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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 9, 2020 22:54:54 GMT
Merge, I watched all three major networks every single night since our impeached president was elected. I am a devotee of MSN.com I watched every debate. The word "socialism" really scared voters away. Health care for all. Bernie Sanders saying that college should be free. I think the message should have been, "Health care for those who need it, ACA". Of course I am looking at this as someone who voted Republican until 2016. As a former Republican I don't say that I disagree with the immigration policy that prioritizes visas for those who can financial contribute from day one. Don't shoot the messenger. I am just telling you what Republicans see. Totally agree with you Dex!
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Post by keriwest on Nov 9, 2020 22:56:29 GMT
"I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves." This is what you did wrong. I have to agree with this. I had a big discussion with a friend about this very subject. Just because someone voted for Trump does not make them a racist. Yes, there is the whole implied and associated with rhetoric, but it's just not true. Thank you.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 9, 2020 22:56:56 GMT
I’m not even on Facebook and I’ve read several times in the last few days that Joe Biden supports abortion up until the moment of birth, wants to get rid of police, will get rid of the second amendment, and will turn the United States into a socialist state.
Hell, that’s not even just a gross misunderstanding of socialism; it’s a misunderstanding of presidential powers and our system of government. And it indicates that the last place people went to learn about Biden was the horse’s mouth, the horse’s campaign OR the mainstream press.
Combine that with not understanding Biden’s ideology and (looong) political record, and tens of millions of people truly believe the election has been stolen by an extremist who’s going to “turn us into Venezuela.”
I have no earthly idea what the solution is to those kind of perceptions. But count me among those who think we need to maybe tamp down the blame of the Democratic Party. And not for nothin’, as a teacher, count me among those who don’t think it’s the fault of the educational system (which I’ve read several times here lately). Political systems ARE taught. Civics and government ARE taught. But the teachings of family, community, church and social media often come with a lot stickier adhesive attached.
As far as what’s brewing in NSBR politically, I’ll add that to my “no earthly idea” list. The word “extremist” is thrown around much too cavalierly these days, but I do think we always have a couple famously - and persistently - extreme conservative members here who drown out more reasonable voices. It certainly gives ME, who knows very few conservatives IRL, an unbalanced perception, which I have to often remind myself to resist.
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Post by Really Red on Nov 9, 2020 22:58:54 GMT
I’m not even on Facebook and I’ve read several times in the last few days that Joe Biden supports abortion up until the moment of birth, wants to get rid of police, will get rid of the second amendment, and will turn the United States into a socialist state. Hell, that’s not even just a gross misunderstanding of socialism; it’s a misunderstanding of presidential powers and our system of government. And it indicates that the last place people went to learn about Biden was the horse’s mouth, the horse’s campaign OR the mainstream press. Combine that with not understanding Biden’s ideology and (looong) political record, and tens of millions of people truly believe the election has been stolen by an extremist who’s going to “turn us into Venezuela.” I have no earthly idea what the solution is to those kind of perceptions. But count me among those who think we need to maybe tamp down the blame of the Democratic Party. And not for nothin’, as a teacher, count me among those who don’t think it’s the fault of the educational system (which I’ve read several times here lately). Political systems ARE taught. Civics and government ARE taught. But the teachings of family, community, church and social media often come with a lot stickier adhesive attached. As far as what’s brewing in NSBR politically, I’ll add that to my “no earthly idea” list. The word “extremist” is thrown around much too cavalierly these days, but I do think we always have a couple famously - and persistently - extreme conservative members here who drown out more reasonable voices. It certainly gives ME, who knows very few conservatives IRL, an unbalanced perception, which I have to often remind myself to resist. YES YES YES!!!!
