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Post by bumble on Jan 15, 2019 23:47:26 GMT
But it has literally nothing to do with Canada's socialized medicine. The hospital was founded decades ago and receives a waiver to continue to operate as a private entity. Other than accepting Canada's insurance, it isn't part of the system. To say that Rand's benefiting from Canada's socialized medicine is just silly - he's benefiting from an excellent surgeon who developed this technique in the 1940s and going to a private hospital that does over 6,500 repairs a year - you're just not going to find a surgeon in the US with the same level of expertise. This is true, and basically what I was going to post. I know two people that went to Shouldice for hernia surgery. Both were Canadians and it was paid for by our healthcare but not all healthcare in Canada is universal and only available to Canadians. It is a touchy subject here in Canada.
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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Jan 16, 2019 0:30:46 GMT
I believe the hospital he's using is a private one, so anyone who has the money can pay and receive care there . . . still not sure why we allow that, but that's a political discussion for another day and place . . . Why would you not allow a private business to sell their services to a paying customer?
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Post by bunnyhug on Jan 16, 2019 0:47:09 GMT
I believe the hospital he's using is a private one, so anyone who has the money can pay and receive care there . . . still not sure why we allow that, but that's a political discussion for another day and place . . . Why would you not allow a private business to sell their services to a paying customer? Because healthcare isn’t a business, it’s a public service.
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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Jan 16, 2019 1:39:34 GMT
Why would you not allow a private business to sell their services to a paying customer? Because healthcare isn’t a business, it’s a public service. It is a public service but since it's private and not government supported, it's also a business, I would think. Perhaps that's the difference in the US and Canadian views, but a private business must make money or go bankrupt, IMHO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 1:48:02 GMT
Rand's choice will follow him forever. "You're the guy who chose to have surgery in a country whose healthcare system you denigrated".
Can't wait.
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Post by bunnyhug on Jan 16, 2019 2:55:29 GMT
Because healthcare isn’t a business, it’s a public service. It is a public service but since it's private and not government supported, it's also a business, I would think. Perhaps that's the difference in the US and Canadian views, but a private business must make money or go bankrupt, IMHO. Yeah, for the most part, Canadians aren’t supportive of healthcare as a business, and such private clinics rile a lot of us up—accusations of queue jumping can cause an uproar and government investigation—equal access to medical care is kind of a thing for us!
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valincal
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Post by valincal on Jan 16, 2019 3:16:56 GMT
Wait... I thought all of the “good” Canadian doctors and nurses left Canada years ago to go work in the US to make more money and have a better life...? At least that’s what many Americans here on 2peas told me? 🤔
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Sarah*H
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Post by Sarah*H on Jan 16, 2019 3:32:23 GMT
Gosh, I hope Rand never has to worry about qualifying for coverage due to a preexisting condition. Of course since he has the luxury of flying to another country and paying out of pocket to get the type of treatment he prefers, I guess he's not the sort of person who needs to worry about preexisting conditions. Go figure. One would hope that this sort of life experience is the type that would give a lawmaker perspective, compassion and wisdom but I'm not holding my breath.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 5:12:19 GMT
It is a public service but since it's private and not government supported, it's also a business, I would think. Perhaps that's the difference in the US and Canadian views, but a private business must make money or go bankrupt, IMHO. Yeah, for the most part, Canadians aren’t supportive of healthcare as a business, and such private clinics rile a lot of us up—accusations of queue jumping can cause an uproar and government investigation—equal access to medical care is kind of a thing for us! That's because intelligence, critical thinking and common decency are "kind of a thing" for Canadians. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/MNrJDkDuSwqIMVw33MdD.jpg)
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azredhead
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Post by azredhead on Jan 16, 2019 5:34:40 GMT
okay, so I was curious- it looks like the hospital specializes only in hernia repair, and in doing non-mesh hernia repair surgeries. So apparently that's an important factor to him. Still seems ridiculous that he couldn't find any specialists in the US who also do that type of surgery, but it's his money (paid to him by US, but still- his money). I was curious as well and did a quick search for surgeons in the US who also do this type of repair. I found a couple, both whom trained at that hospital. Only one has any meaningful experience - but with less than 700 surgeries of that type, still no where near the experience he'll find there. I'm by no means claiming an exhaustive search, but I think it would be hard to find any surgeon who would have the same level as experience as this hospital has been the pioneer for this type of surgery for 60 years. As it is also has a significantly longer hospital stay (5 days versus a typical outpatient) AND is only conducted with patients at a healthy weight - it's just not going to be found at any local surgery center. Having both surgeries and multiple hernai surgeries both with a mesh. THe 2nd one they had to make larger as the other was not doing the job obvisouly. They are not a garanteed fix. I don't know about whether or not only surgeons in the US doing the surgery without the mesh? I was not given the option. So maybe that was a reason why? Different regulations not sometimes the specialists? I could be wrong there too, or he just wants the private care and what he feels best for what he has?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 16:08:10 GMT
But it has literally nothing to do with Canada's socialized medicine. The hospital was founded decades ago and receives a waiver to continue to operate as a private entity. Other than accepting Canada's insurance, it isn't part of the system. To say that Rand's benefiting from Canada's socialized medicine is just silly - he's benefiting from an excellent surgeon who developed this technique in the 1940s and going to a private hospital that does over 6,500 repairs a year - you're just not going to find a surgeon in the US with the same level of expertise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 16:10:34 GMT
The article clearly states they accept out of Canada patients who pay their own fees. Why would anyone object to a man who was severely injured receiving care from a premier hernia repair facility? Because of the blatant hypocrisy all over it? The man has gone so far as to say universal healthcare is slavery of doctors and health professionals. 🤷🏻♀️ He's not using the universal healthcare system, so the hypocrisy you claim, doesn't exist.
