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Sept 28, 2024 10:21:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 10:40:50 GMT
But you can't blame someone for not putting their hands on the wheel and then not place blame for approaching a police car in the dark after reporting an active crime. If you're making such a blanket statement about not approaching a police car in the dark, does that include the possibility that this woman could very well have been the victim of that crime that had been reported and she was approaching the police car for help? She wasn't on this occasion but it could very well be the case any other time. The police officer didn't know she wasn't though and it's a sad reflection that he didn't even give her the benefit of the doubt before he acted so impulsively and ended up taking someone's life. |
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 20, 2017 12:01:33 GMT
FYI, since this seems to have been mentioned upthread, I follow a ton of Black Lives Matter people in Twitter and they have been posting a lot about this. It simply isn't true that BLM only cares when a person of color gets shot by an officer.
We do not live in a country where I am willing to say, if you approach a police officer, you take the risk that they will shoot you.
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Post by gailoh on Jul 20, 2017 12:09:45 GMT
heartbreaking...
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 20, 2017 12:11:08 GMT
I think this a complete tragedy and it's terrible she lost her life. However I think it's unwise to get involved in police activity. If something was going on in her alley, she should have let them find it and stay inside. What if the assailant attacked her or she got caught in some crossfire shooting between the assailant and the police? Not sure how the police would find any suspects with their lights off? People can hear a car driving through. The police really should have been walking through the alley to thoroughly investigate every bush and behind dumpsters and she should have stayed home, not try to save the life of a woman she may or may not have heard. In the aftermath of her shooting, I'm sure a dozen cars showed up and if there was a couple in the alley someone would have seen them exit. Did 911 call her back and ask for her assistance? How does she know they needed a civilian's help? Again she could have given her address over the phone and they walk up to her apt to look out her window to get a feel for what area she's referring to. It may have come out of a neighbor's apt window. I understand she had a good heart and was a good Samaritan, but nighttime/alleys/police = dangerous combo. I dated a police officer many years ago and he told me once he was sitting in his car and someone approached his car and knocked on his window and because he didn't see the person coming it scared the shit out of him and he grabbed his gun and was angry at the person, like how dare he do that. I think we as civilians don't understand the fear police officers have of their life. Because I would have thought nothing of knocking on a police officers car window if I needed help. We don't see if from their angle. Just this month a police woman in NYC was was murdered sitting in her car. The fear is real for them. And dani -mani, can't remember how long she'd lived in America but this line of thinking might be obvious to you/Americans and wasn't to her as an Australian. I would have thought the same as her as well. But I haven't really had much contact with police at all and I would imagine more in my area are the same. |
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Post by miominmio on Jul 20, 2017 12:13:36 GMT
This woman's book about how the police are trained and react in America is really really thought provoking . She emphasises how poorly police are trained in many cases- especially when it comes to de-escalating a situation,which is or should be high on their priority list. She also looks into the phrase 'contempt of cop' and believes it's the cause of many inappropriate arrests, and unlawful killings by PO . I've seen her talk on lots of programmes and she's very eloquent and informed, as an ex LA cop herself . www.thelosangelespost.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cheryl-dorsey-book.jpgIt seems to be an interesting book, I'll try to find it. |
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Post by miominmio on Jul 20, 2017 12:16:42 GMT
I do feel it's being glossed over when you look at all the reasons people have for why some of these shootings have occurred in other situations. People harp on the fact you need to keep your hands on the wheel if pulled over, don't do this, don't do that, etc. To me, this is no different. At the same time, she's no more responsible for her death than some of those shot by the police recently (and please note the word some; some were, in my opinion, justified). But you can't blame someone for not putting their hands on the wheel and then not place blame for approaching a police car in the dark after reporting an active crime. So many people on a thread said they've never been taught what to do when pulled over, so again, I don't see how it's okay to use her ignorance but not others? I'm struggling with what a lot of people see as double standard, that's all. Maybe because that, as an Australian, she hasn't been taught that she has to be afraid of the cops? Most of us from other first world countries, are taught that the cops are there to keep us safe. |
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 20, 2017 12:38:50 GMT
I do feel it's being glossed over when you look at all the reasons people have for why some of these shootings have occurred in other situations. People harp on the fact you need to keep your hands on the wheel if pulled over, don't do this, don't do that, etc. To me, this is no different. At the same time, she's no more responsible for her death than some of those shot by the police recently (and please note the word some; some were, in my opinion, justified). But you can't blame someone for not putting their hands on the wheel and then not place blame for approaching a police car in the dark after reporting an active crime. So many people on a thread said they've never been taught what to do when pulled over, so again, I don't see how it's okay to use her ignorance but not others? I'm struggling with what a lot of people see as double standard, that's all. Maybe because that, as an Australian, she hasn't been taught that she has to be afraid of the cops? Most of us from other first world countries, are taught that the cops are there to keep us safe. In the U.S., there is a meme that goes around any time there is a disaster or crisis, which is Mr. Rodgers saying "look for the helpers." I think that at least for communities in the U.S. who have historically had a good relationship with police, it has been standard to teach kids that when there is a problem, they should seek out a person in uniform. |
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 20, 2017 14:05:30 GMT
I see people twisting my words, because I never said don't approach a police car "ever"
What I said is she approached a police car in an alley in the dark...one that we now know was there at 11:30pm and was sitting in a dark alley with no lights on behind her house which was in a neighborhood we know that a crime may have been committed (the one she called about) and others had called 911 About gunshots or fireworks.
