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Post by morecowbell on Feb 27, 2023 4:43:41 GMT
No, most people don't want to kill drag queens. What people object to is young children watching nude dancers and simulated sex acts. That isn't for children and there's no reason to fight in favor of that or give the impression that you are. The drag queens that WANT to perform that way for children don't help the cause. They contribute to the objection.
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Post by Merge on Feb 27, 2023 13:27:41 GMT
No, most people don't want to kill drag queens. What people object to is young children watching nude dancers and simulated sex acts. That isn't for children and there's no reason to fight in favor of that or give the impression that you are. The drag queens that WANT to perform that way for children don't help the cause. They contribute to the objection. Did you read the article? The part about how your people are targeting drag shows that are not remotely advertised for children but claiming they are (LYING)? The part about how they’re standing outside child friendly events with guns and saying they want to kill everyone? And then of course the fact that people who align with your beliefs have actually taken rifles into gay clubs and proceeded to kill dozens of people? Trust the right to turn a straw man argument into a reason to kill actual people, and then have dupes like you saying that’s not what they really want. You’re helping to spread their lies and innocent people die as a result. You’re disgusting and an example of everything wrong with the GOP. Maybe Saudi Arabia or Russia would suit you better. (ETA: the point of this thread seems to have been completely lost on you, BTW. Megan is making the very accurate point that abuse actually happens on the regular in churches, often propped up and covered up by religious beliefs that teach blind obedience to "male headship," but you don't see the right campaigning to make VBS illegal and standing outside church services with guns. Why the very selective outrage? I think we all know.)
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Post by melanell on Feb 27, 2023 15:48:04 GMT
OK, thank you. So the right-wing Daily Mail copies a story from Libs of Tik-Tok. Does not include the supposed video (at least, I couldn’t find it). Does include a fuzzy photo of the child tipping the performer, with no “boobies” showing that I can see. Does include another photo of the performer with the “boobies” showing. Goes on to complain about drag queen story hours at other venues. (1) the reason I put “boobies” in quotation marks is because it’s not boobies. It’s part of a costume, and, according to the story, the “nipples” were covered. The performer was NOT topless. (2) the child appears to be very young and appears to be sitting on her grandma’s lap. Apparently the grandma is happy to have her there, since she is tipping the performer via the child. (3) the grandma knew or should have known she was taking the child to a drag show at a gay bar. It appears NOT to have been advertised as “family friendly.” Instead, the DM says the other shows listed on the bar’s social media ARE labeled 18+. This one was not. That sounds more as though the usual warning was inadvertently left off, rather than the bar was trying to pass this one show off as family friendly. So what exactly is your complaint here? This show wasn’t advertised as family friendly, the family took the child willingly to the show, the performer wasn’t actually topless, despite your claim otherwise, and apparently no one was traumatized. This is not any kind of a threat to the child, and it’s certainly not the norm for family-friendly drag shows. There isn’t even any damn video for me to look at. Since I haven't told you yet in February, I love you Lucy. LOL---I read Lucy's post, and my very first thought was "I just love Lucy." My next thought was to post that very thing. And then I saw you took care of that for me already. So I'll just say "Thank You, lucyg!" instead.
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Post by refugeepea on Feb 27, 2023 17:43:14 GMT
The child appears to be a toddler and I doubt she’s been taught about “modesty” as of yet. The grandmother doesn’t appear the least bit flustered about the situation. I think your complaint should be with the child’s family, not with the performance. And no matter how many times you insist the performer was topless, she was not. I hear modesty and it immediately produces a visceral, sick feeling in my stomach. What was the woman wearing for a man to grope her, rape her, make cat calls..... (ETA: the point of this thread seems to have been completely lost on you, BTW. Megan is making the very accurate point that abuse actually happens on the regular in churches, often propped up and covered up by religious beliefs that teach blind obedience to "male headship," but you don't see the right campaigning to make VBS illegal and standing outside church services with guns. Why the very selective outrage? I think we all know.) Yes and it's very hard to overcome.
