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Nov 2, 2024 9:38:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 5:05:34 GMT
Evangelical Writer Who Pushed Purity Culture, Announces Separation From Wife "What exactly did Harris advocate for when I Kissed Dating Goodbye came out in the late 1990s? The book in some ways is about sex. It's an abstinence manifesto. The idea was that having sex, even with a serious boyfriend or girlfriend, before you were married could lead to lasting regret. Harris even argued it's better not to even kiss before you got married. Just the idea that God wants you to be pure on your wedding day. But the argument was really about marriage. The idea was that modern dating is spiritually corrosive in a way because you're sort of practicing breaking up. You're rehearsing for divorce. The bigger implication was kind of that there was a formula to a good marriage and if you followed this set of rules and restrained yourself enough and behaved in exactly the right way, you would have a foundation for a lasting marriage and a happy marriage." Yeah, no. It doesn't work that way. As Harris himself concedes now, almost 2 decades after making purity synonymous w/lasting marriage: "I think it's made us realize how there's heartache and there's pain no matter which pathway you choose in life," Harris said. "There's no path that you can choose that can protect you from that." www.npr.org/2019/07/21/743926857/evangelical-writer-who-influenced-purity-culture-announces-separation-from-wifeI remember the purity push back in the early-mid-90's. Grossed me out then as it does now. As if a woman's (and always the focus was on the woman) worth lay much more between her legs than between her ears or inside her heart. If you want to be abstinent until marriage - GREAT!! But not because it's flogged into you by some 23-yo know nothing who thinks he's discovered that the path to happy lasting marriage runs up a woman's agency and ability to choose for herself. I don't know who I feel sorrier for, Harris and his hubris (at least back then) or the unthinking people who thought "What's the secret to a happy, lasting marriage?!??! I know, I'll buy a book and world view from a 23-yo self-proclaimed expert" ------------ "I am learning that no group has the market cornered on grace. This week I’ve received grace from Christians, atheists, evangelicals, exvangelicals, straight people, LGBTQ people, and everyone in-between. Of course there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people. While not always pleasant, I know they are seeking to love me. (There have also been spiteful, hateful comments that angered and hurt me.) The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now. Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance. There’s beauty in that sentiment regardless of your view of God. I have lived in repentance for the past several years—repenting of my self-righteousness, my fear-based approach to life, the teaching of my books, my views of women in the church, and my approach to parenting to name a few. But I specifically want to add to this list now: to the LGBTQ+ community, I want to say that I am sorry for the views that I taught in my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality. I regret standing against marriage equality, for not affirming you and your place in the church, and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive me. To my Christians friends, I am grateful for your prayers. Don’t take it personally if I don’t immediately return calls. I can’t join in your mourning. I don’t view this moment negatively. I feel very much alive, and awake, and surprisingly hopeful. I believe with my sister Julian that, “All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.”" Wow. http://instagram.com/p/B0ZBrNLH2sl |
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Post by beaglemom on Jul 22, 2019 5:10:51 GMT
I remember being given this book when I went off to college. It was a big deal in the circles I was in. So much power and guilt around sexuality in the evangelical church.
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 22, 2019 5:22:33 GMT
Yes, those teachings didn't f*ck! me up at all. While kissing was okay, pretty much everything else was not.
“To the youth of the Church we … plead with you to live clean, for the unclean life leads only to suffering, misery, and woe physically,—and spiritually it is the path to destruction. How glorious and near to the angels is youth that is clean. … Sexual purity is youth’s most precious possession; it is the foundation of all righteousness. …
“You youths of Zion, you cannot associate in non-marital, illicit sex relationships, which is fornication, and escape the punishments and the judgments which the Lord has declared against this sin. The day of reckoning will come just as certainly as night follows day.” (Messages, 6:176.)
The full force of his actions was obvious to my tearful friend, who understood, at last, the reality of Alma’s words: “Wickedness never was happiness.” (Alma 41:10.)
