Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 19, 2017 19:10:54 GMT
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River
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Post by River on Jun 19, 2017 19:39:47 GMT
That was heartbreaking to read. AND YES, IT MAKES ME ANGRY!! I understand the struggles officers go through to protect and serve, but when is lethal force going to stop being the only solution? It just doesn't make since. Yea I get she was already arrested last week for being trouble and it's on record that she has untreated mental illness. That's still no reason to use lethal force in this case (that I can see, but I'm aware that I only have the information the news has put out). Even if she was crazy mad and came at you with a knife, why shoot to kill in this case?
Since it seems that everything else was flagged in her file and that's why they went with guns out, was the fact she was 3 months pregnant also flagged in her file? Her poor children, 3 of which were home at the time. Is there another article that states the ages of her 4 kids?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 19, 2017 19:53:45 GMT
That was heartbreaking to read. AND YES, IT MAKES ME ANGRY!! I understand the struggles officers go through to protect and serve, but when is lethal force going to stop being the only solution? It just doesn't make since. Yea I get she was already arrested last week for being trouble and it's on record that she has untreated mental illness. That's still no reason to use lethal force in this case (that I can see, but I'm aware that I only have the information the news has put out). Even if she was crazy mad and came at you with a knife, why shoot to kill in this case? Since it seems that everything else was flagged in her file and that's why they went with guns out, was the fact she was 3 months pregnant also flagged in her file? Her poor children, 3 of which were home at the time. Is there another article that states the ages of her 4 kids? I don't think they've shared the ages of the children though they mentioned one has Down Syndrome. Being jailed as a mentally ill pregnant woman is inhuman. Her arrest last week shouldn't have happened IMHO. The same can be said for Castile. His arrest record showed there is a problem with the justice system even before he was killed. Black Lives Matter bailed out black mothers last month and that article addresses the systematic racism black women face in the penal system. Right Link |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 22:46:45 GMT
I think this happened in Seattle. I would like to know why she wasn't receiving medical care since she did have problems.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 20, 2017 0:06:09 GMT
I think this happened in Seattle. I would like to know why she wasn't receiving medical care since she did have problems. . People with mental illness often avoid medical intervention. She could have been previously medicated but making a choice to not be during her pregnancy. Had she been a white woman I think more people would be sympathetic and most importantly she and her unborn child would be alive. Happy Juneteenth right? Mary Turner except without the gore and less bullets. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 20, 2017 0:07:49 GMT
Your link is adblocked - fyi - so if anyone has an adblocker they can't read it.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 20, 2017 0:10:11 GMT
Your link is adblocked - fyi - so if anyone has an adblocker they can't read it. That would explain the high viewership. Low response.  |
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Post by Merge on Jun 20, 2017 0:20:26 GMT
Tragic and horrifying. I have no doubt that in the exact same circumstance, but with a white woman, the white woman would still be alive today.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 20, 2017 0:37:04 GMT
Tragic and horrifying. I have no doubt that in the exact same circumstance, but with a white woman, the white woman would still be alive today. I think it is tragic. But I wouldn't go this far. The woman rushed the officers with a knife. I listened to the audio and they did not go into that call belligerent. They were having a discussion about the x-box - completely calmly when suddenly you hear them crying multiple times to get back. I can hear on the audio where they've cut name and contact information - if additional information has been edited out, I will modify my opinion. But you can hear the entire exchange here- and it absolutely sounded like she attacked them. spdblotter.seattle.gov/2017/06/19/fatal-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-in-sand-point/ |
