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Post by 2peafaithful on Aug 27, 2014 14:08:57 GMT
This is so tragic. So horrible. Makes me SO angry. There are just things that don't need to happen. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Dear God let our children be children.
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Post by melanell on Aug 27, 2014 14:09:57 GMT
I am an American and I don't understand it, either. My heart breaks for the family of the instructor and for this poor, poor girl who will have to live with this her whole life.
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Aug 27, 2014 14:27:31 GMT
I think our founding fathers had the assumption that adults had enough personal responsibility to handle firearms safely. It seems this day that common sense and personal responsibility is too rare a commodity.
I fully support more laws to prosecute gun owners who don't handle their weapons responsibly. Maybe if there were legal and criminal consequences for leaving guns around the house that result in a child shooting someone or themselves, this insanity will stop. I'm also amazed at how many law enforcement officers' families are involved in these accidental shootings. GET A SAFE to lock up your weapons when children are around. I don't have children, but I lock my gun in my safe whenever a child visits. If you use the gun for self protection in your bedroom and have children--get a fingerprint safe that can be opened in 5 seconds.
My dad was in law enforcement and taught me from a young age to respect guns. I learned to shoot as a child, but it was with small caliber weapons. The shotgun and other guns with a lot of kick weren't an option for me until I was big enough to handle it. --I was my mom's height at 12.
The fact that I'm a very accurate shooter has actually been useful in making creepy acquaintances wary of me. The guy that threatened and stalked me in high school and college was intimidated because I was a better shot than him even though he had been through basic training. He knew if he broke into my house to hurt me, he'd be a dead man.
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Post by Zee on Aug 27, 2014 14:38:45 GMT
I think our founding fathers had the assumption that adults had enough personal responsibility to handle firearms safely. It seems this day that common sense and personal responsibility is too rare a commodity. I fully support more laws to prosecute gun owners who don't handle their weapons responsibly. Maybe if there were legal and criminal consequences for leaving guns around the house that result in a child shooting someone or themselves, this insanity will stop. I'm also amazed at how many law enforcement officers' families are involved in these accidental shootings. GET A SAFE to lock up your weapons when children are around. I don't have children, but I lock my gun in my safe whenever a child visits. If you use the gun for self protection in your bedroom and have children--get a fingerprint safe that can be opened in 5 seconds. My dad was in law enforcement and taught me from a young age to respect guns. I learned to shoot as a child, but it was with small caliber weapons. The shotgun and other guns with a lot of kick weren't an option for me until I was big enough to handle it. --I was my mom's height at 12. The fact that I'm a very accurate shooter has actually been useful in making creepy acquaintances wary of me. The guy that threatened and stalked me in high school and college was intimidated because I was a better shot than him even though he had been through basic training. He knew if he broke into my house to hurt me, he'd be a dead man. Then why did he threaten and stalk you in the first place? I really don't get most of your stories. Anyway, just another American here letting you know we're not all gun nuts. I never even shot a pellet gun until a couple weeks ago. Guns scare me. People who let 9 year olds handle assault weapons scare me. Poor little thing has to carry this memory forever.
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Post by shanni on Aug 27, 2014 14:43:54 GMT
That is horrifying. That poor little girl. According to that video, this place is advertised as a place to go for family fun! It's a burger joint/shooting range for families. I just don't understand. Along with others that have already posted in this thread, I'm an American who doesn't understand the gun culture in this country. I just don't think that this is what the founding fathers had in mind.
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Post by jloubier on Aug 27, 2014 14:50:35 GMT
-- "Hey Honey, what can we do with the kids today? Wait. I know. Let's bring them to the shooting range and let them shoot Uzis."
-- "Good idea. We'll grab some burgers while we're there."
Idiots
Edited to say "shooting" range, not driving range. Goes to show how much I appove of guns
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Post by SabrinaM on Aug 27, 2014 14:53:37 GMT
My husband is the son of a gun shop owner and avid hunter. He grew up learning how to respect firearms. My oldest (12) is learning how to shoot (as well as use a bow/arrow) but we would never allow her to shoot an Uzi.
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IPeaFreely
Full Member
Posts: 389
Location: Castle Frankenstein
Jun 26, 2014 8:32:27 GMT
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Post by IPeaFreely on Aug 27, 2014 14:56:22 GMT
My husband's response was "bad teacher". The guy should have been able to assess her ability to handle such a gun and refused to let her.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Aug 27, 2014 15:02:05 GMT
i don't get it either
and i live in a house full of weapons
i can't think of a single reason that child should have an Uzi in her hands
that poor child will carry that guilt for the rest of her life
because the adults around her used such piss poor judgement
including the instructor that was killed
gina
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Aug 27, 2014 15:06:26 GMT
I will just echo what Grinning Cat said.
Add me to the list of people who will never understand the gun culture. Maybe 125 years ago it was commonplace, but I see NO need for it today unless you are an officer, in the armed forces, or a hunter. It boggles my mind.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 27, 2014 15:09:23 GMT
I can honestly say hitting the shooting range has never entered my mind while on vacation. I wonder if the family was experienced with guns at all - and who suggested shooting an Uzi. Utterly bizarre.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Aug 27, 2014 15:16:25 GMT
This makes me want to scoop her up and hug her. What a horrible thing to have to deal with the rest of your life. Terrible parents, I hope that this gets DFS up in their shit... or possibly even charges on her parents for allowing something like that to happen.
