scrappyesq
Pearl Clutcher
You have always been a part of the heist. You're only mad now because you don't like your cut.
Posts: 4,032 
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Post by scrappyesq on Nov 8, 2018 18:40:28 GMT
And I can't stop.
I am at a complete loss. I just spent over an hour on the phone with a (young) friend who was hysterical. I mention the young part because I’ve definitely been more of a mentor; I was friends with her mom and I met her trying to help her apply to specialized high schools (a process in NYC) 14 years ago. She is now a college graduate with a whole lot going on and I don’t know what to do.
I’ve always been there for her as the trusted older friend. I took her to her first gyn appointment because she didn’t want to ask her mom. I’ve had more conversations about lady issues than I ever wanted to have with anyone in my life. But I knew that if she couldn’t ask me she wouldn’t ask anyone so I always made myself available.
This was true even during my endless cycle of taking the bar exam a million times. I wouldn’t talk to anyone but I made sure that she had DH’s phone number while I was studying so that she had someone to call who could actually get in touch with me (side note DH is so amazing sometimes. She called him once because her computer crashed and he walked her through reinstalling windows while I was studying).
Fast forward to post graduation. She went away to a really good school and graduated with a 3.8 or something really close. But having a strong background educationally has really meant nothing. She comes from a background of not feeling loved. I know this because I’ve watched the pattern of boyfriends and the things that she has done in her quest. It is all about self esteem, and I’ve told her this countless times. We’ll have a conversation and she will be on board with trying therapy or staying away from men until she gets herself together. But then a week later it will be on to someone new. And the someone new is always someone who she shouldn’t be with. Former prisoners, drug dealers, jobless and far less educated than she is. That is not at all to say that people who fall in to any one of these categories don’t deserve a chance. The do. She just never found the ones who did.
Almost three years ago she had a MAJOR health scare. She was diagnosed with something that could have changed her life forever. I will never in my life forget the moment she told me, and I couldn’t cry because she was hysterical. And she wanted me to tell her mother because she was afraid to. So I had to hold my emotions for the both of them while I felt like I was dying inside. It was awful
We all found out a few weeks later that it was actually a misdiagnosis. Relieved? Absolutely. But we had a long discussion and I told her that she needed to change her lifestyle. The scare that we all dealt with was totally preventable on her part.
The promised lifestyle change never materialized; a few months later she discovered she was pregnant. Again I ended up being the person that she told first. And she actually didn’t even have a chance to tell her mother before she ended up in the hospital with complications that ended the pregnancy in a miscarriage. And we had the lifestyle discussion again. She promised again to make changes.
A year later she was pregnant again. This was Spring 2017. And she didn’t call to tell me. Her mother did because she was afraid to. I’ve never done anything but be supportive, but she was afraid that I would be disappointed. I was, but that’s not anything that I would ever share with her.
The father of her child? Already had three kids. He only saw two of them, and had the nerve to ask my friend to help him on his visitation weekends even though they had only been dating for three months at the time she got pregnant. Then told her himself that he cheated on her because at the beginning of her pregnancy she was so sick she wasn’t any fun (his words not mine). They broke up, and her entire pregnancy was spent with him being a loser, not showing up for doctors appointments, partying and dating new women, all visible on social media (which of course she checked).
This morning on my way in (so 7:30) I get a frantic text message to call her. I call her back and ask what happened. She can’t even get any words out, she’s so hysterical. The rewind for the current situation is that she is living in her parent’s one bedroom apartment with the baby, her parents and an unemployed distant cousin who arrived from overseas three years ago and won’t leave. And won’t work either. I went to their apartment once and it was a tight squeeze before baby and cousin. She says she can’t take it anymore. That she got in to a fight with her parents about something stupid over the weekend which has lasted all week with neither parent talking to her. She works two hours from home, and her mother insists that she pick her up from work every day adding 45 minutes to the commute. Her parents love to hold it over her head that she lives with them and no one wants to di anything to get cousin out of the apartment. This conversation went on for an hour. And every time I made a gentle suggestion she told me that she can’t do it for whatever reason (get a different job, start figuring out ways to move out etc).