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,355
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Nov 9, 2020 22:59:15 GMT
I'm a lifelong democrat and am dismayed that half of the votes came in for Trump. That's practically a civil war split, because no resolution could come between the two. I can never accept Trump and the actions of his party. I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves. This includes family and friends of mine, who I know to be exactly that. Joe Biden may be president of all America, but he can never give voice to the republican voters who express and continue to spew their hate a they have the past 4 years. I really have come to believe we were on the verge of another Nazi Regime and he was Hitler. How can that ever be reconciled? Here is the quote...the bold is mine. I remember Keri from the old board. I remember all the jealous posts about her new house. I do not remember 1 racist post. Her husband is in the oil industry. If your husband was in the widget industry and our impeached president supported widgets you would too to put food on the table.
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
Posts: 5,633
Jun 26, 2014 14:35:07 GMT
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Post by janeliz on Nov 9, 2020 23:02:33 GMT
I’m interested, in general, in future discussions about how Democrats can bring our progressive wing and our moderate wing together to a common understanding and purpose. I’m also interested in how the Democrats can bring back segments of the working class that have abandoned the party over the last few decades.
Right now, though, I’m only interested in looking forward and hoping to God that President-elect Biden and his administration can somehow clean up the myriad of messes left behind by that disgusting, despicable man. There are now over 600 children, 1/3 of them infants and toddlers, who have been separated from their parents by our government. I’m not interested in figuring out the motives of Trump voters. Look inside your souls and figure your shit out. I can’t help you.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 9, 2020 23:04:14 GMT
I'm a lifelong democrat and am dismayed that half of the votes came in for Trump. That's practically a civil war split, because no resolution could come between the two. I can never accept Trump and the actions of his party. I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves. This includes family and friends of mine, who I know to be exactly that. Joe Biden may be president of all America, but he can never give voice to the republican voters who express and continue to spew their hate a they have the past 4 years. I really have come to believe we were on the verge of another Nazi Regime and he was Hitler. How can that ever be reconciled? I'm really struggling with this as well. I don't think that all people who voted for Trump are actively racist. However, I feel that a vote for Trump was a vote for racism. Even if they weren't thinking, "Hey, I am going to vote for the racist because I like racism" they were able to overlook the racism (and other forms of discrimination, bigotry, and everything else that came with Trump and his character). A FB friend called me out for that statement yesterday and it really bugged me. Partly because I don't think my thoughts are coming across clearly (or at least are not being understood) and partly because I don't want to be bitter about people. But I really am. I was chatting with another pea last night, trying to understand how people could NOT see a vote for Trump as a vote for racism. I still don't quite see eye to eye with that, and don't think my point is coming across clearly in regards to people's priorities not being the same to allow them to vote for Trump. However, I have done some thinking and reflecting on how I can not see this as a concrete issue with no gray. I think part of it is that I have always been someone who has been interested in human rights. To me, the economic policies or things like gas prices and taxes don't make a country great. It is the people and IMO you can't have a great country while many people are being oppressed. And, also IMO, that is exactly what Trump and the current GOP are about. So, it still comes down to values and priorities to me. I have been trying to do some self-reflection to figure out how to move past these thoughts and feelings that I have. I wish that people like keriwest and my FB friend would also do some self-reflection to try to understand where people like me and @myboysandme are coming from. That would go a long way. As for what Democrats could do differently....I think the fear mongering and misinformation is a huge issue. I really don't know what more could be done to fix that. I know that many of us have been trying to share accurate information and challenge people when they post lies or things that are not entirely accurate. It has not helped. I would have liked to see more ads that challenged their lies, but overall, how can we change the willingness of people to believe what they are being told, regardless of whether it is true or not? And I fear it will be 100 times worse now that they are all going onto their own sites that are run by conspiracy theorists.
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Post by keriwest on Nov 9, 2020 23:06:42 GMT
Here is the quote...the bold is mine. I remember Keri from the old board. I remember all the jealous posts about her new house. I do not remember 1 racist post. Her husband is in the oil industry. If your husband was in the widget industry and our impeached president supported widgets you would too to put food on the table. Thank you, Dex.
