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Post by elaine on Nov 9, 2020 21:42:08 GMT
This is my 5th election at NSBR. After each election, there is *always* at least one thread calling for a discussion of what the losing party did wrong and what they could do to gain votes for the next election.
There is usually some pushback by the losing party board members who are still licking their wounds. And some gloating by winning party board members. But there have always been these threads.
It has been fascinating to see the absence of that/those threads. Because the answer as to why the Republican ticket lost is so obvious: Trump. It isn’t about disenfranchised pockets of voters due to some aspect of the party platform. It isn’t be Republicans didn’t come out to vote. It is because Trump. And everyone knows it.
Instead, interestingly enough, we are left with more discussion (and well we should talk about this) about what the Democrats did wrong that led to so many people to vote Republican despite Trump.
So, even though the Democratic ticket won, it is CLEAR that the Democratic Party has much work to do. And there is no point in having those traditional discussions about the Republican Party as long as they have decided publicly that their platform is whatever Trump says it is.
Anyhow, we live in unprecedented times. And that is even reflected at NSBR where even our post-election threads are different than they have been before.
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Post by papersilly on Nov 9, 2020 21:48:27 GMT
i am no means an analyst. i'm a casual observer at best. i don't know about what the Dems did wrong but, i think trump shot himself in the foot when he discouraged mail in/drop off ballots. biden had those banked and banked big. those ballots saved him. trump encouraged in person, same day voting and simply not enough people could/would do it. i don't know how much the fear of the pandemic played into his supporters not going out on election day but 5 million of them just didn't have enough incentive to do so.
ETA: i think people came out in droves for trump because they were RABID about their support for him. i think people who voted for biden were not as rabid but they knew they didn't want the alternative. first and foremost, trump voters chose the person over the policies. biden voters held out for better policies and biden happened to be the one bringing them.
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Post by Really Red on Nov 9, 2020 21:57:59 GMT
This is my 5th election at NSBR. After each election, there is *always* at least one thread calling for a discussion of what the losing party did wrong and what they could do to gain votes for the next election. There is usually some pushback by the losing party board members who are still licking their wounds. And some gloating by winning party board members. But there have always been these threads. It has been fascinating to see the absence of that/those threads. Because the answer as to why the Republican ticket lost is so obvious: Trump. It isn’t about disenfranchised pockets of voters due to some aspect of the party platform. It isn’t be Republicans didn’t come out to vote. It is because Trump. And everyone knows it. Instead, interestingly enough, we are left with more discussion (and well we should talk about this) about what the Democrats did wrong that led to so many people to vote Republican despite Trump. So, even though the Democratic ticket won, it is CLEAR that the Democratic Party has much work to do. And there is no point in having those traditional discussions about the Republican Party as long as they have decided publicly that their platform is whatever Trump says it is. Anyhow, we live in unprecedented times. And that is even reflected at NSBR where even our post-election threads are different than they have been before. I have a very centrist FB friend - friend since college when we were both Poli Sci majors - and he says the same thing. Here is what I think and I am not trying to be difficult (really!) I do think there are definitely some things the Democrats have to take into consideration - financially-wise. For the most part, however, the rhetoric from the Rs and from Trump is overwhelming. I liken it to this: If you grew up and every single day, every single person (every one of them) told you that you were smart and beautiful. Every now and then you'd venture out into the outside world and someone would either 1) not say it or 2) say you were just regular-looking and not-so-bright. You'd go back home and everyone there would tell you how idiotic those people were and it was "fake news" and you were, actually and truly, just so smart and so beautiful. Tell me what you'd think? So now you have Trump telling the faithful (at minimum) 20,000 lies. Twenty-thousand!! Trump is your family. Who do you believe? And why oh why is it the Democrats who have to figure out why the Republicans are so gullible? Why don't the Republicans figure out how to make the Democrats so gullible? (Don't tell me, I already know.) |
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Post by myboysnme on Nov 9, 2020 21:58:57 GMT
I'm a lifelong democrat and am dismayed that half of the votes came in for Trump. That's practically a civil war split, because no resolution could come between the two. I can never accept Trump and the actions of his party. I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves. This includes family and friends of mine, who I know to be exactly that.