I’ve had a tough life. No exaggeration, nor is it a badge that I flash. But knowing where I came from and where I’m at reinforces my belief that things can get better if you believe it, and if you work hard to change things. I do believe that part of her issue is depression, which started long before her pregnancy but has gotten worse. I’ve suggested therapy, making sure that she understands that there is no shame to it, look at me. I still go and its been nearly three years. She said she can’t.
She has a degree in English. I suggested getting her teaching certificate. She can’t because it will take too long.
There is a lot more (especially with the baby’s father). Most of the time I feel like her life is a never-ending drama fountain. I know what it is to be in that place where you feel like you can’t do anything. Like you are worthless, and it will never get better. I’ve been there. I just never gave up, and I feel like if I say that to her I’m making it worse rather than being understanding. I don’t want to abandon her, but I really don’t know what to do other than listen. Is that all?
Thoughts?
(And cheers for making it this far. I didn’t think it would be this long)
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
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Post by ginacivey on Nov 8, 2018 18:55:31 GMT
i did get to the end...and i'm trying to figure out what i'd do
i will come back and reply
gina
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Post by craftedbys on Nov 8, 2018 18:57:35 GMT
Sorry to hear she is having such a tough time, but it sounds like she is addicted to the drama. There are people who cannot seem to live without being surrounded by chaos and drama.
It sounds like she uses you as a substitute for therapy. It also sounds like she has no intention of ever actually changing her life and you are just a sounding board.
If I were in your shoes, I would start distancing myself simply because I don't like drama in my life, especially other people's drama.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jul 3, 2024 0:08:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 19:00:45 GMT
Hugs.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Nov 8, 2018 19:08:51 GMT
You sound like a wonderful friend, and it's sad she's putting so much on you.
I find it interesting that she talked with you about so much when she was in high school that she didn't want to talk with her mom about it. Then, when she knew she'd disappointed you and the stars were aligned differently, she confides in and leans on her mom. Now her mom is wanting something from her in return for allowing her educated butt to stay in the cramped apartment and she is seeking you out. I'm sure there are a million facets to this story you could never type out.. but- I'm sure you know this...
People with low self esteem and without the drive to make change happen still want affirmation. They will seek out people that will affirm that they did nothing to make this situation and they are just a victim. Bonus points if you hold their hand and wallow with them. Reminding this person that they are capable and culpable for their own life only makes them feel annoyed and they drop out of sight in search of the victim supporter.
This leaves you a choice. Feed it (keep listening and offering "too hard" solutions.) Or hold her accountable. Remind her she has a great framework, education and at least one sane adult in her life (you) and you'd love to help her get out of her mess, but she has to meet you half way. She has to either offer solution to microproblems or accept one of your suggestions. Keep chipping at it, and eventually her drama fountain should begin being more of a sprinkler.. If she's not ready to really tackle her issues now, make it clear you'll always help her when she's ready. Neither one is abandoning her, but you can't just let her keep feeding drama in your mind and heart.
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Anita
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,679
Location: Kansas City -ish
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Post by Anita on Nov 8, 2018 19:12:53 GMT
I'm sorry. I think she will never change. You've done all you can. If you still want to listen to the drama, you are a far better person than I will ever be. Big hugs.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 8, 2018 19:14:19 GMT
I have a sibling who could be described somewhat in this way, in a bad situation somewhat of their own making, in a bad marriage but won’t leave because, because, because. Won’t go to therapy or a counselor. Asks for advice but never takes it. You get to the point where it’s like banging your own head against a wall because it never ends, and it never will, until the person decides FOR THEMSELF that they really just cannot continue to live that way. You can make complete sense all.day.long and it just won’t matter because they fall back into what is familiar even though it’s awful. I got to the point where I couldn’t listen to the endless drama anymore and said, “If you aren’t willing to take steps to help yourself, I really can’t help you either. I’m out.”
It’s hard to watch someone flounder but it’s even harder knowing you’ve given them sound advice that they refuse to act on, and in fact do the exact opposite.
