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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 17, 2018 15:43:53 GMT
Good Lord. "Animals" was in reference to MS-13. I know so many love the Lawrence O'Donnell/Joy Reid/Rachel Maddow/MSNBC narrative that MS-13 is no big deal, they're just good boys that want a better life, they come here to work those jobs no American wants, blah blah blah. I'm sure many also love they don't use guns, yet ignore they use machetes to hack up their victims, and y'all ignore the fact they recruit young kids.
He didn't say ALL immigrants are animals. Give the entire story and context. How disingenuous.
hmmm, that's weird. I watch lots of MSNBC, and I've never heard any of their people be dismissive of the brutality and violence of MS-13. I must be watching at the wrong hours or something. She’s just making up shit to get a rise out of people. Notice how a few of the conservatives will post here to only smack, snark, and just be bitchy—they must be bored on their thread. I’ve never once heard any of the news sources she’s listed glorify the MS-13 gangs. And actually putting the entire conversation “in context” like she suggests only confirms that trump is an asshole. There have been several people locally who were deported—aggressively—who have been here half their lives, were beacons in the community, business owners who generated jobs for their local communities. In the context of trumps response, he’s indicating that they are animals too. The big picture? trump himself wants immigrants gone—he has said as much, over and over again. Funny how those who attempt to defend him forget that he’s said that. 😆
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 17, 2018 15:49:26 GMT
And while on the “I don’t post only part of the convo” bullcrap...(because yes, you have)
“Trump: "We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in — and we're stopping a lot of them — but we're taking people out of the country. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals. And we're taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that's never happened before. And because of the weak laws, they come in fast, we get them, we release them, we get them again, we bring them out. It's crazy.”
He is NOT EXCLUSIVELY SPEAKING ABOUT MS-13.
It is VERY irresponsible for you to post that he his.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 17, 2018 15:49:57 GMT
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 17, 2018 16:00:28 GMT
It cracks me up that trumps defenders will go as far as they do to insist “what they though he said/meant” when there is no clear evidence to support their claims, yet go all batshit “good grief” on those who post what he actually said, and where the evidence—trumps own continued comments on immigrants, his fucking wall, and his actions certainly weighs in as trump being a xenophobic immigrant eradicating asshole.
He thinks of immigrants (legal or NOT) as lesser, inferior, dirty disgusting human beings.
History shows us that time and time again. Trump tells us so.
It’s high time his supporters and defenders get off their high horses, accept those facts and stop harassing and attacking those who are posting what the dickhead actually says and does.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on May 17, 2018 16:13:09 GMT
Even if he was referring to MS-13 members, they are not animals.
Their behavior may be horrific - but they are human beings.
Saying that they are animals does two things: it dehumanizes them, making it easier to justify treating them as animals - vermin to be eradicated, etc. But it also makes it easy to say "they're not people, because people don't do these bad things. Only animals do these bad things. I'm not like them, I am a person and will never do bad because I'm not an animal like those others."
People do evil things. Animals don't. People believe bad things, and treat others poorly. People made the concentration camps. People ran the pogroms. People torture other people. Not animals. People.
Evil is something that exists - and people are susceptible to it. The people of Germany were just regular people, until they had a leader who sold them the idea that it was OK to round up other people. Did the people of Germany who helped round up their fellow citizens become animals, or were they people doing evil things?
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surf75
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Jun 26, 2014 1:30:17 GMT
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Post by surf75 on May 17, 2018 17:22:58 GMT
These three tweets from trump are exactly why he should have never been elected president. “Congratulations America, we are now into the second year of the greatest Witch Hunt in American History...and there is still No Collusion and No Obstruction. The only Collusion was that done by Democrats who were unable to win an Election despite the spending of far more money!” “Wow, word seems to be coming out that the Obama FBI “SPIED ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WITH AN EMBEDDED INFORMANT.” Andrew McCarthy says, “There’s probably no doubt that they had at least one confidential informant in the campaign.” If so, this is bigger than Watergate!” “Despite the disgusting, illegal and unwarranted Witch Hunt, we have had the most successful first 17 month Administration in U.S. history - by far! Sorry to the Fake News Media and “Haters,” but that’s the way it is!” I totally agree. The crap that the Obama administration did spying on an opposing political campaign is disgusting. You were referring to Obama, right?
