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Post by artgirl1 on Nov 6, 2017 1:44:34 GMT
No. I’m tired of being told not to make it political. I’m going to politicize the hell out of this and every mass shooting until our leaders start offering something more than thoughts and prayers when innocent people are killed. Our politicians will continue to refuse to pass any gun control legislation because the NRA is a major political contributor. And after each shooting, they throw more money at the Politicians. www.politico.com/interactives/2017/gun-lobbying-spending-in-america-congress/And the Politicians continue to gut the Mental Health care programs. Instead of thoughts and prayers (ironic as the victims themselves were actually praying at the time of this attack!), these "leaders' need to be offering solutions. Doing nothing is not doing something. And the NRA is tweeting that media needs to use correct terms so as to not frighten people verifiedpolitics.com/nra-tweeted-right-texas-church-shooting/ We are certainly an evolved society now.  |
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Post by busy on Nov 6, 2017 1:51:00 GMT
"CBS News reported that Kelley was 26 and a former member of the U.S. Air Force. He reportedly served from 2010 until 2014, when he was court-martialed and dishonorably discharged."And allowed to buy gun/s You said it better than what I was trying to explain. I'll leave the thread because I'm a racist and we can't discuss more than one issue because Trump said so. Hey, that is not at all fair. I did not call you a racist. You replied to my post that was about the different ways white and non-white perpetrators are talked about in the aftermath. You went in a totally different direction in your reply, which is fine and your right, but my response was directing back to the issue that there is an undeniable correlation in how mass attacks are discussed depending on the race/ethnicity/religion of the attacker. |
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Post by busy on Nov 6, 2017 1:54:36 GMT
I don’t think the specifics make a damn bit of difference, honestly. What’s the common denominator among every mass shooting? Guns. They are everywhere and minimally controlled. That needs to change. Nothing is going to stop every mass shooting. There are always going to be outliers. And there are people who will find other ways to kill if they can’t get the guns they want. But guns are currently the easiest, fastest, most accessible way to kill and injure a lot of people and we can’t wait for a perfect solution. There never will be one. But how many mass shootings has Australia had since they bought back guns and severely limited what people may have? From Slate: "In the 18 years before Port Arthur [mass shooting], Australia witnessed 13 mass shootings, defined as shootings in which five or more people were killed. In the 21 years since, there have been none." I agree with you busy - nothing will stop everything, but this is insane. Just insane. It is my understanding that this man was dishonorably discharged from the service. And that isn't enough to stop him from having a gun that can kill and injure that many people in such a short time? We have to do something NOW. We ARE getting immune to this. It is devastating. Just devastating. Honestly, I feel like I had to list a few disclaimers because those objections are forever coming up as an excuse to do nothing. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 2:13:13 GMT
For those officials offering only "Thoughts and Prayers" I say "Shut it!"
These people were literally PRAYING as they were ripped apart by bullets slicing their bodies.
If god didn't hear them while they were in worship, I don't see what the sanctimonious "Thoughts and prayers" of Joe Q Politician is going to add.
TIME FOR LAWS!!!! More mental health assistance. Less gun accessibility. NOW!