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Post by Merge on Nov 9, 2020 23:08:16 GMT
Merge, I watched all three major networks every single night since our impeached president was elected. I am a devotee of MSN.com I watched every debate. The word "socialism" really scared voters away. Health care for all. Bernie Sanders saying that college should be free. I think the message should have been, "Health care for those who need it, ACA". Of course I am looking at this as someone who voted Republican until 2016. As a former Republican I don't say that I disagree with the immigration policy that prioritizes visas for those who can financial contribute from day one. Don't shoot the messenger. I am just telling you what Republicans see. Totally agree with you Dex! And I’m telling you that I think many Republicans see what Fox tells them to see. As Amelia said, they don’t understand presidential powers or how government works, much less what socialism is and isn’t. People are often scared because of ignorance - real or willful.
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Post by Merge on Nov 9, 2020 23:09:40 GMT
Here is the quote...the bold is mine. I remember Keri from the old board. I remember all the jealous posts about her new house. I do not remember 1 racist post. Her husband is in the oil industry. If your husband was in the widget industry and our impeached president supported widgets you would too to put food on the table. But the basic premise that Trump is going to save the oil industry long term, and Biden is going to do away with it immediately, is false. At what point do we hold people responsible for operating on facts instead of prejudice?
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 9, 2020 23:12:16 GMT
I’m not even on Facebook and I’ve read several times in the last few days that Joe Biden supports abortion up until the moment of birth, wants to get rid of police, will get rid of the second amendment, and will turn the United States into a socialist state. Hell, that’s not even just a gross misunderstanding of socialism; it’s a misunderstanding of presidential powers and our system of government. And it indicates that the last place people went to learn about Biden was the horse’s mouth, the horse’s campaign OR the mainstream press. Combine that with not understanding Biden’s ideology and (looong) political record, and tens of millions of people truly believe the election has been stolen by an extremist who’s going to “turn us into Venezuela.” I have no earthly idea what the solution is to those kind of perceptions. But count me among those who think we need to maybe tamp down the blame of the Democratic Party. And not for nothin’, as a teacher, count me among those who don’t think it’s the fault of the educational system (which I’ve read several times here lately). Political systems ARE taught. Civics and government ARE taught. But the teachings of family, community, church and social media often come with a lot stickier adhesive attached. As far as what’s brewing in NSBR politically, I’ll add that to my “no earthly idea” list. The word “extremist” is thrown around much too cavalierly these days, but I do think we always have a couple famously - and persistently - extreme conservative members here who drown out more reasonable voices. It certainly gives ME, who knows very few conservatives IRL, an unbalanced perception, which I have to often remind myself to resist. YES YES YES!!!! You sound like Meg Ryan in that restaurant scene in “When Harry Met Sally.”
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,355
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Nov 9, 2020 23:12:48 GMT
I remember Keri from the old board. I remember all the jealous posts about her new house. I do not remember 1 racist post. Her husband is in the oil industry. If your husband was in the widget industry and our impeached president supported widgets you would too to put food on the table. Isn't saying she needed to vote Trump to put food on her table quite an over reach? There was no one under threat of going anywhere near hungry. Read my post. If your husband sold widgets (or worked in the oil industry) you would support a candidate who shared your values. I am not over reaching. It is so easy to judge others because their political affiliation is not the same as yours. I just refuse to accept that the Republican party is full of racists and nare-do-wells. We all do what is best for our family. Sorry it is the truth. You know you would do the same . Just because I am a former Republican doesn't makes me a racist. I just happen to believe in pro-choice which some might find abhorrent.