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 20, 2017 0:48:20 GMT
Tragic and horrifying. I have no doubt that in the exact same circumstance, but with a white woman, the white woman would still be alive today. I dislike statements like this. You have no way of knowing and it is inflammatory to make a definitive statement. I do wonder about the use of lethal force against a woman with a knife. Wouldn't a taser have worked? Is there a lot of police injury and death from a knife? Also, is the shoot to kill mandate still around? I would think a shot to the leg would have stopped her. |
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Post by chances on Jun 20, 2017 0:51:07 GMT
Tragic and horrifying. I have no doubt that in the exact same circumstance, but with a white woman, the white woman would still be alive today. I think it is tragic. But I wouldn't go this far. The woman rushed the officers with a knife. I listened to the audio and they did not go into that call belligerent. They were having a discussion about the x-box - completely calmly when suddenly you hear them crying multiple times to get back. I can hear on the audio where they've cut name and contact information - if additional information has been edited out, I will modify my opinion. But you can hear the entire exchange here- and it absolutely sounded like she attacked them. spdblotter.seattle.gov/2017/06/19/fatal-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-in-sand-point/Well about a week ago a white woman advanced on police with a machete. They used tasers and tear gas; everyone is alive. White people routinely engage in behavior that results in death for racial minorities. ----- Atchison says the series of events began at 10:38 Thursday morning when Centrally Police went to McGuire's residence in a follow-up investigation into a stolen dog complaint. During an initial interview, McGuire attempted to flee from officers and ran into her house in an effort to avoid arrest. Officers pursued McGuire into the house where she allegedly picked up a machete, raised it above her head and began advancing towards officers. Atchison says officers deployed a taser in an effort to subdue her, but it had little effect and she was able to run into a nearby bedroom. McGuire then led officers to believe she was in possession of a firearm, at which point officers took up a defensive stance and set up a parameter around the residence. www.wjbdradio.com/local-news/2017/06/08/woman-who-allegedly-threatened-centralia-police-with-machete-arrested-following-standoff-with-police |
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Post by bc2ca on Jun 20, 2017 0:54:13 GMT
I agree it is tragic, and abhor the shoot to kill approach from law enforcement. My hope is that law enforcement will put some resources into developing techniques to de-escalate confrontations especially when you know mental illness is a factor.
I don't know how the officers could have known she was pregnant. At three months, it just wouldn't be obvious or visible.
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Post by mnmloveli on Jun 20, 2017 0:55:27 GMT
Tragic and horrifying. I have no doubt that in the exact same circumstance, but with a white woman, the white woman would still be alive today. I think it is tragic. But I wouldn't go this far. The woman rushed the officers with a knife. I listened to the audio and they did not go into that call belligerent. They were having a discussion about the x-box - completely calmly when suddenly you hear them crying multiple times to get back. I can hear on the audio where they've cut name and contact information - if additional information has been edited out, I will modify my opinion. But you can hear the entire exchange here- and it absolutely sounded like she attacked them. spdblotter.seattle.gov/2017/06/19/fatal-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-in-sand-point/I think someone was looking over those defenseless children so she didn't go after them with the knife. That would have been a tragedy. Maybe now her family can step in and give those children the care they need. In this day, for a mother to have custody of her children who she thinks are going to turn into werewolves (as she reported to the police previously) is a horrible situation. |
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 20, 2017 1:06:27 GMT
This is local to me, and my private FB groups are getting resources for the kids, one of which is (I think) special needs.
