Seriously...ignore

For the record I'm saying the same - I've seen both scenerios as why I stated the conditions of both.  They are similar and Drs had given us several scenerios. I wouldn't have judged her maybe that's where the compassion comes into play and it's hard to say what would NOT be ok. But I don't think that's up to the goverment either. I don't know how to explain that part of it. As I don't want to make it sound like I am.

So are you pro-choice or pro-life (pro-birth), then? Because right now, under pro-choice laws, the government isn't telling you which decision is okay. But pro-life legislation would put the decision in the hands of the government, by outlawing any decision except "carry to term or die trying".

During my career as a midwife I have delivered maybe 5 anencephalic babies. Believe me, you would not deny a woman the right to chose a late abortion if you had been present at these harrowing births.

dudleypippen Thank you for being there for women who go through this horrific thing.

melissa Well said - as always - and I will read Dr. Gunter later when I am calmer. I get very frustrated when (it feels to me) uneducated people spout on and yet no one has the access to the birth control and health care that they need.

My first cousin did that. Twins. The boy lived 48 minutes and the girl lived 52 minutes. She only had her immediate family in the room. To this day I am not sure how she explained all of it to her then 6 year old daughter.

I also had a friend who chose a mid term termination for one a trisomy baby (one of the ones that only live a couple of days up to a couple of months often in pain). I am not sure the specifics but the baby has a grave site with a gravestone.

Being honest I personally wish she hadn't chosen to terminate because I see on FB where she still struggles with that choice 20 years later. Her faith was completely destroyed with that diagnosis and in the aftermath of her choice. I do understand her not wanting to birth a baby only to have it suffer for it's very short lifespan. Either choice she would of made was heart breaking really.

It's not a secret I am pro-life but I lean on the side of wanting women to choose birth over termination but not to the point of legislating that choice. I am not sure if that makes sense.

Like a lot of hot topic issues discussing/debating/analyzing them in broad strokes is pretty cut and dry. But when you start looking at individual situations and the circumstances it's not so easy. Even comparing this with something like medical care. Most of my circle are pretty far on the right about what they refer to as "socialized" medicine. But then when you see a child with a rare disorder, or a burn victim, or a someone you love with cancer and these families have no money it's very hard to say "if you can't pay you can't get treatment". When you put faces to the situations it's not quite so easy sometimes.

I am approaching menopause but as my doctor often reminds me, still fertile. and I have already had all the children I am going to have. I am too advanced in my years to start again, if I were pregnant tomorrow my first call would be to the abortion clinic. I have living breathing children in my home, and I know the difference between a fetus in my uterus and my 11 year old. The difference is that while the 11 year old is just the fetus plus time, the fetus can’t survive outside my body. It means I think I have more “say” about what happens to the fetus, the closer to viability it gets the less say I think I have except there are certainly extraordinary circumstances there as well. I have zero moral qualms about early abortion or later abortion in serious circumstances. I don’t think it’s sad, I think it’s something women have done forever, long before Roe, and for the same reasons all along and I am glad now it can be done easily and sanitary and without risking women’s lives.

Meanwhile my family member is 20 years younger than me and is having fertility problems. These are unrelated. I think adoption is a very good thing but it isn’t the right decision for every person. I don’t think we should expect women facing unexpected pregnancies to be incubators for infertile women unless they themselves choose it and even then I think it is sometimes coercive.

Exactly- just because the OP’s fervent belief is that way doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone else and that’s the point - you shouldn’t try to make everyone live by ‘your’ beliefs, however strongly you feel it. Live that way for yourself and let others make their own decisions.

Just to add, that you have obviously suffered real heartache and of course those losses were your babies. No question about that and I am sorry for your losses. However your story isn’t everyone’s story.

I am fully educated on the very fact thank you! I see it differently most do. Yes she was given the option to abort- his quality of life being born a rare heart condition.20 yrs ago ,things were different but they still saved him.And due to fading heart and multiple risky surgeries.

Country Ham, I really appreciate your nuanced view on these subjects. Thank you for sharing.

(Now I am going to ramble, and this is not directed at you personally. Feel free to ignore.)

I agree that putting faces on an an issue can change people's view. For me, this has not only been true for women who choose abortion, but also for LGBT folks, undocumented immigrants, Muslims, people in poverty who struggle to find and keep work with a living wage, and others. I think it is so important to meet and get to know people whose life experiences are vastly different from our own, and for them to know us. Working in urban public schools has given me that opportunity and, I believe, has changed me for the better.

Though I am often critical of conservatives in general here, or specific conservative politicians, living in Texas puts individual faces on conservatism for me as well. I cannot step foot outside without seeing a Republican candidate sticker or t-shirt, often attached to the car or person of one of the nicest people I know. So there's that. I'm aware of the disconnect between some of the views I express here and my personal experiences in real life, and it's something I struggle with. (I don't believe the GOP in Washington or Texas reflects the views of most real-life conservatives, just as AOC frankly doesn't reflect the views of most people who identify as liberal.)

One of the things I admired most about Beto's campaign was the enormous effort he made to meet and speak to Texans from all walks of life and all backgrounds. He spoke with Republicans and Democrats and everyone in between. He spoke with people of all colors and many nationalities. I felt like his policy positions came from a place of wanting to understand and serve everyone, and that was meaningful to me. I was sad that he didn't win, not only because I don't agree with Cruz's policy positions, but because I felt like it meant a majority of Texans are still not interested in knowing and understanding people unlike themselves, and that just doesn't jive with what I know of Texas and Texans.

Anyway. That's my ramble. I think talking to each other is good, and I will try harder to listen more than I write. I do wish that more religious conservatives here in Texas were able to take a nuanced view like yours, because we still hear a lot of "baby killer" talk right up to the highest levels of our state government. It's very disheartening.

Thank you for sharing your truth. I stand with you in solidarity, and will always vote and act to protect the reproductive freedom of all women. 

I am so incredibly lucky that I was never in the position where I had an unwanted pregnancy. Unplanned, perhaps, but in a long-term, stable marriage, conceived in an act of love.

I cannot imagine being so arrogant as to say definitively what I would or would not do. I don’t *think* I could have an abortion, but I was never pregnant because I was raped. I was never pregnant when I was a teenager. I was never pregnant when I didn’t have a partner. I was never pregnant when I was homeless. I was never pregnant with a terminally ill baby. I was never pregnant when I was at my last, struggling to hold on to any sense of sanity, while trying to provide for the children I already had, who needed food, shelter, and love.

I am so incredibly lucky, but not everyone is.