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scorpeao
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,521
Location: NorCal USA
Jun 25, 2014 21:04:54 GMT
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Post by scorpeao on Nov 9, 2020 23:13:49 GMT
The division is just going to continue until laws are enacted, or the fairness doctrine is put back in place, that make the media tell the truth. Regan did away with the Fairness doctrine which required broadcasters to air both sides of controversial issues. Now, we have people like Rush Limbaugh spewing lies and Fox News spinning the truth. Until that changes we are going to continue with these issues. Trump is stupid. He's not smart enough to over throw the government, but there is someone, somewhere in the USA developing a plan to run President and turn us into a dictatorship...I have no doubt that the Koch brothers will be financially backing this person too.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,610
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Nov 9, 2020 23:24:34 GMT
"I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves." This is what you did wrong. I have to agree with this. I had a big discussion with a friend about this very subject. Just because someone voted for Trump does not make them a racist. Yes, there is the whole implied and associated with rhetoric, but it's just not true. I'm going to agree too. Had a long discussion with a friend of mine who voted for Trump. She is not racist and she is not dumb (at all) but she really resented being described that way over and over and over again by Democrats. I think she's someone who we could have won over if we hadn't become the party of "snobby elites" as she put it. She is a wonderful person, but she's very conservative at heart and, despite thinking that Biden is a decent man and Trump is pretty awful, she's concerned about the far left progressives and their influence on Biden.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 9, 2020 23:24:49 GMT
I have been trying to do some self-reflection to figure out how to move past these thoughts and feelings that I have. I wish that people like keriwest and my FB friend would also do some self-reflection to try to understand where people like me and @myboysandme are coming from. That would go a long way. Oh, Kristin, I have reflected. I can't stand behind the thinking that every republican is a racist. I just can't. People have different priorities. Yours is your bi-racial family and human rights. Other's are the economy, abortion, whatever it may be. Do you believe in every single thing in the democratic party? No, you don't.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 9, 2020 23:26:58 GMT
Read my post. If your husband sold widgets (or worked in the oil industry) you would support a candidate who shared your values. I am not over reaching. It is so easy to judge others because their political affiliation is not the same as yours. I just refuse to accept that the Republican party is full of racists and nare-do-wells. We all do what is best for our family. Sorry it is the truth. You know you would do the same . Just because I am a former Republican doesn't makes me a racist. I just happen to believe in pro-choice which some might find abhorrent. I think Dex and I are from this same state that is sooo divided right now because of Trump. We have many farmers, loggers, miners, that all rely on their livelihood and support frin the republican party. Same as Keri and oil. So we see both sides.
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sarahruby
Full Member
Posts: 300
Jul 1, 2014 0:40:17 GMT
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Post by sarahruby on Nov 9, 2020 23:37:34 GMT
Merge, I watched all three major networks every single night since our impeached president was elected. I am a devotee of MSN.com I watched every debate. The word "socialism" really scared voters away. Health care for all. Bernie Sanders saying that college should be free. I think the message should have been, "Health care for those who need it, ACA". Of course I am looking at this as someone who voted Republican until 2016. As a former Republican I don't say that I disagree with the immigration policy that prioritizes visas for those who can financial contribute from day one. Don't shoot the messenger. I am just telling you what Republicans see. I can only speak for myself, this is spot on.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,529
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Nov 9, 2020 23:41:43 GMT
Can someone explain to me how you can support racism but not be a racist?
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Post by jeremysgirl on Nov 9, 2020 23:42:03 GMT
I think you're all missing the bigger picture. And that is a Republican vote is a vote for the status quo. Republicans haven't put forth anything resembling policy making in a long time. And a lot of people like that. Even his slogan make America great again was predicated on a notion of america as prosperous nation years ago. There are people living in the past and people living in the future. And that's the real divide. It isn't racism. Not to single her out but keriwest voted for trump because of the oil industry. that's clinging to the past. Democrats want to address climate change, that's forward thinking.
And really it is like a criticism of how we today live our lives. It's not perfect enough. Well for those voters it is comfortable. They don't want change. They want what they currently have.
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Post by elaine on Nov 9, 2020 23:47:26 GMT
I love this place. 😜 My intent was to have a thread about what the Dem party could do to better address the needs of those groups with less societal power under our umbrella. The desires of the board are to air it all out! I am torn between expressing my own impressions as a Jew, having to listen to our President issue an anti-Semitic dog whistle just a few days ago about the “wall street bankers” stealing the election and living through more anti-Semitic hate crimes in the past 4 years in our nation since before I was born, and sticking to my intent that this be a thread that focuses on the Dems and what WE can do and change. I have lost all interest in dialogue with anyone who supports the blatant anti-Semitic rhetoric that spews forth from Trump. They can do and say whatever they want. I still am interested, at some point in time, in a discussion WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY members, as to what WE can do to address the disenfranchised groups.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Nov 9, 2020 23:52:52 GMT
Sorry elaine if I missed your intent. But my post still stands. I think we have to convince Republicans that our ideas about change are actually going to change their lives for the better. They are alright with what they have now. We put forth policy ideas that want to change things. We have to show them that they will definitely benefit.
