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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 17:15:01 GMT
jlynnbarth I agree with your assessments.
I think all the violence on tv, video games, movies, have to be part of this equation. There ARE responsible gun owners. There are irresponsible gun owners. There are responsible drivers, and there are drivers that drink and drive, or use drugs and drive.
There aren't any blanket cures for this.
The child responsible for this current shooting is 18 years old. He's considered an adult. Apparently, he was labeled a "troublemaker" for quite some time. From what I've read, his name was even turned in to the FBI. (remember hearing SEE SOMETHING-REPORT SOMETHING?) Apparently, they did!! and this still happened. I've read that he even said in a u-tube movie that he was going to massacre people. How many indicators do we need before action was taken? He should have taken out an ad!! Also according to what I've read, he announced his intentions on facebook or social media someplace. Then AFTER the fact, and his name was mentioned at the school, it was no surprise that this man was who did it.
The boy is obviously troubled! He'd been in the foster system, got adopted, then his father died, and recently his adoptive mother died. That in itself could be enough to trigger some kind of a breakdown!! How much can one child be expected to put under his belt before he breaks? I feel for all those affected by this tragedy of course, and the young man that did this also has my prayers. There must be a lot of demons floating in his tortured head for him to commit such a thing.
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Post by auntkelly on Feb 15, 2018 17:29:22 GMT
One thing to keep in mind about the food boxes is that in urban areas, a lot of the people receiving the boxes would be living in government subsidized housing where you have a large amount of recipients in a very concentrated area, which helps with the distribution issues.
I volunteered for a food bank in the Houston area and once a month they delivered two food sacks to supplement other food programs the seniors were enrolled in. We took the sacks to the lobby of the apartment complex and the residents who were able, came down and picked up their sacks. It was a big social event. They couldn't wait to look in their sacks and see what was in them. They would start trading food with each other like kids in a grade school cafeteria. If residents were unable to come down and pick up their sacks, a neighbor would pick them up for them or we would take them up to their apartment.
Of course in rural areas of the country the distribution process would be more complicated.
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Post by redhead32 on Feb 15, 2018 17:44:26 GMT
jlynnbarth I agree with your assessments. I think all the violence on tv, video games, movies, have to be part of this equation. There ARE responsible gun owners. There are irresponsible gun owners. There are responsible drivers, and there are drivers that drink and drive, or use drugs and drive. There aren't any blanket cures for this. The child responsible for this current shooting is 18 years old. He's considered an adult. Apparently, he was labeled a "troublemaker" for quite some time. From what I've read, his name was even turned in to the FBI. (remember hearing SEE SOMETHING-REPORT SOMETHING?) Apparently, they did!! and this still happened. I've read that he even said in a u-tube movie that he was going to massacre people. How many indicators do we need before action was taken? He should have taken out an ad!! Also according to what I've read, he announced his intentions on facebook or social media someplace. Then AFTER the fact, and his name was mentioned at the school, it was no surprise that this man was who did it. The boy is obviously troubled! He'd been in the foster system, got adopted, then his father died, and recently his adoptive mother died. That in itself could be enough to trigger some kind of a breakdown!! How much can one child be expected to put under his belt before he breaks? I feel for all those affected by this tragedy of course, and the young man that did this also has my prayers. There must be a lot of demons floating in his tortured head for him to commit such a thing. Are you advocating "punishing" someone for something they might do? I don't think anyone will dispute this shooter was on a lot of radars. What does that even mean? Identifying potential problems is a start but not a solution. Society identified this shooter. It didn't stop anything because all of that identification still didn't stop him from accessing guns. Doesn't it make more sense to limit gun access? |
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Montannie
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: Big Sky Country
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Post by Montannie on Feb 15, 2018 17:56:13 GMT
* * * The boy is obviously troubled! He'd been in the foster system, got adopted, then his father died, and recently his adoptive mother died. That in itself could be enough to trigger some kind of a breakdown!! How much can one child be expected to put under his belt before he breaks? I feel for all those affected by this tragedy of course, and the young man that did this also has my prayers. There must be a lot of demons floating in his tortured head for him to commit such a thing. Gun violence like this is a complicated problem, but you are correct that adverse childhood experiences are a factor behind a lot of violence today. And there are more and more kids with complicated childhoods today. Parental drug abuse, divorce, poverty, household instability all give rise to kids with impaired abilities to cope with the world. The CDC has great information.
Solving gun violence probably includes some common sense control measures, changing the mentality/celebration of guns, and addressing the problems of drug abuse, poverty, family instability, exposure to violent media, etc.
