahua or anything in between. If the pit bull owners feel like that's discrimination then I don't know what to say. They might only see me avoiding their personal dog and not know that my policy is don't approach unknown dogs and think it's personal.
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 22:06:14 GMT
I tell my kids not to approach any dog to pet it ever. Pit bull or chihuahua or anything in between. If the pit bull owners feel like that's discrimination then I don't know what to say. They might only see me avoiding their personal dog and not know that my policy is don't approach unknown dogs and think it's personal. I have children. I do not think it's responsible parenting to allow any of my children to approach unknown dogs. That completely missed my point. Let me see if I can explain better. We walk our dog along a trail and at the end of the trail is an ice cream place. We often take our dog and our children walking and then stop for an ice cream. Just two weeks ago we were out walking with our two youngest children and we stopped for an ice cream. There was a very large dog whose breed I did not know. My dog. And a beagle. A boy around 7 or 8 years old was eating an ice cream. When he finished, he approached the owners of the beagle and asked if he could pet their dog. They said no. Boy walked over and asked the owners of the big dog if he could pet their dog. They said yes and boy petted their dog. Then boy approached me and asked if he could pet my dog. I said yes. Mom said no. Why would he be allowed to pet the other two dogs but not mine? And I was the only pet owner there with children. Our youngest is 7. |
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Post by elaine on May 27, 2017 22:12:37 GMT
After my dog was mauled and almost killed by a pit bull who broke his collar while being walked, I am fine with the ban.
Your dog might be a sweetheart, but both my dog and I have scars from a Pit attack. They are bred to be aggressive - guarding is their work.
My dog's breed was bred to go after mice/rats/rodents on farms. She will always chase squirrels; and dog experts say not to have pet rodents in the same house as them. It is her genetically programmed work to hunt and kill them. I'd be naive to ignore that and potentially put a pet guinea pig at risk in our house.
We have my dog in Petsmart's Pet Hotel for a total of about 2 weeks per year when we are on various vacations. I also put her in Doggie Day Camp while she is boarding there. It is why I use them. If they started taking Pit Bulls and unneutered males into Doggie Day Camp, I'd not only not put her in, I'd also take my boarding business elsewhere. They make approximately $800 per year from us in boarding and Day Camp fees - they'd lose that if they changed their policies.
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 22:16:02 GMT
So what you are really saying is that you want everyone to treat your pit bull if it the friendliest sweetest breed of dog... You've chosen this dog. You keep calling it bias and discrimination....it's a freaking pit bull. It's not like they are discriminating against humans. Your dog may be sweet but I'm not willing to bet my child, dog, or anything else on that. Actually I did not ask anybody their opinion of pitbulls. I did not come here to complain. I did not attempt to change minds. I didn't do any of this things. At all. What I asked and nobody answered is if you felt a policy was discriminatory and you disagreed with it would you still support the business. That's what I specifically asked. And I could have just said that but then someone would have come in here and specifically asked about what kind of policy I was talking about and that without specifics they couldn't give an opinion and therefore I just chose to lay it all out in my very first post so you would have full details. |
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Post by elaine on May 27, 2017 23:03:14 GMT
We all discriminate numerous times per day. Every time you choose one thing instead of something else, you are discriminating.
Sometimes discrimination is a good thing for safety's sake. I discriminate against purchasing cars that have poor safety ratings. Most school districts discriminate against hiring people with a criminal past, especially sex offenders.
Yes, Petsmart's policy discriminates against a variety of things - unneutered dogs, dogs who are not up-to-date with their vaccines, dogs who aren't treated for fleas, and some bully breeds, including Pit Bulls.
And I am okay with that.
And I would guess that you are fine with some of the discrimination too - you didn't complain about vaccine requirements in your letter did you? Or flea treatment? Those requirements are discrimination.
Discrimination, in the legal sense, only applies to certain protected classes of people. It doesn't apply to anything else in a legal sense. And, at its broadest, all discrimination means is choosing something or eliminating something based on a set of characteristics.
