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Post by *KAS* on Oct 30, 2017 20:34:53 GMT
So I am the only one who didn't realize he was gay? He has never come out one way or the other. For that I have always respected him. He needs to have some part of his life kept private. Everyone suspected he was although he has never formally said it until now. I'm not surprised after all these years. I applaud him for saying what he did. If he did it then he is at least owning up to it and dealing with what he has done. This doesn't take away any of the respect I have for him. Holy hell. Seriously?! What if it was your 14 year old daughter he was laying on top of when he was 35? Would that be ok when she came out with the story 30 years later and he said 'maybe it happened, I don't remember. If it did, and she's bothered by it, I'm sorry. But I'm now going to come out as a straight man and live authentically!' You'd be cool with that?
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Post by sleepingbooty on Oct 30, 2017 20:37:36 GMT
Richard Lawson telling it like it is:
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,887
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Oct 30, 2017 20:57:46 GMT
I have heard the Spacey gay rumors for years and figured he had his reasons for not publicly coming out. But throwing yourself on a 14 year old is not the "normal" way a gay man would behave. I'm sure the floodgates have been opened and we will now hear more stories about him.
I really liked Keven Spacey and I'm surprised to hear that he would behave this way.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Oct 30, 2017 21:12:01 GMT
“understandable, if not in any way acceptable “. Thanks for ignoring the rest of the sentence.
I get what you’re saying, I do. And frankly, a big part of me was loathe to write my post yesterday, as I detest sexual advances if any kind on children. Maybe the word “ understandable “ is the problem, it suggests I excuse the behavior. I apologize. But I still can easily see a man in his 20’s in that context, and clearly under the influence, on coming into his bedroom and finding this boy On His Bed, thinking he had a chance.
Stereotyping gay men in the 80’s? I have read extensively about gay life starting in the 70’s, including numerous memoirs. Simply out of a desire to understand. Times were different then. Many were in the closet, and the ways in which they found each other had to be more secretive. And story after story was of young, often teens, learning about this life from more experienced men. And in all of the memoirs I read, the young men in question considered the relationship one of love.
Times are different now. Young men come out in high school or earlier. They often find first love amongst their peers. Gay individuals openly pursue relationships and live together or marry. I agree the stereotype of all gays as deviants and molesters was harmful, and a big part of why so many stayed in the closet.
I’m really not wishing to stand up for KS here. I don’t even care for him as an actor. I guess I felt some context was due concerning this incidence.
But, I don’t disagree with anything you said.
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Post by belgravia on Oct 30, 2017 21:14:39 GMT
I just read that Neflix has cancelled House of Cards.
ETA apparently season 6 will be the final season.
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Post by myboysnme on Oct 30, 2017 23:44:17 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something.
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Post by scrapqueen01 on Oct 30, 2017 23:51:37 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something. If they do nothing then it would look like that the powers that be over the show were ok with this news or what happened.
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Post by mrgiedrnkr on Oct 31, 2017 0:06:54 GMT
I am struggling with this to define assault. I am not defending it or not saying it is not disgusting. However, if we take the age out of it, is it truly an assault? If I think of 2 consenting adults (which I know this isn't the case in this situation), I would call it an unwanted advance rather than assault.
Stacy
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Post by gar on Oct 31, 2017 0:10:21 GMT
I am struggling with this to define assault. I am not defending it or not saying it is not disgusting. However, if we take the age out of it, is it truly an assault? If I think of 2 consenting adults (which I know this isn't the case in this situation), I would call it an unwanted advance rather than assault. Stacy I don't understand your conflict - one of them was a child. If they had been 2 consenting adults it probably wouldn't be being discussed.
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Post by alexa11 on Oct 31, 2017 0:17:08 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something. THIS- a million times
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Oct 31, 2017 0:34:30 GMT
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I am not.
Not about being gay -- I always thought he was gay or bisexual.
But the advance on a 14 year old, while drunk and then excusing it through blaming alcohol? Also while using coming out as a deflection and thereby (once again) conflating gay with pedophliia? That does not surprise me at all.