Not that long ago, a white guy in the same neighborhood knifed two neighbors and was still armed when the police talked him down and took him into custody. There is also a great photo today of q police officer talking down a white protester who had his hand on his gun. Seattle police have been under a consent decree for the past few years and have been getting deescalation training that has reduced the number of officer-involved deaths here. That is good. It is worth asking, given everything we know about implicit bias, if race causes officers to perceive situations differently, even if they are trying not to.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 20, 2017 1:14:11 GMT
Tragic and horrifying. I have no doubt that in the exact same circumstance, but with a white woman, the white woman would still be alive today. I think it is tragic. But I wouldn't go this far. The woman rushed the officers with a knife. I listened to the audio and they did not go into that call belligerent. They were having a discussion about the x-box - completely calmly when suddenly you hear them crying multiple times to get back. I can hear on the audio where they've cut name and contact information - if additional information has been edited out, I will modify my opinion. But you can hear the entire exchange here- and it absolutely sounded like she attacked them. spdblotter.seattle.gov/2017/06/19/fatal-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-in-sand-point/I agree. I don't think that the result would have been different if she were white--all other things the same. She charged the officers with a knife. It's sad that families are not able to take care of the mentally ill, especially in this instance where she had been exhibiting dangerous behaviors prior. We need to care for these people! |
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suzastampin
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Post by suzastampin on Jun 20, 2017 1:16:26 GMT
Tragic and horrifying. I have no doubt that in the exact same circumstance, but with a white woman, the white woman would still be alive today. Also, is the shoot to kill mandate still around? I would think a shot to the leg would have stopped her. I was going to say the same thing. It's one thing to unload a magazine into someone when they are shooting at them. What I don't understand is why officers need to unload when someone is not advancing toward them or is not carrying a gun. A number of years ago, there was a case tried in my area that was moved here due to the defense of the officer's lawyers felt they could not get a fair trial in the area where the shooting happened. A black man was in his vestibule and reached for his wallet. I've forgotten how many shots the police hit him with, but it was A LOT. I don't understand the need to fill them full of holes, where, if they are a good shot, it only takes a couple of shots to kill someone. That said, why shoot to kill so often, rather than to just disable? |
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Post by chances on Jun 20, 2017 1:18:49 GMT
This is local to me, and my private FB groups are getting resources for the kids, one of which is (I think) special needs. Not that long ago, a white guy in the same neighborhood knifed two neighbors and was still armed when the police talked him down and took him into custody. There is also a great photo today of q police officer talking down a white protester who had his hand on his gun. Seattle police have been under a consent decree for the past few years and have been getting deescalation training that has reduced the number of officer-involved deaths here. That is good. It is worth asking, given everything we know about implicit bias, if race causes officers to perceive situations differently, even if they are trying not to. The research says they do. It's important to have honest and open conversations. I'm glad to hear about the deescalation trainings and hope they can benefit everyone in the future. |
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Post by Merge on Jun 20, 2017 1:27:36 GMT
I think it is tragic. But I wouldn't go this far. The woman rushed the officers with a knife. I listened to the audio and they did not go into that call belligerent. They were having a discussion about the x-box - completely calmly when suddenly you hear them crying multiple times to get back. I can hear on the audio where they've cut name and contact information - if additional information has been edited out, I will modify my opinion. But you can hear the entire exchange here- and it absolutely sounded like she attacked them. spdblotter.seattle.gov/2017/06/19/fatal-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-in-sand-point/Well about a week ago a white woman advanced on police with a machete. They used tasers and tear gas; everyone is alive. White people routinely engage in behavior that results in death for racial minorities. ----- Atchison says the series of events began at 10:38 Thursday morning when Centrally Police went to McGuire's residence in a follow-up investigation into a stolen dog complaint. During an initial interview, McGuire attempted to flee from officers and ran into her house in an effort to avoid arrest. Officers pursued McGuire into the house where she allegedly picked up a machete, raised it above her head and began advancing towards officers. Atchison says officers deployed a taser in an effort to subdue her, but it had little effect and she was able to run into a nearby bedroom. McGuire then led officers to believe she was in possession of a firearm, at which point officers took up a defensive stance and set up a parameter around the residence. www.wjbdradio.com/local-news/2017/06/08/woman-who-allegedly-threatened-centralia-police-with-machete-arrested-following-standoff-with-policeExactly. No, I can't make a definitive statement about what would have happened, but police seem able to defuse these situations without killing the person in other circumstances. When they aren't able, it's disproportionately likely that the person they kill is black. Personally, I dislike the tendency of white America to want to overlook this or explain it away. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 20, 2017 13:45:21 GMT
I asked a friend LEO why--in the case of a knife wielding person--that a Taser would/wouldn't be a better choice. I learned something new.
DISCLAIMER---I am NOT in any way shape or form judging or making a conclusion or making excuses or blaming a victim regarding the OP. This is solely general information.