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azredhead
Drama Llama
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Post by azredhead on Nov 6, 2017 2:17:46 GMT
For those officials offering only "Thoughts and Prayers" I say "Shut it!" These people were literally PRAYING as they were ripped apart by bullets slicing their bodies. If god didn't hear them while they were in worship, I don't see what the sanctimonious "Thoughts and prayers" of Joe Q Politician is going to add. TIME FOR LAWS!!!! More mental health assistance. Less gun accessibility. NOW! Soo I guess we're not supposed to offer condolences anymore? And yet officals get slammed if they don't say anything?! I'm so confused. And now a pea know people/victims.. I guess you don't know what to say anymore? |
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Post by Merge on Nov 6, 2017 2:23:24 GMT
For those officials offering only "Thoughts and Prayers" I say "Shut it!" These people were literally PRAYING as they were ripped apart by bullets slicing their bodies. If god didn't hear them while they were in worship, I don't see what the sanctimonious "Thoughts and prayers" of Joe Q Politician is going to add. TIME FOR LAWS!!!! More mental health assistance. Less gun accessibility. NOW! Soo I guess we're not supposed to offer condolences anymore? And yet officals get slammed if they don't say anything?! I'm so confused. And now a pea know people/victims.. I guess you don't know what to say anymore? Condolences from our elected officials are meaningless when those same officials have it in their power to take steps toward preventing further deaths, but do not. Condolences from officials who continue to pocket the NRA's political contributions are downright insulting. |
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scrappinmama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Nov 6, 2017 2:54:52 GMT
For those officials offering only "Thoughts and Prayers" I say "Shut it!" These people were literally PRAYING as they were ripped apart by bullets slicing their bodies. If god didn't hear them while they were in worship, I don't see what the sanctimonious "Thoughts and prayers" of Joe Q Politician is going to add. TIME FOR LAWS!!!! More mental health assistance. Less gun accessibility. NOW! Soo I guess we're not supposed to offer condolences anymore? And yet officals get slammed if they don't say anything?! I'm so confused. And now a pea know people/victims.. I guess you don't know what to say anymore? I'm a person strong in my faith and I agree with her. The people in that church don't need the prayers of politicians. They need them to finally do something about the gun problem in this country. It is in their power to do something and they do nothing. Their prayers are empty and meaningless when they stand by and do nothing. God calls us to take action and make things better. Politicians aren't doing that right now. So to me, I don't want to hear a politician give thoughts and prayers. I hope that makes sense. |
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azredhead
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Post by azredhead on Nov 6, 2017 3:02:01 GMT
scrappinmama yes that makes sense.. I am a person strong in faith as well. I think sometimes if it's not acknowledge or if they don't say something along those lines it comes across as cold and callous. I hope i'm making sense as well, but everyone has a different response and when its the politicians I understand they have a different agenda.
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Nov 6, 2017 3:14:12 GMT
scrappinmama yes that makes sense.. I am a person strong in faith as well. I think sometimes if it's not acknowledge or if they don't say something along those lines it comes across as cold and callous. I hope i'm making sense as well, but everyone has a different response and when its the politicians I understand they have a different agenda. I get you. This is such a hard time for this country. People are dying and we all feel helpless right now. I just hope that we can bring these mass killings to an end. |
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happymomma
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Post by happymomma on Nov 6, 2017 3:21:22 GMT
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Post by annaintx on Nov 6, 2017 3:44:32 GMT
Sadly it's the same shit, different day. NOTHING is ever going to change.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 6, 2017 4:45:50 GMT
Why can't both be discussed (mental illness and gun control)? He was a military veteran (2010-2014) and he was dishonorably discharged. According to his family he had mental health issues. I do not know if that's true. The Army reserves wanted my family member out because of his PTSD. While this was going on, they asked him to teach a weapons class. Let's make the military responsible for not helping veterans and stop placing blame on "personality disorders" like they have in the past. If we ignore what contributes to a mass shooting it turns into the Just Say No campaign of the 80's and prohibition of the 30's. Of course there will be less mass deaths, but there are plenty of other ways to commit suicide and kill. No lives should be lost. I've lost friends and loved ones to drug overdose, stepping in front of a car, intentional car wreck, and yes one was suicide by gun. Why not have a national registry of people at risk for suicide or other forms of mental illness that makes them ineligible to own a gun? We have an administration who says it's a mental health problem, not a gun problem. Said administration then decides to revoke legislation intended to restrict gun access to people who receive SS disability for mental health issues. That's why. The rates that insurance companies are paying for mental health care (particularly Medicare and Medicaid plans) has also been lowered to an amount that will really hurt mental health providers and therefore the people they serve when they are no longer able to stay in business. |
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Post by peano on Nov 6, 2017 4:50:21 GMT
When this guy was dishonorably discharged in 2012 for assaulting his wife and child, he should have been stripped of the right to own weapons--that is the point it should have happened.