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Post by pierkiss on Feb 15, 2018 17:56:15 GMT
jlynnbarth I agree with your assessments. I think all the violence on tv, video games, movies, have to be part of this equation. There ARE responsible gun owners. There are irresponsible gun owners. There are responsible drivers, and there are drivers that drink and drive, or use drugs and drive. There aren't any blanket cures for this. The child responsible for this current shooting is 18 years old. He's considered an adult. Apparently, he was labeled a "troublemaker" for quite some time. From what I've read, his name was even turned in to the FBI. (remember hearing SEE SOMETHING-REPORT SOMETHING?) Apparently, they did!! and this still happened. I've read that he even said in a u-tube movie that he was going to massacre people. How many indicators do we need before action was taken? He should have taken out an ad!! Also according to what I've read, he announced his intentions on facebook or social media someplace. Then AFTER the fact, and his name was mentioned at the school, it was no surprise that this man was who did it. The boy is obviously troubled! He'd been in the foster system, got adopted, then his father died, and recently his adoptive mother died. That in itself could be enough to trigger some kind of a breakdown!! How much can one child be expected to put under his belt before he breaks? I feel for all those affected by this tragedy of course, and the young man that did this also has my prayers. There must be a lot of demons floating in his tortured head for him to commit such a thing. I think this case is a great example of the need for mental health reform in this country. More access to services, providing services that actually offer and implement solutions. Better screening for mental health issues, where if any flags come up treatment for those disorders can begin. Access to affordable medications to treat various disorders that can be helped with medication Also, I read that this man bought his gun legally. I’m assuming that is a fact, though I haven’t done a lot of reading about this shooting and shooter (because I just can’t guys. My heart hurts too much from the incessant public shootings happening in this country). That fact, combined with his long history listed above, tells me that we need a screening process for purchasing guns in this country. I’m all done in here now, I’ll go back to quietly lurking. I’m not looking to argue with anyone. |
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Feb 15, 2018 18:04:28 GMT
jlynnbarth I agree with your assessments. I think all the violence on tv, video games, movies, have to be part of this equation. There ARE responsible gun owners. There are irresponsible gun owners. There are responsible drivers, and there are drivers that drink and drive, or use drugs and drive. There aren't any blanket cures for this. The child responsible for this current shooting is 18 years old. He's considered an adult. Apparently, he was labeled a "troublemaker" for quite some time. From what I've read, his name was even turned in to the FBI. (remember hearing SEE SOMETHING-REPORT SOMETHING?) Apparently, they did!! and this still happened. I've read that he even said in a u-tube movie that he was going to massacre people. How many indicators do we need before action was taken? He should have taken out an ad!! Also according to what I've read, he announced his intentions on facebook or social media someplace. Then AFTER the fact, and his name was mentioned at the school, it was no surprise that this man was who did it. The boy is obviously troubled! He'd been in the foster system, got adopted, then his father died, and recently his adoptive mother died. That in itself could be enough to trigger some kind of a breakdown!! How much can one child be expected to put under his belt before he breaks? I feel for all those affected by this tragedy of course, and the young man that did this also has my prayers. There must be a lot of demons floating in his tortured head for him to commit such a thing. Are you advocating "punishing" someone for something they might do? I don't think anyone will dispute this shooter was on a lot of radars. What does that even mean? Identifying potential problems is a start but not a solution. Society identified this shooter. It didn't stop anything because all of that identification still didn't stop him from accessing guns. Doesn't it make more sense to limit gun access? Everybody's theories/reasoning on what could be the problem may have merit. They all could be/may be part of the problem. But what one theory fits in one shooting may not fit in them all. The only thing I see that is beyond a theory, (a fact), in all the shootings is the presence of guns. That needs to be addressed in some form or another. As in figure out the relationship between guns and all the other theories we are throwing out. Instead of pointing fingers at that one thing of choice to blame then never getting around to doing anything. It isn't a one-thing-answer to me. It's more complex and needs to be dealt with but addressing "guns" (in one way or another) has to be part of the solution. The one constant is guns. Mental illness, and guns. Lack of parental influence. and guns. Lack of law enforcement. and guns. Violent video games. and guns. Social media. and guns. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 21:02:40 GMT
