|
Post by sleepingbooty on Oct 31, 2017 19:05:00 GMT
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 31, 2017 19:53:57 GMT
Oh FFS, Get over yourself already. Because we are talking about another aspect of what transpired you refer to us as "cray-cray" 🙄. You know you really suck at PR and I wouldn't want my company have you represent them, given your "expertise" here. You really are not a great PR person if you have to continue to deflect what myself and dottyscrapper were discussing about the social media aspect. We didn't make assumptions here, YOU did. What we both have been saying ALL ALONG is that social media has become judge and jury, and even this last post and article of yours proves that. You ASSUMED that we are defending him, and you're wrong. We were speaking about the social media.
|
|
|
Post by utpea on Oct 31, 2017 19:54:31 GMT
|
|
oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,011
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
|
Post by oh yvonne on Oct 31, 2017 20:17:39 GMT
Jeez you guys, you ALL make really good points, relax, damn! None of you all know anything for sure. This is a great discussion, other than the fighting. I've "liked" half the posts on here, for both sides. Every time I read something I nod to myself and think 'yeah, good point', and then I read the rebuttal and think 'well yeah, there's that too". Good conversation always gets ruined around here because hysterical ninniness gets in the way.
|
|
|
Post by crimsoncat05 on Oct 31, 2017 20:23:54 GMT
perhaps Kevin Spacey wouldn't have 'come out' publicly like that (in that manner, I mean) if the guy hadn't publicly accused him. The fact that people are on him BOTH about the alleged sexual assault, AND on him for HOW/WHEN he said he identifies as gay just shows me that social media-- which has fueled our need for INSTANT "facts" (and yes, I put facts in quotes for a reason) when none of this is an actual fact, but just 'he said / he said' allegations-- is a bad thing in situations like this.
ETA: to clarify, I'm not commenting on anyone's sexuality, OR whether any of it is true / false. Nor am I defending Kevin Spacey. I am only commenting on the public's seeming need to pass instant judgement on things.
|
|
oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,011
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
|
Post by oh yvonne on Oct 31, 2017 20:44:25 GMT
I don't think there was *anything* KS could say that would appease anyone.
Deny, apologize, admit, come out. I mean, really, what could he have said? Once accused you pretty much are on your own.
He gives me the 'smarmy' 'creepy' vibe too but then I realize I only know him because of the characters he's played;
the skeevy husband in American Beauty the psycho head chopping murder in Seven, the creeper reporter in LA Confidential wormy Verbal on Usual Suspects
I have no point in this post, really. Just thinking out loud.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 11, 2024 0:52:36 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 22:43:36 GMT
This isn't directly about Kevin Spacey. The Old Vic and the UK Theatre Industry gave out a statement on October 23rd following on from the allegations against Weinstein. ( The Met Police are also investigating allegations against Weinstein here). They issued another today reiterating what was said in the first statement following the allegation about Spacey and they've added a link basically because he was directly involved with the theatre for a number of years. the first statement given out on October 23rd :- linkand today's statement :- link
|
|
craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
|
Post by craftykitten on Oct 31, 2017 22:59:54 GMT
I don't think there was *anything* KS could say that would appease anyone. Deny, apologize, admit, come out. I mean, really, what could he have said? Once accused you pretty much are on your own. He gives me the 'smarmy' 'creepy' vibe too but then I realize I only know him because of the characters he's played; the skeevy husband in American Beauty the psycho head chopping murder in Seven, the creeper reporter in LA Confidential wormy Verbal on Usual Suspects I have no point in this post, really. Just thinking out loud. Did you ever watch Family Guy? I don't think you were alone in feeling that vibe www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4dHf6jnwaU
|
|
|
Post by hopemax on Oct 31, 2017 23:28:37 GMT
