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Post by monklady123 on Jun 4, 2022 20:19:55 GMT
A neighbor has just told me that her 4/5 year-old (not sure if he's had his birthday yet but he's going into kindergarten in the fall) has this. Apparently it started sometime after his daycare reopened after being closed for the pandemic. It took several MONTHS before the daycare even mentioned that the kid wasn't talking! They'd send home the normal reports -- "today we did fingerpainting, and learned about the letter 'B'" but never said he wouldn't talk. The parents had no idea because he's a chatterbox at home, and because he was too young to be vaccinated they were all trying to be careful and not go to events or out in groups. So they had no idea. Anyway, she asked me about the kindergarten teachers at the school down the street where he'll go in the fall and where I do all my subbing. Obviously they'll be having a meeting with the principal but they're waiting for his evaluation from the psychologist who went to observe him at daycare before they see her. The mom was just wondering about the styles of the kindergarten teachers and which might be a good fit for her kid. And if I'd ever met a kid with this mutism in school, which I haven't. One of our kindergarten teachers is trained in special ed -- she used to be one of the school-wide resource teachers until they switched her to a classroom. She has a lovely calm manner and obviously has more training that the other teachers so it seems to me that would be a good fit. Another one is also calm and soft-spoken -- I've never heard her raise her voice, ever. And the third is definitely not the teacher for this kid... she's an excellent teacher but she's very strict and does raise her voice. Apparently the second anyone gets angry or even annoyed this kid just totally shuts down. Just wondered if anyone here has experience with this? Of course I've googled, and I have two books coming from the library. I feel like I need to know because I do a lot of subbing in kindergarten, plus they're my neighbors and I like them.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 4, 2022 20:22:08 GMT
I do know that counseling is recommended.
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Post by monklady123 on Jun 4, 2022 20:25:45 GMT
I do know that counseling is recommended. Yes. And they have tried to find one. One had an opening...in October. Others "might" start taking patients after Christmas. It's really awful. . The woman who's doing the evaluation is a psychologist who had some connection to the daycare, and she offered to at least do that much. But she can't take him on as a patient. The parents are going to start a wider search.
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Post by Lexica on Jun 4, 2022 20:35:28 GMT
How very upsetting for these parents. I have nothing to offer regarding knowledge of selective mutism in children, I just wanted to say they are fortunate to have you as a resource. You clearly care about this child and I'm sure you are going to be very helpful to them as they do whatever they can to get their child the help he needs.
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Post by Skellinton on Jun 4, 2022 20:41:44 GMT
I have actually had 3 students with selective mutism. I am headed to a movie but if no one wiser pops in I will post my experiences and recommendations this evening!
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Jun 4, 2022 20:50:58 GMT
I do know that counseling is recommended. Yes. And they have tried to find one. One had an opening...in October. Others "might" start taking patients after Christmas. It's really awful. . The woman who's doing the evaluation is a psychologist who had some connection to the daycare, and she offered to at least do that much. But she can't take him on as a patient. The parents are going to start a wider search. Have they asked their pediatrician for a referral to psychiatry? (I wouldn't limit myself to "psychologist", and sometimes the referral will help get you squeezed onto a schedule.)
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Post by Merge on Jun 4, 2022 20:52:22 GMT
I’ve had a couple of students with selective mutism over the years. One of them loved to sing but I never heard her talk
I don’t have much advice except to say that mom shouldn’t hesitate to take the results of his evaluation to his school before school even starts. The school district may be required by law to provide some services/therapies for him.
Besides choosing the best classroom teacher for him, please make sure all his specialist teachers are aware of the condition. We don’t always get informed if a child is being evaluated for sped services and someone might think he is being stubborn or simply refusing to speak.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 4, 2022 21:03:52 GMT
My DGS started public pre-school at 3 .. they had many programs. He did speak, but not always 'on demand' and the school started him in speach ... He was just obstinate. He didn't eat either, other then a few chosen items.
He's all grown up, doing well in the Army!!
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Post by malibou on Jun 4, 2022 21:47:02 GMT
I wonder if a speech therapist might be able to give insight on this.
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Post by ntsf on Jun 4, 2022 22:12:10 GMT
there is something called childfind.. I think they need to pursue the special education route to get an iep ..or what an early education one is called. start with pediatrician..they should know local resources and look for local or at least in state parent support resources.
