|
|
Post by onelasttime on Jan 24, 2022 15:24:30 GMT
From BBC News.. link“Vaccine mandates: 'I lost my job for being unvaccinated'Danielle Thornton was in the school pick-up line waiting for her children when she learned she would face a life-changing choice: get the Covid-19 vaccine or lose her job of almost nine years at the bank Citigroup. She and her husband had watched for months as bosses across the US introduced vaccine mandates, knowing the family might face this moment. Then, in the form of an email on her phone, it arrived. "We had many, many conversations about it," she says. " But ultimately we decided that our freedom was more important than a pay cheque." Danielle is one of thousands of people across America opting to lose their job rather than get the Covid-19 jabs.” The only reasons there are mandates is because people have decided not to get vaccinated against a virus that has caused and is causing a pandemic. And their reasoning is none other then “you can’t tell me what to do” mentality. It be one thing if the virus didn’t spread as easily as it does, or that the unvaccinated are currently putting untold pressure on healthcare workers. Then they could chose not to get vaccinated and if they should get the virus then could go off by themselves and either survive or die by themselves. But that’s not the case. Bottom line people who can get vaccinated and chose not to get vaccinated are being selfish and endangering those around them. IMO |
|
peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,613
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
|
Post by peabay on Jan 24, 2022 15:33:29 GMT
Does she wear a seatbelt?
Does she put her tray in the upright position upon takeoff and landing in a plane?
I could list a thousand other "freedoms" we give up to function in society.
These people need to get a fucking grip.
|
|
sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,050
Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
|
Post by sueg on Jan 24, 2022 15:37:34 GMT
I got vaccinated against Covid as I saw it as a step towards getting back our freedom.
At this point, I am not required to be vaccinated for my job, but it wouldn't be an issue anyway, as I am fully vaxxed and boostered. Most importantly for me, having the vaccinations means I am now able to travel back to Australia to visit my family who I haven't seen for 2 years.
|
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Jan 24, 2022 15:39:11 GMT
She made her choice. Companies tend to not want unvaccinated people around. So now she has her freedom. Everybody’s happy.
|
|
maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,731
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
|
Post by maryannscraps on Jan 24, 2022 15:49:43 GMT
Companies make requirements for hiring employees all the time. Drug tests, criminal background checks, having college degrees, having a driver's license, etc. Feel free to not apply or be fired if you can't meet those requirements. The same applies for vaccines. As a consultant, I still have to comply with certain companies' training requirements or lose my contract. I doubt I'll be allowed in any of my customers' buildings without being vaccinated (right now, they're all WFH.) I guess I could refuse, but I'd lose the job. My choice to vaccinate, my freedom to keep the job.
|
|
luckyjune
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,685 
Location: In the rainy, rainy WA
|
Post by luckyjune on Jan 24, 2022 16:03:27 GMT
As I told my 7th graders, you are free to do or say whatever you please. That doesn't mean you are free from the consequences of your decision. Freedom to not get the vaccine=freedom to not have a job. It's not complicated.
I think what has my mind boggled is the complete cognitive disconnect. Don't get the shot, but get covid and boy howdy, do they want what the hospitals can give to save their lives. It's just like the people who have a running fit about socialism (which they cannot define) and how we are turning Marxist (which they also cannot define) but have no problem calling the fire department if their house is on fire or calling the county if there are too many potholes in the road.
|
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Jan 24, 2022 16:13:22 GMT
As I told my 7th graders, you are free to do or say whatever you please. That doesn't mean you are free from the consequences of your decision. Freedom to not get the vaccine=freedom to not have a job. It's not complicated. I think what has my mind boggled is the complete cognitive disconnect. Don't get the shot, but get covid and boy howdy, do they want what the hospitals can give to save their lives. It's just like the people who have a running fit about socialism (which they cannot define) and how we are turning Marxist (which they also cannot define) but have no problem calling the fire department if their house is on fire or calling the county if there are too many potholes in the road. And many of them blame the hospitals when an unvaccinated family member dies. It. Makes. No. Sense. |
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,151
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jan 24, 2022 16:18:29 GMT
How is this different that any other vaccines we've been required to get? My kid, now an adult was REQUIRED to get a vaccine against chicken pox in order to stay in school! We've been getting vaccines and requiring vaccines for a very long time...so what's the difference now?
|
|
|
|
Post by littlemama on Jan 24, 2022 16:18:38 GMT
Choices have consequences. 🤷🏼♀️
|
|
grammanisi
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,741
|
Post by grammanisi on Jan 24, 2022 16:20:33 GMT
My sister and her family refuse to get vaccinated. Half of her family lives in Florida, the other half in Michigan. Her son, in Michigan, has a very good job(my son in law works the same place), the company is talking about vaccine mandates. My nephew has said that he will move his family to Florida if that becomes the case.