My friend stated that while they have to make decisions in split seconds and it's easy to "create" scenarios in hindsight, they are assessing and processing all that they can about the incidents as they are happening--in seconds.
He stated the following, which I found to be interesting:
Tasers (the little prong things) BOTH have to attach to skin to be effective. If someone has clothing that is full coverage (long sleeves, pants, jackets, etc.) a taser won't work.
A taser has one and only one cartridges ("bullet") so if they miss or it does not attach as they should, they have to stop and insert a new cartridge and try again. Because of all the 20+ pounds of equipment they already carry upon their person, they may not be carrying a second or third cartridge on their belt).
They might not have time to reload a taser as incidents happen in a matter of seconds.
Tasers only have a reach of 20' or less, are still attached to the taser gun and if they don't attach or they need to reload...
People move faster than you think.
Knives can easily penetrate Kevlar. Kevlar can be cut with scissors. Kevlar cannot be "broken" by bullets (stopping power).
Being in close proximity physical altercations is not the ideal situation for anyone.
He said that being a woman aggressor is not enough to "go easy" he said that he has come across women who seemingly have superhuman strength when adrenaline is pumping, or if drugs are being used or when someone is mentally unstable.
He stated that he wishes with all his being that people would stop saying LEO are trained to "shoot to kill". He said they are trained to aim for the largest mass to stop whatever threat they are dealing with, he stated unless you are in the movies--shooting the hand with a weapon is an rare anomaly as is shooting in the arm or leg. He also stated that they don't head out to calls with any intent to kill anyone.
He stated that suspects holding a weapon can still attack (shoot, knife) even if they have fallen down, been shot.
He stated that in a volatile situation they only often get one chance to stop a threat.
Just some interesting information and perspectives. I learned a bunch of new stuff speaking to him about this.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 15:06:14 GMT
I asked a friend LEO why--in the case of a knife wielding person--that a Taser would/wouldn't be a better choice. I learned something new. DISCLAIMER---I am NOT in any way shape or form judging or making a conclusion or making excuses or blaming a victim regarding the OP. This is solely general information. My friend stated that while they have to make decisions in split seconds and it's easy to "create" scenarios in hindsight, they are assessing and processing all that they can about the incidents as they are happening--in seconds. He stated the following, which I found to be interesting: Tasers (the little prong things) BOTH have to attach to skin to be effective. If someone has clothing that is full coverage (long sleeves, pants, jackets, etc.) a taser won't work. A taser has one and only one cartridges ("bullet") so if they miss or it does not attach as they should, they have to stop and insert a new cartridge and try again. Because of all the 20+ pounds of equipment they already carry upon their person, they may not be carrying a second or third cartridge on their belt). They might not have time to reload a taser as incidents happen in a matter of seconds. Tasers only have a reach of 20' or less, are still attached to the taser gun and if they don't attach or they need to reload... People move faster than you think. Knives can easily penetrate Kevlar. Kevlar can be cut with scissors. Kevlar cannot be "broken" by bullets (stopping power). Being in close proximity physical altercations is not the ideal situation for anyone. He said that being a woman aggressor is not enough to "go easy" he said that he has come across women who seemingly have superhuman strength when adrenaline is pumping, or if drugs are being used or when someone is mentally unstable. He stated that he wishes with all his being that people would stop saying LEO are trained to "shoot to kill". He said they are trained to aim for the largest mass to stop whatever threat they are dealing with, he stated unless you are in the movies--shooting the hand with a weapon is an rare anomaly as is shooting in the arm or leg. He also stated that they don't head out to calls with any intent to kill anyone. He stated that suspects holding a weapon can still attack (shoot, knife) even if they have fallen down, been shot. He stated that in a volatile situation they only often get one chance to stop a threat. Just some interesting information and perspectives. I learned a bunch of new stuff speaking to him about this. Did you get the chance to ask your LEO friend what he thought about shooting into an 3x occupied vehicle? Did he have any solutions to what should be seen as a problem by all American citizens? What would he have done in the same situation? Have you ever heard your friend use racial slurs? Those are things I would be interested in because most everything you've shared is either common knowledge or know to me as a LEO kid. mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/us/before-philando-castiles-fatal-encounter-a-costly-trail-of-minor-traffic-stops.html |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 21, 2017 15:47:21 GMT
