Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:33:26 GMT
"For years a small but vocal minority of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men have demanded that airlines not seat them next to female passengers, citing religious modesty. And for years El Al, Israel’s national airline, has accommodated them by asking women to relocate to another seat on the plane. No longer, according to an airline official. “Any passengers refusing to sit next to other passengers will immediately be removed from the aircraft,” El Al Chairman Gonen Usishkin announced Monday (June 25)." religionnews.com/2018/06/26/el-al-vows-to-end-practice-of-moving-women-to-accommodate-ultra-orthodox/About freaking time! You have a problem sitting next to women on a plane? I suggest you find alternative means of transport. |
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Post by lesley on Jul 3, 2018 13:37:26 GMT
I love how they asked the women to move seats, not the men.  |
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Post by lemondrop on Jul 3, 2018 13:38:53 GMT
I love how they asked the women to move seats, not the men.  |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:42:41 GMT
At the very least, buy a whole row of seats if your religion tells you that womminz has teh cooteez.
A step up? Charter your own flight.
More serious? Get a pilot's license and buy a plane.
See? There are a lot of options.
But DO NOT expect the entire world to accommodate itself to the tenets of your particular set of unprovable beliefs.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:47:38 GMT
At the very least, buy a whole row of seats if your religion tells you that womminz has teh cooteez. A step up? Charter your own flight. More serious? Get a pilot's license and buy a plane. See? There are a lot of options. But DO NOT expect the entire world to accommodate itself to the tenets of your particular set of unprovable beliefs. If it's that big a deal bloody walk! |
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Post by dewryce on Jul 3, 2018 13:58:40 GMT
I love how they asked the women to move seats, not the men. Ugh, this was my first thought. She is moved to accommodate his religious beliefs. I won't pretend to understand it, but if your religion says you shouldn't be seated next to someone else, okay. I feel it is up to you to make the needed accommodations without inconveniencing others be they man, woman or child. But of course it is the women who are moved. If it was for her religious beliefs that she not sit next to a man, why do I doubt he would be the one relocated? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 14:04:17 GMT
The saddest part is that El Al only did the right thing AFTER being threatened w/boycott by a large Israeli tech firm. Good on the tech firm. Shame on El Al for waiting this long to treat women like worthwhile human beings. "This prompted Barak Eilam, the CEO of NICE Systems, to threaten to boycott El Al "until they change their practice and actions discriminating [against] women."" www.businessinsider.com/el-al-moving-women-orthodox-jewish-2018-6 |
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Post by annabella on Jul 3, 2018 14:06:01 GMT
They should make the last 5 rows of the plane for single males. Seems like a better solution.
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Post by MichyM on Jul 3, 2018 14:20:12 GMT
They should make the last 5 rows of the plane for single males. Seems like a better solution. This. El-Al should hire you  BOOM, problem solved. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with their beliefs. It's the expectation that the women will move, and the resulting flight delays these men cause that I have a problem with. |
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Post by Merge on Jul 3, 2018 14:29:12 GMT
They should make the last 5 rows of the plane for single males. Seems like a better solution. This. El-Al should hire you BOOM, problem solved. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with their beliefs. It's the expectation that the women will move, and the resulting flight delays these men cause that I have a problem with. Yes, and I agree that the "males only" rows should be the least desirable last rows. But I'm sure these guys think they're entitled to the best rows up front and the women should have to go to the back. |
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Post by annabella on Jul 3, 2018 14:40:55 GMT
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Post by sleepingbooty on Jul 3, 2018 14:59:27 GMT
There's also still the mystery of the bagged up ultra-orthodex Jew on the plane from several years ago. Segregating from women or Kohen (prohibited from getting in touch with the dead, including by flying over a burial ground not that I see how this plastic bag is going to help if the plane's carcass isn't enough  ).
 b |
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
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Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jul 3, 2018 16:34:46 GMT
I swear, this quote makes me wish I was on that plane so I can whip up my blouse and bare my titt*es  What POWER! Like..kryptonite! Boom! |
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Aug 18, 2025 19:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 17:56:54 GMT
woman are unclean fiilthy vessels of sin. A man must commit a sin to to begat a son. Being near a woman can cause a man to sin.