I cannot wrap my head around this.
|
|
|
|
Post by melanell on Jan 24, 2022 16:26:04 GMT
There are countless things we all do, that we otherwise might not opt to do, in order to be allowed to go certain places, work certain places, pray certain places, play certain places; to be allowed to purchase certain things, operate certain items, use certain services. And there's a decent chance that when we were first told that we would need to do some of those "A"s in order to do or have or experience those "B"s, we likely grumbled about "A" to some extent. But then we moved on with life, and we either did A, or skipped B.
This vaccine is the new "A". There will be more "A"s down the road. And no, this vaccine won't be the cause of all of the other "A"s down the road. We've been having "A"s of all sorts since before any of us on this board were even born.
I once knew someone who was vehemently against drug testing for employees. He thought it was completely unjust to make people test before being employed or to be randomly tested to remain employed. He wound up passing on more and more jobs and being fired from at least a few as well. No one said he couldn't have his belief. He simply couldn't work in certain places and still practice that belief. And yes, the list of places he could not work kept growing. I've lost touch with him now, so I don't know if he's changed his mind, or what he's doing these days. But I know he had a choice to not do "A" and he went with that choice, even if it eliminated his ability to do "B", which was to remain employed by the company for which he was working.
|
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jan 24, 2022 16:32:41 GMT
Many of us had to pay a lot of money and spend four or more years of our lives in order to have the jobs we have. A free jab seems like a non-issue compared to that. But you know, it's always all about *them* and what they want.
(My sister's family remains unvaccinated. I guess her husband's job isn't requiring it. She doesn't work, so ...)
|
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Jan 24, 2022 16:36:56 GMT
A vaccine doesn’t equal lost freedom.
The government expanding its powers to mandate something it has never mandated before equals a loss of freedom.
Liberals like to purposely conflate the two issues.
|
|
|
|
Post by nlwilkins on Jan 24, 2022 16:37:57 GMT
Actually, a person deciding it was their own decision to make does not take into consideration how it affects us all in various ways. The most important to me, is the fact if you do not get vaccinated, then you are more likely to spread the virus before finding out you have it. So that affects me and my loved ones. So we get the vaccinations and still quarantine ourselves. There are people out there all around us who have not been vaccinated and who might be shedding the virus before they even know they have it. An larger issue, is the more people who get the virus, the more likely variants arise that mean the medical situation will never catch up. Because, if you get one variant, sooner or later there will be another variant that is not protected by having the first one. Also, more people in the hospital with the virus means getting my medical care becomes an issue due to overloaded and overworked hospitals.
So when a person does not get vaccinated, they are affecting my rights and freedom from disease in public places. When you do NOT get vaccinated I lose some of my freedoms.
|
|
|
|
Post by nightnurse on Jan 24, 2022 16:42:40 GMT
A vaccine doesn’t equal lost freedom. The government expanding its powers to mandate something it has never mandated before equals a loss of freedom. Liberals like to purposely conflate the two issues. The government has mandated vaccines before. Why is this one the hill conservatives are literally willing to die on? |
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Jan 24, 2022 16:45:26 GMT
A vaccine doesn’t equal lost freedom. The government expanding its powers to mandate something it has never mandated before equals a loss of freedom. Liberals like to purposely conflate the two issues. The government has mandated vaccines before. Why is this one the hill conservatives are literally willing to die on? State governments have. The federal government has not. Again, an absolute refusal to distinguish and understand the distinction between the two. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:08:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 16:50:45 GMT
No.
