cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jun 25, 2019 3:29:00 GMT
Ravelry is absolutely right. More should follow suit.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,143
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Jun 25, 2019 3:35:15 GMT
Who would have thought Neo Nazies were into knitting and crochet!
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Post by shessoaverage on Jun 25, 2019 3:42:25 GMT
I would be curious to know about how this became an issue. Patterns, posts, both? I mean, did people have confederate flag patterns? How did this happen? Before I decided to take a break from Facebook, on one of the crochet groups I was on a person made a “graphgan” (The stitcher works from a graph and each stitch is like a pixel in an image) of Trump’s face. Imagine looking at that for the months it would take to complete such a project. Would you throw it over the back of your sofa? Sleep under it?
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Post by chances on Jun 25, 2019 4:15:50 GMT
You know someone's out there knitting a confederate flag toaster cozy. I know the two of you are making jokes, but you are not far off the mark about some of the patterns that led up to this policy. I was curious about what they meant by pro-Trump patterns. This is so distressing : (
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 25, 2019 6:48:45 GMT
Just to be clear here... is considered hate speech. While are not hate speech.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jun 25, 2019 7:18:08 GMT
Just to be clear here... is considered hate speech. While are not hate speech. Ravelry never classified pro-Trump speech as "hate speech". They said simply that they are banning pro-Trump speech from their site. They cited inclusivity, which I assume means they want to be sure that their LGBTQIA and members of color feel welcome in the Ravelry community. I don't think "Fuck Trump", a middle finger next to the number 45, and a trump doll qualify as hate speech, legally or even semantically, really. (The doll is an especially odd choice if you are attempting to highlight the supposed hate speech that is allowed on Ravelry; I don't understand what you find so offensive about it.) I would say the same if you replaced Trump with Obama in this scenario. It is not a crime to dislike the president. Nor is it a crime to decide what you want to do with your own private business. If you don't like Ravelry's decision, don't patronize them anymore. And before it's mentioned: no, this is not like denying a gay couple a wedding cake. Businesses do not have the right to discriminate against protected classes in this country. Trump supporters are not a protected class.
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Post by heather on Jun 25, 2019 8:43:52 GMT
Just to be clear here... is considered hate speech. While are not hate speech. Ravelry never classified pro-Trump speech as "hate speech". They said simply that they are banning pro-Trump speech from their site. They cited inclusivity, which I assume means they want to be sure that their LGBTQIA and members of color feel welcome in the Ravelry community. I don't think "Fuck Trump", a middle finger and the number 45 and a trump doll qualify as hate speech, legally or even semantically, really. (The doll is an especially odd choice if you are attempting to highlight the supposed hate speech that is allowed on Ravelry; I don't understand what you find so offensive about it.) I would say the same if you replaced Trump with Obama in this scenario. It is not a crime to dislike the president. Nor is it a crime to decide what you want to do with your own private business. If you don't like Ravelry's decision, don't patronize them anymore. And before it's mentioned: no, this is not like denying a gay couple a wedding cake. Businesses do not have the right to discriminate against protected classes in this country. Trump supporters are not a protected class. It went way beyond that. The founder’s wife was being harassed by pro trump supporters. Pro trump supporters were doxxing posters and encouraging harassment. This went way beyond a few patterns here and there. I’m good with ‘Fuck Trump’ patterns. Fuck white nationalism. Fuck putting babies in cages. Fuck his anti-LGBQT policies. Fuck his pussy grabbing assaults. There are NOT fine people on both sides. I’m tired of the false equivalencies.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 9:33:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 9:28:00 GMT