Joe Biden may be president of all America, but he can never give voice to the republican voters who express and continue to spew their hate a they have the past 4 years. I really have come to believe we were on the verge of another Nazi Regime and he was Hitler. How can that ever be reconciled?
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Pearl Clutcher
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Post by DEX on Nov 9, 2020 22:10:08 GMT
I think the Democrats made a mistake when they didn’t soundly renounce socialism. I never knew that JB was a moderate who had been able to work with both parties across the aisle until I read an article explaining that after the election. I agree with the rest of the campaign but I also wonder if all the talk about Biden’s age and a woman VP made some red neck people nervous. I know a man who said that due to Biden’s age he couldn’t vote for him..because then Kamala.  I also also think our impeached president told so many lies which Fox News reported on without evidence that it was hard to dig out of that. Maybe the Republicans love a good conspiracy theory. I don’t know. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 9, 2020 22:11:56 GMT
This is my 5th election at NSBR. After each election, there is *always* at least one thread calling for a discussion of what the losing party did wrong and what they could do to gain votes for the next election. There is usually some pushback by the losing party board members who are still licking their wounds. And some gloating by winning party board members. But there have always been these threads. It has been fascinating to see the absence of that/those threads. Because the answer as to why the Republican ticket lost is so obvious: Trump. It isn’t about disenfranchised pockets of voters due to some aspect of the party platform. It isn’t be Republicans didn’t come out to vote. It is because Trump. And everyone knows it. Instead, interestingly enough, we are left with more discussion (and well we should talk about this) about what the Democrats did wrong that led to so many people to vote Republican despite Trump. So, even though the Democratic ticket won, it is CLEAR that the Democratic Party has much work to do. And there is no point in having those traditional discussions about the Republican Party as long as they have decided publicly that their platform is whatever Trump says it is. Anyhow, we live in unprecedented times. And that is even reflected at NSBR where even our post-election threads are different than they have been before. I have a very centrist FB friend - friend since college when we were both Poli Sci majors - and he says the same thing. Here is what I think and I am not trying to be difficult (really!) I do think there are definitely some things the Democrats have to take into consideration - financially-wise. For the most part, however, the rhetoric from the Rs and from Trump is overwhelming. I liken it to this: If you grew up and every single day, every single person (every one of them) told you that you were smart and beautiful. Every now and then you'd venture out into the outside world and someone would either 1) not say it or 2) say you were just regular-looking and not-so-bright. You'd go back home and everyone there would tell you how idiotic those people were and it was "fake news" and you were, actually and truly, just so smart and so beautiful. Tell me what you'd think? So now you have Trump telling the faithful (at minimum) 20,000 lies. Twenty-thousand!! Trump is your family. Who do you believe? And why oh why is it the Democrats who have to figure out why the Republicans are so gullible? Why don't the Republicans figure out how to make the Democrats so gullible? (Don't tell me, I already know.) I don’t think that you are being difficult. I don’t think that it is up to us to figure out Republicans, but what we could do to better address issues that are important within our own party. How can we better get out our own vote? How can we better address the concerns of various groups with lower social power under our own umbrella? (Such as various POC groups, women, LGBTQ, lower SES, etc) I admit that I may be naive, but I’d like to believe that if we are able to better address traditionally disenfranchised groups’ needs/interests that we would win some of those people who vote Republican. Not everyone who voted for Trump was a white Christian male and it doesn’t help the Democrats to write them all off as such. |
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Post by papersilly on Nov 9, 2020 22:21:30 GMT
another thing that trump did hard and fast was to fear monger his supporters into voting for him. they will take away your guns. they will make you wear masks. they will close everything down. there will be no christmas, no 4th of july, no nothing. they will let the rapists come in. the drugs will come in. they will go into the suburbs and kill you. fear fear fear. clearly fear works on the simpletons with the inability to dissect, challenge or think logically or rationally about what he is saying. basic fear was his strategy and it worked.
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Post by keriwest on Nov 9, 2020 22:21:40 GMT
"I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves."
This is what you did wrong.