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Post by Merge on May 17, 2018 17:33:03 GMT
These three tweets from trump are exactly why he should have never been elected president. “Congratulations America, we are now into the second year of the greatest Witch Hunt in American History...and there is still No Collusion and No Obstruction. The only Collusion was that done by Democrats who were unable to win an Election despite the spending of far more money!” “Wow, word seems to be coming out that the Obama FBI “SPIED ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WITH AN EMBEDDED INFORMANT.” Andrew McCarthy says, “There’s probably no doubt that they had at least one confidential informant in the campaign.” If so, this is bigger than Watergate!” “Despite the disgusting, illegal and unwarranted Witch Hunt, we have had the most successful first 17 month Administration in U.S. history - by far! Sorry to the Fake News Media and “Haters,” but that’s the way it is!” I totally agree. The crap that the Obama administration did spying on an opposing political campaign is disgusting. You were referring to Obama, right? You know Trump is just making stuff up, right? Neither you nor he nor anyone has any basis for what he says.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 17:35:09 GMT
These three tweets from trump are exactly why he should have never been elected president. “Congratulations America, we are now into the second year of the greatest Witch Hunt in American History...and there is still No Collusion and No Obstruction. The only Collusion was that done by Democrats who were unable to win an Election despite the spending of far more money!” “Wow, word seems to be coming out that the Obama FBI “SPIED ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WITH AN EMBEDDED INFORMANT.” Andrew McCarthy says, “There’s probably no doubt that they had at least one confidential informant in the campaign.” If so, this is bigger than Watergate!” “Despite the disgusting, illegal and unwarranted Witch Hunt, we have had the most successful first 17 month Administration in U.S. history - by far! Sorry to the Fake News Media and “Haters,” but that’s the way it is!” I totally agree. The crap that the Obama administration did spying on an opposing political campaign is disgusting. You were referring to Obama, right? Show us the proof. Otherwise you are just spreading misinformation.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 17:36:45 GMT
hmmm, that's weird. I watch lots of MSNBC, and I've never heard any of their people be dismissive of the brutality and violence of MS-13. I must be watching at the wrong hours or something. She’s just making up shit to get a rise out of people. Notice how a few of the conservatives will post here to only smack, snark, and just be bitchy—they must be bored on their thread. I’ve never once heard any of the news sources she’s listed glorify the MS-13 gangs. And actually putting the entire conversation “in context” like she suggests only confirms that trump is an asshole. There have been several people locally who were deported—aggressively—who have been here half their lives, were beacons in the community, business owners who generated jobs for their local communities. In the context of trumps response, he’s indicating that they are animals too. The big picture? trump himself wants immigrants gone—he has said as much, over and over again. Funny how those who attempt to defend him forget that he’s said that. 😆 Ummm, I never said any news source "glorified" MS-13. And Trump never said ALL immigrants were animals.
I acknowledge there are a lot of people that come here for good reasons, and not all are bad. Will anyone acknowledge that a lot of people that get in here aren't upstanding good people, and are not all good?
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Post by slkone on May 17, 2018 17:42:13 GMT
I totally agree. The crap that the Obama administration did spying on an opposing political campaign is disgusting. You were referring to Obama, right? Show us the proof. Otherwise you are just spreading misinformation. Now, @fred, don't you remember? Obama bugged Trump Tower by putting listening devices in the microwaves!!!!!!1!!!111!