|
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jan 24, 2022 16:51:10 GMT
The government has mandated vaccines before. Why is this one the hill conservatives are literally willing to die on? State governments have. The federal government has not. Again, an absolute refusal to distinguish and understand the distinction between the two. We understand the distinction just fine. But we're in uncharted waters here where many states would refuse to issue such a mandate not because of concerns about safety or anything to do with public health, but for political reasons. If some states are not willing to meet their obligation to keep the public safe because the governor's concerned about winning his next election, should those of us who live in such a state have no federal recourse? As the previous poster said - it's a hill y'all are literally willing to die on. And worse, you want to take other people down with you. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:08:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 16:51:45 GMT
The government has mandated vaccines before. Why is this one the hill conservatives are literally willing to die on? State governments have. The federal government has not. Again, an absolute refusal to distinguish and understand the distinction between the two. Um, military. 🤷♀️ They are federal. |
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Jan 24, 2022 16:52:35 GMT
State governments have. The federal government has not. Again, an absolute refusal to distinguish and understand the distinction between the two. We understand the distinction just fine. But we're in uncharted waters here where many states would refuse to issue such a mandate not because of concerns about safety or anything to do with public health, but for political reasons. If some states are not willing to meet their obligation to keep the public safe because the governor's concerned about winning his next election, should those of us who live in such a state have no federal recourse? As the previous poster said - it's a hill y'all are literally willing to die on. And worse, you want to take other people down with you. Night nurse clearly doesn’t. I was responding to her statement. Numerous peas have made “what difference does that make” comments any time I attempt to point it out. So, no, clearly people don’t understand the difference. |
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jan 24, 2022 16:55:20 GMT
We understand the distinction just fine. But we're in uncharted waters here where many states would refuse to issue such a mandate not because of concerns about safety or anything to do with public health, but for political reasons. If some states are not willing to meet their obligation to keep the public safe because the governor's concerned about winning his next election, should those of us who live in such a state have no federal recourse? As the previous poster said - it's a hill y'all are literally willing to die on. And worse, you want to take other people down with you. Night nurse clearly doesn’t. I was responding to her statement. Numerous peas have made “what difference does that make” comments any time I attempt to point it out. So, no, clearly people don’t understand the difference. You made a blanket statement above about "liberals." I am a liberal. Your statement does not apply to me. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:08:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 17:01:49 GMT
Interesting that she doesn't extend the same level of "freedom" to Citibank to have the right to have a full and healthy workforce to enable them to run their business as efficiently as possible. Not to mention their additional financial liability that they would have to pay for her health insurance as an unvaccinated employee. If these people think that their health insurance costs are not going to go up, for both them and their employers, they need to pull their heads out of the sand. Insurance is all about risk.
Every job has a range of conditions of employment and every employee has the freedom to choose whether they want to accept them to secure that particular job. Employees can't start to pick and chose which conditions they are willing to accept just to suit themselves. It doesn't work that way.
I guess these anti vaxxers that protest about the loss of their freedom for having to get a vaccine that saves lives are OK with the FDA protecting their health and well being against unsafe food or the FSIS that makes sure that the egg they have for breakfast is free from salmonella. Best we get rid of all these safety agencies and let us have the freedom to eat what we want then./s
I'm not directing that at just Americans but to the idiot anti vaxxers we have over here too.