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Post by elaine on Nov 9, 2020 22:24:27 GMT
"I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves." This is what you did wrong. Thanks. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 9, 2020 22:24:32 GMT
I think the Democrats made a mistake when they didn’t soundly renounce socialism. I never knew that JB was a moderate who had been able to work with both parties across the aisle until I read an article explaining that after the election. I agree with the rest of the campaign but I also wonder if all the talk about Biden’s age and a woman VP made some red neck people nervous. I know a man who said that due to Biden’s age he couldn’t vote for him..because then Kamala. I also also think our impeached president told so many lies which Fox News reported on without evidence that it was hard to dig out of that. Maybe the Republicans love a good conspiracy theory. I don’t know. Renounce socialism how? Actual socialism as an economic system? Sure. The GOP definition of socialism, which can vary from day to day and seems mostly to include using tax dollars to help people you don’t like? That one’s trickier. How do you renounce something that is a moving target not actually based on reality? I really wish people would stop blaming party messaging when it’s really people being uninformed. Didn’t know Biden was a moderate? I’m honestly flabbergasted. I think you’d have to confine yourself entirely to right-wing media to not know that. And I’m not jumping on you per se - I’ve got members of my own party who can’t accurately define socialism, and believed that Liz Warren was peddling it, whatever “it” was. People in the US are largely uninformed, incurious, and self-interested. The GOP has capitalized on that fact by saying that people who are smart and well informed are “elites” and that any ideas about helping people are “socialist.” They promote ignorance by electing the most ignorant man in the world to lead them and making him out to know better than experts in their fields. But sure, the problem is Democratic messaging. Totally. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 9, 2020 22:25:19 GMT
"I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves." This is what you did wrong. excuse me please, but who are you quoting? I don't see that in the original post. The quote feature makes it much easier to follow comments like this and give them proper credence. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 9, 2020 22:27:05 GMT
"I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves." This is what you did wrong. Actually, babe, that’s what you did wrong. Twice, apparently. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 9, 2020 22:29:07 GMT
"I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves." This is what you did wrong. excuse me please, but who are you quoting? I don't see that in the original post. The quote feature makes it much easier to follow comments like this and give them proper credence. I wouldn’t be surprised if I said this somewhere. Because I feel that way much of the time. Even though I in no way represent the Democratic Party, its leadership, its platform and its messaging. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 9, 2020 22:31:01 GMT
I think the Democrats made a mistake when they didn’t soundly renounce socialism. I never knew that JB was a moderate who had been able to work with both parties across the aisle until I read an article explaining that after the election. I agree with the rest of the campaign but I also wonder if all the talk about Biden’s age and a woman VP made some red neck people nervous. I know a man who said that due to Biden’s age he couldn’t vote for him..because then Kamala.  I also also think our impeached president told so many lies which Fox News reported on without evidence that it was hard to dig out of that. Maybe the Republicans love a good conspiracy theory. I don’t know. Renounce socialism how? Actual socialism as an economic system? Sure. The GOP definition of socialism, which can vary from day to day and seems mostly to include using tax dollars to help people you don’t like? That one’s trickier. How do you renounce something that is a moving target not actually based on reality? I really wish people would stop blaming party messaging when it’s really people being uninformed. Didn’t know Biden was a moderate? I’m honestly flabbergasted. I think you’d have to confine yourself entirely to right-wing media to not know that. And I’m not jumping on you per se - I’ve got members of my own party who can’t accurately define socialism, and believed that Liz Warren was peddling it, whatever “it” was. People in the US are largely uninformed, incurious, and self-interested. The GOP has capitalized on that fact by saying that people who are smart and well informed are “elites” and that any ideas about helping people are “socialist.” They promote ignorance by electing the most ignorant man in the world to lead them and making him out to know better than experts in their fields. But sure, the problem is Democratic messaging. Totally. Merge, I’m not saying that we are the problem. I am, apparently poorly, wondering what we can do as a party to better address the concerns of various disenfranchised groups under our own umbrella. ☹️ |
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Post by Merge on Nov 9, 2020 22:31:26 GMT
excuse me please, but who are you quoting? I don't see that in the original post. The quote feature makes it much easier to follow comments like this and give them proper credence. I wouldn’t be surprised if I said this somewhere. Because I feel that way much of the time. Even though I in no way represent the Democratic Party, its leadership, its platform and its messaging. It’s the same old “you made me vote for Trump because you were mean” trope. So much for the party of personal responsibility. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 9, 2020 22:32:33 GMT
excuse me please, but who are you quoting? I don't see that in the original post. The quote feature makes it much easier to follow comments like this and give them proper credence. I wouldn’t be surprised if I said this somewhere. Because I feel that way much of the time. Even though I in no way represent the Democratic Party, its leadership, its platform and its messaging. ahhh- a spreadsheet keeper, eh? thanks. I feel like that a lot of the time, too. If someone HAD said it somewhere, the least that can be done is to reference the ACTUAL QUOTE for the context. (but alas, that's too much to ask, apparently.) |
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
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Post by moodyblue on Nov 9, 2020 22:33:17 GMT
I think there are lots of things that affected this election. I, along with many others, hoped that there would be a blue wave. While we got Biden/Harris, the down ballot races are a concern, a "red flag" in a way. Losing House seats and failing to flip more Senate seats isn’t a good thing. Doug Jones needed more help to hold his seat and I think the Dems gave up on that one way too soon.