He has always given me a creepy malicious vibe to the point where for decades, I have refused to watch anything with him in it. He always made my creepometer ding.
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Post by mrgiedrnkr on Oct 31, 2017 0:37:37 GMT
I am struggling with this to define assault. I am not defending it or not saying it is not disgusting. However, if we take the age out of it, is it truly an assault? If I think of 2 consenting adults (which I know this isn't the case in this situation), I would call it an unwanted advance rather than assault. Stacy I don't understand your conflict - one of them was a child. If they had been 2 consenting adults it probably wouldn't be being discussed. Thanks Gar. With all the media attention lately, I think words are getting thrown around a lot and are losing their meaning. I don’t think I used my words properly by saying consenting because if he was an adult and not consenting, I still would say it was an unwanted advance rather than assault. I think we would still be having the conversation because it is Kevin Spacey rather than John smith.
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Post by busy on Oct 31, 2017 0:39:21 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something. The Baltimore Sun is reporting the decision was made over the summer but hadn’t been announced yet. Looks like they may be a little opportunistic in announcing it now - making it seem like they’re taking the moral high ground when they actually aren’t.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Oct 31, 2017 0:40:12 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something. My son said the decision to end after the next season was made before this came out about Spacey. The show wasn't what it used to be.
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Post by busy on Oct 31, 2017 0:41:01 GMT
I am struggling with this to define assault. I am not defending it or not saying it is not disgusting. However, if we take the age out of it, is it truly an assault? If I think of 2 consenting adults (which I know this isn't the case in this situation), I would call it an unwanted advance rather than assault. Stacy But they weren’t two consenting adults. They were one adult and one 14 year old child who neither wanted to consent nor would be legally capable of consenting. So that make it an entirely different ball of wax.
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Post by mrgiedrnkr on Oct 31, 2017 0:42:45 GMT
I am struggling with this to define assault. I am not defending it or not saying it is not disgusting. However, if we take the age out of it, is it truly an assault? If I think of 2 consenting adults (which I know this isn't the case in this situation), I would call it an unwanted advance rather than assault. Stacy But they weren’t two consenting adults. They were one adult and one 14 year old child who neither wanted to consent nor would be legally capable of consenting. So that make it an entirely different ball of wax. I realize that. I should have done a spin-off because it isn’t really the same topic. Just thinking out loud.
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Post by Clair on Oct 31, 2017 2:12:55 GMT
But they weren’t two consenting adults. They were one adult and one 14 year old child who neither wanted to consent nor would be legally capable of consenting. So that make it an entirely different ball of wax. I realize that. I should have done a spin-off because it isn’t really the same topic. Just thinking out loud. If it is not assault, what would you call it if your son was the 14 year old. He was on top of the 14 year old boy. Not everything is assault but this is.
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Post by mrgiedrnkr on Oct 31, 2017 2:19:04 GMT
I realize that. I should have done a spin-off because it isn’t really the same topic. Just thinking out loud. If it is not assault, what would you call it if your son was the 14 year old. He was on top of the 14 year old boy. Not everything is assault but this is. I was asking if it was assault if the victim was of age. Is that still considered assault if he was 20 or is it considered an unwanted advance? Stacy
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Post by Belia on Oct 31, 2017 2:21:15 GMT
You know, Kevin Spacey can go fuck himself and the horse he rode in on.
A real easy way for him to avoid having his precious TV show cancelled and being "forced" to make his precious private life public would be to NOT ATTEMPT TO MOLEST YOUNG TEENAGE BOYS.
I don't care whether Anthony Rapp should have been at the party, or should have been left alone, or should have been a child actor, or looked 14, or looked 40, or any of it. NONE OF IT MATTERS. Kevin Spacey, the adult in the room, the adults who KNEW THIS YOUNG MAN, had the responsibility to KEEP HIS FRICKING HANDS TO HIMSELF. Period.
I've been drunk many times. I have never been remotely tempted to make a sexual advance against a child.
God. Enough with the victim blaming already.
I believe Anthony Rapp.
