casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Sept 19, 2019 16:53:18 GMT
Btw buy backs have done nothing to stop gang shootings. I'm not sure that is a strong support to do nothing regarding common sense gun reform and I hope that's not a point you're trying to make.
Making seat belts and car insurance mandatory has done nothing to stop car accidents/deaths, but we don't question it. It's reduced deaths. If we've been hit by an uninsured motorist, we surely get upset by it and rightfully so since we're stuck with the bill.
Setting limits on blood alcohol hasn't stopped drunk driving accidents/deaths, but it's reduced them a great deal.
We can't do nothing because we're not guaranteed absolute success.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 19, 2019 17:38:03 GMT
I would definitely support it. My country has been there done that with it. And I think it was very successful.
HOWEVER, we did not have the NRA or the second amendment as factors to contend with, either. Both of which are extremely powerful (and negating) forces here.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 19, 2019 17:41:36 GMT
What are you classifying as a military-style weapon? Where does the money for the buyback come from? How would you enforce "mandatory?" I think the poll here will be skewed as it is very much a left-leaning board. some “military” style rifles are no different than some high powered hunting rifles. And where does that money come from? Btw buy backs have done nothing to stop gang shootings. What’s your cited example for gang shootings?
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Sept 19, 2019 17:55:54 GMT
1. define 'military style' - i think most mean the AR 15 - unless people have light anti tank weapons 50 cals and m60s in their arsenals - lets not forget how similar some hunting rifles are to the AR 15 - where is the line drawn
2. we don't have room for the criminals now - you want to throw more into the mix - non violent/victimless crime at that - just a refusal to disarm
3. please stop calling the AR 15 an assault weapon - it's easy to google it - and it's been explained numerous times here
gina
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Post by flanz on Sept 19, 2019 18:07:27 GMT
Its the buy back part I am cannot get past. I support not selling these anymore or ammo for them. But not a buy back program. That would be too extreme. Besides, just how does any one know who all has these kind of weapons? We would be better off with laws of accountability. If your weapon was used in a shooting you should be just as accountable as the shooter. If you sold the weapon used in a shooting, you should bear some of the burden of guilt. Perhaps that would make sellers and owners a bit more responsible in who they sell to and who they allow access to their weapons. I agree 100% with your statement, bolded by me.
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Post by flanz on Sept 19, 2019 18:07:51 GMT
What the hell! Of course military style weapons should be band. Then a mandatory buyback program. Then if your caught with one you face a fine or jail time. This is the only thing that makes sense. We have to stop this madness. Just because we won't get all of them doesn't mean we don't make laws to get most of them. Who in their right mind thinks a civilian should have a military style weapon. This!!!!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:21:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 18:33:12 GMT
What are you classifying as a military-style weapon? Where does the money for the buyback come from? How would you enforce "mandatory?" I think the poll here will be skewed as it is very much a left-leaning board. they always are.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Sept 19, 2019 19:16:48 GMT
Colt has announced they are ending production of AR-15 rifles due to lack of demand.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Sept 19, 2019 19:26:53 GMT
What’s in our gun safe is our business and no one else’s. I do not support the invasion of privacy. If you don’t want us to buy the guns, go after the manufacturers. Everything we own was purchased legally and stored/used responsibily. I won’t surrender anything for I haven’t done anything wrong.
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Post by Merge on Sept 19, 2019 19:29:07 GMT
Colt has announced they are ending production of AR-15 rifles due to lack of demand. Hm. Skeptical. More likely this is a ploy to increase sales, which have decreased under Trump because the NRA can’t do the “Obama is coming for your guns” fear mongering any more. Production will start right back up again as soon as current stocks are depleted.