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Post by thundergal on May 17, 2018 17:44:25 GMT
You know Trump is just making stuff up, right? Neither you nor he nor anyone has any basis for what he says. People who believe that know nothing about facts. It's terrifying. I was going to say it feels like we elected a Kardashian to lead the country but JFC, I don't imagine those dimwits would lie and deceive and gaslight like this f%cker and his staff are willing to.
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Post by Merge on May 17, 2018 18:02:11 GMT
This article about the origins of the Trump/Russia campaign is an interesting read. Some pull-out quotes: Takeaway: this investigation, in contrast to the Clinton investigation, was conducted with the utmost secrecy to avoid tainting the Trump campaign or the outcome of the election. Does this sound like an anti-Trump "witch hunt" to anyone? But still ... Translation: Thing I made up, thing I made up, and gloating that I've been able to convince my supporters of the things I made up. The article is too long to post in its entirety here, but I think it's a pretty even-handed account of the history of this investigation. I hope anyone who believe Trump's assertions takes this into consideration.
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Post by hop2 on May 17, 2018 18:11:41 GMT
You know Trump is just making stuff up, right? Neither you nor he nor anyone has any basis for what he says. People who believe that know nothing about facts. It's terrifying. I was going to say it feels like we elected a Kardashian to lead the country but JFC, I don't imagine those dimwits would lie and deceive and gaslight like this f%cker and his staff are willing to. ? Believe that he’s lying or believe what he says? I’m confused and it may be my fault because I’m tired.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 17, 2018 18:16:10 GMT
She’s just making up shit to get a rise out of people. Notice how a few of the conservatives will post here to only smack, snark, and just be bitchy—they must be bored on their thread. I’ve never once heard any of the news sources she’s listed glorify the MS-13 gangs. And actually putting the entire conversation “in context” like she suggests only confirms that trump is an asshole. There have been several people locally who were deported—aggressively—who have been here half their lives, were beacons in the community, business owners who generated jobs for their local communities. In the context of trumps response, he’s indicating that they are animals too. The big picture? trump himself wants immigrants gone—he has said as much, over and over again. Funny how those who attempt to defend him forget that he’s said that. 😆 Ummm, I never said any news source "glorified" MS-13. And Trump never said ALL immigrants were animals.
I acknowledge there are a lot of people that come here for good reasons, and not all are bad. Will anyone acknowledge that a lot of people that get in here aren't upstanding good people, and are not all good?
They have and do. You & others chose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your liberal bashing bullcrap. (And I solely base that assessment on your first post on this thread). You come out swinging, make untrue and inflammatory statements solely to put down liberal minded people here.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 18:30:19 GMT
Ummm, I never said any news source "glorified" MS-13. And Trump never said ALL immigrants were animals.
I acknowledge there are a lot of people that come here for good reasons, and not all are bad. Will anyone acknowledge that a lot of people that get in here aren't upstanding good people, and are not all good?
They have and do. You & others chose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your liberal bashing bullcrap. (And I solely base that assessment on your first post on this thread). You come out swinging, make untrue and inflammatory statements solely to put down liberal minded people here. Oh, well that's good to know then. Can't say I've personally seen it. Since I was responding to those tweets shared here, which were incomplete of the full story, I guess I'll take your word for it.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 17, 2018 19:18:01 GMT
They have and do. You & others chose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your liberal bashing bullcrap. (And I solely base that assessment on your first post on this thread). You come out swinging, make untrue and inflammatory statements solely to put down liberal minded people here. Oh, well that's good to know then. Can't say I've personally seen it. Since I was responding to those tweets shared here, which were incomplete of the full story, I guess I'll take your word for it. Just as your story wasn’t complete, and your assumptions off base, which is why I posted what I have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 19:20:46 GMT
Paul Waldman.....
“A note to those saying Mueller's investigation, at one year in, has gone on too long:
The first Whitewater independent counsel was appointed in January 1994.
The third Whitewater IC brought the investigation to a close in September 2000, 6 years and 9 months later.”