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on May 27, 2017 23:18:28 GMT
So what you are really saying is that you want everyone to treat your pit bull if it the friendliest sweetest breed of dog... You've chosen this dog. You keep calling it bias and discrimination....it's a freaking pit bull. It's not like they are discriminating against humans. Your dog may be sweet but I'm not willing to bet my child, dog, or anything else on that. Actually I did not ask anybody their opinion of pitbulls. I did not come here to complain. I did not attempt to change minds. I didn't do any of this things. At all. What I asked and nobody answered is if you felt a policy was discriminatory and you disagreed with it would you still support the business. That's what I specifically asked. And I could have just said that but then someone would have come in here and specifically asked about what kind of policy I was talking about and that without specifics they couldn't give an opinion and therefore I just chose to lay it all out in my very first post so you would have full details. I understand that you are asking about the policy and if you feel it's discriminatory would you continue to support the business. Well, I guess my answer would be that the policy IS discriminatory - BUT I don't disagree with it. You do, so you will have to decide if you want to support the business with your dollars. If I were a customer there, I'd welcome that policy. I do believe that the normal nature of a pit bull and breeds like it is to be aggressive and territorial. Of course there are some that are not like that - at least so far - and not all dogs of any breed are as well trained as your dog appears to be. I can't tell you how many people I know who say that their pit bull is the sweetest dog ever and wouldn't hurt a fly. Many of them chose a pit bull because they seem to want to prove that they can be gentle and docile dogs. But how many of the owners of dogs who have attacked also said that? And I also can't tell you how many students I've had over decades of teaching who have told me that their family got a pit bull BECAUSE it's an aggressive and protective dog. And too many of those owners allow their dog to have puppies, which just continues that aggressive breed trait. |
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Post by darkangel090260 on May 27, 2017 23:26:44 GMT
small breed of dog are more likely to bite than large breed of dog. I have been around pit all my life and have no fear of them. Now my mom has a pack of the nasty little breed dog. I have been bitten at least a dozen time by one of her female dogs. Just for walking in the house even with my mom at home. I do not allow my kids around small dog or chow chows. However they will go up and ask to pet pretty much any other dog. I would have a pit now if we could have them.
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2017 23:30:22 GMT
We all discriminate numerous times per day. Every time you choose one thing instead of something else, you are discriminating. Sometimes discrimination is a good thing for safety's sake. I discriminate against purchasing cars that have poor safety ratings. Most school districts discriminate against hiring people with a criminal past, especially sex offenders. Yes, Petsmart's policy discriminates against a variety of things - unneutered dogs, dogs who are not up-to-date with their vaccines, dogs who aren't treated for fleas, and some bully breeds, including Pit Bulls. And I am okay with that. And I would guess that you are fine with some of the discrimination too - you didn't complain about vaccine requirements in your letter did you? Or flea treatment? Those requirements are discrimination. Discrimination, in the legal sense, only applies to certain protected classes of people. It doesn't apply to anything else in a legal sense. And, at its broadest, all discrimination means is choosing something or eliminating something based on a set of characteristics. No where did I imply that they didn't have a right to discriminate on the basis of anything they want. They are a business and how they choose to run their business is up to them. Also I wrote a very nice letter asking for an explanation. And I haven't received a response yet so I can evaluate where they are coming from. Like I said if it is an insurance issue I get that. I pay more in homeowner's insurance because of my dog. My dog had an appointment today for grooming. Since I don't have a response yet I cannot fully formulate my opinion and for now I kept my appointment. I just wanted to know if you would support a business if you felt like they were discriminating against your pet. If my pet was aggressive and they said they would not groom her I would totally understand. There is bias against pitbulls. I have heard it all. And on this very thread we see evidence of bias. I'm not asking you to love my dog. I'm not asking you to pet my dog. I don't discount your very real experience. You were attacked. My sister was bitten badly by a saint Bernard and to this day she fears large dogs. It took her a very long time to get comfortable with my dog. I understand completely your position. My position is my dog is well behaved. I have five years of knowing this dog. It saddens me that people fear her because of her breed because I believe based on what I know of her that if she were in a large playgroup of large dogs she would be well behaved and have a great time. I just feel like without further information I cannot decide whether I want to support this business or not. |
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Post by annabella on May 27, 2017 23:33:19 GMT
I even have one neighbor when we are out walking who will purposely walk in the street to avoid passing her on the sidewalk. I do this with pitbulls and see nothing wrong with it. I am protecting my safety against a strange dog I do not know. My neighbor who owns 2 pitbulls once saw me petting a dog and said "wow I thought you didn't like dogs" I found the most polite way to say actually I just don't like your dogs. |
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