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Post by LiLi on Feb 27, 2023 17:51:42 GMT
No, most people don't want to kill drag queens. What people object to is young children watching nude dancers and simulated sex acts. That isn't for children and there's no reason to fight in favor of that or give the impression that you are. The drag queens that WANT to perform that way for children don't help the cause. They contribute to the objection. It isn't like these kids wandered in on their own. Their PARENTS brought them. Don't bring your kids somewhere you don't want them. No one is forcing this on you. Children don't belong in ANY strip tease shows. Has nothing to do specifically with drag IMO.
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Post by Mel on Feb 27, 2023 22:15:35 GMT
No, most people don't want to kill drag queens. What people object to is young children watching nude dancers and simulated sex acts. That isn't for children and there's no reason to fight in favor of that or give the impression that you are. The drag queens that WANT to perform that way for children don't help the cause. They contribute to the objection. It isn't like these kids wandered in on their own. Their PARENTS brought them. Don't bring your kids somewhere you don't want them. No one is forcing this on you. Children don't belong in ANY strip tease shows. Has nothing to do specifically with drag IMO. This is exactly how I think/feel!! A child doesn't just end up at a drag show. They are taken there by parents/adults. "public" is a really HUGE place. This would mean that there could be no "Pride" parades, or Pride in the Park, or other such events. It would mean that people all over the country are being discriminated against once again because of how they dress. WHY can't we just all get along!?
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Post by refugeepea on Feb 28, 2023 4:10:12 GMT
The same people who don't want their kids getting "the jab" have zero issues interfering with transgender children transitioning and the scary drag shows. Let's ignore that less than one percent of the U.S. population IS transgender. Let's also ignore the children mutilated by assault weapons.
But ma' guns!!!
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cakediva
Drama Llama
Making the world a sweeter place one cake at a time!
Posts: 7,406
Location: Fergus, Ontario
Jun 26, 2014 11:53:40 GMT
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Post by cakediva on Mar 5, 2023 23:48:56 GMT
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 1, 2023 5:57:32 GMT
I don't do that. But, vice versa. When you're concerned about child beauty pageants but demonize anyone who objects to young children watching nude dancers and simulated sex acts.
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Post by monklady123 on Apr 1, 2023 10:09:18 GMT
I don't do that. But, vice versa. When you're concerned about child beauty pageants but demonize anyone who objects to young children watching nude dancers and simulated sex acts. I haven't even read through this entire thread yet so keep that mind.... but, I'm wondering how a young child actually is in a position to watch nude dancers and simulated sex acts? I mean, presumably these activities are inside a club or a show or something...? So how did the young children get in there in the first place? Clearly an adult had to bring them. Somehow I doubt that this type of entertainment is being provided for an assembly in schools (where presumably the kids wouldn't have a choice of attending)... But of course I don't know. I'll be sure to ask the principal of the school where I sub if she plans any nude dancers for the next assembly.
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Post by Merge on Apr 1, 2023 21:23:18 GMT
I’ve read about three pastors/church leaders charged with or convicted of sexual abuse of minors just this week alone. Haven’t read about a single drag queen, though.
Regardless, what Megan and Machaela are trying to do in NE has nothing to do with drag shows. It has to do with the massive barrage of bills in red states designed to prevent some citizens from living as their true selves, making their own medical choices, and/or doing what is best for their own kids.
The supposed party of small government has hugely overstepped with these bills, which are based solely on their hatred of the LGBTQ community.
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dawnnikol
Prolific Pea
'A life without books is a life not lived.' Jay Kristoff
Posts: 7,857
Sept 21, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
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Post by dawnnikol on Apr 1, 2023 23:43:11 GMT
I’ve read about three pastors/church leaders charged with or convicted of sexual abuse of minors just this week alone. Haven’t read about a single drag queen, though.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 6, 2023 15:41:40 GMT
I don't do that. But, vice versa. When you're concerned about child beauty pageants but demonize anyone who objects to young children watching nude dancers and simulated sex acts. I haven't even read through this entire thread yet so keep that mind.... but, I'm wondering how a young child actually is in a position to watch nude dancers and simulated sex acts? I mean, presumably these activities are inside a club or a show or something...? So how did the young children get in there in the first place? Clearly an adult had to bring them. Somehow I doubt that this type of entertainment is being provided for an assembly in schools (where presumably the kids wouldn't have a choice of attending)... But of course I don't know. I'll be sure to ask the principal of the school where I sub if she plans any nude dancers for the next assembly. Are you seriously alleging that since it didn't happen in an assembly and you couldn't be bothered looking at the linked evidence provided HERE, that inviting and bringing children to watch nude dancing and simulated sex acts is worth dismissing and mocking anyone who objects to inviting children to that?