There are people who voted single issue, and they think Trump was their guy for that issue, whichever one it was.
There are people who voted out of fear - fear that "their" way of life was at risk, and Trump speaks to those who are fearful.
There are people who vote their wallet, and those who are doing well may have voted for Trump; those who aren’t doing so well may have voted for Biden. But there are people who vote against their own interests, because they believe Trump is fighting for them.
Trump is also good at putting labels on people, and that worked for and against him, but the Dems could have done a better job of messaging.
Trump goofed by bad mouthing mail voting and that worked against him. His handling of Covid hurt him too, but not as much as I thought it might.
Biden followed guidelines for Covid safety, but that allowed Trump to have the stage alone way too often. I think he needed to be more visible, along with his surrogates, in creative ways.
The Democratic Party has its own divisions, and it’s really interesting that AOC and Ilhan Omar won easily, but yet we couldn’t get closer or flip seats, and even lost some. What does the platform need to be to get broad support?
I feel like the Dems made a big push at the end, and that was successful for President/Vice President, but maybe they waited too long to bring out their troops?
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Post by sean&marysmommy on Nov 9, 2020 22:34:50 GMT
keriwest is quoting from this thread. I think it was myboysnme who said it.
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Post by Merge on Nov 9, 2020 22:37:03 GMT
Renounce socialism how? Actual socialism as an economic system? Sure. The GOP definition of socialism, which can vary from day to day and seems mostly to include using tax dollars to help people you don’t like? That one’s trickier. How do you renounce something that is a moving target not actually based on reality? I really wish people would stop blaming party messaging when it’s really people being uninformed. Didn’t know Biden was a moderate? I’m honestly flabbergasted. I think you’d have to confine yourself entirely to right-wing media to not know that. And I’m not jumping on you per se - I’ve got members of my own party who can’t accurately define socialism, and believed that Liz Warren was peddling it, whatever “it” was. People in the US are largely uninformed, incurious, and self-interested. The GOP has capitalized on that fact by saying that people who are smart and well informed are “elites” and that any ideas about helping people are “socialist.” They promote ignorance by electing the most ignorant man in the world to lead them and making him out to know better than experts in their fields. But sure, the problem is Democratic messaging. Totally. Merge, I’m not saying that we are the problem. I am, apparently poorly, wondering what we can do as a party to better address the concerns of various disenfranchised groups under our own umbrella. ☹️ I’m sorry, I was responding to Dex. I think your question is valid. But I also think a lot of people under our umbrella are susceptible to right-wing messaging whether they realize it or not. Remember the primary season and all the hand-wringing about some candidates being too far left? Or socialist? Much of that was based on right-based disinformation about what socialism is. Our “leftists” wouldn’t remotely qualify as socialists in any country. I’m still bitter that we ended up with the most right-leaning of the candidates as our nominee. We had much better players on the field but it seems Dems are as susceptible to the lie of “fiscal conservatism” as anyone else. Personally, I think the party needs to worry about its younger voters losing interest as we continue to elect corporatists who aren’t going to enact meaningful change. And it’s going to take people actually understanding the terms they throw around for that to happen. |
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Post by keriwest on Nov 9, 2020 22:37:27 GMT
I'm a lifelong democrat and am dismayed that half of the votes came in for Trump. That's practically a civil war split, because no resolution could come between the two. I can never accept Trump and the actions of his party. I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves. This includes family and friends of mine, who I know to be exactly that. Joe Biden may be president of all America, but he can never give voice to the republican voters who express and continue to spew their hate a they have the past 4 years. I really have come to believe we were on the verge of another Nazi Regime and he was Hitler. How can that ever be reconciled? Here is the quote...the bold is mine. |
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Post by mrgiedrnkr on Nov 9, 2020 22:42:37 GMT
I don’t think those conversations will happen here because the conservatives were ran out of the board. I am a Democrat and I voted for Biden. But, this board has completely become anti-Trump/Republican. I am married to a Trump voter and felt Like the scourge of the earth for not divorcing him for the past few years based on the conversations here,
Just commenting that there will be little back and forth as most of the board is now one-sided.