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Post by monklady123 on Jun 4, 2022 22:38:08 GMT
I have actually had 3 students with selective mutism. I am headed to a movie but if no one wiser pops in I will post my experiences and recommendations this evening! Yes, I'd love to hear your experience.
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Post by monklady123 on Jun 4, 2022 22:41:30 GMT
there is something called childfind.. I think they need to pursue the special education route to get an iep ..or what an early education one is called. start with pediatrician..they should know local resources and look for local or at least in state parent support resources. Yes, they would have had him evaluated much earlier, maybe through Child Find, if they'd known. But because the schools and daycares were shut down no one went anywhere. It was over a year when everyone was at home and the boy talks just fine at home. So they had absolutely no idea there was a problem. Another consequence of the pandemic.
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Post by worldwanderer75 on Jun 5, 2022 0:50:01 GMT
I'm a speech therapist and selective mutism considered outside our scope of practice. It is more appropriate for a counselor and psychologist.
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Post by peasapie on Jun 5, 2022 1:39:35 GMT
I had one student with this, and he had an in-class support person helping him throughout the day. He was also in therapy outside of school, and the support teacher would coordinate with the therapist. The thing I remember doing most was articulating things as he was doing them (you’re doing a good job cutting that shamrock out), as well as giving lots of praise. You’ll find some very good suggestions here : childmind.org/guide/teachers-guide-to-selective-mutism/#block_b002c802-73b6-4ca8-b432-84973d5cb0d7
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Post by Skellinton on Jun 5, 2022 1:45:47 GMT
I have actually had 3 students with selective mutism. I am headed to a movie but if no one wiser pops in I will post my experiences and recommendations this evening! Yes, I'd love to hear your experience. All 3 kids were successful in school, I imagine that is a huge concern for parents, but all 3 of them were able to navigate school very well. One child I never heard talk, I never even witnessed them speaking to friends, but they did have friends, so there was obviously some communication worked out with them. This child was not in my pre-K, but our before school and summer camp program. I actually looked them up on Facebook and they are an attorney now. The second one would whisper to their sibling when they were together and eventually would speak one or two words to me if no one was near us. I would see them whispering to friends in class or outside though. This continued through 5th grade. The third child is now in first grade and didn’t hardly speak at all the first year they were with us. The second year they would say a word or two to me at the start of the year (again if we were away from other kids and teachers) and eventually we could have full conversations as long as no one came near us. As soon as someone else walked over they would go silent. We had a lot of good conversations in the hallway while waiting for other kids or during recess. Towards the end of our time in Pre-K they would whisper talk at a table activity if they had a question or wanted to point something out to another child. This child is very bright and I am pretty sure they were able to read at age 4. They were certainly able to add and subtract single digits. This is obviously not anything we taught, it was just apparent in convos and by their actions with our table activities. This child was in class when we were shut down for covid and I was very worried for them as they had made such good progress. We had a teacher that this child was familiar with due to our class being “buddies” while we were in person so we lobbied hard to have our student put in their class. The student actually did very well with the online class and would contribute to class discussions and was willing to do small presentations even. When they started back in person they were back to being more selective, but definitely less so then they were in our class. Now that they are in first grade and I see them all the time in the hallway, they are still quiet, but I do see them talking to their friends and they always speak to me. Their teacher says they don’t want to participate in group discussions, but are doing very well. Speech therapy services were not part of any of the kid’s services. Our most recent pre-K didn’t qualify for an IFSP (pre-K IEP) and I don’t think the other kids had an IEP either. It is definitely more of a psychological disorder then something speech therapy can help. All the kids I know had private therapy. The main thing I would say is that EVERYONE who works with the child needs to be aware of the situation. It is helpful to teach them the sign for bathroom so they can communicate with their teacher. As far as I can tell the best thing the teacher can do is be aware, be patient, be understanding and obviously never call the child out in group discussions. I spoke very quietly to the children myself, I don’t know if that helped or not, but I will say that the kids would choose to come to me first if they needed something. I would also repeat what they did say to me. Most communication happened in small group time as well. You have to give the kids space to talk, teachers are busy and often have other kids clamoring for attention, but you have to give the kids a few beats to allow them the chance to talk if they want to. I would reassure the parents that their child can be very successful in school both academically and socially even if they remain selectively mute. I know you are not supposed to let the child rely on non verbal communication, but honestly I think the more comfortable the child is the more likely they are to talk. I hope that helps.