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Post by Belia on Oct 31, 2017 2:24:15 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something. Really? Why not direct your anger at Kevin Spacey. After all, if Kevin freaking Spacey had kept his hands to himself and not made sexual advances toward a young teenager who was half his age, your precious TV show could still air. Kevin Spacey is the one who made all the choices in this situation. Blame him.
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Post by Skellinton on Oct 31, 2017 3:10:48 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something. Really? Why not direct your anger at Kevin Spacey. After all, if Kevin freaking Spacey had kept his hands to himself and not made sexual advances toward a young teenager who was half his age, your precious TV show could still air. Kevin Spacey is the one who made all the choices in this situation. Blame him. IF KS did what this man claims then you are exactly right. Fact is, we simply don't know if he actually did what this man has accused him of. I honestly can't believe it is the right thing to do to try and convict KS of pedophilia and assault based on a claim by one person.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Oct 31, 2017 5:14:00 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something. The Baltimore Sun is reporting the decision was made over the summer but hadn’t been announced yet. Looks like they may be a little opportunistic in announcing it now - making it seem like they’re taking the moral high ground when they actually aren’t. As someone who has worked in PR and whose current occupation demands a nose for it, I don't see it as Netflix taking the moral high ground but rather detaching themselves from a major publicly problematic situation before the mountain of "What are you going to do about this?" grows too big. It's more of a case of "You guys, we're no longer in cahoots with this actor anyway." It's a case of announcing that this is soon no longer their circus, not their monkeys. Any PR person would have told them (especially considering their audience is mainly up of older Gen Z, millenials and younger Gen X who are far less forgiving/external excuse explicative than their older peers) to drop the news and be done with the potential PR mess brewing. Not opportunistic as much as public image conflict avoidance. Netflix probably didn't want to announce this was the final season before the season was close to over so they wouldn't have to deal with pre-emptive backlash (and even more steeply dropping viewing numbers).
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Post by busy on Oct 31, 2017 5:17:19 GMT
The Baltimore Sun is reporting the decision was made over the summer but hadn’t been announced yet. Looks like they may be a little opportunistic in announcing it now - making it seem like they’re taking the moral high ground when they actually aren’t. As someone who has worked in PR and whose current occupation demands a nose for it, I don't see it as Netflix taking the moral high ground but rather detaching themselves from a major publicly problematic situation before the mountain of "What are you going to do about this?" grows too big. It's more of a case of "You guys, we're no longer in cahoots with this actor anyway." It's a case of announcing that this is soon no longer their circus, not their monkeys. Any PR person would have told them (especially considering their audience is mainly up of older Gen Z, millenials and younger Gen X who are far less forgiving/external-excuse-explicative than their older peers) to drop the news and be done with the potential PR mess brewing. Not opportunistic as much as public image conflict avoidance. Oh, I get it. I'm just being cynical.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Oct 31, 2017 5:20:24 GMT
Oh, I get it. I'm just being cynical. Ain't that the truth in today's world...
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Post by hennybutton on Oct 31, 2017 6:07:06 GMT
If it is not assault, what would you call it if your son was the 14 year old. He was on top of the 14 year old boy. Not everything is assault but this is. I was asking if it was assault if the victim was of age. Is that still considered assault if he was 20 or is it considered an unwanted advance? Stacy Definitely assault. Take all the elements of the story. Replace the 14 year old boy with a 25 year old woman. Nobody would disagree with it being attempted rape. Spacey's actions wer far beyond unwanted advances.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 31, 2017 10:45:26 GMT
Really? Why not direct your anger at Kevin Spacey. After all, if Kevin freaking Spacey had kept his hands to himself and not made sexual advances toward a young teenager who was half his age, your precious TV show could still air. Kevin Spacey is the one who made all the choices in this situation. Blame him. IF KS did what this man claims then you are exactly right. Fact is, we simply don't know if he actually did what this man has accused him of. I honestly can't believe it is the right thing to do to try and convict KS of pedophilia and assault based on a claim by one person. Well, since KS isn't denying it and released a statement that sounds as if even HE believes it's within the realm of possibility, then why shouldn't we?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 31, 2017 11:46:03 GMT
Now he is not getting some Emmy Life Award (not sure if that's the right title)
This entire story has me wondering today --
This just broke in the last 48-72 hours, and he stated that he did not remember the (accused) event happening, and presumably there is no proof of it either other than the words of the accuser, 30 some years later...yet KS has lost his tv series, been stripped of an award and is being made out to be a perverted sexual deviant in social media.