Becoming a woman is power, it's about time to take that power back.
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Post by brina on Jul 3, 2018 17:59:07 GMT
I love how they asked the women to move seats, not the men. that is the way of the world isn't it. boys are distracted, girls cover you shoulders. men are distracted, women change your seats. women cover your bodies, cover your hair, cover your faces. Across the gamut of major world religions |
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Post by scrapmaven on Jul 3, 2018 18:39:10 GMT
Wow this is crazy, I mean WTF I didn't know it went down like this, so barbaric and stubborn. I was imaging a polite, civilized exchange. I often see Orthodox men traveling with their whole family in the airport, they seem cheery and pleasant enough, I didn't know this is how they treat other women. Orthodox men are often very friendly to women and this is a small minority of people, not representing the norm. In modern Orthodox society things are far more progressive. I've interracted w/many Orthodox men and they are friendly, respectful and dare I say it, personable. Peas, Please don't judge based upon this stuff. |
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Post by scrapmaven on Jul 3, 2018 18:41:53 GMT
woman are unclean fiilthy vessels of sin. A man must commit a sin to to begat a son. Being near a woman can cause a man to sin. Becoming a woman is power, it's about time to take that power back. Actually, in Jewish tradition it's a blessing for a husband and wife to have nookie and as I mentioned on another thread it's up to the woman to say who, where, when. HA! |
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Post by chances on Jul 3, 2018 18:50:10 GMT
woman are unclean fiilthy vessels of sin. A man must commit a sin to to begat a son. Being near a woman can cause a man to sin. Becoming a woman is power, it's about time to take that power back. Actually, in Jewish tradition it's a blessing for a husband and wife to have nookie and as I mentioned on another thread it's up to the woman to say who, where, when. HA! I missed something! Which thread? |
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Post by scrapmaven on Jul 3, 2018 18:59:07 GMT
Actually, in Jewish tradition it's a blessing for a husband and wife to have nookie and as I mentioned on another thread it's up to the woman to say who, where, when. HA! I missed something! Which thread? There was a thread last week about sex. Someone needed thoughts for a loved one. I don't remember the name of the thread. Maybe someone can post a link. |
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Post by lucyg on Jul 3, 2018 19:00:47 GMT
The ultra-Orthodox Jews (as opposed to regular, everyday Orthodox Jews) have far too much power in Israel. Most American Jews see that and don't like it. The ones I come in regular contact with, anyway.
This just confirms my feelings against all far-right-fundamentalist-fringe interpretations of the Bible (or Koran, whatever), of any religion, including my own.
And of course the men should have to move seats or remain grounded, not the women. Ever. I am so completely not interested in their opinions on any subject, really.
Making the world a worse place, one fundamentalist at a time.
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Post by dewryce on Jul 3, 2018 19:05:48 GMT
Wow this is crazy, I mean WTF I didn't know it went down like this, so barbaric and stubborn. I was imaging a polite, civilized exchange. I often see Orthodox men traveling with their whole family in the airport, they seem cheery and pleasant enough, I didn't know this is how they treat other women. Orthodox men are often very friendly to women and this is a small minority of people, not representing the norm. In modern Orthodox society things are far more progressive. I've interracted w/many Orthodox men and they are friendly, respectful and dare I say it, personable. Peas, Please don't judge based upon this stuff. I can only speak for myself, though I got the impression from many others, that we were judging the men in this particular situation and the airline. Not based on the belief itself, but how they expected to be accommodated while others were inconvenienced. Namely, women. |
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,111
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jul 3, 2018 19:07:50 GMT
Orthodox men are often very friendly to women and this is a small minority of people, not representing the norm. In modern Orthodox society things are far more progressive. I've interracted w/many Orthodox men and they are friendly, respectful and dare I say it, personable. Peas, Please don't judge based upon this stuff. I can only speak for myself, though I got the impression from many others, that we were judging the men in this particular situation and the airline. Not based on the belief itself, but how they expected to be accommodated while others were inconvenienced. Namely, women. That goes for me too, and my titty baring urge. Just those men in this particular situation. I'm all for respect given, and returned. |
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Post by Merge on Jul 3, 2018 19:13:09 GMT
I live in the part of Houston that also home to its largest Jewish communities - Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, etc. We have Orthodox Jews all around and see them walking to services on the Sabbath. I sometimes shop in the Jewish-owned local grocery store. They’re never anything but friendly.