Stacy
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 9, 2020 22:43:07 GMT
another thing that trump did hard and fast was to fear monger his supporters into voting for him. they will take away your guns. they will make you wear masks. they will close everything down. there will be no christmas, no 4th of july, no nothing. they will let the rapists come in. the drugs will come in. they will go into the suburbs and kill you. fear fear fear. clearly fear works on the simpletons with the inability to dissect, challenge or think logically or rationally about what he is saying. basic fear was his strategy and it worked. This! The democrats should have addressed those fear monger rumors loudly and right away. He lost FL they said because of the communist rumors fed to the Latino population. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 9, 2020 22:45:23 GMT
"I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves." This is what you did wrong. I have to agree with this. I had a big discussion with a friend about this very subject. Just because someone voted for Trump does not make them a racist. Yes, there is the whole implied and associated with rhetoric, but it's just not true. |
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Post by papersilly on Nov 9, 2020 22:46:59 GMT
another thing that trump did hard and fast was to fear monger his supporters into voting for him. they will take away your guns. they will make you wear masks. they will close everything down. there will be no christmas, no 4th of july, no nothing. they will let the rapists come in. the drugs will come in. they will go into the suburbs and kill you. fear fear fear. clearly fear works on the simpletons with the inability to dissect, challenge or think logically or rationally about what he is saying. basic fear was his strategy and it worked. This! The democrats should have addressed those fear monger rumors loudly and right away. He lost FL they said because of the communist rumors fed to the Latino population. there is a part of me that wished Biden had played just as dirty but i'm glad he didn't. that's just not who he is. it doesn't seem natural coming out of him. Trump did what he does best----lie, cheat and fear monger. i'm not a pollyanna by any means but i'm glad decency won big over dirty tactics. and speaking of dirty tactics, it's disgusting that his solicitation for donations to fight the election results say IN FINE PRINT, that 50% of the donations will go towards paying down his campaign debts. i bet those donors don't know that |
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Post by Layce on Nov 9, 2020 22:47:08 GMT
I think that possibly there is no longer the diversity political or otherwise that we used to have on this forum and the divisiveness over Trump left many to seek their own kind elsewhere. <-- that sentence sucks but I'm serious. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or a good thing it just Is What It Is.
Many 2Ps posters have long left for other forums with folk that share their Trump-inspired values and rabidity (lol) and heck I have noticed recently apparent pro-Trumpers bailing on FB and moving on to other online forums where negativity can fester and maybe even erupt into the type of violence many of us feared in the event of a Biden victory.
It's making an impact and I did post a don't-leave to many of my FB friends who were looking to leave and taking recommendations. You know what I'm talking about, I've seen some discussion here about that, in any case they're leaving and sharing links and new names and deleting their FBs and getting on with it.
