Presidential Money Laundering

Yes!

Whilst I don't think he himself directly colluded with Russia to win the election I have no doubt that he and his family within his worldwide businesses has, and is, involved with money laundering. I also think that he and others around him have been involved with breaking the sanctions that are in place, be they US or UN sanctions. Whether he himself did this innocently by being naive of how these things work or did it because it benefited him ( which is more likely) will probably come out in Muller's investigation I guess.

I find it difficult to believe that he would be totally innocent of either. With all his years of experience in business, as he frequently remind everyone, he must have known or at least someone would have pointed it out to him, that what he was doing wasn't above board.

I agree with the above!

While I don’t believe at this moment that HE outright colluded to win the election I think that many of his surrogates did everything they could to connect with Russia.

His own son agreed to AND DID meet with agents of Russia in hopes of obtaining (and for who knows at what price???—cash, favors if Trump was elected).

Kushner attempted to create back channel communications with Russia outside of the normal.

There have been many proven instances where Team Trump has out right lied about meeting with Russians, and then pulled the “oh I forgot, and the “ I don’t recall” bullcrap.

Trump himself has not show tax returns and has attempted from the get go to stop the investigation.

Congress voted almost unanimously to have sanctions against Russia, Trump rejected it.

Everything has been HRC, Democrats, Obama’s fault. (All smoke and mirror distractions)

I fully believe that we may find out that he might not have colluded with Russia to win the election, HOWEVER now that we KNOW FOR A FACT that Russia DID interfere to keep anyone but Trump from winning, but we will discover that trump is now indebted and beholden to Putin.

I think we will also see the impact the “favors” Trump grants to Russia and other countries not normally in good graces will be in windfall business for Trump after he leaves the WH.

I don't even think it's hidden.  I don't think there are many people who have taken note of his business dealings and not thought there was money laundering involved.

You’re probably not wrong!

Given the snide, snarky comments about “the left” regarding this topic on the new “Conservative Catch -all” thread, I think those on the right won’t be changing their tune even if evidence shows it to be true, and facts be damned. As long as they get what they want—cuts to the lazy welfare people, massive cuts to any social services, repeal the ACA, banish protections for LBGTQ, sexual assault victims, schools and children and let the always morally superior religious right to impose (force) their religion down everyone’s throats, hey they’ll vote for it and support it!

I say we let them vent and enjoy on the Conservative thread. I used to be a Conversative, well, more like Conservative to Independent to I will never vote Republican again after the GOP & Trump have behaved so badly. But I still think we can manage our money better AND take care of our citizens AND be a nation of immigrants that welcomes dreamers.

A friend posted this on her social media. It was written by someone else, but I agree with it. I wish my Conservative friends & family could understand and honestly, those that also couldn't vote for Trump, can. It's the Trump supporters that, at this point, I take serious issue with. Anyway:

"I would like all of my right wing, conservative friends and family members to read the following. It explains my beliefs in a nutshell. I borrowed this from my buddy Barry Pearl, who borrowed this from another friend. I recently found out that the original author is LORI GALLAGHER WITT.This explains my views in an even tempered, logical way.

Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: Not every Liberal is the same, though the majority of Liberals I know think along roughly these same lines:

“1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. Period.

2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Somehow that's interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen.

3. I believe education should be affordable and accessible to everyone. It doesn't necessarily have to be free (though it works in other countries so I'm mystified as to why it can't work in the US), but at the end of the day, there is no excuse for students graduating college saddled with five- or six-figure debt.

4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist.

5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. I'm retired and on a fixed income, but I still pay taxes. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare.

6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live.

7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine.

8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you.

9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I'm not opposed to deporting people who are here illegally, but I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc).

10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.

11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past.

12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized.

13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is sensible policies, including background checks, that just MIGHT save one person’s, perhaps a toddler’s, life by the hand of someone who should not have a gun. (Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine).

14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person?

15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else.

16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be?

I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.”

I saw that on FB and absolutely love it.


I do wonder if there's anything that Trump could do, at this point, or anything that he did in the past, that could affect the support from his base. If it comes out that he directly colluded with the Russians (and I doubt he did directly), they would say that is a lie. If there were recordings, they would say that they are doctored. If there are documents, those are then obviously fake.

I feel at times that we have reached a horrible point of no return and disbelief in anything logical, scientific or factual if those facts do not match our beliefs. Critical thinking is absent from far too many.

I don't know if that will make a bit of difference to his supporters. After all, none of the immoral, unethical or lying things he's done in the past have changed their minds.

As for me, I've been saying all along. It cemented for me with his actions regarding this memo, which seem more desperate than past things he's done.

Note: I am not calling out conservatives with my statements, just Trump supporters. Most conservatives in my life are very compassionate, thoughtful, and smart.

Oh I totally love that they have their own vent thread! Now, maybe we can have discussions without being gaslighted, belittled, and the sanctimonious crapola!!!

I found it funny that there was the usual liberal pea bashing, despite their holier than though “we’re better than you nasty, hateful liberals”!!! the irony!!! It validated many things that liberals have pointed out about the right bashing liberals, but were shushed on. But truly glad to see it, so we can hopefully discuss our concerns and fears without the threads being deflected and redirected.


The Facebook list is awesome thanks for sharing here!

Everything listed—YES, yes, and YES!!!