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Post by annabella on Jan 16, 2019 16:29:35 GMT
The thing that bothers me the most about this, (enough that I was going to rant on my FB page 😂) is that Rand Paul (by virtue of the American people) has the luxury of choosing the best provider in the world himself, and of being able to pay out of pocket for it, with no real hardship. Yet most Americans have neither option available to them, and this man continually battles against a system that would make things more affordable for them. Despicable. How does he keep getting elected? 😐 Yes I agree. I understand he just researched where the best surgeon is and it happened to be in Canada. But as a US Senator, you have some responsibility to appear a certain way. He should have looked harder for a US surgeon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 16:37:35 GMT
The thing that bothers me the most about this, (enough that I was going to rant on my FB page 😂) is that Rand Paul (by virtue of the American people) has the luxury of choosing the best provider in the world himself, and of being able to pay out of pocket for it, with no real hardship. Yet most Americans have neither option available to them, and this man continually battles against a system that would make things more affordable for them. Despicable. How does he keep getting elected? 😐 Yes I agree. I understand he just researched where the best surgeon is and it happened to be in Canada. But as a US Senator, you have some responsibility to appear a certain way. He should have looked harder for a US surgeon. I was curious as well and did a quick search for surgeons in the US who also do this type of repair. I found a couple, both whom trained at that hospital. Only one has any meaningful experience - but with less than 700 surgeries of that type, still no where near the experience he'll find there. I'm by no means claiming an exhaustive search, but I think it would be hard to find any surgeon who would have the same level as experience as this hospital has been the pioneer for this type of surgery for 60 years. As it is also has a significantly longer hospital stay (5 days versus a typical outpatient) AND is only conducted with patients at a healthy weight - it's just not going to be found at any local surgery center.
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 16, 2019 16:40:30 GMT
Because of the blatant hypocrisy all over it? The man has gone so far as to say universal healthcare is slavery of doctors and health professionals. 🤷🏻♀️ He's not using the universal healthcare system, so the hypocrisy you claim, doesn't exist. It is hypocritical. He called their system “slavery”. But hey justify it all you want, doesn’t make the slightest private/public discrepancy difference to me . He has the luxury of electing the best care in the world, and being able to afford to pay out of pocket, thanks to the American taxpayers. While rejecting any attempt to reform the system here, I’ve already made clear what my primary objection to it was. And now I will return you to block. I have NO further interest in any back and forth with your trollbaiting self, it was a apparently a mistake to remove you. Please respect that and refrain from quoting me in future.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 17:09:18 GMT
He's not using the universal healthcare system, so the hypocrisy you claim, doesn't exist. It is hypocritical. He called their system “slavery”. But hey justify it all you want, doesn’t make the slightest private/public discrepancy difference to me . He has the luxury of electing the best care in the world, and being able to afford to pay out of pocket, thanks to the American taxpayers. While rejecting any attempt to reform the system here, I’ve already made clear what my primary objection to it was. And now I will return you to block. I have NO further interest in any back and forth with your trollbaiting self, it was a apparently a mistake to remove you. Please respect that and refrain from quoting me in future. He's not using the system he disagrees with, so there is no hypocrisy. He's also not rejecting any attempt to reform the system here. Just because you disagree with his objections to the "fix" doesn't mean he's not trying to reform in a more effective manor than what was proposed. You're missing the point of blocking if you're "blocking" Peas you disagree with and "unblocking" them to have your say then asking them not to respond to you. Having a discussion is what this message board is all about. Please respect the purpose of this message board and refrain from calling people trolls and telling them not to participate, simply because you don't agree with them. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
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ashley
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Post by ashley on Jan 16, 2019 17:18:22 GMT
He is using a system he disagrees with... while this specific clinic may be partially private, it is still part of our overall health care system. And he’d pay for medical care at any other clinic or hospital in Canada, too. If any non-citizen in Canada needed health care, you could obtain it by paying for it.