And all they got for it was Bill Clinton lying about sex in the Oval Office under oath. Some ,at the time, said that question or line of questions was a set-up because they were pretty sure Bubba would lie. And he did.
Something married men do all the time when asked if they had sex with another woman. All you have to do is look at the current occupant of the Oval Office.
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Post by Merge on May 17, 2018 19:47:57 GMT
Paul Waldman..... “A note to those saying Mueller's investigation, at one year in, has gone on too long: The first Whitewater independent counsel was appointed in January 1994. The third Whitewater IC brought the investigation to a close in September 2000, 6 years and 9 months later.” And all they got for it was Bill Clinton lying about sex in the Oval Office under oath. Some ,at the time, said that question or line of questions was a set-up because they were pretty sure Bubba would lie. And he did. Something married men do all the time when asked if they had sex with another woman. All you have to do is look at the current occupant of the Oval Office. And that's why Trump's lawyers will never let him talk to Mueller or give any statements under oath. Whatever else he may or may not be guilty of, they'd get him for lying just like they got Bill Clinton. Trump wouldn't be able to help himself - and not just on the subject of who he slept with.
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Post by Skellinton on May 17, 2018 19:53:41 GMT
Paul Waldman..... “A note to those saying Mueller's investigation, at one year in, has gone on too long: The first Whitewater independent counsel was appointed in January 1994. The third Whitewater IC brought the investigation to a close in September 2000, 6 years and 9 months later.” And all they got for it was Bill Clinton lying about sex in the Oval Office under oath. Some ,at the time, said that question or line of questions was a set-up because they were pretty sure Bubba would lie. And he did. Something married men do all the time when asked if they had sex with another woman. All you have to do is look at the current occupant of the Oval Office. It drives me nuts that people keep saying that couldn’t possibly be anything to the investigation since it has been going on a year and nothing has been proven. First off, there have been several indictments. Second, maybe it is taking so long because there is so freaking much to unravel. In any event, there is likely an obscene amount of paperwork to go through, that is going to take time and I bet the longer it takes the more likely it is that each pile of paperwork gone through is leading them to another new pile of paperwork to go through, and so on and so forth. If there was nothing to see they probably would have closed the investigation already. An investigation with this scope and magnitude is just going to take a lot of time, most criminal investigations do. I think the longer it goes on the more they are uncovering and the worse it is for Trump. In any event, if there is nothing for Trump to be hiding why does he care how long the investigation drags on? Is he being personally inconvenienced? Is Mueller ignoring more pressing matters? Is the investigation taking away some of Trump ‘s precious executive time? If he is innocent like he claims he should welcome a thorough investigation.
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Post by thundergal on May 17, 2018 20:07:43 GMT
It drives me nuts that people keep saying that couldn’t possibly be anything to the investigation since it has been going on a year and nothing has been proven. First off, there have been several indictments. Second, maybe it is taking so long because there is so freaking much to unravel. In any event, there is likely an obscene amount of paperwork to go through, that is going to take time and I bet the longer it takes the more likely it is that each pile of paperwork gone through is leading them to another new pile of paperwork to go through, and so on and so forth. If there was nothing to see they probably would have closed the investigation already. An investigation with this scope and magnitude is just going to take a lot of time, most criminal investigations do. I think the longer it goes on the more they are uncovering and the worse it is for Trump. In any event, if there is nothing for Trump to be hiding why does he care how long the investigation drags on? Is he being personally inconvenienced? Is Mueller ignoring more pressing matters? Is the investigation taking away some of Trump ‘s precious executive time? If he is innocent like he claims he should welcome a thorough investigation. ALLLL of this. And Alex van der Zwaan is serving a 30 day prison term as we speak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:30:20 GMT