This seems to be a fringe group. One with whom I take major issue.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 3, 2018 19:32:50 GMT
I live in the part of Houston that also home to its largest Jewish communities - Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, etc. We have Orthodox Jews all around and see them walking to services on the Sabbath. I sometimes shop in the Jewish-owned local grocery store. They’re never anything but friendly. This seems to be a fringe group. One with whom I take major issue. Fringe, yes. But too powerful in Israel for Israel's own good. That's why they keep getting saddled with Bibi Netanyahu running the place. ugh |
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Post by Merge on Jul 3, 2018 19:40:35 GMT
I live in the part of Houston that also home to its largest Jewish communities - Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, etc. We have Orthodox Jews all around and see them walking to services on the Sabbath. I sometimes shop in the Jewish-owned local grocery store. They’re never anything but friendly. This seems to be a fringe group. One with whom I take major issue. Fringe, yes. But too powerful in Israel for Israel's own good. That's why they keep getting saddled with Bibi Netanyahu running the place. ugh Sorry! That's really unfortunate. |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 19:41:26 GMT
Wow this is crazy, I mean WTF I didn't know it went down like this, so barbaric and stubborn. I was imaging a polite, civilized exchange. I often see Orthodox men traveling with their whole family in the airport, they seem cheery and pleasant enough, I didn't know this is how they treat other women. Orthodox men are often very friendly to women and this is a small minority of people, not representing the norm. In modern Orthodox society things are far more progressive. I've interracted w/many Orthodox men and they are friendly, respectful and dare I say it, personable. Peas, Please don't judge based upon this stuff. I've only had personal experience w/one orthodox man, in a group interview w/other men and me. He wouldn't shake my hand. Lovely. |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 20:02:26 GMT
What about erecting string from pole to pole on public property to magically turn it into private space. Enter the eruvs. www.miaminewtimes.com/news/orthodox-jewish-eruv-in-pinetree-park-upsets-locals-6395723"Last summer, however, Baker was walking along the water when she spotted two men erecting a pair of 15-foot-tall, pale plastic poles and connecting them with a long, thin white string. When Baker asked what the men were doing, they ignored her. She threatened to call the city. "We are the city," replied a man with a bushy beard and a black hat. Soon, more poles appeared. They, too, were strung together, like a giant spider web slowly surrounding the park. Baker was baffled. "It's an eruv," one of Baker's Orthodox Jewish friends finally explained. During the Sabbath — which begins at sundown Friday and lasts until nightfall Saturday — Orthodox Jews are prohibited by scripture from engaging in a number of otherwise routine activities. One of the most onerous rules prevents the "carrying" of any object outside the home, whether keys or kids.