I sincerely hope not for the simple fact of presidents holding the highest of clearances.

If a regular federal employee cannot be allowed to hold clearances because their credit score is too low (only example that’s coming to me now) or a myriad of other reasons, the same rules should apply to the president. I can’t imagine simply holding the title of president would allow you to sidestep all the security clearance rules and regulations.

Edited to add the part that was cut off—-


Reaching People Who No Longer Value the Truth
JUNE 12, 2017 / JOHN PAVLOVITZ


I think that, sadly, is truth.


“
Remember Jerry, it’s not a lie—if you believe it. – George Costanza

They say that the truth hurts. I’m inclined to agree.

When trying to reach another person across a divide of disagreement, it’s really difficult to compete with a firmly planted and fully thriving lie—in fact it’s virtually impossible.

In the turbulent days in which we find ourselves, our most formidable adversary is not the one who is most intelligent, cunning, or even immoral—it is the person who no longer has need of the truth; who ceases to be burdened by the existence or veracity of data in order to believe what they believe.

When someone has reached this place of delusion, their only pressing commitment is preserving the myth they’ve told themselves—and so their minds for all practical purposes are rendered nearly unchangeable.

To reach a different conclusion would involve them rewriting the false story they’ve already convinced themselves of and vigorously defended, sometimes for years.

To consider another alternative becomes a threat to their very identity—and so rather than arguing with one’s own mind, the much less complicated or time-consuming task is to simply tell it what it wants to hear regardless of whether or not it is real.

The person who has discarded truth is insulated from rationality. He or she will not respond to the presence of a cogent argument or the proffering of measurable facts.
Any information not corresponding to the narrative they’ve predetermined will be immediately labeled “fake news” and quickly rejected.

You cannot win a debate with such a person, you cannot craft compromise with them, and you cannot appeal to reason—unless you are too are willing to concede to fantasy in order to reach them where they are, and this is a steep and slippery slope.

When we encounter someone whose opinion doesn’t match our own, there is great wisdom in seeking to understand the other person; attempting to see the matter from behind their eyes. But when this conclusion is reached based on fraudulent information, when he or she refuses to weigh the evidence at hand, when they chose simply to adopt the perspective of least resistance, this can be an impossibility.

Yesterday I was speaking with a woman named Tammy. She was reiterating a well-traveled talking point from a partisan news show about the dangers of Muslims in America. I asked Tammy to take a look at a couple of well-researched articles by major newspapers, and to compare the numbers there with her perception. “Pshht!” she blurted out, rolling her eyes, “I’m not interested in fake news!” Tammy had no desire to engage information or to entertain the possibility of contrary evidence. It was much easier to devalue that information and dismiss it out of hand.

This is the FoxNews Effect on America. The network, along with both extremist poles of social media have done their most cancerous work by making critical thinking irrelevant, by counting on a populace with a low threshold for information fatigue, and by exploiting people’s vulnerability to intellectual ear candy. They understand that once they craft a story in the head of another human being, they only need to provide confirmation of that story; to reassure them that whatever lie they’ve embraced is true. After a short time, facts are not at all necessary to sustain believability—only the words themselves.

And so we’re faced with the task of wrestling with some really gut-wrenching questions today:

How do we teach our children to treasure honesty, when for so many people they encounter, fundamental reality is up for debate?

How do we who claim Christianity affirm our faith tradition’s call to truthfulness, when an increasing number of those representing that tradition are no longer interested in it?

How do we engage people standing opposite from us on an issue—when they no longer seem to value, desire, or entertain factual information?

What does a country become when its leaders, responsible for stewarding reality in times of adversity and matters of great consequence—have no use for it?

How does America endure a President who is allergic to reality and fluent in untruth?

The answer isn’t in abandoning the truth ourselves. In fact, these days require us to be a people who guard it more fiercely than ever; to keep seeking to know what is real, and to speak those things loudly and repeatedly in the hopes they will find fertile ground, even in the hardest of hearts.

The answer is to raise children who believe honesty and integrity to be the bedrock of our humanity. I want to believe all people can be reached, that there can be a place of common understanding in which to begin brokering compromise, even across the most vast of spaces.

I wake up every day seeking to do this work, but with far too many of those in my neighborhood, in my family, and on my timeline—it is getting more and more difficult not to conclude that it is a fruitless endeavor.

I’m afraid that reaching them may never again be an option—and that the only hope going forward may be to outnumber them.

This may be the truth that hurts the most.”

Probably another reason why he would never share his tax returns.

  I too, don't think/not sure trump thought "Hey, I will collude with the Russians" (etc).  I DO think that he has no regard for "the rules" and thinks they do not apply to him. 

He has been like that in his business life forever.  Now unfortunately (for us and him) he has the 'wider audience' that he has always desired but  with that more attention comes more scrutiny.  It is affecting more people (all of us) not just those in his immediate business world circle.  It will probably (hopefully) not be the attention he likes as he is being questioned and called out- as any civil servant should be.  (as I type out civil SERVANT I am aware how he would cringe at that word)  People are not just looking the other way and letting him skate and get away with all he has in private business life.  

Hopefully, in his new life, the rules will apply and have consequences. Not soon enough for me.

I also hope that Pence and Ryan go down too. I'm sure they know more than they are willing to admit.

If the Dems get a majority in Nov. I pray they start impeachment processes.