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Post by Merge on Sept 19, 2019 19:29:39 GMT
What’s in our gun safe is our business and no one else’s. I do not support the invasion of privacy. If you don’t want us to buy the guns, go after the manufacturers. Everything we own was purchased legally and stored/used responsibily. I won’t surrender anything for I haven’t done anything wrong. Cool, thanks for letting us know you do not intend to be a law-abiding gun owner unless you agree with the laws.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Sept 19, 2019 19:33:58 GMT
What’s in our gun safe is our business and no one else’s. I do not support the invasion of privacy. If you don’t want us to buy the guns, go after the manufacturers. Everything we own was purchased legally and stored/used responsibily. I won’t surrender anything for I haven’t done anything wrong. Cool, thanks for letting us know you do not intend to be a law-abiding gun owner unless you agree with the laws. Currently it’s not a law. And I don’t see it actually happening. The poll here will not represent what the government will actually do. I think the nra will make sure of that for at least my lifetime. So yeah. Cool.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Sept 19, 2019 19:34:45 GMT
What’s in our gun safe is our business and no one else’s. I do not support the invasion of privacy. If you don’t want us to buy the guns, go after the manufacturers. Everything we own was purchased legally and stored/used responsibily. I won’t surrender anything for I haven’t done anything wrong. If there is a law you will be breaking the law. That means you will be a criminal. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Sept 19, 2019 19:36:07 GMT
Cool, thanks for letting us know you do not intend to be a law-abiding gun owner unless you agree with the laws. Currently it’s not a law. And I don’t see it actually happening. The poll here will not represent what the government will actually do. I think the nra will make sure of that for at least my lifetime. So yeah. Cool. Hopefully the tide is changing.
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Post by Merge on Sept 19, 2019 19:37:09 GMT
Cool, thanks for letting us know you do not intend to be a law-abiding gun owner unless you agree with the laws. Currently it’s not a law. And I don’t see it actually happening. The poll here will not represent what the government will actually do. I think the nra will make sure of that for at least my lifetime. So yeah. Cool. Doesn't matter. The whole thread is hypothetical and you're saying that in the event that a ban and buybacks became law, you would refuse to comply. But you're a "law-abiding gun owner." I'm sure you see the disconnect. Based on all the available evidence, the NRA is circling the drain. As they die out, so will their campaign contributions to people who support their terrorist agenda. And we will see the laws change.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Sept 19, 2019 19:37:25 GMT
What’s in our gun safe is our business and no one else’s. I do not support the invasion of privacy. If you don’t want us to buy the guns, go after the manufacturers. Everything we own was purchased legally and stored/used responsibily. I won’t surrender anything for I haven’t done anything wrong. If there is a law you will be breaking the law. That means you will be a criminal. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow. But first you have to have cause to enter my property. That’s the real issue you’re opening up. You’re supporting the gun without realizing you’re supporting the government entering your property at any time because they suspect illegal gun ownership. Once they start there, where will it end. I said I do not support invasion of privacy.
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Post by Merge on Sept 19, 2019 19:44:18 GMT
If there is a law you will be breaking the law. That means you will be a criminal. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow. But first you have to have cause to enter my property. That’s the real issue you’re opening up. You’re supporting the gun without realizing you’re supporting the government entering your property at any time because they suspect illegal gun ownership. Once they start there, where will it end. I said I do not support invasion of privacy. If a ban and mandatory buybacks were enacted, a law-abiding person would surrender the gun without being asked, thus removing the need for anyone to enter your property.
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Post by kmcginn on Sept 19, 2019 20:07:40 GMT
For me it's an automatic.
I know some rifles look that way but are really single shot rifles, and I'm OK with that because they are used for hunting.
The ones I'm against are the ones that can shoot multiple rounds in seconds, thus killing many people before anyone can stop it.