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Post by Merge on Apr 6, 2023 16:24:08 GMT
I haven't even read through this entire thread yet so keep that mind.... but, I'm wondering how a young child actually is in a position to watch nude dancers and simulated sex acts? I mean, presumably these activities are inside a club or a show or something...? So how did the young children get in there in the first place? Clearly an adult had to bring them. Somehow I doubt that this type of entertainment is being provided for an assembly in schools (where presumably the kids wouldn't have a choice of attending)... But of course I don't know. I'll be sure to ask the principal of the school where I sub if she plans any nude dancers for the next assembly. Are you seriously alleging that since it didn't happen in an assembly and you couldn't be bothered looking at the linked evidence provided HERE, that inviting and bringing children to watch nude dancing and simulated sex acts is worth dismissing and mocking anyone who objects to inviting children to that? She's correctly pointing out that no children were attending any such show unless an adult brought them to it. Drag performers are not infiltrating places were children might be a captive audience without their parents. I'm still curious why these laws are targeting this one type of sexual performance, place, or event, and not all the others - R-rated and even some PG-13 movies, "breastaurants," children's pageants, Renaissance faires in some cases - to which parents routinely bring their children. Perhaps you can clear that up.
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Post by bluebird71 on Apr 6, 2023 16:28:35 GMT
Are you seriously alleging that since it didn't happen in an assembly and you couldn't be bothered looking at the linked evidence provided HERE, that inviting and bringing children to watch nude dancing and simulated sex acts is worth dismissing and mocking anyone who objects to inviting children to that? Drag queens and burlesque dancers and similar performers are not going out and finding child-friendly locations to do such things. This is on parents, to decide to take their kids to shows and venues that are designated for ADULTS. I don't have kids and I don't need parents bringing their young kids to rated R movies and yet... they do. That is to be addressed as questionable PARENTING decisions. As a fully functioning adult, I am happy to have children excluded from adults-only entertainment venues.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 6, 2023 19:58:34 GMT
Are you seriously alleging that since it didn't happen in an assembly and you couldn't be bothered looking at the linked evidence provided HERE, that inviting and bringing children to watch nude dancing and simulated sex acts is worth dismissing and mocking anyone who objects to inviting children to that? She's correctly pointing out that no children were attending any such show unless an adult brought them to it. Drag performers are not infiltrating places were children might be a captive audience without their parents. I'm still curious why these laws are targeting this one type of sexual performance, place, or event, and not all the others - R-rated and even some PG-13 movies, "breastaurants," children's pageants, Renaissance faires in some cases - to which parents routinely bring their children. Perhaps you can clear that up. Some adult content drag performers are inviting "all ages". What kind of person even wants to perform nude and simulated sex acts for children? That's the difference I and many others see. Cleavage is a lot different than that and you don't need a special restaurant to see that.
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Post by Merge on Apr 6, 2023 21:25:51 GMT
She's correctly pointing out that no children were attending any such show unless an adult brought them to it. Drag performers are not infiltrating places were children might be a captive audience without their parents. I'm still curious why these laws are targeting this one type of sexual performance, place, or event, and not all the others - R-rated and even some PG-13 movies, "breastaurants," children's pageants, Renaissance faires in some cases - to which parents routinely bring their children. Perhaps you can clear that up. Some adult content drag performers are inviting "all ages". What kind of person even wants to perform nude and simulated sex acts for children? That's the difference I and many others see. Cleavage is a lot different than that and you don't need a special restaurant to see that. Inviting is not forcing anyone to bring their kids in. And R-rated movies often contain nudity and fairly graphic scenes or dialogue. Kids 17 and under are welcome - invited, even - with a parent. Similarly graphic material is widely available on television. Restaurants like Hooters don’t just have women showing cleavage. Customers, including families, are invited to participate in the objectification of women serving food in very scanty clothing. These women get right up close to the customers and may display themselves provocatively for larger tips from dad. If you believe there’s nothing titillating about it, you should ask a 13 year old boy what he thinks about it. (Check out the shorts at Hooters these days: nypost.com/2021/10/15/hooters-under-fire-over-new-crotch-string-uniform-shorts/amp/)Child pageants invite little girls to sexualize themselves in front of adults with adult hair, makeup, and clothing for prizes. Renaissance Faires bill themselves as family entertainment, but many of the performers are dressed and behave as provocatively as any drag performer. Professional sports cheerleaders are often dressed very provocatively and perform sexual movements at events widely marketed to families. Heck, competitive child cheerleading dresses young girls in scanty clothing and also has them performing moves that appear sexual for an audience of adults. The distinction between a drag show and these events in terms of sexualizing children and exposing them to sexual content is one without difference, so again I ask you, why the drag shows and not these other things? With the other instances I name, our collective response is generally that if you don’t like these things, you should not participate in them with your children. Why is it only drag shows where you feel the need to shut them down?