So this is totally off topic from Food Stamps. Sorry, but it’s on my mind and I don’t dare wade in on the other post because I’m sure to get eaten alive. The newest school shooting today is again another day of loss, sadness, prayer, reflection, tears and fighting. We had a school shooting here in Sept, so it’s still very fresh to me. My heart breaks for everyone involved, which includes their whole community and our country. I was reading the back and forth on the other thread and someone (I honestly don’t remember who and I’m too lazy to go find it because it’s after midnight and I’m tired.) posted a statistic about school shootings since the 1800’s I believe. There were very few until the 60’s and they started climbing. The poster commented that the AR 15 Started being sold in 1964. I think her intent was to say that there is a correlation between the sale of the gun and school shootings. I can understand her thinking. But the late 60’s was also the big push to women’s lib. More and more families started having both parents working outside the home. It has grown and grown. I remember when my Mom started working in the late 70’s and my sister and I became “latch key” kids. We hated that Mom wasn’t home when we got home from school. My mind just goes to could there be a correlation to these school shootings happening more and more because kids are left alone for so many hours a day? No one is there when they get home to ask “how was your day?” There’s no one to tell “so and so is being mean to me how should I handle it?” Etc... I am NOT saying Moms need to stay home and be Susie home maker. I’ve worked since I was 15 years old. Both of my children went to daycare until my dh or I could pick them up. But we know that the family unit is not what it used to be. Could the combination of that and the shows and videos they look at and play and the way people treat each other with total disrespect play into what is going on in our society? I’ve seen 3 videos in the past week on social media of kids bullying other kids. The worst was a pre-teen possible teen girl bullying a special needs student. The girl raised her chair in the air and swung like she was going to hit her but hit the desk, then knocked the girl in the arm with the chair. Everyone laughed! The girl seemed encouraged by the laughter and came and smacked the girl hard on the head with her hand. You hear a couple kids suck in their breath, but no one says stop. Where was the teacher? Where was just one other student that stood up and said stop? I was horrified. Thankfully the video got put on social media and a random Mom shared it to the local police fb page and they said they would investigate. Hopefully all involved are reprimanded. I just think it’s more than guns that are the problem and I think we all need to own the fact that we (general we) are failing to do our jobs in teaching our children how to treat others and how to handle situations and cope with stress. And the really sucky part is that no one will own it. Everyone thinks they have the best kids ever. I know this was long. I’m sorry, I’m just frustrated and I’m looking for more answers than just what we hear repeatedly. That it’s guns, that it’s mental illness. Something in our society changed. It isn’t just that a gun can spit out more bullets. Guns have been around a long long time and you didn’t see kids taking them to school and shooting people very often until more recently in our history. A lot of good points. I also think the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality and parents screaming at teachers when the kid does something wrong or gets a bad grade mentalities contributes to the issue. They don't get a chance to learn anything from losing or failing. It used to be when the kid got in trouble at school, they'd also get into worse trouble at home. Now there are so many with the thought process that they have to save the kid from feeling bad or make sure they get into college. College has become the be all end game and emotional development be damned. It seems like too many kids are not getting the chance to fail and learn from it. Instead of going over what they got wrong for the grade and learning the material, too many parents are demanding the grade be changed. I think that mentality is hurting child development. It used to be that when kids had conflict, they worked it out themselves and I think they learned a lot in the process. Now we have parents stepping in for everything and trying to work it out for them. Get in trouble? Not my kid! Don't you condemn my kid for their bad actions!!! Don't talk to my kid that way! Or it's not my kid's fault because insert rationalization and excuses. And the kids are learning things from all of that, that we don't want them to learn. Even the way we get kids active and social has changed. We arrange play dates FOR them and take them here there and everywhere for all of their activities. Used to be the kids would get out there and create and navigate their social life themselves. And they learned a lot in the process that might not happen in the current way they're treated and conditioned. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 21:06:55 GMT
jlynnbarth I agree with your assessments. I think all the violence on tv, video games, movies, have to be part of this equation. There ARE responsible gun owners. There are irresponsible gun owners. There are responsible drivers, and there are drivers that drink and drive, or use drugs and drive. There aren't any blanket cures for this. The child responsible for this current shooting is 18 years old. He's considered an adult. Apparently, he was labeled a "troublemaker" for quite some time. From what I've read, his name was even turned in to the FBI. (remember hearing SEE SOMETHING-REPORT SOMETHING?) Apparently, they did!! and this still happened. I've read that he even said in a u-tube movie that he was going to massacre people. How many indicators do we need before action was taken? He should have taken out an ad!! Also according to what I've read, he announced his intentions on facebook or social media someplace. Then AFTER the fact, and his name was mentioned at the school, it was no surprise that this man was who did it. The boy is obviously troubled! He'd been in the foster system, got adopted, then his father died, and recently his adoptive mother died. That in itself could be enough to trigger some kind of a breakdown!! How much can one child be expected to put under his belt before he breaks? I feel for all those affected by this tragedy of course, and the young man that did this also has my prayers. There must be a lot of demons floating in his tortured head for him to commit such a thing. Are you advocating "punishing" someone for something they might do? I don't think anyone will dispute this shooter was on a lot of radars. What does that even mean? Identifying potential problems is a start but not a solution. Society identified this shooter. It didn't stop anything because all of that identification still didn't stop him from accessing guns. Doesn't it make more sense to limit gun access? I actually don't think I said that. I think we need to address the mental health issues in this country. |
