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Post by gar on Jul 26, 2019 6:32:22 GMT
I guess it’s somewhat fitting that America as we know it stands to be taken down by a reality TV show host.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jul 26, 2019 13:15:28 GMT
They didn’t view slaves as people, but as animals/property. They dehumanized them. And it, unfortunately, has been proven that it is all too easy for people to hurt other people once they no longer view them as equal human beings with all the same feelings/thoughts/drives that the perpetrators have. Every single time you see one of these big news stories, it becomes obvious that the people behind them lack empathy for their fellow human being. The three frat boys who posed in front of the Emmett Till memorial - to them, he was "just another n&&gger" - he was not a young boy with feelings and hopes and dreams and a family that cared about him. His humanity was denied. For Jeffrey Epstein, these young girls weren't daughters, sisters, or people with their own feelings and desires - they were just pieces of ass to be used for their pleasure and discarded. The refugees being held in camps aren't mothers, fathers, sons, or daughters who have gone through hell for the chance to live in a safe place - they are just vermin trying to steal our jobs, little cockroaches scurrying around trying to make America dirty. Once you recognize the humanity of these people, it's difficult to hurt them, to rape them, to lock them in cages and treat them poorly - because you can imagine yourself in their situation. You can imagine your own child, your own mother or father in that cage. You can imagine the terror if your own son were dragged out and beat to death - his last minutes as he realized that no help was coming and that he was going to die in pain. You can imagine the terror if your own daughter were abused and raped by some old guy, her confusion about why this was happening to her - and the shame that it did. An Army psychologist who worked the Nuremberg trials said it best: "“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949)I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.” Get rid of empathy and you can do anything you like to your fellow human being. We (sadly) have plenty of people in America right now who not only would be willing to hurt others, they would relish the chance to do so. So my uncle then? As far as I know almost all of my extended family (aunts and uncles) voted for trump. (Based on various Facebook posts, no firm conversations). I just really can’t imagine that. I can’t imagine any family getting to this point. It might not be anyone in your family. But there are plenty of people out there who are absolutely ready and willing to go after those they don't agree with. There are armed vigilantes who have decided it is their duty to patrol the border to defend it from the refugees that they view as a threat. I've seen quite a few different instances online of groups who feel that they need to protect America from the "evil libs" and are looking forward to doing it. They would love the chance to shoot some soyboys and cucks and social jusstice workers and feminazis and whatever ever terms is being used these days. If you ever watch or listen to some of the right-wing big names, it is clear that they don't view their fellow Americans as "people who have a disagreement on how the country should be run" - they view them as an enemy that is going to need to be destroyed, almost certainly through violence. Have you seen the NRA videos? They aren't calling for open dialog and mediation with those you disagree with.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Jul 26, 2019 18:48:04 GMT
Anything can happen, from contesting election results in the Supreme Court to precipitating an all-out civil war. Some of us have experienced the actual onslaught of hatred a deep division creates such as during the Civil Rights Movement. Then, battles weren’t just fought in newspapers and TV and Washington; they were fought in the streets with a stunning level of violence against civil rights activists.
We have three institutions that we depend on as the bulwarks against the erosion of democracy by an autocratic president – the courts, the press, and Congress. Examine the capabilities of each one of these institutions and ask yourself what they can do when masses of Americans turn against fellow Americans, and it’ll surprise you that there’s not much they can do once widespread violence erupts. Exactly what is it that would rein in a pathologically corrupt and authoritarian president who will refuse a peaceful transfer of power? Exactly what in his character and conduct would cause doubt in his power to incite a rebellion?
Have any of you watched a Trump rally from beginning to end? It’s formidable – it is both a crucible of hatred for others and a raucous celebration of base instincts, and it’s led by someone who has validated the expression of racial animus and grievances society had forced into silence. In a recent Florida rally, one of the most provocative moments was when Trump warned his supporters of what might happen if he’s defeated in 2020: “They are really going after you. They are trying to erase your legacy of the greatest campaign and the greatest election probably in the history of the country. They want to destroy you, and they want to destroy our country as we know it.”