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
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Post by schizo319 on Nov 8, 2018 19:15:04 GMT
I also read your whole post. Bless you for being there for her this long - I KNOW how difficult that is. My best friend from high school sounds a LOT like the young girl you speak of - impulsive, co-dependent, emotional, depressed, etc. A few years ago I just stopped. I stopped reaching out to her, or communicating with her beyond surface pleasantries on social media. It was really difficult for both of us, because so much of my life was wrapped up in worrying about her and "saving" her from the latest crisis of her own making - and she was very dependent on my support (though she too never actually took any input under advisement despite being agreeable in the moment). Things have settled down some in her life over the past year and we are slowly rekindling a relationship, it isn't what it was before, but I'm happy to have her back in my life now if at arm's length.
Have you discussed this with your therapist? (S)he might have some suggestions on how to set some boundaries and move forward. It doesn't sound like the situation is doing either of you much good at this point.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Nov 8, 2018 19:16:34 GMT
Sorry to ask but what are you getting out of this friendship/mentorship? She isn't your daughter, she doesn't appear to be your friend, she isn't succeeding despite your best attempts to help her. Are you her self-appointed listening ear/shoulder to cry on?
It sounds like a situation in which everyone enables this young lady to continue making terrible decisions. Like craftedbys , I'd recommend distancing yourself ASAP. This does not seem healthy for anyone involved. I mentally gasped when this grown woman's (yes, she might be young but she's still a grown adult with an education and degree) mother had to call you to break the pregnancy news. What kind of strange situation is this? Are you a substitute mother-slash-daddy without any power to positively impact this woman's life?
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Post by Zee on Nov 8, 2018 19:43:16 GMT
I just can't deal with people this needy. I'd distance myself. It sounds like she doesn't take your advice anyway so why bother.
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Post by drummergirl65 on Nov 8, 2018 19:45:15 GMT
Honestly it sounds like she loves drama. She refuses to help herself and expects what? For you to solve all her problems without her having to do the work? I'd step back.
I had to do the same with a friend who would do the same thing. I would get calls everyday filled with drama and problems that she would take no control over.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 8, 2018 19:50:50 GMT
If I were in your shoes, I would start distancing myself simply because I don't like drama in my life, especially other people's drama. I didn't want to be the first person to say it, so I didn't reply right after I read the OP, but this is unfortunately probably what I would do in this situation, too. Some people are just, for whatever reason, addicted to that kind of drama and won't / can't change, no matter what you might suggest-- there's always reasons why they can't do something-- even if the real reason they *can't* is a mental one on their part. It sounds like it's really soul-sucking for you to be the sounding board in this situation when nothing ever changes. I had a friend like this for a while too, and it was mentally exhausting to listen to her issues that never could be solved, no matter what. My DH's mom is like this, too- and that's the reason we live across the country from her, and why he hasn't talked to her in about 12 years now. Her drama was affecting US negatively, and he finally realized it. ETA: I think DH's mom actually LIKED having an audience for her *soap opera* litany of issues. It made her feel good, somehow, in some twisted way? |
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Post by tentoes on Nov 8, 2018 20:05:11 GMT
I'd suggest she talk with a counselor. You have done so much for this young lady. She's a mama now, and has responsibilities to that child to get her life in order.
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scrappyesq
Pearl Clutcher
You have always been a part of the heist. You're only mad now because you don't like your cut.
Posts: 4,032
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Post by scrappyesq on Nov 8, 2018 20:07:18 GMT
You guys are right about distancing myself, and I actually started to right before she had the baby. She had asked me to be her birth coach, and I was supposed to go to the last ultrasound. I took a vacation day on the coldest day of the year (seriously) and met her at the hospital. When I get there, I discover that I was the third wheel (an awkward feeling at 40- something) because she had asked another friend to be her coach. I didn’t go to the hospital when she was in labor because there were literally 20 people in and out of her room during the course of the day.
