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Post by gar on Nov 1, 2017 13:18:35 GMT
Then what was your point about reminding everyone?
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 17:01:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 13:19:08 GMT
There sure is, on the second page with about 18 responses. Oh for Christ's sake lady. All you appear to be is a new member who's sole purpose is to be a shit stirrer on the political threads. I have no time for your bullshit. Carry on being you and I'll carry on ignoring your bullshit. And you will continue to ignore and mock the importance of vetting I'm sure.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
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Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Nov 1, 2017 13:22:40 GMT
I don't see anyone arguing against thorough vetting. On the other hand, given this administration couldn't even do a good job of vetting their own staff, I'm not sure they are up to the task?
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Nov 1, 2017 13:41:44 GMT
There sure is, on the second page with about 18 responses. Oh for Christ's sake lady. All you appear to be is a new member who's sole purpose is to be a shit stirrer on the political threads. I have no time for your bullshit. Carry on being you and I'll carry on ignoring your bullshit. ![:yeahthat:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/yrGoHMAelQz8f2Qt0sjb.jpg) I love a lively discussion, but not with a troll. SaveSave
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 17:01:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 13:47:35 GMT
If the democrats and liberals in this country want to push for allowing more refugees and immigrants while mocking, downplaying, ignoring the importance of vetting and continuing to ignore the huge number of people here illegally already, they should at least be reminded of the victims. It's no surprise there's been little to no discussion about yesterday's attack. I thought now is not the time to talk about it? Just like guns? Wait, but that was a white guy with a gun. Sorry, I forgot. This, right here, is my point. See how quickly someone comes out to shift focus to guns and the white man? Plenty of talk about that around here, but let's not talk about this terrorist, where's he's from, and how he got here. And definitely no mention of the fact he used a truck and had a knife but had NO gun.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,644
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Nov 1, 2017 14:05:54 GMT
I thought now is not the time to talk about it? Just like guns? Wait, but that was a white guy with a gun. Sorry, I forgot. This, right here, is my point. See how quickly someone comes out to shift focus to guns and the white man? Plenty of talk about that around here, but let's not talk about this terrorist, where's he's from, and how he got here. And definitely no mention of the fact he used a truck and had a knife but had NO gun. I'm not trying to deflect - but pointing out how different the responses are based on the event and who's involved. I'm more than happy to have a discussion about what happened in NYC, but am not interested in engaging if it's purely going to be a discussion about how bad Muslims are and how we should ban all Muslims and foreigners. And I think the fact that he had no gun is significant. It's still horrible how many people he killed and injured, but I keep thinking about how it could've been much worse if he had a semi-automatic weapon with a bump stock and was able to kill a lot more in a short amount of time. ETA: I was also pointing out the hypocrisy of all the people who said "now is not the time to talk about guns" after the shooting in Las Vegas and are now chomping at the bit to talk about terrorism. And we see plenty of hypocrisy depending on who commits these acts, as well as fear mongering that is not proportional to facts. 33K people die a year from guns (and yes, I know that a significant portion is suicide) compared to how many people die from terrorism? I don't mean to minimize threats from terrorism and certainly support efforts to combat it, but if we're purely worried about people dying - then we have a lot more issues we could be outraged about.