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Gennifer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,991
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 6, 2023 22:48:07 GMT
The distinction between a drag show and these events in terms of sexualizing children and exposing them to sexual content is one without difference, so again I ask you, why the drag shows and not these other things? With the other instances I name, our collective response is generally that if you don’t like these things, you should not participate in them with your children. Why is it only drag shows where you feel the need to shut them down? You’re being entirely too logical.
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Post by Merge on Apr 6, 2023 23:04:07 GMT
The distinction between a drag show and these events in terms of sexualizing children and exposing them to sexual content is one without difference, so again I ask you, why the drag shows and not these other things? With the other instances I name, our collective response is generally that if you don’t like these things, you should not participate in them with your children. Why is it only drag shows where you feel the need to shut them down? You’re being entirely too logical. I’d just like her to have the courage to tell the truth: they’re targeting drag shows because they don’t like the LGBTQ community and want them back in the closet as a permanent underclass. Any logical person can see that. Plenty of Republicans aren’t afraid to come out and say it, so I feel like our resident GOP apologist should go ahead and admit it, too. I’d honestly respect her more if she did.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 7, 2023 2:36:30 GMT
Some adult content drag performers are inviting "all ages". What kind of person even wants to perform nude and simulated sex acts for children? That's the difference I and many others see. Cleavage is a lot different than that and you don't need a special restaurant to see that. Inviting is not forcing anyone to bring their kids in. And R-rated movies often contain nudity and fairly graphic scenes or dialogue. Kids 17 and under are welcome - invited, even - with a parent. Similarly graphic material is widely available on television. Restaurants like Hooters don’t just have women showing cleavage. Customers, including families, are invited to participate in the objectification of women serving food in very scanty clothing. These women get right up close to the customers and may display themselves provocatively for larger tips from dad. If you believe there’s nothing titillating about it, you should ask a 13 year old boy what he thinks about it. (Check out the shorts at Hooters these days: nypost.com/2021/10/15/hooters-under-fire-over-new-crotch-string-uniform-shorts/amp/)Child pageants invite little girls to sexualize themselves in front of adults with adult hair, makeup, and clothing for prizes. Renaissance Faires bill themselves as family entertainment, but many of the performers are dressed and behave as provocatively as any drag performer. Professional sports cheerleaders are often dressed very provocatively and perform sexual movements at events widely marketed to families. Heck, competitive child cheerleading dresses young girls in scanty clothing and also has them performing moves that appear sexual for an audience of adults. The distinction between a drag show and these events in terms of sexualizing children and exposing them to sexual content is one without difference, so again I ask you, why the drag shows and not these other things? With the other instances I name, our collective response is generally that if you don’t like these things, you should not participate in them with your children. Why is it only drag shows where you feel the need to shut them down? There is a difference. The difference is, no one is nude and/or performing simulated sex acts at any of the places you mentioned.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 7, 2023 3:39:13 GMT
You’re being entirely too logical. I’d just like her to have the courage to tell the truth: they’re targeting drag shows because they don’t like the LGBTQ community and want them back in the closet as a permanent underclass. Any logical person can see that. Plenty of Republicans aren’t afraid to come out and say it, so I feel like our resident GOP apologist should go ahead and admit it, too. I’d honestly respect her more if she did. And you're on the wrong track here. I don't want drag queens or the LGBTQ to go "back in the closet". As I've said, I love a good drag show and I have nothing against anyone being LGBTQ. You got that wrong. Again.