Another group I'm part of, not for knitting another hobby of mine, bans all political and religious posts, and it's kind of nice to not have the drama. This makes a lot more sense to me. I have no dog in this fight...I don't knit, have never been on ravelry, am not a trump supporter and I know it's their site and they can do as they wish. But banning just pro-trump stuff rubs me the wrong way. It's like they're basically saying if your political views don't match mine don't post; it's ok to bash him but no one is allowed to support him. Ban all political talk, kick off those who post offensive stuff, etc. but this just doesn't sit right with me. Would it be ok if admin here said no negative trump posts...you can post positive things about him but nothing negative. Can you imagine the uproar?Just playing devils advocate, again, I have no dog in this fight and don't really care one way or another what they do there. And rarely post in the political posts here either. I don't consider that they are comparable with what Raverly has done. They haven't, as far as I can see banned general political posts. What they have done is banned the glorification of a morally bereft person who goes by the name of Trump and his equally supporting administration who has consistently refused to condemn his followers' support of white supremacy.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 9:33:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 10:02:57 GMT
Who would have thought Neo Nazies were into knitting and crochet! You'd be surprised, they are no different to many other groups that get infiltrated by someone who has a "just cause" to try and spread their beliefs. The Organisation for The Prevention of Violence (OPV) suggests the availability of white supremacist materials online, the ability to connect with like-minded people and potential recruits and the general social interaction afforded by the internet has been “a game changer” for the white supremacist movement. Forums, blogs etc allow established veterans of the various movements access to new and potential recruits, and allows them greater degree of freedom where they can express views and opinions that would be seen as offensive in much of society. They don't find their followers face to face, they find them on line and the hate spreads........everywhere not just in the US.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 25, 2019 10:04:36 GMT
I would be curious to know about how this became an issue. Patterns, posts, both? I mean, did people have confederate flag patterns? How did this happen? Before I decided to take a break from Facebook, on one of the crochet groups I was on a person made a “graphgan” (The stitcher works from a graph and each stitch is like a pixel in an image) of Trump’s face. Imagine looking at that for the months it would take to complete such a project. Would you throw it over the back of your sofa? Sleep under it? 😳😳. Yikes.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 25, 2019 10:12:27 GMT
Just to be clear here... is considered hate speech. While are not hate speech. Well, trump himself considers the news outlets, who report FACTS on his epic lies to be hate speech... it’s amazing how the trump apologists keep trying to “own the libs” especially when their own house is a clusterfuck.
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Post by gar on Jun 25, 2019 10:30:22 GMT
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,011
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 25, 2019 11:39:34 GMT
Just to be clear here... is considered hate speech. While are not hate speech. You've chosen a side and that's fine. But please don't pretend that you don't understand the distinction. Or more to the point, Trump defenders can keep pretending this is just about politics and the hurt feelings of liberal snowflakes but literally no one else in the rest of the civilized world is buying it. We know what white nationalism is. We know what concentration camps are. This is so far beyond whether you are on the blue or red team. Far right militia members in Oregon have basically declared themselves a sovereign state (again) literally taking up arms against the elected government but some people think the outrage is a social media site banning support of white nationalism. It's beyond ludicrous.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 26, 2019 3:59:19 GMT
Ravelry never classified pro-Trump speech as "hate speech". You are wrong. This is the cowl that was considered such hateful speech that Ravelry has now shut down boards and booted people from its site. Again, this is considered hate speech in America today.
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Post by busy on Jun 26, 2019 4:18:35 GMT
Ravelry never classified pro-Trump speech as "hate speech". You are wrong. This is the cowl that was considered such hateful speech that Ravelry has now shut down boards and booted people from its site. Again, this is considered hate speech in America today. It doesn’t matter if a privately owned message board calls that hate speech. Legally, it’s not hate speech. It’s also 100% legal for Ravelry to decide what content is allowed on their site, as long as they’re not discriminating against a protected class.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jun 26, 2019 4:34:19 GMT
Ravelry never classified pro-Trump speech as "hate speech". You are wrong. This is the cowl that was considered such hateful speech that Ravelry has now shut down boards and booted people from its site. Again, this is considered hate speech in America today. Can you please show me where Ravelry said pro-Trump speech is hate speech? Interesting that you've failed to comment on the fact that Trump supporters have doxxed, stalked and harassed the owner and his wife. Would you agree those actions are hateful?
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jun 26, 2019 4:49:48 GMT
Just an aside, I think the Trump matryoshka is hilarious.