For example, I know the clinic I go charges $50 for Canadians if you don’t have your health card with you, and $100 for non-citizens to be seen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 17:30:08 GMT
He is using a system he disagrees with... while this specific clinic may be partially private, it is still part of our overall health care system. And he’d pay for medical care at any other clinic or hospital in Canada, too. If any non-citizen in Canada needed health care, you could obtain it by paying for it. For example, I know the clinic I go charges $50 for Canadians if you don’t have your health card with you, and $100 for non-citizens to be seen. He's not using universal healthcare (what he disagrees with) he's using private healthcare, which he very much agrees with. No hypocrisy.
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ashley
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Post by ashley on Jan 16, 2019 17:32:32 GMT
He is using a system he disagrees with... while this specific clinic may be partially private, it is still part of our overall health care system. And he’d pay for medical care at any other clinic or hospital in Canada, too. If any non-citizen in Canada needed health care, you could obtain it by paying for it. For example, I know the clinic I go charges $50 for Canadians if you don’t have your health card with you, and $100 for non-citizens to be seen. He's not using universal healthcare (what he disagrees with) he's using private healthcare, which he very much agrees with. No hypocrisy. did you read my post? Are you Canadian?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 17:59:18 GMT
To be fair, he doesn't fully agree with the U.S. health "system" either, so essentially, there isn't a system he'd be fully in agreement with. As I see it, he's doing what actually comes closest to a libertarian standpoint by paying out of pocket for something he needs/wants. Also, since it won't be a claim against his Congressional insurance, doesn't that theoretically save taxpayer dollars? (That's not meant to be argumentative, just how I thought insurance worked *theoretically*)
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quiltedbrain
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Post by quiltedbrain on Jan 16, 2019 18:06:02 GMT
He is using a system he disagrees with... while this specific clinic may be partially private, it is still part of our overall health care system. And he’d pay for medical care at any other clinic or hospital in Canada, too. If any non-citizen in Canada needed health care, you could obtain it by paying for it. For example, I know the clinic I go charges $50 for Canadians if you don’t have your health card with you, and $100 for non-citizens to be seen. He's not using universal healthcare (what he disagrees with) he's using private healthcare, which he very much agrees with. No hypocrisy. Are you a Kentuckian represented by Rand Paul? He saying there is no good healthcare choice for him in Kentucky for what sounds to be a routine hernia operation. He does not advocate for better healthcare for all Kentuckians, so YES, HE IS A HYPOCRITE! As a U.S. citizen, he is saying there is no good healthcare choice for him in the U.S. He does not advocate for better healthcare for all Americans, so YES, HE IS A HYPOCRITE! He is taking American dollars out of the country for his healthcare...HYPOCRITE.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 20:38:28 GMT
To be fair, he doesn't fully agree with the U.S. health "system" either, so essentially, there isn't a system he'd be fully in agreement with. As I see it, he's doing what actually comes closest to a libertarian standpoint by paying out of pocket for something he needs/wants. Also, since it won't be a claim against his Congressional insurance, doesn't that theoretically save taxpayer dollars? (That's not meant to be argumentative, just how I thought insurance worked *theoretically*) Yes, that's how it works.