Writing this all out reminds me of some of the fuckery that I’ve been involved with when it comes to being a friend. I wouldn’t be surprised if any Pea with a long memory jumps on to ask why I haven’t learned my lesson. The thing about her is that she is young and she has a baby. I don’t want to walk away when she is in need (I know I have to for my own sanity). Even DH who has the patience of a saint told me to drop the rope a long time ago.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 8, 2018 20:13:45 GMT
You need to set boundaries, for your own personal health!
She is afraid to disappoint you, but she does.
She doesn’t heed your advice at all.
She is likely setting the stage to ask you to take her in.
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Post by flanz on Nov 8, 2018 20:19:11 GMT
You sound like a wonderful friend, and it's sad she's putting so much on you. I find it interesting that she talked with you about so much when she was in high school that she didn't want to talk with her mom about it. Then, when she knew she'd disappointed you and the stars were aligned differently, she confides in and leans on her mom. Now her mom is wanting something from her in return for allowing her educated butt to stay in the cramped apartment and she is seeking you out. I'm sure there are a million facets to this story you could never type out.. but- I'm sure you know this... People with low self esteem and without the drive to make change happen still want affirmation. They will seek out people that will affirm that they did nothing to make this situation and they are just a victim. Bonus points if you hold their hand and wallow with them. Reminding this person that they are capable and culpable for their own life only makes them feel annoyed and they drop out of sight in search of the victim supporter. This leaves you a choice. Feed it (keep listening and offering "too hard" solutions.) Or hold her accountable. Remind her she has a great framework, education and at least one sane adult in her life (you) and you'd love to help her get out of her mess, but she has to meet you half way. She has to either offer solution to microproblems or accept one of your suggestions. Keep chipping at it, and eventually her drama fountain should begin being more of a sprinkler.. If she's not ready to really tackle her issues now, make it clear you'll always help her when she's ready. Neither one is abandoning her, but you can't just let her keep feeding drama in your mind and heart. Excellent advice! And huge hugs to you! |
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scrappyesq
Pearl Clutcher
You have always been a part of the heist. You're only mad now because you don't like your cut.
Posts: 4,032
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Post by scrappyesq on Nov 8, 2018 20:21:07 GMT
You need to set boundaries, for your own personal health! She is afraid to disappoint you, but she does. She doesn’t heed your advice at all. She is likely setting the stage to ask you to take her in. And I honestly thought about that. Feeling guilty because it's only me in my apartment. Especially when she started talking about not being able to have a real first Christmas for the baby. It is a good thing I have my therapist on speed dial. Because clearly I need a session. |
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Post by catck on Nov 8, 2018 20:23:33 GMT
You have been through such a lot with her and if nothing is changing then it's hard to admit that probably nothing will change. Personally I would still be there for her to talk but let her contact you so that there is distance. It's hard to watch someone making such a mess but you have gone above and beyond in trying to help. Hugs for you.
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Post by nlwilkins on Nov 8, 2018 20:23:38 GMT
This sounds so like my daughter when she was a teenager. I finally realized she was using me as a dumping ground. She would would come home all guilty and upset and dump it all on me - the guilt, the drama, the emotions she was going through. Then she would go off to bed and sleep feeling free and absolved of all responsibility.
Your young friend is "dumping" on you. She calls, talks it all out and then goes on her merry way not making a bit of effort to change, or to deal with the results of her behavior. She is not interested inn changing. She just wants to get some relief and you are her relief valve. She calls you when it gets too much and talking to you makes it OK. There is a little shallowness involved too - being able to continue in her chosen haphazard life style even though it has brought her many problems probably means these problems are just shrugged off and not affecting her very much once the drama of them are over.
My suggestion is to limit the conversation of the calls. Don't suggest solutions, don't elicit promises of better behavior or therapy just zero in on what she did and how her behavior led to it. What did she do to get into this situation? Make her tell you what she did. Then gently point out it is her own doing so there is nothing you can do to help. "You know this is the result of your own behavior. I can't help you until you help yourself." Your goal is to gently make her feel more guilty, not to relieve her her guilt.