I'm sorry but if someone posted s thread with these details and a "what should I do" not a single pea would advise leaving the house, not even to "find" the police. We teach our children to seek out help from police by calling 911. We ask them to approach police if lost or hurt in public, not go outside and look for them in a dark alley after you already called for help at 11:29 at night. In fact, when children call 911, a dispatcher usually keeps them on the line until the police indicate they have the child.
There is no evidence at this time to suggest she approached them crying or yelling help or in any way to signal to them she was in distress.
So the FACTS indicate she made a series of errors just like the people everyone harps on for not putting their hands on the wheel, etc. her being Australian is irrelevant; I cannot imagine anyone in any first world country who believes someone is being raped behind their house and hears what they believe could be gunshots to willingly leave the safety of their house and venture outside for...??
My heart breaks for her family and all the families of those killed by LEO officers lately. But the facts shouldn't be glossed over if we insist on pointing out every fact in other cases.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 10:21:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 15:13:28 GMT
So the FACTS indicate she made a series of errors just like the people everyone harps on for not putting their hands on the wheel, etc. her being Australian is irrelevant; I cannot imagine anyone in any first world country who believes someone is being raped behind their house and hears what they believe could be gunshots to willingly leave the safety of their house and venture outside for...?? There are no FACTS yet so your assumption that it was a FACT that she made a series of errors if wrong. As for hearing gun shots, there is no evidence that she herself heard those and acted, as you are implying, irresponsibly, in approaching the police car. It's being reported that there may have been a loud noise that could have been a gunshot or a fire cracker but no actual evidence that there was and certainly not that she heard it. Being Australian is relevant. I'm British but I feel certain that the same would apply to most international peas on here.It just wouldn't occur to me not to approach a police car investigating a crime, that I had reported, with additional information of where the screams came from that would assist them in arresting the perpetrator or helping to locate the victim.You have no idea the layout of this alley or the proximity of it to her own house. Neither would it ever occur to me to put both hands on the wheel if I was pulled over by a policeman while driving in the US. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 20, 2017 15:20:30 GMT
I agree with Dani-Mani that there is a significant difference in the reporting (at least what I've read) of this incident versus others. There is usually an absolute rush to discuss what the victim did wrong, and how different behavior would have resulted in them not being shot. And yes, all this usually happens BEFORE we are at all aware of the actual facts in the case. I'll also go out on a limb and say if a black man had approached a police car while they were investigating a 911 call and the officer shot him after being startled by a loud noise, there'd be a fair amount of discussion about how he should have been approached the car to ensure he wouldn't have been shot, or that he shouldn't have approached the car at all. And no - that doesn't mean I'm blaming this woman for what happened. I am asking the media and people commenting (not here necessarily but online) to be introspective on why this case is being discussed differently. |
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Post by gar on Jul 20, 2017 15:25:20 GMT
I agree with Dani-Mani that there is a significant difference in the reporting (at least what I've read) of this incident versus others. There is usually an absolute rush to discuss what the victim did wrong, and how different behavior would have resulted in them not being shot. And yes, all this usually happens BEFORE we are at all aware of the actual facts in the case. I'll also go out on a limb and say if a black man had approached a police car while they were investigating a 911 call and the officer shot him after being startled by a loud noise, there'd be a fair amount of discussion about how he should have been approached the car to ensure he wouldn't have been shot, or that he shouldn't have approached the car at all. And no - that doesn't mean I'm blaming this woman for what happened. I am asking the media and people commenting (not here necessarily but online) to be introspective on why this case is being discussed differently. I can see what you're saying and that's exactly why her nationality is relevant- I realise it wasn't you arguing against that. |
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Post by jemali on Jul 20, 2017 15:25:35 GMT
If you're making such a blanket statement about not approaching a police car in the dark, does that include the possibility that this woman could very well have been the victim of that crime that had been reported and she was approaching the police car for help? She wasn't on this occasion but it could very well be the case any other time. The police officer didn't know she wasn't though and it's a sad reflection that he didn't even give her the benefit of the doubt before he acted so impulsively and ended up taking someone's life. I hadn't even thought about that. I believe she had been in America for 2-3 years. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 20, 2017 15:43:55 GMT
I'll also throw in my typical caveat of pointing out the vast regional differences in the US. I actually DID approach a police car in the dark at about midnight a few years ago. We'd just gotten home from a trip and there was a police car sitting in front of my neighbors house. I live in a small town - and absolutely equate the police with people who come when you need help. It never even occurred me that the officer might shoot me - we had a nice conversation about a potential gas leak and that they were waiting for the utility company. Now that is vastly different than what I might have done in the city I grew up in where crime was much higher and distrust of police was also much higher.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,709
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 20, 2017 15:57:38 GMT
I agree with Dani-Mani that there is a significant difference in the reporting (at least what I've read) of this incident versus others. There is usually an absolute rush to discuss what the victim did wrong, and how different behavior would have resulted in them not being shot. And yes, all this usually happens BEFORE we are at all aware of the actual facts in the case. I'll also go out on a limb and say if a black man had approached a police car while they were investigating a 911 call and the officer shot him after being startled by a loud noise, there'd be a fair amount of discussion about how he should have been approached the car to ensure he wouldn't have been shot, or that he shouldn't have approached the car at all. And no - that doesn't mean I'm blaming this woman for what happened. I am asking the media and people commenting (not here necessarily but online) to be introspective on why this case is being discussed differently. Thank you. |
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