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Post by Merge on Feb 15, 2018 21:07:35 GMT
So this is totally off topic from Food Stamps. Sorry, but it’s on my mind and I don’t dare wade in on the other post because I’m sure to get eaten alive. The newest school shooting today is again another day of loss, sadness, prayer, reflection, tears and fighting. We had a school shooting here in Sept, so it’s still very fresh to me. My heart breaks for everyone involved, which includes their whole community and our country. I was reading the back and forth on the other thread and someone (I honestly don’t remember who and I’m too lazy to go find it because it’s after midnight and I’m tired.) posted a statistic about school shootings since the 1800’s I believe. There were very few until the 60’s and they started climbing. The poster commented that the AR 15 Started being sold in 1964. I think her intent was to say that there is a correlation between the sale of the gun and school shootings. I can understand her thinking. But the late 60’s was also the big push to women’s lib. More and more families started having both parents working outside the home. It has grown and grown. I remember when my Mom started working in the late 70’s and my sister and I became “latch key” kids. We hated that Mom wasn’t home when we got home from school. My mind just goes to could there be a correlation to these school shootings happening more and more because kids are left alone for so many hours a day? No one is there when they get home to ask “how was your day?” There’s no one to tell “so and so is being mean to me how should I handle it?” Etc... I am NOT saying Moms need to stay home and be Susie home maker. I’ve worked since I was 15 years old. Both of my children went to daycare until my dh or I could pick them up. But we know that the family unit is not what it used to be. Could the combination of that and the shows and videos they look at and play and the way people treat each other with total disrespect play into what is going on in our society? I’ve seen 3 videos in the past week on social media of kids bullying other kids. The worst was a pre-teen possible teen girl bullying a special needs student. The girl raised her chair in the air and swung like she was going to hit her but hit the desk, then knocked the girl in the arm with the chair. Everyone laughed! The girl seemed encouraged by the laughter and came and smacked the girl hard on the head with her hand. You hear a couple kids suck in their breath, but no one says stop. Where was the teacher? Where was just one other student that stood up and said stop? I was horrified. Thankfully the video got put on social media and a random Mom shared it to the local police fb page and they said they would investigate. Hopefully all involved are reprimanded. I just think it’s more than guns that are the problem and I think we all need to own the fact that we (general we) are failing to do our jobs in teaching our children how to treat others and how to handle situations and cope with stress. And the really sucky part is that no one will own it. Everyone thinks they have the best kids ever. I know this was long. I’m sorry, I’m just frustrated and I’m looking for more answers than just what we hear repeatedly. That it’s guns, that it’s mental illness. Something in our society changed. It isn’t just that a gun can spit out more bullets. Guns have been around a long long time and you didn’t see kids taking them to school and shooting people very often until more recently in our history. A lot of good points. I also think the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality and parents screaming at teachers when the kid does something wrong or gets a bad grade mentalities contributes to the issue. They don't get a chance to learn anything from losing or failing. It used to be when the kid got in trouble at school, they'd also get into worse trouble at home. Now there are so many with the thought process that they have to save the kid from feeling bad or make sure they get into college. College has become the be all end game and emotional development be damned. It seems like too many kids are not getting the chance to fail and learn from it. Instead of going over what they got wrong for the grade and learning the material, too many parents are demanding the grade be changed. I think that mentality is hurting child development. It used to be that when kids had conflict, they worked it out themselves and I think they learned a lot in the process. Now we have parents stepping in for everything and trying to work it out for them. Get in trouble? Not my kid! Don't you condemn my kid for their bad actions!!! Don't talk to my kid that way! Or it's not my kid's fault because insert rationalization and excuses. And the kids are learning things from all of that, that we don't want them to learn. Even the way we get kids active and social has changed. We arrange play dates FOR them and take them here there and everywhere for all of their activities. Used to be the kids would get out there and create and navigate their social life themselves. And they learned a lot in the process that might not happen in the current way they're treated and conditioned. Gia, this is something about which we totally agree! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 21:13:43 GMT
Something in our society changed. It isn’t just that a gun can spit out more bullets. Guns have been around a long long time and you didn’t see kids taking them to school and shooting people very often until more recently in our history. Guns are now worshipped...absolutely worshipped by many I would consider a fringe of the gun-owning population. And yes, it does matter greatly that every citizen can relatively easily obtain an assault rifle. I don't know what to say if you don't see the difference between using a handgun on a crowd of people and using an AR-15 on a crowd of people.