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Post by malibou on Jun 5, 2022 1:46:02 GMT
I'm a speech therapist and selective mutism considered outside our scope of practice. It is more appropriate for a counselor and psychologist. Thank you for weighing in. I'm the one that made that comment. My son didn't talk until almost 4, so it's not the same as this. It was his speech therapists that got us thru it, and concluded correctly that he merely didn't have anything to say yet. They just worked with him weekly for 2.5 years encouraging him to talk - they got him up to 15 words at 3.5 years old - and showing him how to form his mouth and lips etc to speak correctly when he did decide to talk.
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Post by pinkgreen on Jun 5, 2022 2:44:58 GMT
I’ve had several in Pre-K. All had different degrees of selective mutism. All three loved school. One grandma would tell me that her dgd would rattle off her whole day as soon as she got home.
What worked for me: Always include them as if they are speaking. They can still participate in “discussions” if they are given non-verbal options for response. When asking direct questions I would use phrasing that gave the option for a verbal or non-verbal response. Occasionally I did get verbal responses. If the child did use words, I never drew attention too it or pushed too hard.
All three of them eventually did begin speaking at school in later grades. I was at a school where I would continue to see them in the hallways/on the playground, etc as they progressed through the grades. At that point I got to have some great conversations!
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Post by grammadee on Jun 5, 2022 2:54:31 GMT
So this child talks to them at home, but talks to NO ONE at school? Or do they just not respond verbally to the teachers or take part in class discussions? Do they play with other kids on the playground?
My best friend growing up had a younger sister who didn't talk at all until she was about 6 years old, and then only to family and friends she knew well. But she heard and understood well. When she started speaking it was in full logical sentences and the words were easily understood. I don't think she spoke in school until she was ten or twelve. Passed all her exams. And lived a normal life. Went on, actually, to have a singing career.
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Post by kels99 on Jun 5, 2022 3:18:33 GMT
Our daughter had it as a child. She didn't speak at school until maybe 3rd/4th grade, and then only in a whisper to a few select friends for many years. She would chatter in the car until we turned into the parking lot of the school and then nothing until we left the parking lot at the end of the day.
She had amazing teachers, all were very accommodating and also very different. One was very strict and another was the opposite. Most were somewhere in the middle.
It was stressful for sure, but she turned out great (if I do say so myself). In high school she spoke in front of several hundred people for a girls scout thing, she led songs at girl scout camp, she won lots of academic awards and is now in grad school working on her doctorate in physics!
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,003
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Jun 5, 2022 4:06:35 GMT
My nephew had it beginning in kindergarten. Unfortunately, my sister and brother-in-law didn’t think it was a problem (“Why should he have to talk to anyone if he doesn’t want to?”) and didn’t pursue any treatment. He was a chatterbox with all of us at family parties, but wouldn’t say a word at school or church.
They moved back to our hometown when he was in the middle of 5th grade. He spoke from day 1 at his new school, and it was never an issue again. 🤷🏼♀️
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Post by arielsmom on Jun 5, 2022 5:09:15 GMT
Our nephew has it, he's about 30 now, still very quiet but will take part in a conversation, maybe 2-3 word replies.
His parents had him in therapy and used medication when he was young.
He has always had some quirks, still does, but recently became engaged. They will go to the courthouse to get married. He has a job as a ski lift operator in winter and ground maintenance at a golf course in the summer.
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Post by mikklynn on Jun 5, 2022 12:54:10 GMT
My granddaughter had it. She is 18 and just graduated from high school. It took years of therapy and medication to overcome it.
She would only speak to her parents and us. She didn't see her other grandparents often, so was unable to speak to them.
It's very important to understand it is not a willful behavior. Children with selective mutism are unable to speak in public.
She was officially diagnosed just before kindergarten. In hindsight it started as early as age 1. She would babble away in the car with me, but be completely silent in a store.