But all we're going to hear about in the upcoming days is thoughts and prayers, and thank God for the second amendment with heaps of praise for the "good guy with a gun" who took the shooter out. And then we'll hear nothing at all...until the next one.
Meanwhile, the minister and his wife will never ever see their 14 year old daughter alive again.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 6, 2017 4:58:37 GMT
Just had a thought, how many in Congress are multi-millionaires who can pay for whatever they choose? No issues with healthcare, food, education.... There is no need for them to vote to cover us in any form.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 5:24:56 GMT
Why can't both be discussed (mental illness and gun control)? He was a military veteran (2010-2014) and he was dishonorably discharged. According to his family he had mental health issues. I do not know if that's true. The Army reserves wanted my family member out because of his PTSD. While this was going on, they asked him to teach a weapons class. Let's make the military responsible for not helping veterans and stop placing blame on "personality disorders" like they have in the past. If we ignore what contributes to a mass shooting it turns into the Just Say No campaign of the 80's and prohibition of the 30's. Of course there will be less mass deaths, but there are plenty of other ways to commit suicide and kill. No lives should be lost. I've lost friends and loved ones to drug overdose, stepping in front of a car, intentional car wreck, and yes one was suicide by gun. Why not have a national registry of people at risk for suicide or other forms of mental illness that makes them ineligible to own a gun? The legislation in question does NOT, in fact—fact being the key word here—“keep guns from the mentally ill,” and repealing it will not allow the mentally ill access to firearms. This is a falsehood, one that would require roughly 3.5 seconds of fact checking to disprove.
Not being able to handle your finances is not a measure of whether you should be allowed to protect yourself or not. They are very different determinations. Individuals should be determined to be a risk to themselves and others, not a blanket determination by the Social Security Administration, which does not allow due process. In the same way the No Fly List is run. You don't know you're on it until you try to fly, it's full of mistakes (babies are listed, people working in Homeland Security are on it, right name, wrong person, threats to be informants or be put on the list, etc), and a court has ruled the process for getting off the list as unconstitutional. There's a reason the ACLU and dozens of mental health groups have urged the repeal of the law Obama put in place. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Nov 6, 2017 5:55:58 GMT
But the fact of the matter remains when I labeled white men dangerous leftturnonly called it hateful rhetoric. When I said white men with PTSD are killing black men dead in the street LEOwife took it personally. This was in July before Jordan Edwards was killed. After his death I said the police should have a quick mental health assessment before each shift. Ignored. Last week I asked why white women were so resistant to better gun control when white men seem to have you at the nozzle of one at every turn. Domestic violence at the core of this mass murderer's warning signs!!!
So I don't mind if you keep shaming me for calling it exactly as it is, but afterward could you go lock up his guns and try rearing some kids who won't go on to open fire in houses of worship? The president you elected won't so maybe you could start taking some ownership today.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 5:57:25 GMT
This is probably going to sound terrible. I don't know how else to phrase it so I hope people can trust my heart isn't nasty.
Often, Baptists are Conservative Republicans, who are usually the ones who oppose gun control. Maybe now that gun violence has affected "their own," they will consider change.
Not that as human beings any of the previous victims from other shootings WEREN'T "their own," or that these or any other victims deserved this, but I do hope maybe this one has made an impact-enough of one to make a change.
I'm not saying this is how *I* see things, but I'm wondering if *they* (gun control objectors) see things.