As I'm sure you can tell by this post, I am not a gun owner and not very knowledgeable about guns or even the lingo, so I apologize if I have misspoken.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Sept 19, 2019 20:17:02 GMT
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 19, 2019 21:11:42 GMT
What’s in our gun safe is our business and no one else’s. I do not support the invasion of privacy. If you don’t want us to buy the guns, go after the manufacturers. Everything we own was purchased legally and stored/used responsibily. I won’t surrender anything for I haven’t done anything wrong. Gun owners thinking like this are the problem. Think they and their guns are a law unto themselves.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,277
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Sept 19, 2019 21:12:37 GMT
By putting ban and mandatory buy back in the same question you poll is skewed to favor your position. While I might favor a ban I don't support a mandatory back. I stand by what I said on the other thread, you can't force someone to give up something they were legally entitled to own. If you try to add on forced jail time you're going to have a revolt. Worked with ferrets. They were legal to own at one time, now aren't. Get caught with one, pay a fine. There are plenty of things that were once completely legal to own but calmer, saner minds prevailed and are now illegal. I would love some sort of buy back program, but where would the money come from? The government? And how would the government get the money? What other programs would have to suffer? Taxes? Not a chance in hell of that happening. Fines from those that don't give them up? Too small of a pot. That being said, there have been many city-based buyback programs that have been incredibly successful. Oakland and San Francisco to name the two closest to me. Last time I checked owning a ferret was not a right granted under the constitution.
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Post by refugeepea on Sept 19, 2019 21:41:45 GMT
If there is a law you will be breaking the law. That means you will be a criminal. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow. Except it's been done on a state level with marijuana. If I buy it in Nevada or Colorado and bring it over state lines I am a criminal. Red states will likely pass their own legislation. That's why I'm skeptical a federal ban will do much. BTW, I am for gun control laws but not hopeful it will work.
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Post by sabrinae on Sept 19, 2019 21:45:56 GMT
Worked with ferrets. They were legal to own at one time, now aren't. Get caught with one, pay a fine. There are plenty of things that were once completely legal to own but calmer, saner minds prevailed and are now illegal. I would love some sort of buy back program, but where would the money come from? The government? And how would the government get the money? What other programs would have to suffer? Taxes? Not a chance in hell of that happening. Fines from those that don't give them up? Too small of a pot. That being said, there have been many city-based buyback programs that have been incredibly successful. Oakland and San Francisco to name the two closest to me. Last time I checked owning a ferret was not a right granted under the constitution. The individual right to bear arms is a very new reading of the 2nd amendment. It’s only been since Heller in 2008. Prior to that the right to bear arms was a collective right. I wouldn’t remain so confident that the Heller reasoning will remain the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Sept 19, 2019 22:00:45 GMT
I have thought for decades that the anti gun people have been attacking this problem the wrong way from the get go. The immediate reaction is to just ban the weapons. Ban them all, ban some, ban ones that look a particular way, ban the ammunition, force people into giving up something that is a right granted by the constitution (argue it all you want , its a constitutional right, just like freedom of religion) . That of course gets the other sides back up and now the line in the sand is drawn.
Im a gun owner. I support the 2nd amendment. I do not feel the government should be allowed to force me into giving up what protected by the constitution. I do not support a mandatory program requiring citizens to turn them in. I don't think I would support it even if the buy back was at market value (which it won't be) . Raised the way I was, the minute you modify the constitution on this issue, there is a concern that other constitutional rights can now be changed depending on the whim of the current culture. What other freedoms am I going to give up because it doesn't align with someone else? This thinking gets laughed off a lot, but it should be a serious consideration.