It's scary as to how powerful social media can be.
Just think for a second--- What if it wasn't true?
What if KS truly didn't remember that happening and his apology sincere as to not remembering yet he genuinely apologized?
What if the accuser made it up?
It seems to me that in some sort of weird race to crucify him that social media has now become the judge and jury!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 31, 2017 11:52:54 GMT
I am upset that a fabulous show that I really love has decided to end the show next season because of this. Come on. Put everyone out of work on an award winning show? Did everyone say they don't want to work with Kevin Spacey anymore? If so, then kill his character off or something. Really? Why not direct your anger at Kevin Spacey. After all, if Kevin freaking Spacey had kept his hands to himself and not made sexual advances toward a young teenager who was half his age, your precious TV show could still air. Kevin Spacey is the one who made all the choices in this situation. Blame him. What if the accuser is lying? Or had not recalled it correctly? What was a 14 year old doing at a party like he describes--presumably alone and in KS's bedroom? How do you/we know that KS is the one who made all the decisions in the situation? KS stated that he cannot remember the event happening (thus his comment in his apology to being drunk/could not remember)? Why is it impossible to believe KS, given that only 48 hrs has gone by since this story broke? Not victim blaming here either, just reserving judgment until more facts are available. If KS turns out to be some preying on children deviant--then lock him up!
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Oct 31, 2017 12:07:41 GMT
Really? Why not direct your anger at Kevin Spacey. After all, if Kevin freaking Spacey had kept his hands to himself and not made sexual advances toward a young teenager who was half his age, your precious TV show could still air. Kevin Spacey is the one who made all the choices in this situation. Blame him. What if the accuser is lying? Or had not recalled it correctly? What was a 14 year old doing at a party like he describes--presumably alone and in KS's bedroom? How do you/we know that KS is the one who made all the decisions in the situation? KS stated that he cannot remember the event happening (thus his comment in his apology to being drunk/could not remember)? Why is it impossible to believe KS, given that only 48 hrs has gone by since this story broke? Not victim blaming here either, just reserving judgment until more facts are available. If KS turns out to be some preying on children deviant--then lock him up! Oh, I believe him. He has not denied it and even gave an excuse as to why it might have happened (drunken behavior). Even HE seems to believe it could have happened. Why shouldn't I? Presumably he knows himself better than I.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 31, 2017 12:36:16 GMT
What if the accuser is lying? Or had not recalled it correctly? What was a 14 year old doing at a party like he describes--presumably alone and in KS's bedroom? How do you/we know that KS is the one who made all the decisions in the situation? KS stated that he cannot remember the event happening (thus his comment in his apology to being drunk/could not remember)? Why is it impossible to believe KS, given that only 48 hrs has gone by since this story broke? Not victim blaming here either, just reserving judgment until more facts are available. If KS turns out to be some preying on children deviant--then lock him up! Oh, I believe him. He has not denied it and even gave an excuse as to why it might have happened (drunken behavior). Even HE seems to believe it could have happened. Why shouldn't I? Presumably he knows himself better than I. He stated that he did not remember that happening. Some people may choose not to feed into the social media trial/jury feeding frenzy. He then stated that IF it did, he may have been that he was drunk (thus not remembering). I did not read his statement as "oh I was probably drunk and just started sexually assaulting 14 year olds at my party, my bad". KS-- "I'm beyond horrified to hear his story. I honestly do not recall the encounter, it would have been over 30 years ago. But if I did behave then as he describes I owe him the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior, and I am sorry for the feelings he describes having carried with him all these years."
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