Society hasn't changed. The gun culture has. And the NRA pays our politicians to make certain they continue to make money. Maybe what you can say is to explain the difference. Put it into words for those of us who understand that an AR-15 only shoots one bullet per trigger pull, exactly as a handgun works. What IS the difference? If you really want to push that narrative, you need to explain it instead of just posting a cliched put down. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 21:15:17 GMT
I think this case is a great example of the need for mental health reform in this country. More access to services, providing services that actually offer and implement solutions. Better screening for mental health issues, where if any flags come up treatment for those disorders can begin. Access to affordable medications to treat various disorders that can be helped with medication Also, I read that this man bought his gun legally. I’m assuming that is a fact, though I haven’t done a lot of reading about this shooting and shooter (because I just can’t guys. My heart hurts too much from the incessant public shootings happening in this country). That fact, combined with his long history listed above, tells me that we need a screening process for purchasing guns in this country. I’m all done in here now, I’ll go back to quietly lurking. I’m not looking to argue with anyone.I'm not sure that he bought the gun legally. I've read that he was supposed to be 21 before buying a gun. and I REALLY appreciate the other bolded sentence. Our conservative thread is not for arguing.  It's for respectful discussion back and forth. and on the whole, so far that is the case! |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 15, 2018 21:31:18 GMT
I think this case is a great example of the need for mental health reform in this country. More access to services, providing services that actually offer and implement solutions. Better screening for mental health issues, where if any flags come up treatment for those disorders can begin. Access to affordable medications to treat various disorders that can be helped with medication Also, I read that this man bought his gun legally. I’m assuming that is a fact, though I haven’t done a lot of reading about this shooting and shooter (because I just can’t guys. My heart hurts too much from the incessant public shootings happening in this country). That fact, combined with his long history listed above, tells me that we need a screening process for purchasing guns in this country. I’m all done in here now, I’ll go back to quietly lurking. I’m not looking to argue with anyone.I'm not sure that he bought the gun legally. I've read that he was supposed to be 21 before buying a gun. and I REALLY appreciate the other bolded sentence. Our conservative thread is not for arguing. It's for respectful discussion back and forth. and on the whole, so far that is the case! The press release I read said he bought the gun legally, which would make sense as you only need to be 18 to buy a long gun in Florida. Only a handful of states restrict gun purchases for ages beyond the federal requirements (21 for a handgun and 18 for a long gun). ETA article: www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/15/florida-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-guns-depression-and-a-life-in-free-fall/?utm_term=.2b89cf4160aa |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 21:45:13 GMT
Thank you for the clarification. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 15, 2018 21:47:09 GMT
Guns are now worshipped...absolutely worshipped by many I would consider a fringe of the gun-owning population. And yes, it does matter greatly that every citizen can relatively easily obtain an assault rifle. I don't know what to say if you don't see the difference between using a handgun on a crowd of people and using an AR-15 on a crowd of people.
Society hasn't changed. The gun culture has. And the NRA pays our politicians to make certain they continue to make money. Maybe what you can say is to explain the difference. Put it into words for those of us who understand that an AR-15 only shoots one bullet per trigger pull, exactly as a handgun works. What IS the difference? If you really want to push that narrative, you need to explain it instead of just posting a cliched put down. We'll leave aside differences in magazine size (both standard and easily available modified) which can impact the ability to successfully stop a shooter) and just stick to physics: www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/ |
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Post by Really Red on Feb 15, 2018 22:01:02 GMT
Did you see what that poor little girl who was hiding in a classroom for 2 hours said? Something close to: If anyone thinks it's not about the guns, I assure you that it is about the guns. I can't find the quote now, but it made me cry.
It wasn't about the guns at the Texas church, according to Trump, and it's not about the guns now?
IT IS ABOUT THE GUNS.
I don't care that there are other underlying causes, it is about the damn guns.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,563
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Post by RosieKat on Feb 15, 2018 22:05:33 GMT
| [article] That is what we've found in our food ministry also. The people that 'live in tents' or on the street around town have no refrigerator to keep things fresh. We've even bought can openers for people because some people don't even have those.
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Yes, when people ask me for 1 basic kind of thing to donate to our food pantry, I tell them protein rich, in pop-top cans or pouches. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 22:18:09 GMT
| [article] That is what we've found in our food ministry also. The people that 'live in tents' or on the street around town have no refrigerator to keep things fresh. We've even bought can openers for people because some people don't even have those.
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Yes, when people ask me for 1 basic kind of thing to donate to our food pantry, I tell them protein rich, in pop-top cans or pouches. Easy to eat, easy to carry around in their backpacks!! Another church in town makes up packets with new socks, tooth brushes, toothpaste, and a "lunch" type meal--kind of like lunchables, but made up themselves at their church. Oh I think there is also a small package of wipes of some kind, and a few cookies! (warm gloves in the winter) They give those out to the people in parking lots that are begging, or to people standing around town with HOMELESS signs. They have several people that have those packets in their cars and hand them out as the people in need are seen. Gotta do something!! |
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Post by megop on Feb 15, 2018 22:20:48 GMT
Perhaps you are correct in not partnering with Amazon, but replicating the model is not out of the question. Further, with staples provided, 1/2 left for local fresh produce. Again, we must look toward innovation (and further up on this thread, I also pointed out that I don't believe a one size fits all option will ultimately be the answer, but we must start somewhere) in order to meaningfully address and sustain a safety net. Just my opinion. not to be overly negative, but I just want to say that with the track record of this President making grand, sweeping proclamations that won't / can't ever come true (a wall that Mexico would pay for comes to mind), I have no faith that this administration would do research to make this sort of a program workable, or try to implement ANY of the suggestions you've given. I don't disagree that all the options you've listed are good ones, I just don't believe our current government would actually spend the time, research, and money to make a program like this workable. Based on what I've seen so far. Agreed. A girl can dream though right? I know my views are heavily influenced by the training and culture I’ve received at my work surrounding innovation and population health. Innovation is not only encouraged, but expected in my current role. Cost containment and reduction while maintaining quality and improving experience is something I live each day. |
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peasquared
Drama Llama
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Post by peasquared on Feb 15, 2018 22:23:11 GMT
Help me with a question, please. I'm assuming the idea of the food boxes is to cut down expenses, right? That doesn't solve the problem of those that abuse the system, does it? We would still have a problem with just more problems (unappreciated selection of food, storage and delivery cost, allergies and ethnic options, etc.) added on top.