“And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.” (3 Ne. 27:19.)
The more I see of life, the more I am convinced that we must impress you young people with the awfulness of sin rather than to content ourselves with merely teaching the way of repentance. I wish that someone could warn you of the night of hell that follows the committing of a moral sin …, as one who has sinned has described it in these words: ‘No one knew anything about it. You told no one, and no one found out, no one condemned. But your face flushed, your heart beat against your ribs. Perspiration broke out upon your brow. You went to bed that night, you tied a bandage around the eyes of your soul, you built a little shelter in which to hide, you tried to sleep, but no sleep came. You said to yourself, “Other people do it,” or “I had to do it,” or “No one else can ever find it out.” But there were hands from the unseen world that came through the darkness and tore the bandage from the eyes of the soul, and smashed down the little shelter you had made for your cowering spirit.’”
This was the start of many general conference talks from age 12 to 18.
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 22, 2019 5:23:45 GMT
“I’m a little older than any of you here tonight, and I want to just say that I will soon go into another year and that I have never tasted tea, nor coffee, nor tobacco, nor liquor of any kind, nor drugs. Now that may sound very presumptuous and boasting to you, but I am only trying to make this point: that if every boy and girl—as he or she begins to grow a little more mature and becomes a little more independent of his friends and his family and all—if every boy and girl would make up his or her mind, ‘I will not yield,’ then no matter what the temptation is: ‘I made up my mind. That’s settled.’” (In
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 22, 2019 5:25:38 GMT
My heart reaches out to those among us, especially our single sisters, who long for marriage and cannot seem to find it. Our Father in Heaven reserves for them every promised blessing. I have far less sympathy for the young men, who under the customs of our society, have the prerogative to take the initiative in these matters but in so many cases fail to do so. Strong words have been spoken to them in the past by Presidents of this church.
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 22, 2019 5:34:24 GMT
Outside the bonds of marriage, all uses of the procreative power are to one degree or another a sinful degrading and perversion of the most divine attribute of men and women.
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 22, 2019 5:35:21 GMT
The Book of Mormon teaches that unchastity is “most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost” (Alma 39:5). In our own day, the First Presidency of the Church has declared the doctrine of this Church “that sexual sin—the illicit sexual relations of men and women—stands, in its enormity, next to murder” (“Message of the First Presidency,” 3 Oct. 1942, as quoted in Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, comp. James R. Clark, 6 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965–75, 6:176). Some who do not know the plan of salvation behave like promiscuous animals, but Latter-day Saints—especially those who are under sacred covenants—have no such latitude. We are solemnly responsible to God for the destruction or misuse of the creative powers he has placed within us.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Jul 22, 2019 10:57:44 GMT
Evangelical Writer Who Pushed Purity Culture, Announces Separation From Wife I like to think I'm a basically good person at heart, but I'll freely admit to little frisson of delight when I hear of someone this sanctimonious getting a bit of an comeuppance. |
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,917
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jul 22, 2019 11:06:47 GMT
Evangelical Writer Who Pushed Purity Culture, Announces Separation From Wife I like to think I'm a basically good person at heart, but I'll freely admit to little frisson of delight when I hear of someone this sanctimonious getting a bit of an comeuppance. As my sister says: "I'm schadenfreuding all over the place." |
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,190 
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Post by pilcas on Jul 22, 2019 11:17:52 GMT
“I’m a little older than any of you here tonight, and I want to just say that I will soon go into another year and that I have never tasted tea, nor coffee, nor tobacco, nor liquor of any kind, nor drugs. Now that may sound very presumptuous and boasting to you, but I am only trying to make this point: that if every boy and girl—as he or she begins to grow a little more mature and becomes a little more independent of his friends and his family and all—if every boy and girl would make up his or her mind, ‘I will not yield,’ then no matter what the temptation is: ‘I made up my mind. That’s settled.’” (In Lol! You have no idea what you are missing! |
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Jul 22, 2019 11:32:08 GMT
As my sister says: "I'm schadenfreuding all over the place."  |
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StephDRebel
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,707
Location: Ohio
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Post by StephDRebel on Jul 22, 2019 12:20:56 GMT
His teachings and the way they were forced really, really fucked me up as an evangelical youth. Especially after I was raped.