There is a way to do this and get what you want in the same breath. It just takes longer and doesn't ban all the evil guns immediately. You aren't going to win the "ban guns" fight. Start looking at it from a different angle. It's a constitutional right, therefore it should be regulated federally, not state. Every citizen in every state should have access to the right to own the weapons. Stay with me here....Make the laws voteable by the citizenship. If you want a ban, put it on the ballot nationwide at election day. You say you have the numbers to indicate that people want this change, prove it. Anyone who wants to own a gun has to have a license. This license will come with fees and classes. Mandatory renewal every 5 years. Every gun purchase be it retail or private has to be attached to a license. If you move, you have to update it with in 60 days like a drivers license. The perk is that you can carry concealed with the license in all the states. Federal regulations for traveling by plane will still be followed. If it is stolen from your home then you have to file a report with your local LE office immediately upon finding it stolen. I don't believe that you can be held liable if someone comes into your home and steals it. However, if you leave it in your car, on the driveway, in places that are not considered controlled and safe by reasonable people, then yes there should be some kind of fine for it. Prison won't work like another pea pointed out...too crowded already. Hit them in the pocket book, make them turn over all additional weapons and ban them from having them again (I do not believe that will work but people like that kind of thing. can't tell you how many criminals my husband arrested with weapons that were prohibited by the courts from having them) Let the gun owners have their guns, just make it difficult and annoying to get. There isn't anything in the constitution that says they don't have to jump through hoops.
I can't address mental health. I don't have the time at the moment. The mental health side of this is very sticky and tricky and will take a few more smarter people than I; however I feel if you are going to solve a problem you have to start somewhere. There is the groundwork. Build from there.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:21:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 22:56:04 GMT
Government: Stay out of the bedroom, stay out of the gun safe.
Since a gun can now be printed, all this is really a moot point.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 19, 2019 23:31:51 GMT
I don't mind a ban on automatic weapons. I don't mind having my license scanned to buy ammo like I have to to buy sudafed.
I'm iffy on a buyback because while you say the federal government will pay, I want to know where that money is coming from. What isn't getting funded due to that money? How much is the government going to pay for the guns? I'd want at minimum purchase price adjusted for inflation plus something extra.
I don't mind having universal background checks.
I don't mind having current automatic weapons needing to be registered, licensed and insured. If they are changing hands other than buy inheritance through immediate bloodline. Make the transfer of ownership with them cost a decent amount. You know, like they used to do.
I don't mind banning conversion kits to modify semis into autos. I support having manufacturers taking extra steps to make them harder to modify.
I do not support mandatory buyback. I do not support forcing owners to give up their guns.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,798
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Sept 19, 2019 23:59:49 GMT
What’s in our gun safe is our business and no one else’s. I do not support the invasion of privacy. If you don’t want us to buy the guns, go after the manufacturers. Everything we own was purchased legally and stored/used responsibily. I won’t surrender anything for I haven’t done anything wrong. Amen! I PERSONALLY do not own any firearms as they don’t interest me. My husband is a collector. They are all locked up properly.
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Post by sabrinae on Sept 20, 2019 0:00:26 GMT
I actually don’t support outright bans or buy backs. I don’t think it’s effective way to go about doing it. But, I also don’t believe in the absolute right based on the 2nd amendment. If your worried about slippery slopes and rights being taken away based on other constitutional rights being taken away you should take a hard look at the right and the current treatment of the right to privacy— it’s being dismantled. I do support federal regulation, true universal background checks and licensing requirements. I also support a requirement to provide Id when purchasing ammunition and limiting large capacity magazines. I’m open to discussion on what’s considered large capacity. I am also really tired of the argument that there’s no point in having laws regarding guns because the criminals won’t follow them. By that logic we shouldn’t have any laws and it should be a free for all, survival of the fittest.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,798
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Sept 20, 2019 0:04:06 GMT