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Post by Merge on Jun 26, 2019 5:58:26 GMT
Ravelry never classified pro-Trump speech as "hate speech". You are wrong. This is the cowl that was considered such hateful speech that Ravelry has now shut down boards and booted people from its site. Again, this is considered hate speech in America today. It is, because it shows support for a regime that is actively working to subvert the rights and freedom of women, gays and minorities, and is committing human rights atrocities on our southern border. Showing support for those values is a form of hate speech. I know Trump supporters like to see themselves as regular folks with a different political opinion, but the rest of the country ( and indeed much of the world) does not see it that way. You cannot support a regime that argues that incarcerated children do not have a right to basic hygiene items (just the latest example) and call yourself just another political movement. The Trump regime is based on hate and cruelty. I totally support private companies deplatforming supporters of the regime whenever possible. We can’t let Trumpism become normalized.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 26, 2019 11:01:54 GMT
If the hat/cowl is now considered hate speech, what is what trump says and tweets called???
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Post by mustlovecats on Jun 26, 2019 11:18:07 GMT
Ravelry never classified pro-Trump speech as "hate speech". They said simply that they are banning pro-Trump speech from their site. They cited inclusivity, which I assume means they want to be sure that their LGBTQIA and members of color feel welcome in the Ravelry community. I don't think "Fuck Trump", a middle finger and the number 45 and a trump doll qualify as hate speech, legally or even semantically, really. (The doll is an especially odd choice if you are attempting to highlight the supposed hate speech that is allowed on Ravelry; I don't understand what you find so offensive about it.) I would say the same if you replaced Trump with Obama in this scenario. It is not a crime to dislike the president. Nor is it a crime to decide what you want to do with your own private business. If you don't like Ravelry's decision, don't patronize them anymore. And before it's mentioned: no, this is not like denying a gay couple a wedding cake. Businesses do not have the right to discriminate against protected classes in this country. Trump supporters are not a protected class. It went way beyond that. The founder’s wife was being harassed by pro trump supporters. Pro trump supporters were doxxing posters and encouraging harassment. This went way beyond a few patterns here and there. I’m good with ‘Fuck Trump’ patterns. Fuck white nationalism. Fuck putting babies in cages. Fuck his anti-LGBQT policies. Fuck his pussy grabbing assaults. There are NOT fine people on both sides. I’m tired of the false equivalencies. ***applause***
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sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,409
Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Jun 26, 2019 11:30:45 GMT
If the hat/cowl is now considered hate speech, what is what trump says and tweets called??? So far, thank goodness, Trump has not posted on Ravelry.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 26, 2019 13:17:10 GMT
I’m not going to cry any crocodile tears for Trump supporters. They are, after all, free to create their own knitting site. Frankly, I feel that Trump is dangerous to this country. Even though I did not like GWB, I have never before felt this way about a Republican. I cannot blame Ravelry or anyone else who feels this way, since I share their apprehension and dislike of this President.
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Post by elaine on Jun 26, 2019 14:06:29 GMT
You are wrong. This is the cowl that was considered such hateful speech that Ravelry has now shut down boards and booted people from its site. Again, this is considered hate speech in America today. Can you please show me where Ravelry said pro-Trump speech is hate speech? Interesting that you've failed to comment on the fact that Trump supporters have doxxed, stalked and harassed the owner and his wife. Would you agree those actions are hateful?It is also of note that Ravelry is free to use for members. What keeps it running is the capital that Casey initially put into the site and now the advertising fees and the commission on pattern sales that he re-invests. It is his bank account that keeps the site going. If members of a group of people are going to physically and otherwise harass him and his family, he has every right to deny that group a platform on the website that he finances. Those people can remain members of the Ravelry community as long as they don’t talk THERE supporting Trump and his administration, or post patterns and projects that do so. His site, his rules. Nowhere has Ravelry labeled Trump support as “hate speech” no matter how many times someone wants to say so. Kind of like Trump’s inauguration didn’t have the biggest audience ever, no matter how much Trump says so. Casey has decided that the site doesn’t want to give White Supremacy a platform on his site and he (and many others) view Trump and his administration as White Supremacists and/or supporters. That is different than labeling something as “hate speech.” I wouldn’t think that would need to be explained several times. Trump supporters are free to start and pay for their own yarn and fiber website. Granted, it won’t have the international draw that Ravelry has, as no other country, except maybe Saudi Arabia, is as in love with this administration as are the White Supremacists here in the USA. One of the things that I really love about Ravelry is that it is the one online community that I belong to that has a strong international membership.