I feel it would be far wiser to really crack down on the inadequacies of the program at each county level. Expensive, yes, it the short term, but more economical long term.
Am I all wrong in those thoughts?
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Post by mom on Feb 15, 2018 22:25:35 GMT
Something in our society changed. It isn’t just that a gun can spit out more bullets. Guns have been around a long long time and you didn’t see kids taking them to school and shooting people very often until more recently in our history. Guns are now worshipped...absolutely worshipped by many I would consider a fringe of the gun-owning population. And yes, it does matter greatly that every citizen can relatively easily obtain an assault rifle. I don't know what to say if you don't see the difference between using a handgun on a crowd of people and using an AR-15 on a crowd of people. Society hasn't changed. The gun culture has. And the NRA pays our politicians to make certain they continue to make money. I agree that the gun culture has changed. But society has most definitely also changed. SaveSave |
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Post by Skellinton on Feb 15, 2018 22:28:34 GMT
When I was in college, lo those many years ago, I lived near a food bank type place where people could go and get bags of groceries. If you walked one block past that building you would encounter numerous people selling the items from their bag of food.
I don’t really know what the answer is, but my main concern with the food box idea is that absolute risk of corruption, for lack of a better word, in how the boxes are paid for, who gets the contracts, what is included, etc. I just think there is so much freaking waste in the government that these boxes would end up costing more then just the ebt cards cost.
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 15, 2018 22:31:26 GMT
Guns are now worshipped...absolutely worshipped by many I would consider a fringe of the gun-owning population. And yes, it does matter greatly that every citizen can relatively easily obtain an assault rifle. I don't know what to say if you don't see the difference between using a handgun on a crowd of people and using an AR-15 on a crowd of people.
Society hasn't changed. The gun culture has. And the NRA pays our politicians to make certain they continue to make money. Maybe what you can say is to explain the difference. Put it into words for those of us who understand that an AR-15 only shoots one bullet per trigger pull, exactly as a handgun works. What IS the difference? If you really want to push that narrative, you need to explain it instead of just posting a cliched put down. There is a reason semi-automatic guns like the AR-15 are the weapon of choice for mass shooters. It is a combination of accuracy, speed, larger capacity magazines, and destructive power. A handgun just can't wreak the same amount of havoc in the same time frame even if you are putting out one bullet per trigger pull. From NBC |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 1:00:34 GMT
A lot of good points. I also think the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality and parents screaming at teachers when the kid does something wrong or gets a bad grade mentalities contributes to the issue. They don't get a chance to learn anything from losing or failing. It used to be when the kid got in trouble at school, they'd also get into worse trouble at home. Now there are so many with the thought process that they have to save the kid from feeling bad or make sure they get into college. College has become the be all end game and emotional development be damned. It seems like too many kids are not getting the chance to fail and learn from it. Instead of going over what they got wrong for the grade and learning the material, too many parents are demanding the grade be changed. I think that mentality is hurting child development. It used to be that when kids had conflict, they worked it out themselves and I think they learned a lot in the process. Now we have parents stepping in for everything and trying to work it out for them. Get in trouble? Not my kid! Don't you condemn my kid for their bad actions!!! Don't talk to my kid that way! Or it's not my kid's fault because insert rationalization and excuses. And the kids are learning things from all of that, that we don't want them to learn. Even the way we get kids active and social has changed. We arrange play dates FOR them and take them here there and everywhere for all of their activities. Used to be the kids would get out there and create and navigate their social life themselves. And they learned a lot in the process that might not happen in the current way they're treated and conditioned. Gia, this is something about which we totally agree! Oh, wow! Now that is huge. I feel like we should celebrate or something.   |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 2:42:11 GMT
Maybe what you can say is to explain the difference. Put it into words for those of us who understand that an AR-15 only shoots one bullet per trigger pull, exactly as a handgun works. What IS the difference? If you really want to push that narrative, you need to explain it instead of just posting a cliched put down. We'll leave aside differences in magazine size (both standard and easily available modified) which can impact the ability to successfully stop a shooter) and just stick to physics: www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/As was stated below the article, the damage described in the article is caused by the bullet. That same bullet can be used in many other rifles that aren't being championed for a ban. So you ban the AR15 and leave all the ones deemed "acceptable" for people to have and use and you still have the capability of a deranged person to inflict the same damage you thought you legislated away. Now what do we do? |
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Post by 50offscrapper on Feb 16, 2018 2:51:58 GMT