Either she will start to see the light and make some changes or she will quit calling you so much. Or both. Just be sure she knows you are always there for her, but that you cannot support her in her bad decision making.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Nov 8, 2018 20:32:58 GMT
I work with someone that ended up in this endless loop at lunch bitching about her deadbeat husband. Two years of lunch wasted. I finally had enough and told her to either solve it or stop talking about it. I had given her all the advice I could and I couldn’t hear it any longer. Oh, she got supremely pissed, picked a fight about something different a few days later and stormed away from my desk. Blessed fucking relief. She didn’t speak to me for two more years. Then she finally started talking and thanked me for all the advice and said divorcing her husband was the best thing she ever did.
I keep my distance. I’m not getting sucked in again. We’re friendly but not friends. You really need to figure out what “you’re” getting out of this endless drama. There’s a reason you haven’t put a stop to it after all this time.
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Post by mikklynn on Nov 8, 2018 20:37:24 GMT
I'm asking this gently, because I know you care about this woman. Does she ever give anything to your relationship? Do you ever have a normal conversation where she asks about your new job or anything about you?
I think you need to cut her off. She adds nothing but stress to your life. She refuses to do anything to help herself. You can't save her.
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Post by mom on Nov 8, 2018 20:37:42 GMT
You guys are right about distancing myself, and I actually started to right before she had the baby. She had asked me to be her birth coach, and I was supposed to go to the last ultrasound. I took a vacation day on the coldest day of the year (seriously) and met her at the hospital. When I get there, I discover that I was the third wheel (an awkward feeling at 40- something) because she had asked another friend to be her coach. I didn’t go to the hospital when she was in labor because there were literally 20 people in and out of her room during the course of the day. Writing this all out reminds me of some of the fuckery that I’ve been involved with when it comes to being a friend. I wouldn’t be surprised if any Pea with a long memory jumps on to ask why I haven’t learned my lesson. The thing about her is that she is young and she has a baby. I don’t want to walk away when she is in need (I know I have to for my own sanity). Even DH who has the patience of a saint told me to drop the rope a long time ago. You know (or I hope you know) that I have a massive respect for you. So know I am not trying to be mean or ugly, at all. But girl. You are on her merry go round of drama. You have to jump off or she will forever be dragging you into her mess. It will never stop unless you refuse to play. There is a line between being her friend and enabling her. You really have crossed that line with her. She is a grown up and needs to take responsibility for her own actions. She isn't interested in solving her problems - she is interested in sympathy and head pats. You are doing her no favors by running interfereance between her and her mom. Her daughter is going replicate the behavior she sees in her mom - and right now, that isn't a positive behavior. And by enabling her, you are helping the cycle to continue. What this women has with you is not healthy - for either of you. Take a break from her. Wish her well but let her know you need to focus on you. I am not saying you never have contact with her again. You care about them, I get it. BUT do not be at her beck and call, giving her the answers (that she obviously doesn't want). Unless there is a legit emergency (daughter is in the hospital, something happened to grandma) send her calls to voicemail. Let her text go un-replied to. If you do feel the need to reply, one sentence showing empathy, then stop. When you cut the oxygen to drama, it will die down. Bug hugs. I know it isn't easy but take a step back. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 8, 2018 20:51:30 GMT
You cannot save her. You mean well, in fact, you mean the best for her. But, YOU cannot save her.
Only she can save herself. And the way you can help her do that is cease to give her a distraction from figuring out for herself what she wants and is willing to do.
She has been awful to you, used you, and it is okay for you to walk away until she makes changes in her life that allow you two to interact in a more positive way.
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Post by jennyap on Nov 8, 2018 21:27:54 GMT
Wasn’t it you who recently posted that you won’t keep setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm? Maybe not, but it seems fitting here. You have clearly been a huge blessing to this young woman - I’d seriously love to have a friend like you - but this is not a friendship, it is far too unbalanced for that. To me FuzzyMutt hit the nail on the head, her last paragraph especially. I can’t give you better advice than that. |
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Post by papersilly on Nov 8, 2018 21:37:03 GMT
sometimes all you can do is listen and that is enough and maybe more than enough than they get from other people in their lives.