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Post by 950nancy on Nov 9, 2020 23:53:03 GMT
Only 62% of eligible voters voted. It is a huge turnout, but almost a third of the people who could have voted didn't. So HALF the US didn't vote for Trump. Close to 2/3 of eligble voters didn't. Still, the 70 million who did was kind of hard to swallow. Looking at my FB friends, many of the older, white females sided with trump on abortion and saving religion, and then there were more than few who believe what Trump was saying about turning the US into a socialist country. Trump's stories of what Joe would do to the country really effected some people hard. I was shocked that no one brought up gun control. I thought that might end up being a hot button issue. Trump got so much free air time that his nonsense spewed far and wide and I think eventually people just began to believe these things were true. And then there is also the very high ratings at FOX. When you only watch one station as a news source, you tend to believe what they say. I will say that there were a few news anchors who have just had it with Trump on Fox.
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Post by Skellinton on Nov 9, 2020 23:54:02 GMT
Isn't saying she needed to vote Trump to put food on her table quite an over reach? There was no one under threat of going anywhere near hungry. Read my post. If your husband sold widgets (or worked in the oil industry) you would support a candidate who shared your values. I am not over reaching. It is so easy to judge others because their political affiliation is not the same as yours. I just refuse to accept that the Republican party is full of racists and nare-do-wells. We all do what is best for our family. Sorry it is the truth. You know you would do the same . Just because I am a former Republican doesn't makes me a racist. I just happen to believe in pro-choice which some might find abhorrent. I have been unemployed since March due to Covid shut downs. Trump absolutely wants to open schools back up meaning I could go back to work. I did not EVER consider voting for Trump, not even for a second. What is best for my family doesn’t trump decency or morality. It is not more important then the basic human rights of other people. It is not more important then the health of the environment. It sure as hell isn't more important then the lives of all the Americans lost to Covid due to the lack of Trump’s failure to manage the pandemic.
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,355
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Nov 9, 2020 23:54:33 GMT
Read my post. If your husband sold widgets (or worked in the oil industry) you would support a candidate who shared your values. I am not over reaching. It is so easy to judge others because their political affiliation is not the same as yours. I just refuse to accept that the Republican party is full of racists and nare-do-wells. We all do what is best for our family. Sorry it is the truth. You know you would do the same . Just because I am a former Republican doesn't makes me a racist. I just happen to believe in pro-choice which some might find abhorrent. That's exactly what I DO mean. If I worked in the widget industry...or my husband did, I would absolutely not vote for a man like Trump even if he were going to make widgets the most lucrative business on earth. Seriously. I know that you don't believe that, but it doesn't make it not true. There are other things that are way, way more important. I think that is the fundamental difference. I can not understand WHY they would base a vote on that and they can not understand WHY I wouldn't. It might be racism for some, but for others it is the willingness to overlook the consequences for others, in order to have more for yourself. It is not racism for all, but it does take being willing to over look racism, to gain for yourself. That's a price many are willing to pay. Especially when it is others that are doing the paying. It's like asking if a person votes for what will be best for their family or best for society. There are people on each side of that, and both sides have a hard time believing that good people could fall on the other side. I mis-posted when I said my decision to vote Democrat in 2016 was solely based on a woman's right to chose. There were other issues too which aren't really necessary to explain at this time. I am glad you have taken the moral high road and are strong in your convictions. I just think that most people would like to believe they feel as you do. But when it comes down to your husband having a job, most of us would want to eat.