|
|
sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
|
Post by sassyangel on Jan 24, 2022 17:13:19 GMT
It’s the equivalent of wanting to set your couch on fire in an apartment building, because it’s your couch and your apartment and no one can tell you what to do. 🥴
|
|
sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
|
Post by sassyangel on Jan 24, 2022 17:15:38 GMT
Night nurse clearly doesn’t. I was responding to her statement. Numerous peas have made “what difference does that make” comments any time I attempt to point it out. So, no, clearly people don’t understand the difference. You made a blanket statement above about "liberals." I am a liberal. Your statement does not apply to me. Me either. Doesn’t apply to many of us, I would guess. 😏 |
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Jan 24, 2022 17:17:03 GMT
Interesting that she doesn't extend the same level of "freedom" to Citibank to have the right to have a full and healthy workforce to enable them to run their business as efficiently as possible. Not to mention their additional financial liability that they would have to pay for her health insurance as an unvaccinated employee. If these people think that their health insurance costs are not going to go up, for both them and their employers, they need to pull their heads out of the sand. Insurance is all about risk. Every job has a range of conditions of employment and every employee has the freedom to choose whether they want to accept them to secure that particular job. Employees can't start to pick and chose which conditions they are willing to accept just to suit themselves. It doesn't work that way. I guess these anti vaxxers that protest about the loss of their freedom for having to get a vaccine that saves lives are OK with the FDA protecting their health and well being against unsafe food or the FSIS that makes sure that the egg they have for breakfast is free from salmonella. Best we get rid of all these safety agencies and let us have the freedom to eat what we want then./s I'm not directing that at just Americans but to the idiot anti vaxxers we have over here too. We have more than our share of angry, unvaccinated types. From what I can tell, it seems like they want everything to go their way. No vaccine for them, but they should be able to mix with vaccinated people at work-many of whom have spent the past few years taking precautions so that they don’t get sick. To many vaccinated people, who are STILL trying not to get sick, this seems unfair and wrong. I know several unvaccinated people, and I give them a wide berth, as do my friends. We haven’t spent the past two years being careful just to have a possible Covid Petri dish nearby. |
|
sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
|
Post by sassyangel on Jan 24, 2022 17:23:13 GMT
As I told my 7th graders, you are free to do or say whatever you please. That doesn't mean you are free from the consequences of your decision. Freedom to not get the vaccine=freedom to not have a job. It's not complicated. I think what has my mind boggled is the complete cognitive disconnect. Don't get the shot, but get covid and boy howdy, do they want what the hospitals can give to save their lives. It's just like the people who have a running fit about socialism (which they cannot define) and how we are turning Marxist (which they also cannot define) but have no problem calling the fire department if their house is on fire or calling the county if there are too many potholes in the road. And many of them blame the hospitals when an unvaccinated family member dies. It. Makes. No. Sense. There was a woman in Minnesota who got a court order to keep her husband intubated after 2 months. She was convinced he was improving and would recover and that the hospital hadn’t done all they could to care for him. Because he lost 30lbs while being intubated. 🥴🤷🏼♀️ He died in the Houston hospital that she successfully transferred him to the other day. |
|
|
|
Post by Delta Dawn on Jan 24, 2022 17:40:04 GMT
The only freedom I lost was being sick for 2 long days after the vaccine. I am a wuss. I will do it again if necessary but not happily. I will still do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Jan 24, 2022 17:41:08 GMT
And many of them blame the hospitals when an unvaccinated family member dies. It. Makes. No. Sense. There was a woman in Minnesota who got a court order to keep her husband intubated after 2 months. She was convinced he was improving and would recover and that the hospital hadn’t done all they could to care for him. Because he lost 30lbs while being intubated. 🥴🤷🏼♀️ He died in the Houston hospital that she successfully transferred him to the other day.  I shouldn’t be shocked any more, but… |
|
|
|
Post by voltagain on Jan 24, 2022 17:47:41 GMT
From BBC News.. link“Vaccine mandates: 'I lost my job for being unvaccinated'<edited for brevity> The only reasons there are mandates is because people have decided not to get vaccinated against a virus that has caused and is causing a pandemic. And their reasoning is none other then “you can’t tell me what to do” mentality. It be one thing if the virus didn’t spread as easily as it does, or that the unvaccinated are currently putting untold pressure on healthcare workers. Then they could chose not to get vaccinated and if they should get the virus then could go off by themselves and either survive or die by themselves. But that’s not the case. Bottom line people who can get vaccinated and chose not to get vaccinated are being selfish and endangering those around them. IMO She had the options for a medical or religious exemption but took neither. The federal govt is not mandateing vaccination. The Supreme Court has ruled they can't. But companies, schools etc CAN mandate them. CitiCorp requires them or file for an exemption. She chose to walk away. But you can bet she will expect an insurance company or goverment to pay for her medical expenses. |
|
|
|
Post by voltagain on Jan 24, 2022 17:56:15 GMT
A vaccine doesn’t equal lost freedom. The government expanding its powers to mandate something it has never mandated before equals a loss of freedom. Liberals like to purposely conflate the two issues. The government mandate was blocked by the Supreme Court. But companies have always been allowed to set standards of safe practice for their industry. And that can include being vaccinated for just anything they deem necessary to keep their company running smoothly. It is not good for companies to continue to be short staffed because people are out sick with a disease that can be prevented or shortened by being vaccinated. It is not in the companies interest to be paying sick leave or increased insurance costs for something that can be vaccinated for. |
|
I shouldn’t be shocked any more, but…