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Post by destined2bmom on Nov 8, 2018 21:48:40 GMT
You sound like a wonderful friend, and it's sad she's putting so much on you. I find it interesting that she talked with you about so much when she was in high school that she didn't want to talk with her mom about it. Then, when she knew she'd disappointed you and the stars were aligned differently, she confides in and leans on her mom. Now her mom is wanting something from her in return for allowing her educated butt to stay in the cramped apartment and she is seeking you out. I'm sure there are a million facets to this story you could never type out.. but- I'm sure you know this... People with low self esteem and without the drive to make change happen still want affirmation. They will seek out people that will affirm that they did nothing to make this situation and they are just a victim. Bonus points if you hold their hand and wallow with them. Reminding this person that they are capable and culpable for their own life only makes them feel annoyed and they drop out of sight in search of the victim supporter. This leaves you a choice. Feed it (keep listening and offering "too hard" solutions.) Or hold her accountable. Remind her she has a great framework, education and at least one sane adult in her life (you) and you'd love to help her get out of her mess, but she has to meet you half way. She has to either offer solution to microproblems or accept one of your suggestions. Keep chipping at it, and eventually her drama fountain should begin being more of a sprinkler.. If she's not ready to really tackle her issues now, make it clear you'll always help her when she's ready. Neither one is abandoning her, but you can't just let her keep feeding drama in your mind and heart. This...Plus when I read that you were in your apartment by yourself; it hit me that she may be wanting to live with you in your apartment; so that she can get away from her family. Please do not let her. |
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,774
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Post by scrapngranny on Nov 8, 2018 22:09:26 GMT
Oh my! My opinion is that she will never change and her life will always be a chaotic mess. She has shown no interest in changing any of her behaviors. How long do you wish to be part of her self induced drama? I know you think you are helping, and maybe in the beginning you were, but she is a grown ass adult, with a college education acting like a dizzy 15 year old. On some level she is getting something out of this out of control life style or she would make changes.
You should probably extricate yourself from this merry-go-round.
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kate
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,560
Location: The city that doesn't sleep
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Nov 8, 2018 22:42:40 GMT
I have sympathy for the young woman. Though some people are indeed addicted to drama just because it makes them feel important, I also think there are many people who just don't have the skills or resources NOT to have drama. If you're constantly in full crisis mode (whether or not the crises are of your own making), then you don't have the time or energy to deal with the underlying issues that will yield long-term change. Her situation sounds pretty complex - I'm not sure it's fair to go all Nike on her and say "Just DO IT," meaning "choose better partners" or "go get a better job" or "find another living space." That said, even a superhero (referencing your avatar!  ) can't haul her out of trouble permanently. She really does have to make some of the changes herself, and you can be there as a support as she herself makes those changes. It will probably be two steps forward, one step back. And please please please don't let her move in unless/until she has made some significant and time-tested changes. God bless you for being there for this young woman. The old airplane/oxygen-mask analogy applies here, I think. If you allow yourself to become depleted, then you won't have anything left with which to help her when she IS ready to be helped. |
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Post by christine58 on Nov 8, 2018 22:47:22 GMT
And I honestly thought about that. Feeling guilty because it's only me in my apartment. Especially when she started talking about not being able to have a real first Christmas for the baby. That baby won't remember a first Christmas. I'd be backing away..either slowly or immediately. She is full of drama and is manipulating you. |
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
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Post by ginacivey on Nov 8, 2018 23:15:31 GMT
I didn't want to be the first person to say it, so I didn't reply right after I read the OP, but this is unfortunately probably what I would do in this situation, too. i think this is why i hesitated to reply immediately you need to distance yourself from her you already heard plenty of good advice i'm just reiterating gina |
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) can't haul her out of trouble permanently. She really does have to make some of the changes herself, and you can be there as a support as she herself makes those changes. It will probably be two steps forward, one step back. And please please please don't let her move in unless/until she has made some significant and time-tested changes.