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Post by annabella on Nov 1, 2017 14:20:43 GMT
Currently, Manafort and Gates' house arrest conditions mean they can only leave their homes to meet with lawyers or appear in court, or for medical and religious reasons, and they must check in with authorities daily. I watched one of those crime shows where a woman tried to pay an undercover cop to kill her boyfriend. When she was arrested she was put on house arrest and the show checked in on her 7 years later. And guess what, she was pregnant. Being on house arrest with limited outings apparently isn't that bad. I feel like Manafort was doing Trump's dirty work for him and is just the fall guy. The only way to get multiple passports in his name is to fraudulently apply multiple times. If he is signing the forms saying he hasn't been issued a passport in the last 15 (IIRC) years and has the supporting documentation, I don't think the passport office would be triggered to give the application a second look. How exactly is he doing that? His name isn't John Smith, they must be able to see in the system his other passports under his name with a picture of the same man on each.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,644
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Nov 1, 2017 14:24:50 GMT
Currently, Manafort and Gates' house arrest conditions mean they can only leave their homes to meet with lawyers or appear in court, or for medical and religious reasons, and they must check in with authorities daily. I watched one of those crime shows where a woman tried to pay an undercover cop to kill her boyfriend. When she was arrested she was put on house arrest and the show checked in on her 7 years later. And guess what, she was pregnant. Being on house arrest with limited outings apparently isn't that bad. I feel like Manafort was doing Trump's dirty work for him and is just the fall guy. The only way to get multiple passports in his name is to fraudulently apply multiple times. If he is signing the forms saying he hasn't been issued a passport in the last 15 (IIRC) years and has the supporting documentation, I don't think the passport office would be triggered to give the application a second look. How exactly is he doing that? His name isn't John Smith, they must be able to see in the system his other passports under his name with a picture of the same man on each. I'm assuming he was using fake names/stolen SSN or something similar.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,985
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Nov 1, 2017 14:25:51 GMT
I'll wait for your lengthy explanation of how we can extreme vet white guys with guns. Or white guys with tiki torches. Or white guys with confederate flag decals on their pick up trucks.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 1, 2017 14:26:33 GMT
Trump blames Schumer, Democrats for immigration policies he says led to terror attack CNN Digital Expansion 2017 By Dan Merica and Tal Kopan, CNN Updated 10:14 AM ET, Wed November 1, 2017 But while there is consensus around needing to reform the process, limited support exists even within the GOP for Cotton and Perdue's bill. Schumer was a key shaper of the 1990 legislation that created the program, but also played a lead part in the 2013 Gang of Eight bill that that passed the Senate on a bipartisan basis and included removing the diversity lottery program. The bill would have moved those visas elsewhere in the system and introduced a merit system that took into account multiple factors like family and work skills.Sen. Jeff Flake, an Arizona Republican who has been an ardent critic of Trump, noted in a tweet Wednesday that the Gang of Eight bill, had it been signed into law, would have done away with the diversity visa program."" Excerpt only www.cnn.com/2017/11/01/politics/donald-trump-chuck-schumer-nyc-attack/index.html
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 1, 2017 14:31:51 GMT
Schumer fires back at Trump: ‘I guess it's not too soon to politicize a tragedy’BY REBECCA SAVRANSKY - 11/01/17 08:51 AM EDT Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) on Wednesday fired back at President Trump after he ripped Schumer in the wake of the New York City terror attack. "I guess it's not too soon to politicize a tragedy," Schumer tweeted. President Trump sent out several tweets Wednesday morning following the attack on Tuesday. Trump said the suspect came into the country through the Diversity Visa Lottery Program, which he referred to as a "Chuck Schumer beauty." ****************** "President Bush in a moment of national tragedy understood the meaning of his high office. ...President Trump where is your leadership?" Schumer said. "The contrast between President Bush's actions after 9/11 and President Trump's actions this morning could not be starker." "President Trump, instead of politicizing and dividing America...should be bringing us together and focusing on the real solution: anti-terrorism funding."***************** thehill.com/homenews/senate/358167-schumer-fires-back-at-trump-i-guess-its-not-too-soon-to-politicize-a-tragedy
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,985
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Nov 1, 2017 14:33:38 GMT
Because the fear of brown terrorists is wholly disproportionate as to who is actually responsible for killing most Americans.
I was on that bike path two weeks ago. And I'm still more afraid of being killed by random gun violence than I am of being killed by a terrorist.