Don’t discount anything.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,591
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jul 26, 2019 20:54:57 GMT
I USED to believe in checks and balances, no longer. Now I fear history really is repeating itself. Here's an article I recently read and it explains how ordinary people enable atrocities. This is how it happens. Step by step, we become the monsters. Look around the country. Try to remember how things were in 2012 or so. How many things that are simply accepted now, often with a “what can we do about it?” shrug, would have seemed possible then? "Send her back!"
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Post by lucyg on Jul 26, 2019 21:37:43 GMT
I USED to believe in checks and balances, no longer. Now I fear history really is repeating itself. Here's an article I recently read and it explains how ordinary people enable atrocities. This is how it happens. Step by step, we become the monsters. Look around the country. Try to remember how things were in 2012 or so. How many things that are simply accepted now, often with a “what can we do about it?” shrug, would have seemed possible then? "Send her back!"
"This is how it happens. Step by step, we become the monsters. Look around the country. Try to remember how things were in 2012 or so. How many things that are simply accepted now, often with a “what can we do about it?” shrug, would have seemed possible then?" I had to freakin’ join Quora to read that. But it was worth it. Thank you.
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mimima
Drama Llama
Stay Gold, Ponyboy
Posts: 5,073
Jun 25, 2014 19:25:50 GMT
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Post by mimima on Jul 26, 2019 22:44:39 GMT
Civil war? Seriously? I cannot see that happening here in this day and age. I just don’t think that family members are going to literally kill each other over stupid donald trump and the things he says. Nor do I think friends and neighbors will resort to violence with each other. I just don’t. What would be the end result with a civil war? Honestly, Facebook has taught me it is a very real possibility.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jul 26, 2019 23:44:30 GMT
I forget the name of the book, but I read an autobiography of a boy (now a man) who was a refugee during the Bosnian war. It was very interesting and sad and eye-opening to see how people who had been friends and neighbors all of a sudden...weren't. He talks about going to school as a child, when the class was a mixture and everyone got along. He played soccer with a local club and everyone was friends. And then the war started. He was no longer a part of the team, and his school was no longer safe for him as a Bosniak. But the most chilling part is when he writes about running into his former coach/teacher on the streets. He had worked with this person as a coach for several years. This time, the man held a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. Not a second of thought or remorse about the kid he used to know. The only reason the author survived is because the gun didn't fire. The kid was 12 at the time. Can you imagine the hatred that a grown man could do that to a 12 year old boy - one that he had known personally for years? It didn't matter - the man was a Serb, the boy was a Bosniak. We are us, and they are them. We have the right to everything, but they must be eradicated.