I have thought for decades that the anti gun people have been attacking this problem the wrong way from the get go. The immediate reaction is to just ban the weapons. Ban them all, ban some, ban ones that look a particular way, ban the ammunition, force people into giving up something that is a right granted by the constitution (argue it all you want , its a constitutional right, just like freedom of religion) . That of course gets the other sides back up and now the line in the sand is drawn. Im a gun owner. I support the 2nd amendment. I do not feel the government should be allowed to force me into giving up what protected by the constitution. I do not support a mandatory program requiring citizens to turn them in. I don't think I would support it even if the buy back was at market value (which it won't be) . Raised the way I was, the minute you modify the constitution on this issue, there is a concern that other constitutional rights can now be changed depending on the whim of the current culture. What other freedoms am I going to give up because it doesn't align with someone else? This thinking gets laughed off a lot, but it should be a serious consideration. There is a way to do this and get what you want in the same breath. It just takes longer and doesn't ban all the evil guns immediately. You aren't going to win the "ban guns" fight. Start looking at it from a different angle. It's a constitutional right, therefore it should be regulated federally, not state. Every citizen in every state should have access to the right to own the weapons. Stay with me here....Make the laws voteable by the citizenship. If you want a ban, put it on the ballot nationwide at election day. You say you have the numbers to indicate that people want this change, prove it. Anyone who wants to own a gun has to have a license. This license will come with fees and classes. Mandatory renewal every 5 years. Every gun purchase be it retail or private has to be attached to a license. If you move, you have to update it with in 60 days like a drivers license. The perk is that you can carry concealed with the license in all the states. Federal regulations for traveling by plane will still be followed. If it is stolen from your home then you have to file a report with your local LE office immediately upon finding it stolen. I don't believe that you can be held liable if someone comes into your home and steals it. However, if you leave it in your car, on the driveway, in places that are not considered controlled and safe by reasonable people, then yes there should be some kind of fine for it. Prison won't work like another pea pointed out...too crowded already. Hit them in the pocket book, make them turn over all additional weapons and ban them from having them again (I do not believe that will work but people like that kind of thing. can't tell you how many criminals my husband arrested with weapons that were prohibited by the courts from having them) Let the gun owners have their guns, just make it difficult and annoying to get. There isn't anything in the constitution that says they don't have to jump through hoops. I can't address mental health. I don't have the time at the moment. The mental health side of this is very sticky and tricky and will take a few more smarter people than I; however I feel if you are going to solve a problem you have to start somewhere. There is the groundwork. Build from there. Absolutely! I can totally get behind requiring a license that must be renewed. That is akin to a concealed carry permit, make it country wide. Hell, even a required psych check if that will make people feel better. (ETA: “psych”)
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:21:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 5:16:56 GMT
Jason Kander..
”THREAD: I'm tired of hearing this fraudulent argument against an assault weapons ban. If someone makes this argument to you, consider the following response:
”1. The AR-15 was originally designed for the military as a smaller replacement for FOUR different rifles. 2. It was a tactical answer to the AK-47, which was (and still is) the preferred rifle of our enemies. No one argues an AK is anything other than an assault weapon.”
”3. Everything about assembling and maintaining the AR-15 is the same as the M-16. I was trained on the M-16 and the M-4, yet I can (as is well documented) break down and reassemble an AR-15 blindfolded BECAUSE THE PARTS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.”
“4. The only noticeable difference between the M-16/M-4 and the AR-15 is the select fire feature, meaning you can flip from semi-auto to three-round burst and/or full-auto . . . but that doesn't cease to make the weapon an ASSAULT weapon.”
“5. Can't speak for others, but I was trained to almost never employ burst or full-auto, because they were an inefficient waste of ammunition.”
”Burst/auto is undeniably useful when laying down suppressive fire, which, in layman's terms, is when you try to force the enemy to keep their head down and not return fire momentarily while your ASSAULT element moves on them from the flank, likely on semi-auto themselves.”
”Other times when we were taught to potentially use burst or auto would be when clearing a bunker, performing certain room clearing techniques, etc.
6. 95% of the time, in my experience, Army marksmanship instructors would consider firing on burst/auto to be poor ammo discipline.”
”7. Point being, the only truly noticeable distinction between the AR-15 and its "military" counterpart, the M-16 or M-4, has nothing to do with whether it's an assault rifle.
8. Therefore, IT'S A WEAPON OF WAR.
9. Goodnight.”
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