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 17:01:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 15:14:14 GMT
I'll wait for your lengthy explanation of how we can extreme vet white guys with guns. Or white guys with tiki torches. Or white guys with confederate flag decals on their pick up trucks. No need to wait, because there won't be a lengthy explanation. We need stricter gun control, white supremacy needs to be shut down. The issue with the left is they don't want to acknowledge there are issues BEYOND the "white man" crimes you bring up. Because YOU are more concerned about death from gun violence and the white man, the concerns about open borders, lax immigration, diversity visas, terrorists and where/how they got here should just be swept under the rug, they're not important. The left will bring up the bad white man and his guns when there's a mass shooting, but nobody will bring up where these terrorists come from, and how and why they're here. It still isn't being discussed here. Not talking about it doesn't make it untrue. It's just not important enough.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,644
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Nov 1, 2017 15:21:05 GMT
I'll wait for your lengthy explanation of how we can extreme vet white guys with guns. Or white guys with tiki torches. Or white guys with confederate flag decals on their pick up trucks. No need to wait, because there won't be a lengthy explanation. We need stricter gun control, white supremacy needs to be shut down. The issue with the left is they don't want to acknowledge there are issues BEYOND the "white man" crimes you bring up. Because YOU are more concerned about death from gun violence and the white man, the concerns about open borders, lax immigration, diversity visas, terrorists and where/how they got here should just be swept under the rug, they're not important. The left will bring up the bad white man and his guns when there's a mass shooting, but nobody will bring up where these terrorists come from, and how and why they're here. It still isn't being discussed here. Not talking about it doesn't make it untrue. It's just not important enough. "The left" is not sweeping it under the rug. But we also understand context, nuance, and complexity. And it goes deeper than bans and borders. Why do you think people self-radicalize? There isn't much difference between disaffected white men and disaffected Muslim men who commit these acts of violence. And please, look at the facts for what kills Americans (hint, deaths by foreign nationals is nothing compared to guns, alcohol, drugs, accidents, cancer, heart disease, etc).
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
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La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Nov 1, 2017 15:46:55 GMT
There already is a thread started yesterday to discuss the attack in NYC. There sure is, on the second page with about 18 responses. None of them yours.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 1, 2017 15:49:03 GMT
now now, that fact is just an unnecessary detail! ![:rolleyes:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Ui47LhQw2NqWVWNNqtfM.jpg) So. Back to Manafort- if he has more than one passport, and it sounds like it's not exactly easy to do that, shouldn't there be some sort of a forgery charge, or something similar, in there? maybe? (I'm hoping?)
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,985
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Nov 1, 2017 16:13:19 GMT
My understanding is that they only sought charges for which there is a statute of limitations concern. Per MSNBC, the special prosecutor's office said the filing of these charges does not preclude additional charges being filed at a later date. Everything Mueller does seems to be very strategic.
The docket also shows 4 (or 5?) sealed indictments between Papadopoulos' indictment and the ones filed against Gates and Manafort.
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Post by femalebusiness on Nov 1, 2017 16:16:18 GMT
Oh for Christ's sake lady. All you appear to be is a new member who's sole purpose is to be a shit stirrer on the political threads. I have no time for your bullshit. Carry on being you and I'll carry on ignoring your bullshit. ![:yeahthat:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/5yQEX0kR3vPyTtVag94_.jpg) I love a lively discussion, but not with a troll. SaveSaveYeah, the same few keep coming back under new names. Of course if I thought like they do I'd want to hide under a pseudonym too. I wish the shit stirrers would be totally and completely ignored otherwise those who argue with the stupidity are lowering themselves to troll standards.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 1, 2017 16:18:06 GMT
I watched one of those crime shows where a woman tried to pay an undercover cop to kill her boyfriend. When she was arrested she was put on house arrest and the show checked in on her 7 years later. And guess what, she was pregnant. Being on house arrest with limited outings apparently isn't that bad. I feel like Manafort was doing Trump's dirty work for him and is just the fall guy. How exactly is he doing that? His name isn't John Smith, they must be able to see in the system his other passports under his name with a picture of the same man on each. I'm assuming he was using fake names/stolen SSN or something similar. Manafort currently has three US passports, each under a different number. He has submitted 10 passport applications in roughly as many years, prosecutors said. Based on the way the information has been worded, I think he completed the applications in his real name. They specifically say they were under different numbers, but not anything about a different or fake name. They did specifically say he traveled to China with a phone registered to a fake name. The passport application works in part on the honor system. The assumption is that when people sign a form that includes a warning that providing false information is a crime, they are going to provide correct information. Very few people would intentionally want a second or third passport in their name. Who knows, maybe in the circles Manafort travels in (money laundering) it is common place and known that you can get multiple passports. Maybe they have someone in the passport office that will expediate the process for them. annabella , I just don't think the current system is set up to check if another passport has been issued to a specific name. Manafort is unique enough, but the process of checking against every John Smith, Cathy Jones or Jose Alvarez to make sure this specific person hasn't already had a passport issued to them is more onerous than what our current system is set up for I suspect. When the application is received, the process is to check everything is filled out correctly & signed and supporting documents are legitimate.