I asked a friend LEO why--in the case of a knife wielding person--that a Taser would/wouldn't be a better choice. I learned something new. DISCLAIMER---I am NOT in any way shape or form judging or making a conclusion or making excuses or blaming a victim regarding the OP. This is solely general information. My friend stated that while they have to make decisions in split seconds and it's easy to "create" scenarios in hindsight, they are assessing and processing all that they can about the incidents as they are happening--in seconds. He stated the following, which I found to be interesting: Tasers (the little prong things) BOTH have to attach to skin to be effective. If someone has clothing that is full coverage (long sleeves, pants, jackets, etc.) a taser won't work. A taser has one and only one cartridges ("bullet") so if they miss or it does not attach as they should, they have to stop and insert a new cartridge and try again. Because of all the 20+ pounds of equipment they already carry upon their person, they may not be carrying a second or third cartridge on their belt). They might not have time to reload a taser as incidents happen in a matter of seconds. Tasers only have a reach of 20' or less, are still attached to the taser gun and if they don't attach or they need to reload... People move faster than you think. Knives can easily penetrate Kevlar. Kevlar can be cut with scissors. Kevlar cannot be "broken" by bullets (stopping power). Being in close proximity physical altercations is not the ideal situation for anyone. He said that being a woman aggressor is not enough to "go easy" he said that he has come across women who seemingly have superhuman strength when adrenaline is pumping, or if drugs are being used or when someone is mentally unstable. He stated that he wishes with all his being that people would stop saying LEO are trained to "shoot to kill". He said they are trained to aim for the largest mass to stop whatever threat they are dealing with, he stated unless you are in the movies--shooting the hand with a weapon is an rare anomaly as is shooting in the arm or leg. He also stated that they don't head out to calls with any intent to kill anyone. He stated that suspects holding a weapon can still attack (shoot, knife) even if they have fallen down, been shot. He stated that in a volatile situation they only often get one chance to stop a threat. Just some interesting information and perspectives. I learned a bunch of new stuff speaking to him about this. Did you get the chance to ask your LEO friend what he thought about shooting into an 3x occupied vehicle? Did he have any solutions to what should be seen as a problem by all American citizens? What would he have done in the same situation? Have you ever heard your friend use racial slurs? Those are things I would be interested in because most everything you've shared is either common knowledge or know to me as a LEO kid. mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/us/before-philando-castiles-fatal-encounter-a-costly-trail-of-minor-traffic-stops.htmlNo, I did not ask about shooting 3x into a car, I asked about using a Taser vs gun specifically. He has lots to say about what he sees and what things can be done to help make things better, however, its not all universal as issues in communities differ. He goes into the community he serves and is not just a LEO, he is active in and promotes community well being. Never ever have I heard my friend use racial slurs. Well good then. I so very much apologize for posting something that I learned that I thought I would share. Smh You do everything in your being to try to make other people feel like an asshole. You are near impossible to talk to and I'm just not that into trying with you anymore. It's not me...it's YOU. |
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Jun 21, 2017 15:50:38 GMT
I asked a friend LEO why--in the case of a knife wielding person--that a Taser would/wouldn't be a better choice. I learned something new. DISCLAIMER---I am NOT in any way shape or form judging or making a conclusion or making excuses or blaming a victim regarding the OP. This is solely general information. My friend stated that while they have to make decisions in split seconds and it's easy to "create" scenarios in hindsight, they are assessing and processing all that they can about the incidents as they are happening--in seconds. He stated the following, which I found to be interesting: Tasers (the little prong things) BOTH have to attach to skin to be effective. If someone has clothing that is full coverage (long sleeves, pants, jackets, etc.) a taser won't work. A taser has one and only one cartridges ("bullet") so if they miss or it does not attach as they should, they have to stop and insert a new cartridge and try again. Because of all the 20+ pounds of equipment they already carry upon their person, they may not be carrying a second or third cartridge on their belt). They might not have time to reload a taser as incidents happen in a matter of seconds. Tasers only have a reach of 20' or less, are still attached to