Here it is if you want to read it:
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 27, 2019 2:07:54 GMT
I, sadly, could see a Civil War of sorts break out if Trump is voted out of office. It won’t look like the one of the 19th Century, but a war nonetheless. Already we have ICE agents raiding communities and groups of people defending the people ICE are trying to take. It isn’t a big leap to groups of vigilantes, IMO, trying to get rid of the “others/illegals” and groups of other people defending them. I am not concerned that my neighbors will come after me, but there are others out there that do not know me who might! This mostly because I am not in trump country or nearby. So my uncle then? As far as I know almost all of my extended family (aunts and uncles) voted for trump. (Based on various Facebook posts, no firm conversations). I just really can’t imagine that. I can’t imagine any family getting to this point. Your family would not come after you, but others might. In our civil war in the 19th century, family members ended up in armies on opposite sides. At home I don't think they walked up to each other and killed them, but did on the battlefield because war is anonymous
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Post by annaintx on Jul 27, 2019 2:15:37 GMT
Those are very good points. I am very familiar with the Milgram experiment. And I can see how that comes into play here. But it’s the actual putting a gun (or whatever type of weapon) in the hand of one person and getting them to the point of killing a family member that I am having trouble with. I just can’t picture it. I can envision a couple of different scenarios, neither of which would (necessarily) involve family members killing other family members. We are not talking about people getting mad at the other side of a political divide, picking up weapons, and aiming them at the closest people who believe differently. Stressors would be much more intense. (1) Trump loses the election. He calls it fake news, the election was rigged, the “illegals” voted by the millions, whatever. He refuses to concede and refuses to leave the White House. Can he be removed by force? I don’t know. If not, we have a Constitutional crisis of epic proportions. If his supporters stand by him, tensions could boil over into violence very easily. Picture a Women’s March size protest in every city in this country, coming under violent attack by Trump supporters. Local law enforcement steps in, but they need help. They ask for help from the feds. The person in charge of the feds refuses to engage, because he’s happy to see his supporters beating in the heads of people who hate him. Hell, he’s been egging them on for years. Result = civil war. If he is forcibly removed, his remaining supporters will go batshit crazy, and either way, they’re the ones with most of the guns and ammo. Again, he will encourage them to fight this outrage in the streets. Result = civil war. (2) Trump wins the election. This is the scarier possibility. He feels invincible, and he starts pulling unconstitutional strong-man stunts that he’s threatened before, but always been talked down since it’s, duhh, unconstitutional. But now he thinks no one can take him down. He starts ignoring court orders, maybe he arrests a few journalists or James Comey or Ilhan Omar. Maybe he tells the military to open fire at the border. He closes the border to Muslims (except his rich friends, of course). He ships hundreds of immigrant children over to Gitmo where we can’t see what’s happening to them (he’s already threatened to do this). He arrests the mayor of San Francisco for refusing to cooperate with ICE raids. Christian Dominionists get put in charge of women’s health issues, public education, non-supportive houses of worship get shut down and their priests/pastors/rabbis/imams start to disappear ... oh, let’s not even go there. Maybe protestors start being arrested by the thousands. More detention camps will be needed. A couple more years down the road, and he’ll be working on an amendment to allow him to stay in office for as long as he likes. Objections? The power grid goes down for a few days, a few weeks ... life as we know it is over. Don’t think it can’t happen here. He already owns Congress and he’s going to own the federal judiciary soon. So California and maybe Oregon and Washington, maybe Nevada and Hawaii, say nuhh-uh, we’re not playing this game with you. We will secede and take our formerly happy economies with us. You think Trump is going to take that lying down? He may have trouble with New York, New Jersey, and New England, too. Oh wait, more happy economies want out. He will not let us go peacefully. Result = civil war. And he has the nukes. Seriously. Don’t think it can’t happen here. It could happen faster than you can imagine. ETA holy crap! This was my 15,000th post!! I talk too much! Holy shit I did not need to read this. OMG.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 27, 2019 2:47:00 GMT
Holy shit I did not need to read this. OMG. Nor did I.. Some how I missed it last night, actually this morning!! lucyg
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Post by lucyg on Jul 27, 2019 4:46:18 GMT
Holy shit I did not need to read this. OMG. Nor did I.. Some how I missed it last night, actually this morning!! lucyg I know, right? That’s how I felt typing it all out last night. I just think we’re walking a fine line right now, and things could fall apart fast and furious at some point. annaintx
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jul 27, 2019 11:26:05 GMT
Will we still be able to leave, or will the borders be closed to many of us? This is what I worry about when I can't sleep at night. Will I be able to see when I need to take immediate action, abandon life here and get my dgd out in time? I worry that despite my study of history and trying to stay alert, that I might miss the window of opportunity. Where will you go? As Americans, we assume everyone will want us. But when we become the fleeing refugees, won’t it be fair for other countries to say “no open borders, they’re taking our jobs, they aren’t sending their best, they need to stay home and fix their shithole country” - you reap what you sow and Mexico and Canada just may not be all that welcoming. There are other countries, but those would be the easiest to get to.
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