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 17:01:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 16:19:02 GMT
There sure is, on the second page with about 18 responses. None of them yours. This thread brought up vetting, which is where I responded. Interesting observation that the first page had several Trump threads, and snark about vetting, but no concern about another terrorist attack, and how the number of attacks are increasing. It's not surprising though, as can be seen by the number of responses to me about the white man. Continue to bash Trump all you want while ignoring the fact that attacks are up, and ISIS fighters are going to be looking to go "home." I guess we'll all find out where they end up.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 1, 2017 16:21:21 GMT
Who knows, maybe in the circles Manafort travels in (money laundering) it is common place so the reason for multiple passports, then, would be just so the places you're traveling to, or the amount of travel. won't be so suspicious? as it might be if it was all on one passport? I mean, he had to have a reason for doing it that way.
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 17:01:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 16:23:42 GMT
![:yeahthat:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/5yQEX0kR3vPyTtVag94_.jpg) I love a lively discussion, but not with a troll. SaveSave Yeah, the same few keep coming back under new names. Of course if I thought like they do I'd want to hide under a pseudonym too. I wish the shit stirrers would be totally and completely ignored otherwise those who argue with the stupidity are lowering themselves to troll standards. Bringing up facts is shit stirring. I'll look to you for solace, ole' wise one, the next time, and the next time, and the next time, there's a terrorist attack.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 1, 2017 16:31:24 GMT
You can actually request a second passport and the US will issue you one if you fall into a couple categories. One is if you will be traveling and denied entry to a country based on entry to a previous country. This is not uncommon in a few Middle Eastern countries and I know Israel actually asks you if you want them to stamp your passport as it can be an issue in entering other countries. The other valid reason is if you need a second passport to obtain a visa and you need to travel. Some countries require you to actually send them your passport to obtain the visa. It is entirely feasible that one could document a need for a third depending on where you're traveling and length of time to obtain a visa. He COULD have obtained all 3 legitimately - or they could be false names. I'm just saying there is a procedure in place for second passport, and many of the people I know who travel heavily and also travel to China have two purely for the need to send one for the visa and will need to travel somewhere else in the interim. The only one I know with 3 has 2 US passports and one UK.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 1, 2017 16:31:26 GMT
Who knows, maybe in the circles Manafort travels in (money laundering) it is common place so the reason for multiple passports, then, would be just so the places you're traveling to, or the amount of travel. won't be so suspicious? as it might be if it was all on one passport? I mean, he had to have a reason for doing it that way. Yes, for whatever reason he wanted to hide some of his travel. Traveling under a false name would be much harder for someone in the public eye.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
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La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Nov 1, 2017 16:31:29 GMT
This thread brought up vetting, which is where I responded. Interesting observation that the first page had several Trump threads, and snark about vetting, but no concern about another terrorist attack, and how the number of attacks are increasing. It's not surprising though, as can be seen by the number of responses to me about the white man. Continue to bash Trump all you want while ignoring the fact that attacks are up, and ISIS fighters are going to be looking to go "home." I guess we'll all find out where they end up. And yet I wouldn't read into your numerous posts on those same Trump threads and lack of response on the recent attack as you having no concern.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 1, 2017 16:32:36 GMT
I just don't think the current system is set up to check if another passport has been issued to a specific name. Manafort is unigue enough, but the process of checking against every John Smith, Cathy Jones or Jose Alvarez to make sure this specific person hasn't already had a passport issued to them is more onerous than what our current system is set up for I suspect. When the application is received, the process is to check everything is filled out correctly & signed and supporting documents are legitimate. I don't have a passport so I don't know the exact info needed to get one. Thinking birth certificate to start, photo, marriage certificate for name change for females. Can they not put in a name and birth date for starters? I need 6 points of ID for my DL and have to appear in person and at this time my DL is not going to be good to board a plane in another year. We will all need a 'smart' DL with facial recognition, although NJ has my photo on file and I am also required to provide my SS#. What is the answer? ETA: so each legitimate passport would have different numbers too?