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Post by tracyarts on Nov 6, 2017 6:00:00 GMT
He was stripped of that right. He was breaking the law by possessing weapons. I don't know whether he already had them and held onto them illegally, or illegally acquired them afterwards. But he was breaking the law by possessing them. When this guy was dishonorably discharged in 2012 for assaulting his wife and child, he should have been stripped of the right to own weapons--that is the point it should have happened. But all we're going to hear about in the upcoming days is thoughts and prayers, and thank God for the second amendment with heaps of praise for the "good guy with a gun" who took the shooter out. And then we'll hear nothing at all...until the next one. Meanwhile, the minister and his wife will never ever see their 14 year old daughter alive again. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Nov 6, 2017 6:07:17 GMT
This is probably going to sound terrible. I don't know how else to phrase it so I hope people can trust my heart isn't nasty. Often, Baptists are Conservative Republicans, who are usually the ones who oppose gun control. Maybe now that gun violence has affected "their own," they will consider change. Not that as human beings any of the previous victims from other shootings WEREN'T "their own," or that these or any other victims deserved this, but I do hope maybe this one has made an impact-enough of one to make a change. I hate to say this but if Sandy Hook and all those children dying didn't affect change I don't see how this could change the hearts of Conservative Republicans. No one should be waiting around for that. |
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Post by 50offscrapper on Nov 6, 2017 6:12:31 GMT
Let’s just say I am appalled at people here saying prayers don’t work. Maybe just maybe if people prayed this country would change. You’ve voted, ranted and raved but you got what you have always got. Maybe we should try prayer with repentance. And maybe we should learn that prayer isn’t about necessarily getting what we pray for. It’s about learning and living through whatever circumstance we find ourselves in.
2 Chronicles 7:14New International Version (NIV)
14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
So until: we humble yourselves, pray, seek His face, and turn from our wicked ways, we will have what currently have.
Don’t knock it till you try it as outlined above. Seriously...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 6:15:09 GMT
This is probably going to sound terrible. I don't know how else to phrase it so I hope people can trust my heart isn't nasty. Often, Baptists are Conservative Republicans, who are usually the ones who oppose gun control. Maybe now that gun violence has affected "their own," they will consider change. Not that as human beings any of the previous victims from other shootings WEREN'T "their own," or that these or any other victims deserved this, but I do hope maybe this one has made an impact-enough of one to make a change. I hate to say this but if Sandy Hook and all those children dying didn't affect change I don't see how this could change the hearts of Conservative Republicans. No one should be waiting around for that. You're right, it *shouldn't* be this way. I just wonder if it is/will be. |
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Post by 50offscrapper on Nov 6, 2017 6:20:40 GMT
I believe in the right to bear arms and on background checks. I believe in the right to bear arms and in funding mental illness. I believe in the right to bear arms and closing loopholes in gun shows. These things are not mutually exclusive. Mexico has strict gun laws but terrible gun violence.
We need more done, but that won’t change until we change what children are allowed to watch. American Tv and movies glorify violence. Video games glorify violence. Is everyone here willing to censor Hollywood to effect change? Because in my opinion that would reduce violence more than anything else!
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
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Post by valincal on Nov 6, 2017 6:35:56 GMT
Let’s just say I am appalled at people here saying prayers don’t work. Maybe just maybe if people prayed this country would change. You’ve voted, ranted and raved but you got what you have always got. Maybe we should try prayer with repentance. And maybe we should learn that prayer isn’t about necessarily getting what we pray for. It’s about learning and living through whatever circumstance we find ourselves in. 2 Chronicles 7:14New International Version (NIV) 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. So until: we humble yourselves, pray, seek His face, and turn from our wicked ways, we will have what currently have. Don’t knock it till you try it as outlined above. Seriously... Your country is waaay more religious and prayerful than the other Western nations that do not experience near-daily mass shootings. Edited to address another comment you made... And those of us in other countries watch tons of American TV and Hollywood movies. And our children play video games. There's something else going on in the US. |
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Post by busy on Nov 6, 2017 6:55:37 GMT
Let’s just say I am appalled at people here saying prayers don’t work. Maybe just maybe if people prayed this country would change. You’ve voted, ranted and raved but you got what you have always got. Maybe we should try prayer with repentance. And maybe we should learn that prayer isn’t about necessarily getting what we pray for. It’s about learning and living through whatever circumstance we find ourselves in. 2 Chronicles 7:14New International Version (NIV) 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. So until: we humble yourselves, pray, seek His face, and turn from our wicked ways, we will have what currently have. Don’t knock it till you try it as outlined above. Seriously... These people were literally murdered while praying. |
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Post by flanz on Nov 6, 2017 6:56:36 GMT
Prayer brings people together and gives comfort it is different for everyone, people also want to send condolences to be supportive. This is just heart breaking and horrific!! My thoght and prayers are will all affected. You can change things but it also helps to comfort people and everyone does that differently. I’m curious how do your prayers comfort the dead? I know you mean well and maybe prayers will bring comfort to the family of the little 9 year old with terminal cancer that is asking for Christmas cards for his last Christmas. The reason prayers may bring them comfort is because they know everything that could be done was done for this little boy.