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Post by frenchie on Jan 17, 2019 5:08:48 GMT
He's not using universal healthcare (what he disagrees with) he's using private healthcare, which he very much agrees with. No hypocrisy. Are you a Kentuckian represented by Rand Paul? He saying there is no good healthcare choice for him in Kentucky for what sounds to be a routine hernia operation. He does not advocate for better healthcare for all Kentuckians, so YES, HE IS A HYPOCRITE! As a U.S. citizen, he is saying there is no good healthcare choice for him in the U.S. He does not advocate for better healthcare for all Americans, so YES, HE IS A HYPOCRITE! He is taking American dollars out of the country for his healthcare...HYPOCRITE. I would agree with you if he was getting all of his medical care in Canada or other foreign countries, but he is choosing to have 1 procedure done in a private, for-profit hospital in Canada. Done by a very skilled surgeon who does not use mesh-which is not the norm here in the US. I don't think that is saying that there is no good medical care in the US. I've had 2 hernia surgeries done (both with mesh), and if I could go get them redone without it, I'd go anywhere to do it. I wouldn't call the procedure he is having routine-at least, a non mesh hernia repair is not routine here.
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FurryP
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Post by FurryP on Jan 17, 2019 6:42:24 GMT
He is using a system he disagrees with... while this specific clinic may be partially private, it is still part of our overall health care system. And he’d pay for medical care at any other clinic or hospital in Canada, too. If any non-citizen in Canada needed health care, you could obtain it by paying for it. For example, I know the clinic I go charges $50 for Canadians if you don’t have your health card with you, and $100 for non-citizens to be seen.Part 1: Does that apply to the emergency room also? Part 2: Do Canadians have some sort of proof of citizenship they carry around? How would the clinic know if you are really a citizen or not? And this is just random: Is it true that in Canada, U.S. sweatpants are called ball pants? We had a Canadian visitor and he called them ball pants. We thought it was funny.
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chico
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Post by chico on Jan 17, 2019 7:01:09 GMT
To be fair, he doesn't fully agree with the U.S. health "system" either, so essentially, there isn't a system he'd be fully in agreement with. As I see it, he's doing what actually comes closest to a libertarian standpoint by paying out of pocket for something he needs/wants. Also, since it won't be a claim against his Congressional insurance, doesn't that theoretically save taxpayer dollars? (That's not meant to be argumentative, just how I thought insurance worked *theoretically*) This!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 14:38:11 GMT
To be fair, he doesn't fully agree with the U.S. health "system" either, so essentially, there isn't a system he'd be fully in agreement with. As I see it, he's doing what actually comes closest to a libertarian standpoint by paying out of pocket for something he needs/wants. Also, since it won't be a claim against his Congressional insurance, doesn't that theoretically save taxpayer dollars? (That's not meant to be argumentative, just how I thought insurance worked *theoretically*) There is no system that most people "fully agree with" so that point is moot. He is using a system he has denigrated and implied is not as good as the US system and now admits, in some cases, is BETTER than the vaunted US system - where money should mean he can buy the best health care right here. Karma.
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valincal
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Post by valincal on Jan 17, 2019 17:06:51 GMT
He is using a system he disagrees with... while this specific clinic may be partially private, it is still part of our overall health care system. And he’d pay for medical care at any other clinic or hospital in Canada, too. If any non-citizen in Canada needed health care, you could obtain it by paying for it. For example, I know the clinic I go charges $50 for Canadians if you don’t have your health card with you, and $100 for non-citizens to be seen.Part 1: Does that apply to the emergency room also? Part 2: Do Canadians have some sort of proof of citizenship they carry around? How would the clinic know if you are really a citizen or not? And this is just random: Is it true that in Canada, U.S. sweatpants are called ball pants? We had a Canadian visitor and he called them ball pants. We thought it was funny. 1. I’m fairly sure you can pay cash at the emergency room too. 2. We show our health care card and a photo ID here in Alberta. 3. I’ve never heard of ball pants. Except maybe those white cropped ones that baseball players wear? Everybody I know calls casual fleece pants sweatpants.
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Post by artgirl1 on Jan 17, 2019 19:11:31 GMT
Also, since it won't be a claim against his Congressional insurance, doesn't that theoretically save taxpayer dollars? (That's not meant to be argumentative, just how I thought insurance worked No that is not how it works. The premiums for the insurance are charged each month/year, depending on the carrier. No discounts if you do not use it. So his insurance is still paid for by the taxpayers whether he uses it or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 22:20:20 GMT
Also, since it won't be a claim against his Congressional insurance, doesn't that theoretically save taxpayer dollars? (That's not meant to be argumentative, just how I thought insurance worked No that is not how it works. The premiums for the insurance are charged each month/year, depending on the carrier. No discounts if you do not use it. So his insurance is still paid for by the taxpayers whether he uses it or not. Insurance premiums stay lower (theoretically) when there are fewer claims made. No confusion about who pays those premiums.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 17, 2019 23:08:28 GMT
He can stay in Canada. Bye.
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