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 1, 2017 16:47:08 GMT
I just don't think the current system is set up to check if another passport has been issued to a specific name. Manafort is unigue enough, but the process of checking against every John Smith, Cathy Jones or Jose Alvarez to make sure this specific person hasn't already had a passport issued to them is more onerous than what our current system is set up for I suspect. When the application is received, the process is to check everything is filled out correctly & signed and supporting documents are legitimate. I don't have a passport so I don't know the exact info needed to get one. Thinking birth certificate to start, photo, marriage certificate for name change for females. Can they not put in a name and birth date for starters? I need 6 points of ID for my DL and have to appear in person and at this time my DL is not going to be good to board a plane in another year. We will all need a 'smart' DL with facial recognition, although NJ has my photo on file and I am also required to provide my SS#. What is the answer? ETA: so each legitimate passport would have different numbers too? Darcy Collins has brought up a couple of good reasons he could legitimately have mulitple passports.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 1, 2017 16:48:33 GMT
Also keep in in mind when you hear he applied for one every year for 10 years - a second passport is only valid for 2 years and cannot be renewed. So you should not interpret the applications as attempts to obtain 10 different passports. If he was a regular traveler to China and Russia, he could probably justify that third passport and that would require he apply every year to keep all 3 valid.
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Post by papersilly on Nov 1, 2017 17:10:07 GMT
In light of what they are faced with in potential punishment, I bet they are singing like birds. I wouldn't be too sure about that (with the exception of George Papa) - my guess is they're holding out for a presidential pardon. i wouldn't be too sure about that either.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,644
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Nov 1, 2017 17:17:18 GMT
I'm assuming he was using fake names/stolen SSN or something similar. Manafort currently has three US passports, each under a different number. He has submitted 10 passport applications in roughly as many years, prosecutors said. Based on the way the information has been worded, I think he completed the applications in his real name. They specifically say they were under different numbers, but not anything about a different or fake name. They did specifically say he traveled to China with a phone registered to a fake name. The passport application works in part on the honor system. The assumption is that when people sign a form that includes a warning that providing false information is a crime, they are going to provide correct information. Very few people would intentionally want a second or third passport in their name. Who knows, maybe in the circles Manafort travels in (money laundering) it is common place and known that you can get multiple passports. Maybe they have someone in the passport office that will expediate the process for them. annabella , I just don't think the current system is set up to check if another passport has been issued to a specific name. Manafort is unique enough, but the process of checking against every John Smith, Cathy Jones or Jose Alvarez to make sure this specific person hasn't already had a passport issued to them is more onerous than what our current system is set up for I suspect. When the application is received, the process is to check everything is filled out correctly & signed and supporting documents are legitimate. Oh, I missed that. What is the benefit of having different passport numbers, but still under the same name?
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