Can we all just get along? Not this time
Layce
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Post by elaine on Nov 9, 2020 22:48:44 GMT
I don’t think those conversations will happen here because the conservatives were ran out of the board. I am a Democrat and I voted for Biden. But, this board has completely become anti-Trump/Republican. I am married to a Trump voter and felt Like the scourge of the earth for not divorcing him for the past few years based on the conversations here, Just commenting that there will be little back and forth as most of the board is now one-sided. Stacy The back-and-forth was never helpful, enlightening, or productive. In fact, those threads were always somewhat ugly. So, not having a thread like those of old means bypassing that. If you read my OP, my observation was that they were split between gloating and wound licking and nothing positive came of them. But they were reliable in that they always happened. |
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by DEX on Nov 9, 2020 22:49:21 GMT
I think the Democrats made a mistake when they didn’t soundly renounce socialism. I never knew that JB was a moderate who had been able to work with both parties across the aisle until I read an article explaining that after the election. I agree with the rest of the campaign but I also wonder if all the talk about Biden’s age and a woman VP made some red neck people nervous. I know a man who said that due to Biden’s age he couldn’t vote for him..because then Kamala. I also also think our impeached president told so many lies which Fox News reported on without evidence that it was hard to dig out of that. Maybe the Republicans love a good conspiracy theory. I don’t know. Renounce socialism how? Actual socialism as an economic system? Sure. The GOP definition of socialism, which can vary from day to day and seems mostly to include using tax dollars to help people you don’t like? That one’s trickier. How do you renounce something that is a moving target not actually based on reality? I really wish people would stop blaming party messaging when it’s really people being uninformed. Didn’t know Biden was a moderate? I’m honestly flabbergasted. I think you’d have to confine yourself entirely to right-wing media to not know that. And I’m not jumping on you per se - I’ve got members of my own party who can’t accurately define socialism, and believed that Liz Warren was peddling it, whatever “it” was. People in the US are largely uninformed, incurious, and self-interested. The GOP has capitalized on that fact by saying that people who are smart and well informed are “elites” and that any ideas about helping people are “socialist.” They promote ignorance by electing the most ignorant man in the world to lead them and making him out to know better than experts in their fields. But sure, the problem is Democratic messaging. Totally. , I watched all three major networks every single night since our impeached president was elected. I am a devotee of MSN.com I watched every debate. The word "socialism" really scared voters away. Health care for all. Bernie Sanders saying that college should be free. I think the message should have been, "Health care for those who need it, ACA". Of course I am looking at this as someone who voted Republican until 2016. As a former Republican I don't say that I disagree with the immigration policy that prioritizes visas for those who can financial contribute from day one. Don't shoot the messenger. I am just telling you what Republicans see. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 9, 2020 22:50:23 GMT
I don’t think those conversations will happen here because the conservatives were ran out of the board. I am a Democrat and I voted for Biden. But, this board has completely become anti-Trump/Republican. I am married to a Trump voter and felt Like the scourge of the earth for not divorcing him for the past few years based on the conversations here, Just commenting that there will be little back and forth as most of the board is now one-sided. Stacy Stacy, I totally agree with you. My dh is also a republican. I actually have a lot of republican friends, because I live in a very red part of the state that voted blue. I understand and agree with some of their points and concerns. No one party is perfect. The whole if you are a republican you are a racist really irritates me. It's just not true. ANd the comments about how can you live/love with someone who has totally different political views then you do? yea, that's called being an adult. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 9, 2020 22:53:48 GMT
The back-and-forth was never helpful, enlightening, or productive. In fact, those threads were always somewhat ugly. So, not having a thread like those of old means bypassing that. If you read my OP, my observation was that they were split between gloating and wound licking and nothing positive came of them. But they were reliable in that they always happened. There have been some good discussions though on here! I've learned a lot from both sides. I wish they would have stayed. I think now that some of Trumps cruelty and dividing of us is gone things will get better and we can have real honest discussions. At least that is what I'm hoping. |
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May 12, 2024 23:14:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 22:53:56 GMT
I don’t think those conversations will happen here because the conservatives were ran out of the board. I am a Democrat and I voted for Biden. But, this board has completely become anti-Trump/Republican. I am married to a Trump voter and felt Like the scourge of the earth for not divorcing him for the past few years based on the conversations here, Just commenting that there will be little back and forth as most of the board is now one-sided. Stacy No, just anti-Trump. The real Republicans are not Trump supporters. Unfortunately there's not many of them. |
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