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Post by gar on Aug 27, 2014 15:20:02 GMT
I'm American and I don't understand it either. Agreed. Please know that not all Americans have guns or want guns. That's a given MommyofTriplets We realise it's not everyone.
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Post by willscrapforfood on Aug 27, 2014 15:25:06 GMT
Agreed. Please know that not all Americans have guns or want guns. I feel so sorry for this girl as well as the instructor's family. So sad. Another vote for this. I've even seen a gun up close and hope to live my entire life without seeing one. I come from a family of pacifists though so I know I have a different experience than many Americans.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 27, 2014 15:26:42 GMT
Well to answer my own question - apparently the Bullets and Burgers Adventure specializes in shooting automatic weapons. From their website: They pick up from all Las Vegas hotels and packages begin at only $199 per person - non shooters can come for just $60. People are seriously nuts. link
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Post by bc2ca on Aug 27, 2014 15:30:23 GMT
Bullets & Burgers is the [HASH]1 Las Vegas attraction (?!) on Trip Advisor.
A 9 year old shooting an Uzi? I can't wrap my head around this and so saddened by the idea that this is a family fun option.
I'm not a supporter or defender of guns to begin with, but half our neighbors are retired military with a very different viewpoint. The ones we talked to last night are pretty angry about this death and the irresponsibility of putting an Uzi in the hands of anyone who pays for the experience, let alone a child.
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Post by PinkPrincess77 on Aug 27, 2014 15:34:31 GMT
What a tragedy. I feel for that little girl,she'll never forget this. I'm English so I will never understand the gun culture in America. I really can't understand why anyone would be so negligent in thinking an inexperienced adult let alone a child would be able to handle that kind of a gun. Yes,part of that responsibility should be with the parents but a bigger responsibility is carried by the shooting range IMO. After all they are suppose to be the experts. Are these places not licensed to operate in a safe manner? As an American, I will never understand it either. We don't own guns, nor do we want them in our house and my husband is a former Marine, so he knows how to shoot/handle them. Knock on wood, in his 44 years (other than when serving) and in my 37 years, we have not needed any sort of weapon. I know the world is getting nuttier, so I will never say never, but at this point, no, I don't get it. It's positively reprehensible and unacceptable. That no one thought this was a bad idea blows my mind. And now this little girl will have to live with the stupidity of her parents for the rest of her life. Guns DO NOT belong in the hands of civilians... especially small children. When the fuck will people wake up and realise this? I know, never, because guns are so fucking precious to some people. The fact that guns are held in such high esteem infuriates me and saddens me. Agreed!! Automatic and semi-automatic weapons belong in the hands of military and police, that's it. People owning guns don't bother me, although it's not for us. But there definitely needs to be stricter requirements for owning guns and I don't think that civilians should be allowed arsenals. We're dealing with a client now whose wife's current husband is mentally unstable and has an arsenal of weapons at his disposal. We're trying to serve them with a restraining order, but we have to hire professionals who deal with this on a regular basis due to the instability of the current husband and his photos of his nice, large, rifle with scope and silencer attached. I will just echo what Grinning Cat said. Add me to the list of people who will never understand the gun culture. Maybe 125 years ago it was commonplace, but I see NO need for it today unless you are an officer, in the armed forces, or a hunter. It boggles my mind. I believe that is why there are amendments to the Constitution, because our world grows and changes and we need to grow and change with it. I don't think, with their rifles and muskets, that the authors of the Consitution had any idea of what weapons we'd have access to and how insane people will be, at this point. This makes me want to scoop her up and hug her. What a horrible thing to have to deal with the rest of your life. Terrible parents, I hope that this gets DFS up in their shit... or possibly even charges on her parents for allowing something like that to happen.
Agreed - I feel for her. I do feel that her parents and the range should be held responsible because they allowed her to use the gun. I've seen 'funny' videos of guns recoiling on ADULTS, I can't imagine a 9 year old child.
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KateMarie
Full Member
Refupea #31
Posts: 109
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:47 GMT
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Post by KateMarie on Aug 27, 2014 15:39:20 GMT
In my opinion, they don't!
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Aug 27, 2014 15:49:16 GMT
My husband's response was "bad teacher". The guy should have been able to assess her ability to handle such a gun and refused to let her. I'm sorry, I just feel like this is such a cop out response. And it plays a large role in why we have so many gun deaths in this country. This guy was ex (maybe current) military, trained in weapon use, trained as a trainer, and a father. If he isn't a "good" teacher then there is no such thing. And we need to start having some real dialogue about this problem. And until the "gun rights" side starts to take some ownership and offer up real conversation we aren't going to get anywhere.