perhaps Kevin Spacey wouldn't have 'come out' publicly like that (in that manner, I mean) if the guy hadn't publicly accused him. The fact that people are on him BOTH about the alleged sexual assault, AND on him for HOW/WHEN he said he identifies as gay just shows me that social media-- which has fueled our need for INSTANT "facts" (and yes, I put facts in quotes for a reason) when none of this is an actual fact, but just 'he said / he said' allegations-- is a bad thing in situations like this. ETA: to clarify, I'm not commenting on anyone's sexuality, OR whether any of it is true / false. Nor am I defending Kevin Spacey. I am only commenting on the public's seeming need to pass instant judgement on things. Perhaps this USA Article would be of interest to you. It's by a former editor of two LGBT friendly magazines who is now struggling with balancing "outing" someone with the responsibility the media holds when they have information about sexual misconduct and other immoral behaviors. In 2001, The Advocate published Rapp's story but left out Spacey's name. This also might explain, why people are not questioning Rapp and jumping on Spacey. Although this may be new to us, this specific story has been out there for at least 16 years, because while the Advocate didn't name names, a subset would have known like the Weinstein stories apparently existed for years. www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2017/10/31/rapp-told-me-kevin-spacey-90-s-heres-what-happened-and-what-didnt-bruce-steele-column/814863001/
|
|
|
Post by hennybutton on Oct 31, 2017 23:49:36 GMT
perhaps Kevin Spacey wouldn't have 'come out' publicly like that (in that manner, I mean) if the guy hadn't publicly accused him. The fact that people are on him BOTH about the alleged sexual assault, AND on him for HOW/WHEN he said he identifies as gay just shows me that social media-- which has fueled our need for INSTANT "facts" (and yes, I put facts in quotes for a reason) when none of this is an actual fact, but just 'he said / he said' allegations-- is a bad thing in situations like this. ETA: to clarify, I'm not commenting on anyone's sexuality, OR whether any of it is true / false. Nor am I defending Kevin Spacey. I am only commenting on the public's seeming need to pass instant judgement on things. Perhaps this USA Article would be of interest to you. It's by a former editor of two LGBT friendly magazines who is now struggling with balancing "outing" someone with the responsibility the media holds when they have information about sexual misconduct and other immoral behaviors. In 2001, The Advocate published Rapp's story but left out Spacey's name. This also might explain, why people are not questioning Rapp and jumping on Spacey. Although this may be new to us, this specific story has been out there for at least 16 years, because while the Advocate didn't name names, a subset would have known like the Weinstein stories apparently existed for years. www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2017/10/31/rapp-told-me-kevin-spacey-90-s-heres-what-happened-and-what-didnt-bruce-steele-column/814863001/There shouldn't even be a question. It shouldn't matter if the victim is a man, woman, boy or girl. It shouldn't matter if the perpetrator is a man or woman. When one person sexually assaults another or misues their position of power, they should be called out on it. It's not about outing someone for being gay, it's about outing a person for misconduct. I think this just might shine a light on the really dirty secret of men and boys being abused. We all know these things happening to women, but men who come forward face their own problems. If anything, they are less likely to be taken seriously.
|
|
|
Post by 16joy on Nov 1, 2017 0:31:50 GMT
I still believe minor children shouldn't have to show proof if they mention it years later. What proof is there if only 2 people are in the room with no recording device of any sort. That favors a pedophile. The Catholic Church abuse scandal came about because one man voiced what happened to him as a child. Then another, then another. Will other minors come forward, Was this a one time thing, or was AR telling the truth? We may/may not know. Parents can make their decisions if they want to send their child to KS's house for a party.
I don't recall the HW women being asked to provide proof. A few others came forward after RG and HW starts to admit he has a problem.
Date rape can be one person's word against another. Should no one ever come forward?