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Gennifer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,991
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 7, 2023 5:08:58 GMT
There is a difference. The difference is, no one is nude and/or performing simulated sex acts at any of the places you mentioned. Girl, when’s the last time you watched a movie or tv show? Nudity and simulated (and real) sex acts are SUPER prevalent. 🧐
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 7, 2023 6:43:38 GMT
There is a difference. The difference is, no one is nude and/or performing simulated sex acts at any of the places you mentioned. Girl, when’s the last time you watched a movie or tv show? Nudity and simulated (and real) sex acts are SUPER prevalent. 🧐 Yes, they are. Still doesn't make it okay to offer nude performances and simulated sex acts to children. Or to bring your child to watch that. And still, none of these places mentioned in rebuttal, are dancing nude and simulating sex acts: Restaurants Child pageants Renaissance Faires Professional sports cheerleaders competitive child cheerleading child pageants
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,975
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Apr 7, 2023 12:26:53 GMT
The child appears to be a toddler and I doubt she’s been taught about “modesty” as of yet. The grandmother doesn’t appear the least bit flustered about the situation. I think your complaint should be with the child’s family, not with the performance. And no matter how many times you insist the performer was topless, she was not. I hear modesty and it immediately produces a visceral, sick feeling in my stomach. What was the woman wearing for a man to grope her, rape her, make cat calls..... (ETA: the point of this thread seems to have been completely lost on you, BTW. Megan is making the very accurate point that abuse actually happens on the regular in churches, often propped up and covered up by religious beliefs that teach blind obedience to "male headship," but you don't see the right campaigning to make VBS illegal and standing outside church services with guns. Why the very selective outrage? I think we all know.) Yes and it's very hard to overcome. 100% it is almost impossible to overcome. It’s one reason that it is so difficult to change the culture in some states with large evangelical populations—the kids are following what they are taught and will vote the same as their parents. It’s also why you have so many Republican women willing to vote against their own best interests.
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Post by Merge on Apr 7, 2023 13:07:14 GMT
Girl, when’s the last time you watched a movie or tv show? Nudity and simulated (and real) sex acts are SUPER prevalent. 🧐 Yes, they are. Still doesn't make it okay to offer nude performances and simulated sex acts to children. Or to bring your child to watch that. And still, none of these places mentioned in rebuttal, are dancing nude and simulating sex acts: Restaurants Child pageants Renaissance Faires Professional sports cheerleaders competitive child cheerleading child pageants How do drag performers dance nude? If they are biological men dressed as women, being nude would destroy the illusion, wouldn’t it. I call BS on that. You admit that nudity and simulated/real sex acts are even more prevalent in movies, but the laws you support don’t do anything to prevent children from seeing those shows. I don’t believe I am wrong about your hatred of gay people, but perhaps in this case it’s really just a hatred of anyone you feel is “leftist.” Or perhaps an inherent bias that you have not yet recognized. You hold an inconsistent position between drag shows and other forms of sexualized entertainment where only the drag shows are wrong and must be shut down. What other conclusion would a reasonable person draw? (IMO the child pageants and cheerleading are even more problematic as they require underage girls to dress up and display themselves in a sexualized way for the pleasure of adults, but again, no legislation about those. Inconsistent. ETA: an example youtu.be/4PGB8x46P-A)The worst part to me is that this inconsistency has led to a narrative on the right that gay/trans people are evil for performing in a way that many cishet people also perform or ask children to perform. That makes LGBTQ a target for the next crazy person with a gun. If you want to question the good sense of parents who take their kids to these shows, I’m with you. I wouldn’t do it. But I also didn’t take my young children to R-rated movies or allow them to participate in pageants or sexualized cheerleading. I was the mean mom who said no to a lot of overly sexual clothes for young girls at stores like Justice. That’s a consistent position for me that doesn’t target or demonize any one demographic.