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Post by shanni on Aug 27, 2014 16:12:44 GMT
Well to answer my own question - apparently the Bullets and Burgers Adventure specializes in shooting automatic weapons. From their website: They pick up from all Las Vegas hotels and packages begin at only $199 per person - non shooters can come for just $60. People are seriously nuts. linkDid anyone else catch that? (Obvious bolding and huge font is mine- couldn't figure out how to just highlight it.) So they also mix alcohol with their automatic weapons? I just don't understand.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 11, 2024 2:20:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 16:19:58 GMT
I'm a gun rights supporter, but there's no need for a young child to be handling weapons of this kind. None whatsoever.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 27, 2014 16:20:07 GMT
shanniIn my brief look at the TripAdvisor reviews (and I'm another who's that they're rated the number one attraction in Las Vegas with 894 5 star reviews!!!!) it appears that lunch is AFTER the shooting. So I don't know that they're actually adding alcohol to the insanity.
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basketdiva
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,649
Member is Online
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:09 GMT
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Post by basketdiva on Aug 27, 2014 17:45:11 GMT
My husband's response was "bad teacher". The guy should have been able to assess her ability to handle such a gun and refused to let her. My feelings exactly. If the parents want to teach their child about guns, so be it BUT, be sure it's done in a safe and age/ability manner. Want to bet that the parents of the girl sue the gun range for her emotional trauma due to the choices they made and the instructor made?
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Post by kimpossible on Aug 27, 2014 17:54:10 GMT
It is a tragedy beyond comprehension.
My first thought before I knew the family was on vacation and visiting was, "why isn't this child in school?" Most if not all Arizona kids have been back to school for a few weeks now.
I agree with what most have said, gun ownership is a huge responsibility. I am happy that the family was "training/teaching" how to use a gun. I have a different opinion about guns and would I allow my child when he was 9 to do this.
That being said, in no way should a 9 year old be learning how to use a Uzi? For me, that is beyond normal or reasonable and I just can't even imagine any situation why that would be necessary.
However, the 9 year old is going to have to live with this horrific day all of her life. The parents too have to take responsibility for putting the child in a situation to handle a weapon so powerful.
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,769
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Aug 27, 2014 17:55:48 GMT
-- "Hey Honey, what can we do with the kids today? Wait. I know. Let's bring them to the shooting range and let them shoot Uzis."
-- "Good idea. We'll grab some burgers while we're there."
Idiots Yep. I really don't get this mentality. Sorry a man lost his life so senselessly.
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Post by k8smom on Aug 27, 2014 18:00:07 GMT
I wondered the very same thing, this whole tragedy seems completely senseless.
On a side note, I had a close friend who accidentally killed someone when we were freshmen in high school. A 12 year old boy came zipping out of a driveway on a sled right in front of her car, and she was unable to stop in time. My friend went loo-loo, and has never really recovered. (It's been over 30 years.) My first thought of course was how awful if must be for the instructor's family, but then I wondered about how this little girl will bear the weight of this for the rest of her life. I don't understand why anyone would think this was an age appropriate activity for a 9 year old to begin with! Very sad!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 11, 2024 2:20:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 18:02:16 GMT
Places like this shouldn't exsist. I got blasted for dissing the gun culture in the past. This is the gun culture I am talking about. It should have no place in a civilized country. Unreal.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Aug 27, 2014 18:09:30 GMT
you sure are good at a lot of things!
and really- your statement makes no sense
being a good shot has no bearing on how well you'd handle yourself in the above situation
gina
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Post by kkooch on Aug 27, 2014 19:26:01 GMT
This isn't the first time this has happened either with children shooting uzi's. A few years back this happened to a 8 year old who was at a gun show not that far from here, unfortunately the child shot himself in the head and died when the gun kicked. I would have hoped that because of that tragedy ALL states should have set an age limit to using one.
So sad for all involved.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 27, 2014 19:59:36 GMT
My husband's response was "bad teacher". The guy should have been able to assess her ability to handle such a gun and refused to let her. I'm sorry, I just feel like this is such a cop out response. And it plays a large role in why we have so many gun deaths in this country. This guy was ex (maybe current) military, trained in weapon use, trained as a trainer, and a father. If he isn't a "good" teacher then there is no such thing. And we need to start having some real dialogue about this problem. And until the "gun rights" side starts to take some ownership and offer up real conversation we aren't going to get anywhere. It doesn't take a mental giant to know you shouldn't put an Uzi in the hands of a little girl. If you look at the video the instructor has his hand on her back, and is steadying the weapon with the other hand. He knew that gun had serious recoil. The fact that he's telling her how to stand and hold the weapon suggests that this is her first time with an Uzi. I was talking to some active duty soldiers tonight, one of whom is a military weapons instructor with the IDF, and they were just aghast that anyone, especially a trained weapons instructor, would even think of doing such a thing. They did not believe he was a soldier, or qualified instructor, because, they claim, once you have had that kind of training and experience, nothing would allow you to give a child an Uzi. I still can't wrap my head around that either.....but y'know, it won't make a damn bit of difference to the gun debate, we'll just keep on buying guns, killing children, having child kill people, it's a sickness that anyone would even support the ownership of an Uzi. It's a weapon that was designed to kill people, why anyone needs one is beyond me.
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