Am I allowed to participate on this thread civilly? First of all I am a born again Evangelical Christian who reads, studies and teaches the Bible. A former Republican now as of this election. What I struggle with every day is now Evangelicals support a man like Trump. I am cool with people who voted for Trump, but I am not cool about the “defense” of Trump by Evangelicals. I am not cool with Trump is doing to this country. I spend hours reading and dissecting things. For example, I always try and read the Republican platform. It has always supported Ukraine on the platform, then all of a sudden it was gone. It was removed during the Republican convention by Trump/Trump’s team. Why? And the lies.... even lies on things that can be checked began and have continued. I have so much more to share and will if I am allowed. Am I allowed? Of course you're allowed to participate. There seems to be, IMO at least, a misunderstanding of what this thread is about. I see this thread as a place to exchange thoughts, beliefs, ideas, etc. without being criticized, ridiculed, and belittled for having a different opinion. Not everyone is going to agree on things (how boring if we did  ). It's how people talk to and treat those that disagree that has become a big problem here. My hope is if people know they'll be treated respectfully here, more will participate.  Since I'm an atheist, I'm not in a position to wade into the religious questions in your post. Hopefully you'll get some that will. However, what I bolded above: I see a lot of comments similar to yours (used to be Republican but not now). I don't quite know how to word this...there are some pretty big fundamental differences between the two parties. If you don't consider yourself a Republican now, is it because your position has changed and you truly lean more left now, or is it specifically Trump's behavior? Does that make sense? I consider myself a moderate. I've voted for both parties over the years, because I'm not hard core for either party. I tend to lean towards candidates that are more in the middle. I've got a big issue with the democratic party platform right now (as I see it) and I'm already starting to dread the next presidential election, lol. My ideas haven't changed. The party I believed in changed. They used to believe in fiscal responsibility. They don't anymore. Just take a look at the deficits now. And before anyone tells me about the deficits during Obama's tenure, that is not what are discussing. We are discussing the now. Second, the party of "values" seems to no longer have any values. (Not that I thought the Democrats didn't have any.) The GOP has sold their soul to Trump and what was once shunned is now permitted as long as they can keep him President to do their bidding. Why do you think so many GOPers are retiring? They want to speak their minds without having to worry about getting re-elected. Our primary system is too blame. The extreme right controls the GOP primary and the extreme left the Democrats primary. That is our problem. I always remember someone saying once that when we have a Republican president we should elect a Democratic congress and vice-versa. That creates gridlock you say. Exactly! We need to go back to 60 votes for any legislation to pass no matter who the president is. 60 votes for any confirmation of judges, cabinet members, etc. |
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Post by 50offscrapper on Feb 16, 2018 3:03:14 GMT
Not necessarily. This is why we have to reframe our thinking. These types of options when you apply technology and scale, can actually create more efficiency, less overall food waste and savings. Can you explain more of your thinking about this? Because the distribution seems to be bound to cost an enormous amount of money in my mind. I see 2 options---the food is delivered or people have to come to a distribution center to obtain it. The government would have to buy, build, or lease buildings to distribute food from, plus hire employees to run it. If they go the delivery route, then obviously there are the delivery costs. The current benefits have none of those costs and I just don't see how the savings in food costs would offset the distribution costs, particularly due to the enormous scale of this project. So I am seeing the scale as being too costly while you see it as a savings, and I am very curious about that. I agree with you! I would ask what people are we trying to fix exactly? If it's fraud, not sure any of these "boxes" will fix it either. I think we are focused on the poor when we should work on defense contractors overbilling or heck just check the governments cost of their phone service. If any of you know have ever had to check a telecom vendors phone bill for a large business, you know exactly what I am talking about. Telecom providers bills are such a nightmare that there are companies out there whose sold business is to figure out what the actual bill is. Second, we could save a lot of money refreshing the government old technology. I bet they are paying more in maintenance contracts than they would if they refreshed their technology. I think we could save a lot of money in revamping Congress's benefits and "retirement" benefits. So, why is there focus on the poor? Why not on the multiple LLC's that funnel money from one entity to another to avoid paying taxes. Yes, it's legal but really. Guarantee we would save more money there. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 16, 2018 3:12:24 GMT
We'll leave aside differences in magazine size (both standard and easily available modified) which can impact the ability to successfully stop a shooter) and just stick to physics: www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/As was stated below the article, the damage described in the article is caused by the bullet. That same bullet can be used in many other rifles that aren't being championed for a ban. So you ban the AR15 and leave all the ones deemed "acceptable" for people to have and use and you still have the capability of a deranged person to inflict the same damage you thought you legislated away. Now what do we do? So you want to completely ignore your question on how an AR15 is different than a handgun and talk about rifles as you didn't like my factual response. Others may play, not me. |