But that’s not the case for this shooting, or the one at Walmart, or the one in Las Vegas or the one at Sandy Hook. Or any of the others that have happened. Not everything was done to prevent this one or any of the others that have happened and will continue to happen. Without action those prayers are nothing but empty words. Given a choice between “being in my thoughts and prayers” or actual action to stop or at least curtail these shootings I’m pretty sure the family members and friends of the shooting victims would chose action over prayers. As would the victims themselves.It seems this country may have hit another milestone. I read today’s mass shooting could be the most deadliest at a place of worship in the history of this country. Way to go USA! YES!!! All of it, but esp. bolded. ACTIONS change our world! |
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Post by flanz on Nov 6, 2017 6:57:38 GMT
Yeah....making it political is only ok if you're a republican. Or president... Or if the shooter is a brown-skinned immigrant. We don't know yet (that I've seen) who the shooter was here, but our state and national leaders' responses will be completely different depending on the race and/or national origin of the shooter. That we know for sure. very true. and deplorable.  |
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Post by 50offscrapper on Nov 6, 2017 7:04:05 GMT
Let’s just say I am appalled at people here saying prayers don’t work. Maybe just maybe if people prayed this country would change. You’ve voted, ranted and raved but you got what you have always got. Maybe we should try prayer with repentance. And maybe we should learn that prayer isn’t about necessarily getting what we pray for. It’s about learning and living through whatever circumstance we find ourselves in. 2 Chronicles 7:14New International Version (NIV) 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. So until: we humble yourselves, pray, seek His face, and turn from our wicked ways, we will have what currently have. Don’t knock it till you try it as outlined above. Seriously... Your country is waaay more religious and prayerful than the other Western nations that do not experience near-daily mass shootings. Edited to address another comment you made... And those of us in other countries watch tons of American TV and Hollywood movies. And our children play video games. There's something else going on in the US. I hear you. I am curious what do you think that something is. Culture? What country are you in and do you believe that that your country’s culture glorifies violence as much? I am seriously trying to understand what causes the US to be so violent. I wish I knew. Would love to hear thoughts about this. |
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Post by 50offscrapper on Nov 6, 2017 7:13:38 GMT
Let’s just say I am appalled at people here saying prayers don’t work. Maybe just maybe if people prayed this country would change. You’ve voted, ranted and raved but you got what you have always got. Maybe we should try prayer with repentance. And maybe we should learn that prayer isn’t about necessarily getting what we pray for. It’s about learning and living through whatever circumstance we find ourselves in. 2 Chronicles 7:14New International Version (NIV) 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. So until: we humble yourselves, pray, seek His face, and turn from our wicked ways, we will have what currently have. Don’t knock it till you try it as outlined above. Seriously... These people were literally murdered while praying. Busy, I hear what you are saying, but prayer doesn’t mean that bad things don’t happen to me or my loved ones. Not at all. Do you believe in prayer at all? If not, why not? It’s ok if you don’t. I was just expressing my disappointment that people were being dismissive about prayer. It’s ok to argue for other action but no need to be dismissive about prayer. That is what I was trying to say. |
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Post by gar on Nov 6, 2017 8:30:40 GMT
Do you believe in prayer at all? If not, why not? Because it clearly ain't working. I'll just second what valincal said. The difference between our countries and yours is, in a nutshell, the availability of guns. |
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