Slate@samiam I don’t necessarily disagree with this comment you made.... “As for Trump's comments during that speech, what am I to say? Not everybody coming here has good intentions and in my opinion, when they come here and stay illegally, they're starting off on the wrong foot.” My problem with your last sentence ,while that is true, it takes two to tango. What I mean is the 1986 Immigration Reform Act had one very key provision that, for the most part, has been ignored since 1986. An important provision that if had been fully followed we would not have the mess we have today. In other words, it’s this country’s fault that we are where we are today. And it’s equal blame spread between both political parties. The provision I’m talking about is the one where all employers are required to verify that all employees are legally eligible to work in this country. If it’s found the employer did not verify this they are subject to jail time for up to 6 months and paying a fine for each undocumented worker they hire. Just think if that one provision had been fully enforced since 1986 where we would be today. So in some respects this country is just as responsible for the immigration problem as those who break the law by entering this country illegally. Don’t you think? And this country should take responsibility for our part in this mess when it comes to fixing it. Right? And there is a right way of fixing things and a wrong way. And when you read this article from Slate I would like to think you would agree with me this is the wrong way. That instead of ICE doing shit like this, they focus their efforts on influential employers, who to this day still knowingly hire undocumented workers. And I know where they can start. The large produce farms in the California‘s Central Valley who’s owners readily admit they hire undocumented workers. Of course a lot of them are trump supporters so that could prove to be a bit tricky for trump to see his rich supporters hauled off to jail in handcuffs for breaking immigration laws. But I would rather see that then read this from Slate ..... “Bad Liars”“ICE claimed a Dreamer was “gang-affiliated” and tried to deport him. A federal judge ruled that ICE was lying.” On Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Ricardo S. Martinez shot down the federal government’s efforts to strip Daniel Ramirez Medina of his DACA status. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement had arrested and detained Ramirez last year, then falsely claimed that he was affiliated with a gang and attempted to deport him. He filed suit, alleging that ICE had violated his due process rights. Martinez agreed. His order barred the federal government from voiding Ramirez’s DACA status, safeguarding his ability to live and work in the United States legally for the foreseeable future. What may be most remarkable about Martinez’s decision, though, is its blunt repudiation of ICE’s main claim—that Ramirez is “gang-affiliated.” The judge did not simply rule against ICE. He accused the agency of lying to a court of law. The facts of Ramirez’s case are extremely disturbing. In February 2017, shortly after President Donald Trump unleashed immigration agents to amp up arrests and deportations, ICE agents went to Ramirez’s father’s house in Seattle to arrest him. (The father is undocumented, and brought Ramirez to the U.S. illegally as a child.) While there, they encountered Ramirez and asked him whether he was “legally here.” He responded that he was—a truthful statement given his DACA status, which he had renewed the previous May. Yet ICE officers detained him anyway. They took him to a processing center, where, once again, he told them that he had a work permit. It doesn’t matter,” an agent responded, “because you weren’t born in this country.” ICE then interrogated Ramirez, fingerprinted and booked him, confiscated his work permit, sent him to a detention center, and placed him in removal proceedings. It also purported to revoke his DACA status, subjecting him to imminent deportation. Typically, the government may not rescind an individual’s DACA status without giving the beneficiary an opportunity to contest its decision. But ICE claimed that Ramirez’s DACA benefits could be terminated “automatically” because he presented an “egregious public safety concern” due to his alleged gang affiliation. (ICE routinely alleges that Latino immigrants with no indication of gang affiliation are members of a gang in order to detain and deport them.) A group of renowned attorneys then stepped in to defend Ramirez, arguing that virtually every action ICE had taken against their client was unlawful. They also alleged that ICE’s key claim—that Ramirez is “gang-affiliated”—was a complete falsehood. One of his lawyers, Mark Rosenbaum, presented evidence indicating that ICE had doctored Ramirez’s statement by erasing words he had written in the pencil provided to make it seem as if he had confessed to being in a gang. ( The original statement asserts he has no gang affiliation.) During his initial interrogation, ICE officers asked him five times whether he belonged to a gang, and he repeatedly said no. Instead, he asserted that he had “fled California [to Washington] to escape from the gangs.” There was no reason to doubt Ramirez’s story, and good reason to believe it. If he had been in a gang, after all, the government would’ve already known. To renew his DACA status, Ramirez had to undergo two thorough background checks. Neither turned up any evidence of gang affiliation.“