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,355
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Nov 9, 2020 23:58:51 GMT
Read my post. If your husband sold widgets (or worked in the oil industry) you would support a candidate who shared your values. I am not over reaching. It is so easy to judge others because their political affiliation is not the same as yours. I just refuse to accept that the Republican party is full of racists and nare-do-wells. We all do what is best for our family. Sorry it is the truth. You know you would do the same . Just because I am a former Republican doesn't makes me a racist. I just happen to believe in pro-choice which some might find abhorrent. I have been unemployed since March due to Covid shut downs. Trump absolutely wants to open schools back up meaning I could go back to work. I did not EVER consider voting for Trump, not even for a second. I am sorry for your current situation.
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
Posts: 5,633
Jun 26, 2014 14:35:07 GMT
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Post by janeliz on Nov 10, 2020 0:00:24 GMT
I love this place. 😜 My intent was to have a thread about what the Dem party could do to better address the needs of those groups with less societal power under our umbrella. The desires of the board are to air it all out! I am torn between expressing my own impressions as a Jew, having to listen to our President issue an anti-Semitic dog whistle just a few days ago about the “wall street bankers” stealing the election and living through more anti-Semitic hate crimes in the past 4 years in our nation since before I was born, and sticking to my intent that this be a thread that focuses on the Dems and what WE can do and change. I have lost all interest in dialogue with anyone who supports the blatant anti-Semitic rhetoric that spews forth from Trump. They can do and say whatever they want. I still am interested, at some point in time, in a discussion WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY members, as to what WE can do to address the disenfranchised groups. You caught me at a moment when I was really pissed off about an article I’d just read. 😌 Anyway, I think your discussion topic is a good one. I’ll say this—Joe Biden owes an enormous debt to black women in this country. They are truly the backbone of our party.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,529
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Nov 10, 2020 0:02:50 GMT
As far as the Democrats go, we need to figure out what our message is, unite around it and sell it. Once Biden was the nominee, we did that and it worked and he was elected.
Here is something Rahm Emanuel said on the ABC Sunday show:
I also think AOC has some valid points about the party and the platform that should not be discounted. I know there are lots of moderates who may disagree but we need to dig into the details. It's looking like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal are not the boogie man some want you to think it is.
I need to take a deeper dive into this but these are interesting stats.
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Post by pierogi on Nov 10, 2020 0:02:58 GMT
excuse me please, but who are you quoting? I don't see that in the original post. The quote feature makes it much easier to follow comments like this and give them proper credence. I wouldn’t be surprised if I said this somewhere. Because I feel that way much of the time. Even though I in no way represent the Democratic Party, its leadership, its platform and its messaging. You are one powerful lady, Elaine. All those Trumpers hang on your every word and vote accordingly.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 6:15:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 0:12:35 GMT
I can never see his supporters as anything but racist hateful people with interest only in themselves C'mon they're not all racist. Some are homophobes. Or misogynists. Or "I got mine, you get yours" but for others it is the willingness to overlook the consequences for others, in order to have more for yourself. Yeah. That.
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Post by hop2 on Nov 10, 2020 0:15:40 GMT
I remember Keri from the old board. I remember all the jealous posts about her new house. I do not remember 1 racist post. Her husband is in the oil industry. If your husband was in the widget industry and our impeached president supported widgets you would too to put food on the table. But the basic premise that Trump is going to save the oil industry long term, and Biden is going to do away with it immediately, is false. At what point do we hold people responsible for operating on facts instead of prejudice? Exactly, Trump has done more to damage the oil industry with his cozying up to Russia and his back room deals with the Saudis, his taunting China & his trade wars than the Democrats ever did. He may verbally support the oil industry, he awarded drilling rights in places a democrat never would. However, the value of that disappears when it comes up against his international policies which damaged the industry as a whole. It doesn’t do much to have drilling rights if you can’t sell the oil for the cost of getting it. Trump will gladly take your money to drill oil you will struggle to sell. The oil industry shrunk more under Trumps administration than it did in the last 4 years of the previous administration. No, it’s not just covid the industry was heading steadily down before that. It doesn’t take much to figure out his ‘support’ of the oil industry was all smoke and mirrors as with his other 20,000 lies.
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