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Post by playingcinderella on Jun 5, 2022 13:12:41 GMT
When I taught middle school, I had a student with selective mutism. Unfortunately both the school and parents were very ill-informed. They put the child in my theatre class for their elective hoping I could cure/force/convince the child to talk. They very specifically did not want me to modify any assignments to remove the performance/speaking component. It didn't work and I'm afraid did more damage.
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Post by Merge on Jun 5, 2022 13:22:43 GMT
When I taught middle school, I had a student with selective mutism. Unfortunately both the school and parents were very ill-informed. They put the child in my theatre class for their elective hoping I could cure/force/convince the child to talk. They very specifically did not want me to modify any assignments to remove the performance/speaking component. It didn't work and I'm afraid did more damage. My god that is awful. I’m so sorry for you and that child.
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Post by elaine on Jun 5, 2022 14:12:07 GMT
I do know that counseling is recommended. Yes. And they have tried to find one. One had an opening...in October. Others "might" start taking patients after Christmas. It's really awful. . The woman who's doing the evaluation is a psychologist who had some connection to the daycare, and she offered to at least do that much. But she can't take him on as a patient. The parents are going to start a wider search. Since he is older than three, Child Find will evaluate him for special education in your district. (The agency is called Child Find for FCPS, it may be slightly different for your school district). It will take probably 3 months through the school system, so it will be pushing it to have it done in time for school, but she should call and start the process tomorrow. The school system should run a full battery of diagnostics and he should be given an IEP. That will help determine the classroom he is in. Thus will all be free of charge. Please have her call first thing tomorrow morning - like by 9 am - because there is an official timeline for this process that will be started as soon as she calls and refers her child into the system. Some teachers are better with and given more kids with IEPs. He will also need the extra support at school of a classroom that may have an extra IA to support the kids with IEPs. An IEP will get him the emotional supports, in addition to whatever else he needs to “access the general Ed curriculum” (yes, that wording is very specific to the VA process). If he doesn’t talk at school and shuts down easily, he will have difficulty accessing the curriculum without SPED supports.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,613
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jun 5, 2022 14:37:17 GMT
My dd#2 had a friend with selective mutism in elementary school. She was involved in lots of therapies - and she's a happy, healthy, high functioning person now.
I'll tell you, the day she was at my house and chose to speak to me? I felt like I won the lottery.
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Post by mikklynn on Jun 5, 2022 17:23:22 GMT
My dd#2 had a friend with selective mutism in elementary school. She was involved in lots of therapies - and she's a happy, healthy, high functioning person now. I'll tell you, the day she was at my house and chose to speak to me? I felt like I won the lottery. You did! She must have had a great deal of trust in you.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,613
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jun 5, 2022 17:35:43 GMT
My dd#2 had a friend with selective mutism in elementary school. She was involved in lots of therapies - and she's a happy, healthy, high functioning person now. I'll tell you, the day she was at my house and chose to speak to me? I felt like I won the lottery. You did! She must have had a great deal of trust in you. I was friends with her mother and she spent a lot of time at my house. And I just respected who she was - e.g. I allowed her to point at things she wanted etc... I didn't push her and I didn't make a big deal out of it (just like her mom - who was a rock star with it) and that seemed to do the trick with her. She didn't talk to me a lot, but I did feel like one of the chosen few when she did.
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Post by stingfan on Jun 5, 2022 19:05:21 GMT
My 12yo dd has a friend who has selective mutism. They've been friends since pre-K. The friend still doesn't speak at school. In elementary school, she would whisper to some teachers, but that was it.
She speaks to my dd in her own home and at my house when they're in dd's room with the door shut. When she's outside her room, she won't talk. She's never spoken to me and doesn't make eye contact with me either. I just talk to her like normal. I ask a lot of questions (like what kind of snack she wants, etc) and she'll nod/shake her head until I come to the right answer.
For the longest time, her mom said that she was just like that herself and said she wasn't worried about it. They kept saying she'd grow out of it. Now that she's in middle school, they've finally started her in therapy. I don't know if she's taking any medication for it. I've only learned about the therapy from my dd.
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 5, 2022 22:11:38 GMT
I've known one child with selective mutism. I think what helps is the parents being huge advocates for their child. A 529 plan may be possible if he gets a diagnosis. Pushing the child to speak usually backfires. At least for the one I knew.
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