There is more to the article but @samiam do you think this is the right way to handle the mess we are just as responsible for as the folks that came here illegally? Should not ICE Agents be going after influential employers who knowingly have hired undocumented workers for decades? Wouldn’t that send a strong message to anyone who is thinking of entering this country illegally looking for work and to those employers, big and small, who knowingly hire undocumented workers as well as the ones who don’t verify the potential workers legal status? I know there is a better way of handling this in a more humane compassionate way for the folks here, that are not in gangs or commit serious crimes, as well as meeting the needs of produce farmers, among others, that can’t find “born in the USA” workers to do work no one else wants to do. And trump’s way is not it.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:33:53 GMT
Paul Waldman..... “A note to those saying Mueller's investigation, at one year in, has gone on too long: The first Whitewater independent counsel was appointed in January 1994. The third Whitewater IC brought the investigation to a close in September 2000, 6 years and 9 months later.” And all they got for it was Bill Clinton lying about sex in the Oval Office under oath. Some ,at the time, said that question or line of questions was a set-up because they were pretty sure Bubba would lie. And he did. Something married men do all the time when asked if they had sex with another woman. All you have to do is look at the current occupant of the Oval Office. And that's why Trump's lawyers will never let him talk to Mueller or give any statements under oath. Whatever else he may or may not be guilty of, they'd get him for lying just like they got Bill Clinton. Trump wouldn't be able to help himself - and not just on the subject of who he slept with. Especially trump. 😀
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:38:32 GMT
link Kyle Griffin.... “General Motors is cutting its second shift at the Lordstown Assembly plant outside of Youngtown, Ohio, next month. The move could cost 1,500 jobs. This is in the heart of the Mahoning Valley, long a Democratic stronghold that broke toward Trump in 2016.” Dare I say elections have consequences because surely this is not how you #MAGA.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:45:42 GMT
linkI’m thinking this isn’t how you #MAGA either. From The Hill... “China buys record amount of Russian soybeans after canceling US orders over Trump threats hill.cm/qkbs6G6”
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 21:22:18 GMT
The Hill...
“Kellyanne Conway: Trump owed an apology after criticism from calling some immigrants "animals" hill.cm/gm2XLzI”
And when is trump going to apologize to President Obama for “the birther “ conspiracy he kept going for years?
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 17, 2018 21:29:44 GMT
“Kellyanne Conway: Trump owed an apology after criticism from calling some immigrants "animals" she's saying he should apologize for his remark (which I wholeheartedly agree with)? or that someone should apologize to him? (you never know, with her...)
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Post by andreasmom on May 17, 2018 21:35:30 GMT
“Kellyanne Conway: Trump owed an apology after criticism from calling some immigrants "animals" she's saying he should apologize for his remark (which I wholeheartedly agree with)? or that someone should apologize to him? (you never know, with her...) I think she means 45 is owed an apology after all the criticism he has received from that comment. He won’t get one from me. No one deserves to be stripped of their human dignity (Catholic point of view).
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 21:35:41 GMT
Reuters...
“Exclusive: Manafort's former son-in-law cuts plea deal, to cooperate with government - sources reut.rs/2Ky3V2B”
Oh. This could get real interesting.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 23:49:22 GMT
The Hill....
“Poll: Just 13 percent of Americans consider Trump honest and trustworthy”
Gosh I wonder if this is a tweet that trump will re-tweet this poll? . 😃
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 20:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 0:32:33 GMT
Kyle Griffin....
“Michael Cohen has confided in friends, “I just can’t take this anymore.”
🎻
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