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Nov 1, 2017 1:33:27 GMT
I still believe minor children shouldn't have to show proof if they mention it years later. What proof is there if only 2 people are in the room with no recording device of any sort. That favors a pedophile. The Catholic Church abuse scandal came about because one man voiced what happened to him as a child. Then another, then another. Will other minors come forward, Was this a one time thing, or was AR telling the truth? We may/may not know. Parents can make their decisions if they want to send their child to KS's house for a party. I don't recall the HW women being asked to provide proof. A few others came forward after RG and HW starts to admit he has a problem. Date rape can be one person's word against another. Should no one ever come forward? No one is asking for proof that I can see. Some of just think that it is terrible to try and convict a man based on one person's allegations via the media. Of course people should come forward. But we should not necessarily believe everything reported as gospel fact. Look at the story of the women supposedly stranded at sea, the woman who was meeting her boyfriend and made up her abduction, balloon boy, etc, etc.
|
|
|
Post by 16joy on Nov 1, 2017 2:00:22 GMT
Someone in this thread said you needed proof before going on social media. I'm not trying to convict, but I'm not sending a minor son to his or any other actor/actress' house party. That's my parenting decision based on my current life experience. If I had a child in the entertainment world my decision may/may not be the same. I don't know either party and have no opinion on either one.
I realize people openly lie about things. I do think anyone who makes false accusations makes it harder for the next victim experiencing the crime. I feel strongly about prosecuting verifiable false reports.
I'm ready to see how the ladies' boat trip turns out. I thought the coast guard would have discovered them if they were sending the distress signal. What's the motivation? I need to see if there's been another development.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 1, 2017 2:45:50 GMT
Someone in this thread said you needed proof before going on social media. I'm not trying to convict, but I'm not sending a minor son to his or any other actor/actress' house party. That's my parenting decision based on my current life experience. If I had a child in the entertainment world my decision may/may not be the same. I don't know either party and have no opinion on either one. I realize people openly lie about things. I do think anyone who makes false accusations makes it harder for the next victim experiencing the crime. I feel strongly about prosecuting verifiable false reports. I'm ready to see how the ladies' boat trip turns out. I thought the coast guard would have discovered them if they were sending the distress signal. What's the motivation? I need to see if there's been another development. {sigh} I never said one needed proof Before going on social media. I said social media has become the judge and jury, without the benefit of proof or any/all facts, and instances like this which may or may not be true, and in just shy of 2 days, he's been "convicted". Never ever once did I state that anyone should not come forward.
|
|
|
Post by busy on Nov 1, 2017 16:07:08 GMT
|
|
likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
|
Post by likescarrots on Nov 1, 2017 16:19:40 GMT
If it is not assault, what would you call it if your son was the 14 year old. He was on top of the 14 year old boy. Not everything is assault but this is. I was asking if it was assault if the victim was of age. Is that still considered assault if he was 20 or is it considered an unwanted advance? Stacy unwanted physical contact is assault, regardless of age. How is this even a question.
|
|
|
Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 1, 2017 16:23:16 GMT
Not everything is assault but this is. (sorry, the quote feature didn't work correctly, there...) who decides the distinction between what's considered assault and what doesn't rise to the level of assault seemed to be the question. Is it age? Is it the circumstances?
|
|
oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,011
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
|
Post by oh yvonne on Nov 1, 2017 16:57:21 GMT
I don't think there was *anything* KS could say that would appease anyone. Deny, apologize, admit, come out. I mean, really, what could he have said? Once accused you pretty much are on your own. He gives me the 'smarmy' 'creepy' vibe too but then I realize I only know him because of the characters he's played; the skeevy husband in American Beauty the psycho head chopping murder in Seven, the creeper reporter in LA Confidential wormy Verbal on Usual Suspects I have no point in this post, really. Just thinking out loud. Did you ever watch Family Guy? I don't think you were alone in feeling that vibe www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4dHf6jnwaUomg, no I never watch that show, that's crazy! I bet back then it was funny, because of KS's movie history. Now it's just startling, wow.
|
|
|
Post by femalebusiness on Nov 1, 2017 17:06:04 GMT
Jeez you guys, you ALL make really good points, relax, damn! None of you all know anything for sure. This is a great discussion, other than the fighting. I've "liked" half the posts on here, for both sides. Every time I read something I nod to myself and think 'yeah, good point', and then I read the rebuttal and think 'well yeah, there's that too". Good conversation always gets ruined around here because hysterical ninniness gets in the way. I wish I could like this X100!