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Post by redhead32 on Feb 16, 2018 4:27:04 GMT
Are you advocating "punishing" someone for something they might do? I don't think anyone will dispute this shooter was on a lot of radars. What does that even mean? Identifying potential problems is a start but not a solution. Society identified this shooter. It didn't stop anything because all of that identification still didn't stop him from accessing guns. Doesn't it make more sense to limit gun access? I actually don't think I said that. I think we need to address the mental health issues in this country. But not limit gun access? |
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Post by megop on Feb 16, 2018 6:02:35 GMT
Can you explain more of your thinking about this? Because the distribution seems to be bound to cost an enormous amount of money in my mind. I see 2 options---the food is delivered or people have to come to a distribution center to obtain it. The government would have to buy, build, or lease buildings to distribute food from, plus hire employees to run it. If they go the delivery route, then obviously there are the delivery costs. The current benefits have none of those costs and I just don't see how the savings in food costs would offset the distribution costs, particularly due to the enormous scale of this project. So I am seeing the scale as being too costly while you see it as a savings, and I am very curious about that. I agree with you! I would ask what people are we trying to fix exactly? If it's fraud, not sure any of these "boxes" will fix it either. I think we are focused on the poor when we should work on defense contractors overbilling or heck just check the governments cost of their phone service. If any of you know have ever had to check a telecom vendors phone bill for a large business, you know exactly what I am talking about. Telecom providers bills are such a nightmare that there are companies out there whose sold business is to figure out what the actual bill is. Second, we could save a lot of money refreshing the government old technology. I bet they are paying more in maintenance contracts than they would if they refreshed their technology. I think we could save a lot of money in revamping Congress's benefits and "retirement" benefits. So, why is there focus on the poor? Why not on the multiple LLC's that funnel money from one entity to another to avoid paying taxes. Yes, it's legal but really. Guarantee we would save more money there. Happy to explain. As more and more brick and mortar entities close within the retail space due to online shopping, doesn't it make a bit of logical sense that this will also begin to happen in food delivery? And when you say the current delivery has none of those costs, they most certainly do. Apply the thought process in say a comparison of Fed Ex vs. USPS. Setting up this structure doesn't necessarily mean it is a totally government run structure. There are existing distribution channels - even a hybrid mix between non-profit/for-profit that could actually work better with less cost. Does that help? ETA: Fraud is not even on my radar with my thought process. Again, further up in this thread I stated if it is a one-size-fits all type thing it will be a dismal fail. My personal stance on the "idea" of this absolutely comes from the perspective of exploring eventual better, more convenient delivery to persons who aren't food safe and face a myriad of issues in food deserts and transportation access. My goal in even talking about this within this thread was to present the idea that we must all think outside the box to find tomorrow's answers. |
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Post by 50offscrapper on Feb 16, 2018 6:21:52 GMT
Happy to explain. As more and more brick and mortar entities close within the retail space due to online shopping, doesn't it make a bit of logical sense that this will also begin to happen in food delivery? And when you say the current delivery has none of those costs, they most certainly do. Apply the thought process in say a comparison of Fed Ex vs. USPS. Setting up this structure doesn't necessarily mean it is a totally government run structure. There are existing distribution channels - even a hybrid mix between non-profit/for-profit that could actually work better with less cost. Does that help? ETA: Fraud is not even on my radar with my thought process. Again, further up in this thread I stated if it is a one-size-fits all type thing it will be a dismal fail. My personal stance on the "idea" of this absolutely comes from the perspective of exploring eventual better, more convenient delivery to persons who aren't food safe and face a myriad of issues in food deserts and transportation access. My goal in even talking about this within this thread was to present the idea that we must all think outside the box to find tomorrow's answers. If that is the case then don't you think the private sector, ie Walmart and Amazon will decide to take whatever payment for food that people use at the store online. Heck, they might already. I don't know. If ordering online is the case, why can't people place their food order with the food they want at the grocer that they chose. No different logically than people wanting to pick their own doctor. The GOP has argued over and over about people losing the choice of their doctor, but now want to limit the people wanting to pick their grocer. Creating a separate government entity to select, store and distribute makes no sense. Remember it has taken Amazon years and years to be profitable. www.forbes.com/sites/jonmarkman/2017/05/23/the-amazon-era-no-profits-no-problem/#5c5409a6437a So, I honestly don't think that this box idea would be cheaper than what people can get at Walmart. |
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It's for respectful discussion back and forth. and on the whole, so far that is the case! 
). It's how people talk to and treat those that disagree that has become a big problem here. My hope is if people know they'll be treated respectfully here, more will participate. 