the taser gun and if they don't attach or they need to reload... People move faster than you think. Knives can easily penetrate Kevlar. Kevlar can be cut with scissors. Kevlar cannot be "broken" by bullets (stopping power). Being in close proximity physical altercations is not the ideal situation for anyone. He said that being a woman aggressor is not enough to "go easy" he said that he has come across women who seemingly have superhuman strength when adrenaline is pumping, or if drugs are being used or when someone is mentally unstable. He stated that he wishes with all his being that people would stop saying LEO are trained to "shoot to kill". He said they are trained to aim for the largest mass to stop whatever threat they are dealing with, he stated unless you are in the movies--shooting the hand with a weapon is an rare anomaly as is shooting in the arm or leg. He also stated that they don't head out to calls with any intent to kill anyone. He stated that suspects holding a weapon can still attack (shoot, knife) even if they have fallen down, been shot. He stated that in a volatile situation they only often get one chance to stop a threat. Just some interesting information and perspectives. I learned a bunch of new stuff speaking to him about this. Did you get the chance to ask your LEO friend what he thought about shooting into an 3x occupied vehicle? Did he have any solutions to what should be seen as a problem by all American citizens? What would he have done in the same situation? Have you ever heard your friend use racial slurs? Those are things I would be interested in because most everything you've shared is either common knowledge or know to me as a LEO kid. mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/us/before-philando-castiles-fatal-encounter-a-costly-trail-of-minor-traffic-stops.htmlolan, are you genuinely looking for explanations and solutions? It really seems as though you are more concerned about creating a fight than you are about a solution. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 15:58:40 GMT
No, I did not ask about shooting 3x into a car, I asked about using a Taser vs gun specifically. He has lots to say about what he sees and what things can be done to help make things better, however, its not all universal as issues in communities differ. He goes into the community he serves and is not just a LEO, he is active in and promotes community well being. Never ever have I heard my friend use racial slurs. Well god then. I so very much apologize for posting something that I learned that I thought I would share. Smh My response to you was curt. I would have loved to hear his thoughts particularly as it relates to solutions and I could have worded it better. The hate crime not yet classified as a hate crime in Maryland had a side story where a police employee can be seen on Facebook commenting in a congratulatory way to the killer...all while using pretty derogatory language. We need to admit a large number of police have similar views otherwise we wouldn't have so many dead black people. And I don't think I need to say no one is reporting on non-fatal instances of police abuse...it's not happening. Look at the justice system in totality. Look at the history of black people in totality. Get it? If you have an obligation to protect and serve the community I don't get why a segment of America gets a death sentence while everyone sits around sorry it all happened. We should all be doing something. They have a responsibility to us. I don't get why the onus is placed on the dead citizen. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 16:00:02 GMT
I acknowledged my curt tone while you were editing.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 21, 2017 16:03:09 GMT
I think the Philando Castiles case is completely different with a complete different set of issues - and yes some very much racially based. In watching the dash cam it's pretty clear the officer was scared. I have little reason to doubt that a big part of his fear was hearing a black man tell him he had a gun, and his response would probably be very different if it was a white man. Similar to the studies on how people perceive black youth - typically over estimating their age and fearing them more than a similarly aged white child - there's no doubt racial bias can escalate interactions between the community and police and it's absolutely important that we find ways to ensure the police are acting appropriately. My issue is your conflating Philando Castiles with Charleena Lyles. When an individual picks up a deadly weapon and rushes officers, I don't care what color your skin is - there's a good chance lethal force will be used against you - particularly when there is literally seconds between a normal conversation and her rushing them with a knife (which I'm sure is in no small part due to her mental health). |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 16:03:37 GMT
olan, are you genuinely looking for explanations and solutions? It really seems as though you are more concerned about creating a fight than you are about a solution. I am genuinely looking for solutions and action on the part of every American regardless if this directly impacts you. The second hand cop dialogue all points to "hey it was her or us". I wished more commentary and thoughts about the uptick in dead black people would be addressed by law enforcement. It's pretty quiet in their community. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 16:04:32 GMT