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oaksong
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,167
Location: LA Suburbia
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2014 6:24:29 GMT
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Post by oaksong on Jun 26, 2019 16:50:51 GMT
Lots of Twitter threads are wondering why a knitting website is talking politics. I was tempted to post "you should see our scrapbooking board" but I didn't want to attract the attention. Women have opinions and like to share them with others online. Who knew?
I wholeheartedly agree with the ban. Pretending like it's about hat patterns with Trump's name is completely beside the point. This current administration is an abomination that is against our Constitution, democracy, human rights, liberty and common decency. Any business willing to risk standing up to the crazies is to be applauded.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Jun 26, 2019 17:21:12 GMT
My mom was a big one on Ravelry. Before she passed. I think it sort of helped made her from ultra conservative to ultra libral. One of the ladies on their made me a prayer shawl. I'm not sure if I agree with the move but I understand. I know to stay out if it now as my thoughts don't always come across as I wish. But I know they were a very big spot in my heart and hers. Just like here.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 26, 2019 17:26:33 GMT
Lots of Twitter threads are wondering why a knitting website is talking politics. I was tempted to post "you should see our scrapbooking board" but I didn't want to attract the attention. Women have opinions and like to share them with others online. Who knew? I wholeheartedly agree with the ban. Pretending like it's about hat patterns with Trump's name is completely beside the point. This current administration is an abomination that is against our Constitution, democracy, human rights, liberty and common decency. Any business willing to risk standing up to the crazies is to be applauded. I agree. It is risky to ban Trump supporters, especially since this ban has gotten a lot of coverage. So kudos to the owner of the site. 👏🏻
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Post by elaine on Jun 26, 2019 18:56:03 GMT
My mom was a big one on Ravelry. Before she passed. I think it sort of helped made her from ultra conservative to ultra libral. One of the ladies on their made me a prayer shawl. I'm not sure if I agree with the move but I understand. I know to stay out if it now as my thoughts don't always come across as I wish. But I know they were a very big spot in my heart and hers. Just like here. Ravelry is a HUGE site with hundreds of sub-boards. I never discuss/have discussed politics there. If you ever wanted to participate there, you certainly could spend all your time on crochet/knitting/weaving/spinning boards and not worry about politics.
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Post by pierogi on Jun 26, 2019 19:03:13 GMT
You are wrong. This is the cowl that was considered such hateful speech that Ravelry has now shut down boards and booted people from its site. Again, this is considered hate speech in America today. It is, because it shows support for a regime that is actively working to subvert the rights and freedom of women, gays and minorities, and is committing human rights atrocities on our southern border. Showing support for those values is a form of hate speech. I know Trump supporters like to see themselves as regular folks with a different political opinion, but the rest of the country ( and indeed much of the world) does not see it that way. You cannot support a regime that argues that incarcerated children do not have a right to basic hygiene items (just the latest example) and call yourself just another political movement. The Trump regime is based on hate and cruelty. I totally support private companies deplatforming supporters of the regime whenever possible. We can’t let Trumpism become normalized. Absolutely. I would also consider a hat that says “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer“ equally hateful. It’s what it stands for, and the disingenuousness of the Trump supporters/apologists on this thread is comical. Don’t buy it for a second.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Jun 26, 2019 19:11:10 GMT
My mom was a big one on Ravelry. Before she passed. I think it sort of helped made her from ultra conservative to ultra libral. One of the ladies on their made me a prayer shawl. I'm not sure if I agree with the move but I understand. I know to stay out if it now as my thoughts don't always come across as I wish. But I know they were a very big spot in my heart and hers. Just like here. Ravelry is a HUGE site with hundreds of sub-boards. I never discuss/have discussed politics there. If you ever wanted to participate there, you certainly could spend all your time on crochet/knitting/weaving/spinning boards and not worry about politics. That's soo true!! She used to dye her own wool and spin and everything.. at the end it was all she did. BTW so nice too see you!!
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jun 26, 2019 21:51:14 GMT
Interestingly, the subreddit devoted to Trump has been quarantined as of this morning. They were calling for violence against police officers in Oregon, among other things.
It took long enough, that place has been a cesspool for a long time.
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