An eruv is a symbolic structure that blurs the boundary between private and public areas, allowing Orthodox Jews to leave their houses and push their children around in strollers on the Sabbath." Or, you know, don't make up such arbitrary unnecessary rules in the first place? How long until someone gets hurt walking or biking into a string/wire marking an imaginary "private space". |
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Post by MichyM on Jul 3, 2018 20:55:30 GMT
Orthodox men are often very friendly to women and this is a small minority of people, not representing the norm. In modern Orthodox society things are far more progressive. I've interracted w/many Orthodox men and they are friendly, respectful and dare I say it, personable. Peas, Please don't judge based upon this stuff. I've only had personal experience w/one orthodox man, in a group interview w/other men and me. He wouldn't shake my hand. Lovely. I'm Jewish. I was born in NYC, my dad was born and raised in NYC, so we're pretty Jewishy-Jewish.  And have a fairly high tolerance. My son lives in NYC. He has 2 female roommates. They've been in their place for nearing 4 years. Their property management company is run by Jews. Whenever they need to contact the property management, my son has to do it as they ignore the two female roommates. Flat. Out. Ignore. A couple of years who some stuff went wrong and my son was spending the summer in Europe. He had to handle things for the women as they tried for several days and got absolutely no where. Hard to believe in this day and age, but there it is :/ Not just in Israel, and not just on El Al flights. |
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Post by scrapmaven on Jul 3, 2018 22:06:41 GMT
What about erecting string from pole to pole on public property to magically turn it into private space. Enter the eruvs. www.miaminewtimes.com/news/orthodox-jewish-eruv-in-pinetree-park-upsets-locals-6395723"Last summer, however, Baker was walking along the water when she spotted two men erecting a pair of 15-foot-tall, pale plastic poles and connecting them with a long, thin white string. When Baker asked what the men were doing, they ignored her. She threatened to call the city. "We are the city," replied a man with a bushy beard and a black hat. Soon, more poles appeared. They, too, were strung together, like a giant spider web slowly surrounding the park. Baker was baffled. "It's an eruv," one of Baker's Orthodox Jewish friends finally explained. During the Sabbath — which begins at sundown Friday and lasts until nightfall Saturday — Orthodox Jews are prohibited by scripture from engaging in a number of otherwise routine activities. One of the most onerous rules prevents the "carrying" of any object outside the home, whether keys or kids.
An eruv is a symbolic structure that blurs the boundary between private and public areas, allowing Orthodox Jews to leave their houses and push their children around in strollers on the Sabbath." Or, you know, don't make up such arbitrary unnecessary rules in the first place? How long until someone gets hurt walking or biking into a string/wire marking an imaginary "private space". Again, I am very glad to hear that El-Al changed their policy. As a woman, I will not be removed from my seat to suit a person on the fringe. These men are a fringe group. I'm by no means supporting their antiquated stance. As far as shabbat(Sabbath), this is a day for prayer and relaxation and family time. You're not supposed to work, exchange money, or anything like that. Carrying keys is work. Turning on lights is considered work. Food from Sundown to Sundown would be eaten cold, so that no one has to cook. I completely understand this and don't have issue w/it. In fact, some of my favorite Shabbats were spent with songs and laughter and good discussion. Posting an Eruv in a public place isn't OK. Again, a fringe thing. I'm trying to educate a bit, so that my religion isn't painted w/a broad brush. Like most religions there are fanatics. |
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Post by brina on Jul 3, 2018 22:27:41 GMT
What about erecting string from pole to pole on public property to magically turn it into private space. Enter the eruvs. www.miaminewtimes.com/news/orthodox-jewish-eruv-in-pinetree-park-upsets-locals-6395723"Last summer, however, Baker was walking along the water when she spotted two men erecting a pair of 15-foot-tall, pale plastic poles and connecting them with a long, thin white string. When Baker asked what the men were doing, they ignored her. She threatened to call the city. "We are the city," replied a man with a bushy beard and a black hat. Soon, more poles appeared. They, too, were strung together, like a giant spider web slowly surrounding the park. Baker was baffled. "It's an eruv," one of Baker's Orthodox Jewish friends finally explained. During the Sabbath — which begins at sundown Friday and lasts until nightfall Saturday — Orthodox Jews are prohibited by scripture from engaging in a number of otherwise routine activities. One of the most onerous rules prevents the "carrying" of any object outside the home, whether keys or kids.
An eruv is a symbolic structure that blurs the boundary between private and public areas, allowing Orthodox Jews to leave their houses and push their children around in strollers on the Sabbath." Or, you know, don't make up such arbitrary unnecessary rules in the first place? How long until someone gets hurt walking or biking into a string/wire marking an imaginary "private space". Eruvs are erected a a height that nobody is gong to accidentally walk into it. Honestly, if you did not see the person erecting or repairing it you would not realize it was there. It looks no different than a telephone wire or a power line, and often is strung from the same poles (and yes, they have permits). Often if there is a preexisting wall it can be blessed in such a way that it counts as part of the eruv. This happened recently in my home town. There was an eruv line prior to hurricane Sandy. After the storm they rebuilt the boardwalk with a storm wall -that storm wall is now the eruv. |
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BOOM, problem solved.
).
What POWER! Like..kryptonite! Boom! 
And have a fairly high tolerance.