|
|
|
Post by busy on Nov 1, 2017 17:22:49 GMT
I was asking if it was assault if the victim was of age. Is that still considered assault if he was 20 or is it considered an unwanted advance? Stacy unwanted physical contact is assault, regardless of age. How is this even a question. Exactly. mrgiedrnkr If a man picked you up, put you down on a bed and laid on top of you, would you call that just an “unwanted advance”?I’m guessing no. You’d feel it was much more. I’ve been hit on plenty, and declined plenty. None of those “unwanted advances” were anything like that.
|
|
|
Post by OntarioScrapper on Nov 1, 2017 18:15:35 GMT
Laying on top of someone is not what I would call "unwanted advances". Who the hell does that?
|
|
scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,887
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
|
Post by scrappinmama on Nov 1, 2017 18:28:13 GMT
Yikes! It sounds like this was the way he hit on men. I'm sure there are dozens of people out there who he did this to. His career is over.
|
|
likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
|
Post by likescarrots on Nov 2, 2017 0:25:51 GMT
Not everything is assault but this is. (sorry, the quote feature didn't work correctly, there...) who decides the distinction between what's considered assault and what doesn't rise to the level of assault seemed to be the question. Is it age? Is it the circumstances? I'm not really sure what you're saying since the quote got messed up - i'm not the one that said what it looks like I said here. I've already answered the question though, physical contact that is unwanted is assault, the person who is receiving the physical contact gets to decide that. It has nothing to do with age or circumstances.
|
|
|
Post by busy on Nov 2, 2017 3:40:36 GMT
I’m guessing more allegations are coming soon... just saw this from an NYT theater reporter.
|
|
|
Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 2, 2017 3:54:45 GMT
(sorry, the quote feature didn't work correctly, there...) who decides the distinction between what's considered assault and what doesn't rise to the level of assault seemed to be the question. Is it age? Is it the circumstances? I'm not really sure what you're saying since the quote got messed up - i'm not the one that said what it looks like I said here. I've already answered the question though, physical contact that is unwanted is assault, the person who is receiving the physical contact gets to decide that. It has nothing to do with age or circumstances. I know, you didn't say that... that's what I meant when I said the quote feature didn't work correctly. The person who asked the question about what age the person was-- would it have made a difference whether the person was over the age of consent, whether it was called "assault" or not. I was trying to expand on that, to clarify the question 'what constitutes assault' in a legal sense.
|
|
|
Post by gar on Nov 2, 2017 7:59:59 GMT
I’m guessing more allegations are coming soon... just saw this from an NYT theater reporter. Seeking evaluation and treatment?? Pathetic squirming.
|
|
flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
|
Post by flute4peace on Nov 3, 2017 19:33:17 GMT
Edited/deleted because what I said has already been discussed/explained.
|
|
zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
|
Post by zella on Nov 6, 2017 2:25:48 GMT
I hope that everyone who defended KS in this thread has taken the time to read all of the stories that are coming out. I don't know how anyone could defend him at this point.
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Nov 6, 2017 3:23:58 GMT
I hope that everyone who defended KS in this thread has taken the time to read all of the stories that are coming out. I don't know how anyone could defend him at this point. I don't think anyone here was defending him. I think some of us were not willing to try and convict a man based on one person's story. BIG DIFFERENCE.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 6, 2017 4:08:20 GMT
I hope that everyone who defended KS in this thread has taken the time to read all of the stories that are coming out. I don't know how anyone could defend him at this point. I for one was not defending him. I was crystal clear as to what I was stating, while others were inserting what they thought into what I was saying --they did not read correctly. I do t think anyone was defending him either. It would behoove you and others to stop assuming/inserting what you think you read, and instead actually read what someone was actually writing.
|
|