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Post by Merge on Apr 7, 2023 13:34:07 GMT
And back to the point of my thread here and the actions of the legislators in Nebraska: there’s an organization on almost every corner that targets children for indoctrination and potential abuse (whether emotional or physical) through child-friendly events like VBS and Sunday School. These organizations often allow unvetted adults total access to kids and, sadly, some of these adults end up sexualizing and abusing children. Not only do we not shut these organizations down, we give them benefits like not paying taxes, and in some states, we’re trying to give them pots of other people’s tax money to work with even more children.
The legislators who want to ban drag shows seem to have no concern about the actual abuse that goes on at neighborhood churches who have youth ministries and children’s events. That’s a blatantly inconsistent position that points to those legislators’ hatred of the LGBTQ community as the real source of their problem with drag shows.
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Post by Merge on Apr 7, 2023 14:34:18 GMT
Sorry, one more: it’s appalling how easily kids can access sexual content on Netflix and other streaming services if their parents don’t avail themselves of parental controls. A show like Bridgerton appears to feature pretty people dressed up like princes and princesses to a young girl’s view. The splash screens and marketing materials are very attractive to young girls. But we all know about the graphic content therein.
I know for a fact that many of my students saw Deadpool in the theaters when it came out, or have streamed it since. Is this family friendly entertainment? It’s now available to stream on Disney plus, a brand long associated with child-friendly entertainment.
IMO it’s not up to the government to censor these shows, but rather up to parents to make good choices and avail themselves of parental controls. And that has generally been legislators’ view as well - except when it comes to anything that could be loosely categorized as drag. Why is that?
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Post by Merge on Apr 7, 2023 14:43:06 GMT
And then you've got ultra-MAGA Kid Rock shooting up cases of Bud Light though they did nothing sexual at all. They just chose a trans spokesperson. It's not difficult to see that the GOP's problem isn't with overtly sexual behavior where kids can see it. It's simply with the fact that LGBTQ+ people exist and are visible in society - and supporters like this send a message that it's cool to shoot them.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 7, 2023 14:53:12 GMT
Sorry, one more: it’s appalling how easily kids can access sexual content on Netflix and other streaming services if their parents don’t avail themselves of parental controls. A show like Bridgerton appears to feature pretty people dressed up like princes and princesses to a young girl’s view. The splash screens and marketing materials are very attractive to young girls. But we all know about the graphic content therein. I know for a fact that many of my students saw Deadpool in the theaters when it came out, or have streamed it since. Is this family friendly entertainment? It’s now available to stream on Disney plus, a brand long associated with child-friendly entertainment. IMO it’s not up to the government to censor these shows, but rather up to parents to make good choices and avail themselves of parental controls. And that has generally been legislators’ view as well - except when it comes to anything that could be loosely categorized as drag. Why is that? Yep. And they used to be the Party of small government. Now they are the party of “Everyone must agree with me!” I mean, look at that little doofus in Florida going after Disney because it dared to disagree with him. “Drag shows must be forbidden! But guns, well, what can we do?” I am sick of it.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,541
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Apr 7, 2023 15:05:35 GMT
IMO it’s not up to the government to censor these shows, but rather up to parents to make good choices and avail themselves of parental controls. And that has generally been legislators’ view as well - except when it comes to anything that could be loosely categorized as drag. Why is that? I agree! If a child is at a drag show, it's the parent's fault. 100%. My kids are all adults now, but I used to just cringe inside when I went to R rated movies and saw people there with young children. Watching close up sex and violence scenes. Why is this okay??? I went to a drag show for the first time back in the fall at a popular gay bar in Denver. No children were there, there was a sign at the entrance that said you had to be 21. Was it raunchy? Yes. Was there nudity? No. Not even close. In fact, most of the drag queens that day were more covered than little girls competitive cheer squads I see. It was honestly the most fun I've had in a long time. But to me, the jokes were no different than a raunchy comedy show, and I wouldn't take children to those, either. I know someone whose little girl does competitive cheer. She recently posted some videos and pics of her adorable daughter, and I was appalled. Skin tight skimply little outfit. More make up on than I have ever worn in my life. Very suggestive dances. And the little girl is FOUR. Why is this okay? I'm so sick of hearing about the horrors of drag shows and how they are pedophiles and groomers and whatever else. Especially when it has been shown time and time and time again the huge numbers of children who are sexually abused and exploited by leaders in churches. It's disgusting. I don't hear anyone calling for a ban on taking children to church, though.
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