I think the Philando Castiles case is completely different with a complete different set of issues - and yes some very much racially based. In watching the dash cam it's pretty clear the officer was scared. I have little reason to doubt that a big part of his fear was hearing a black man tell him he had a gun, and his response would probably be very different if it was a white man. Similar to the studies on how people perceive black youth - typically over estimating their age and fearing them more than a similarly aged white child - there's no doubt racial bias can escalate interactions between the community and police and it's absolutely important that we find ways to ensure the police are acting appropriately. My issue is your conflating Philando Castiles with Charleena Lyles. When an individual picks up a deadly weapon and rushes officers, I don't care what color your skin is - there's a good chance lethal force will be used against you - particularly when there is literally seconds between a normal conversation and her rushing them with a knife (which I'm sure is in no small part due to her mental health). I accidentally included the link. It was meant for the actual Castile thread. |
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Jun 21, 2017 16:15:23 GMT
Not sure I am understanding a comment upthread. But I just wanted to state that just because an action is taken against a person of a different color/religion/etc., it does not mean it is a hate crime.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 16:16:54 GMT
I think the Philando Castiles case is completely different with a complete different set of issues - and yes some very much racially based. In watching the dash cam it's pretty clear the officer was scared. I have little reason to doubt that a big part of his fear was hearing a black man tell him he had a gun, and his response would probably be very different if it was a white man. Similar to the studies on how people perceive black youth - typically over estimating their age and fearing them more than a similarly aged white child - there's no doubt racial bias can escalate interactions between the community and police and it's absolutely important that we find ways to ensure the police are acting appropriately. My issue is your conflating Philando Castiles with Charleena Lyles. When an individual picks up a deadly weapon and rushes officers, I don't care what color your skin is - there's a good chance lethal force will be used against you - particularly when there is literally seconds between a normal conversation and her rushing them with a knife (which I'm sure is in no small part due to her mental health). I accidentally included the link. It was meant for the actual Castile thread. Actually it's even worse ha! I am confused which thread I am posting on. Lyles or Castile I am the OP of both but I am hoping contextual it's clear what I meant and I agree with you that the two cases are very different though they both result in a dead human being. My response to @papercraftadvocate was also clouded by me reading the old thread titled "Another Black Man Killed" it's the first thread I started about the Castile case...well really it was the N.O. police department that time but Castile was killed the day after. She responded a lot in that thread and since I hadn't recognized that until just now...well I was curt and I could have worded it differently. |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 16:28:27 GMT
Not sure I am understanding a comment upthread. But I just wanted to state that just because an action is taken against a person of a different color/religion/etc., it does not mean it is a hate crime. Clarification: I asked if papercraftadvocate had known her friend to use a racial slur in like company. She said he had never. I mentioned the hate crime not yet considered a hate crime that happened at the UofMD. A side story happened. An Anne Arundle police employee was found essentially saying "Good job Steve Urbanski you killed a nigger" and he has to date only been suspended and not fired. I brought that up to say even before we have a Castile or Lyle there is some offense where someone should say hmmm do they really belong on the force. I know the definition of a hate crime. America disagrees with me. Maybe Urbanski was just depressed or an alcoholic like his parents (employees of UofMd) are saying. 2ndLt. Richard Collins III would be alive if he was a white kid standing at the bus stop though. This same community produced the guy who went to NY to "kill black men" I don't think that RECENT case is being classified as a hate crime either. You can again look to this very same community to find nooses hanging at public schools with it being called yep you guessed it...a teenage prank. Two kids on trial right now. The community responded with some beautiful sidewalk chalk art. No one is calling it a hotbed for terrorism though* shrugs* |
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