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Post by Merge on Jul 22, 2019 12:33:33 GMT
I’ve got a bit of the schadenfreude myself - purity culture was baked hard into the conservative catholic culture in which I was raised. It’s so damaging - particularly the idea that men/priests are the gateway for a woman to “repent” her “impurity.”
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Deleted
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Nov 2, 2024 9:38:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 12:39:08 GMT
His teachings and the way they were forced really, really fucked me up as an evangelical youth. Especially after I was raped. Dear StephDRebel. I'm so sorry. This makes me even happier knowing that you spend your days helping women be sex positive. You're amazing! |
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 22, 2019 12:47:52 GMT
The Book of Mormon teaches that unchastity is “most abominable above all sins ........ “that sexual sin—the illicit sexual relations of men and women—stands, in its enormity, next to murder” That is seriously fucked up. |
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Deleted
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Nov 2, 2024 9:38:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 16:08:07 GMT
A very heartfelt and interesting post from his wife. I hope she and others like her who know the "inside baseball" of the patriarchal mess of many evangelical "churches" write one mofo of a manifesto or musical or film. http://instagram.com/p/BzHnzx1nuUK |
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Post by mustlovecats on Jul 22, 2019 16:14:14 GMT
I read one of his later books in which he discussed his hesitation about his own work. Then I also watched a documentary film about him and this book in which he really grappled with the impact of it. I respect that he was willing to take that on at least.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 22, 2019 16:25:12 GMT
“I’m a little older than any of you here tonight, and I want to just say that I will soon go into another year and that I have never tasted tea, nor coffee, nor tobacco, nor liquor of any kind, nor drugs. Now that may sound very presumptuous and boasting to you, but I am only trying to make this point: that if every boy and girl—as he or she begins to grow a little more mature and becomes a little more independent of his friends and his family and all— if every boy and girl would make up his or her mind, ‘I will not yield,’ then no matter what the temptation is: ‘I made up my mind. That’s settled.’” (In is this from his book? if so, it's a crock. Because it WASN'T 'every boy and girl' making up their own mind, it was his book and this viewpoint being PUSHED on them, right? yeah, that was healthy for everyone involved. /s |
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Post by shescrafty on Jul 22, 2019 16:33:49 GMT
I always find it interesting when people like the purity author give advice when they haven’t even seen if what they are doing works.
I have a high school friend who remarried about 5 years ago. She runs a successful catering business in one city, and her husband lives in another city. They are together 50% of the time and share custody of his kids with his first wife. Yet she is regularly posting about what an amazing influence she has in shaping them and gives marriage advice and tells what she believes are the “secrets” to their happy marriage. But the reality is that she doesn’t have a lot of the stresses that go along with most marriages. I am constantly rolling my eyes at her posts.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
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Post by mallie on Jul 22, 2019 17:43:18 GMT
Amongst so much wrongness, one very significant error is the idea that chastity prior to marriage is some sort of vaccination against divorce. How idiotic and willfully ignorant of the facts.
I despise willful stupidity.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,230
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Post by Peamac on Jul 22, 2019 19:13:10 GMT
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 22, 2019 19:43:54 GMT
is this from his book? if so, it's a crock. Because it WASN'T 'every boy and girl' making up their own mind, it was his book and this viewpoint being PUSHED on them, right? yeah, that was healthy for everyone involved. /s Sorry I wasn't clear enough. No he's not Mormon and it doesn't come from his book but I was raised with a lot of the same teachings. All of those quotes were from General Conference (which is considered doctrine) from when I was a teen.
The LDS/Mormon church frequently changes its doctrine. I'm sure it's been toned down in the last 20 years, but all of that is still on their official website.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 22, 2019 19:45:12 GMT
thanks for the clarification about the book quotes.
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 22, 2019 19:47:02 GMT
Lol! You have no idea what you are missing! I have partaken of tea and wine. As a non consumer of alcohol until I was 40, it left me feeling odd after a couple of sips. I have enjoyed tea more at this point. I haven't drank coffee because I don't care for the smell. I might try one day, not because it's a sin.  |
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 22, 2019 19:55:45 GMT
particularly the idea that men/priests are the gateway for a woman to “repent” her “impurity.” Yes, it is disgusting considering they are to remain chaste, not marry, and most don't have a f**ing clue about relationships. In my church, bishops were married but had zero ecclesiastical training. My bishops have been government employees, farmers, some kind of job in the oil industry?, and there was a seminary teacher and institute teacher (LDS jobs). The seminary teacher didn't see the big deal about having my Autistic daughter baptized. My very black and white thinking daughter who is supposed to understand the "spirit" of the Holy Ghost.
I give credit to the Catholic church for not recording sins to the members permanent records, even after they have repented.
A very heartfelt and interesting post from his wife. I felt the exact same way, but it was mostly a huge relief. I didn't come from a place of prominence like she did in the Evangelical community though. |
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,398
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Post by cycworker on Jul 22, 2019 20:49:09 GMT
@stephdrebel - sending you love. You are amazing.
I feel badly for both of them. I hope they can continue to be friends, and that each will find happiness.
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craftymom101
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,789
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Post by craftymom101 on Jul 23, 2019 3:15:25 GMT
A friend of mine read the book and encouraged me to read it. I politely declined.
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Post by refugeepea on Jul 23, 2019 3:30:00 GMT
When you read articles like this, it's easy to see why people are leaving religion. From my experience, I personally cannot be a member of any church again. I don't need to give my time, my money, and my talents to prove my worthiness. I understand like minded people wanting to assemble, but it personally never did anything for me. It seems like service is a better way to show your appreciation and be Christlike.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 23, 2019 4:20:59 GMT
“I’m a little older than any of you here tonight, and I want to just say that I will soon go into another year and that I have never tasted tea, nor coffee, nor tobacco, nor liquor of any kind, nor drugs. Now that may sound very presumptuous and boasting to you, but I am only trying to make this point: that if every boy and girl—as he or she begins to grow a little more mature and becomes a little more independent of his friends and his family and all—if every boy and girl would make up his or her mind, ‘I will not yield,’ then no matter what the temptation is: ‘I made up my mind. That’s settled.’” (In Lol! You have no idea what you are missing! Those are not refugeepea’s own words. She’s quoting church leaders. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 2, 2024 9:38:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 4:45:54 GMT
"I am learning that no group has the market cornered on grace. This week I’ve received grace from Christians, atheists, evangelicals, exvangelicals, straight people, LGBTQ people, and everyone in-between. Of course there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people. While not always pleasant, I know they are seeking to love me. (There have also been spiteful, hateful comments that angered and hurt me.) The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now. Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance. There’s beauty in that sentiment regardless of your view of God. I have lived in repentance for the past several years—repenting of my self-righteousness, my fear-based approach to life, the teaching of my books, my views of women in the church, and my approach to parenting to name a few. But I specifically want to add to this list now: to the LGBTQ+ community, I want to say that I am sorry for the views that I taught in my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality. I regret standing against marriage equality, for not affirming you and your place in the church, and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive me. To my Christians friends, I am grateful for your prayers. Don’t take it personally if I don’t immediately return calls. I can’t join in your mourning. I don’t view this moment negatively. I feel very much alive, and awake, and surprisingly hopeful. I believe with my sister Julian that, “All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.”" Wow. http://instagram.com/p/B0ZBrNLH2sl |
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