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Post by MichyM on Oct 5, 2023 17:00:17 GMT
I have to say, this thread is enlightening. I think there are many here who are proving this woman’s thoughts to be entirely correct.
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Post by Merge on Oct 5, 2023 17:03:17 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... My young adult daughter with her first professional job is just able to afford a one-bedroom apartment in a sketchy part of town, with substandard management, and she drives our old 2015 Kia because she certainly couldn't afford a car payment of any kind right now. Because she is classified as a paid intern for now, she is paid hourly and has no health benefits of her own. Would you like to tell her her expectations are too high?
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Post by agengr2004 on Oct 5, 2023 17:04:30 GMT
I'm a Gen X'er parent with a Gen Z and a Gen Alpha. We're prepared for the real possibility that our children will live at home for a good long while.
ETA: We'll also probably have to contribute to parents care at some point to, so yay us.
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Anita
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,646
Location: Kansas City -ish
Jun 27, 2014 2:38:58 GMT
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Post by Anita on Oct 5, 2023 17:06:55 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... Have you priced these so called "starter homes" lately? Because there really isn't such a thing in most markets these days. And where the starter homes with realistic prices are...there are no jobs. Young people can't even afford RENT these days, much less starter homes. Oh, and that's here in Kansas. Have you seen the bigger cities? It's seriously insane.
Our youngest is about to finish college and has already said she doesn't envision being able to leave home anytime soon, if ever. And she seems fine with outliving us and just inheriting this house...if she can even afford the taxes on it by the time she inherits it!
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Post by myshelly on Oct 5, 2023 17:07:09 GMT
I don't know how I feel about this story. I realize she's pointing out her generation has it tougher economically, but can't you just be grateful? I'd be angry if I were her parents.
story “Can’t you just be grateful” Spoken like a true boomer
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Post by sideways on Oct 5, 2023 17:08:17 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... Ok…I’ll play. We bought our first house in 1994 for $86,900. Using an inflation calculator, that’s equal to $179,788.14 today. The estimated value for that same house today? $234,300. The equivalent of that amount in 1994 would have been $113,095. We would not have been able to afford to buy our house at that price then. I was making $18.74/hr at my job in 1994. (I don’t know why I remember that exactly, but I do.) It was my second year there. I also put that in the inflation calculator. The equivalent in todays dollars is $38.82. I saw a job posting recently for my same job at the same place. The starting rate? $12.50. That would have been like me being paid $6.03 in 1994 for the exact same job. So, miss me with your out-of-touch bullshit. No wonder Gen Z hates boomers.
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Post by agengr2004 on Oct 5, 2023 17:10:39 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... If your only point of reference is whatever nonsense HGTV spouts, then I can see how you would think that. Homes here are going for $200K for less than 1,000 square feet in not great parts of town. For my child that wants to go into public service (Firefighter/EMT) even that would cost half of her starting salary.
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crm1367
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Jun 21, 2017 16:54:48 GMT
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Post by crm1367 on Oct 5, 2023 17:11:01 GMT
My young adult daughter with her first professional job is just able to afford a one-bedroom apartment in a sketchy part of town, with substandard management, and she drives our old 2015 Kia because she certainly couldn't afford a car payment of any kind right now. Because she is classified as a paid intern for now, she is paid hourly and has no health benefits of her own. Would you like to tell her her expectations are too high? Would she consider getting a roommate? When I was fresh out of college I couldn't afford a one bedroom apartment either so I had two roommates for about 3-4 years. I then went down to one roommate for another 3-4 years and then just myself lol. It's sort of a catch 22 because do you want to live at home to save money or live on your own and struggle so having a roommate could be another option possibly?
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Post by sideways on Oct 5, 2023 17:11:29 GMT
Holy crap. That is insane. What’s worse is that there are probably enough people that take them up on it (I don’t fault them. They’re probably desperate for any work with the promise of something.), so it will only encourage the company to continue to do this. Side point: this has been true for educators for decades. A semester of unpaid labor (i.e., student teaching - you actually pay tuition for class credits for the privilege) and the school/district may hire you for a full time position in which you'll still be expected to a lot of unpaid labor. It's not OK in any sector of the workforce. Yup. I have a degree in teaching, though I didn’t end up in the classroom. I had two semesters of student teaching. One part-time, the other full-time.
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Post by ~summer~ on Oct 5, 2023 17:12:05 GMT
I agree that the idea of $1500 helping with a down payment is just completely out of touch with reality.
I’ll say that my parents, who are boomers are not like that at all. They seem completely aware of how expensive everything is - and are also amazed that young people can afford anything….
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Post by Merge on Oct 5, 2023 17:13:37 GMT
My young adult daughter with her first professional job is just able to afford a one-bedroom apartment in a sketchy part of town, with substandard management, and she drives our old 2015 Kia because she certainly couldn't afford a car payment of any kind right now. Because she is classified as a paid intern for now, she is paid hourly and has no health benefits of her own. Would you like to tell her her expectations are too high? Would she consider getting a roommate? When I was fresh out of college I couldn't afford a one bedroom apartment either so I had two roommates for about 3-4 years. I then went down to one roommate for another 3-4 years and then just myself lol. It's sort of a catch 22 because do you want to live at home to save money or live on your own and struggle so having a roommate could be another option possibly? We've discussed it. Her personality is such that she would rather struggle to live alone than cohabitate with a stranger.
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 5, 2023 17:17:52 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... I don’t think that this is fair. Not all Gen Z young adults have these expectations, any more than all boomers are clueless advice machines. I work with some young adults who have significant college loans. They have to also pay rent, which has gone up a lot even here in the rust belt. The price of cars is nuts too. Generalizing about groups pits them against each other, which achieves nothing. I’ll be honest; I would not want to be starting out in the job market now. In my field, expectations have gone way up, but the salary, not so much.
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crm1367
Junior Member
Posts: 81
Jun 21, 2017 16:54:48 GMT
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Post by crm1367 on Oct 5, 2023 17:18:57 GMT
We've discussed it. Her personality is such that she would rather struggle to live alone than cohabitate with a stranger. It's so disheartening because these young adults are doing all the 'right' things that we've been taught and then this is the reality they are hit with once they get out of college and try to make it on their own. They worked so hard for what? It's a shame!
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Post by MichyM on Oct 5, 2023 17:19:11 GMT
My son is 33. He has worked nonstop since he was 15.5, including while he went to a prestigious university while graduating with highest honors. He went directly from college to working full time. At 33 (he and his partner of 6 years recently split up) he now shares a 3 bedroom apt with two other people. Now granted, he lives in NYC, but still.
He has never owned a car. He knows that unless somehow he hits a goldmine at his job, he’ll never own a home and have the white picket fence that all of us old people enjoy.
As an example. We bought our first home in 1994 for $222k. Middle class neighborhood, middle of the road house, nothing fancy. Zillow now lists it at $1.5++M. There is a very small subset of people aged 20-40 who can afford that.
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Post by myshelly on Oct 5, 2023 17:19:50 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... This thread is like a game of Where’s the Boomer Ding, ding, ding - here’s one! Where’s my prize? You are woefully out of touch with reality.
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Post by Texas Scrap on Oct 5, 2023 17:21:24 GMT
Yup. My college graduate kid is having trouble getting a job. They had a good major, good GPA, internship, and other typical work experience that a new college grad from a middle class family would have. Yet, they don’t have enough experience for entry-level jobs. When they apply to jobs related to their field that don’t require college degrees, they’re told they’re overqualified. So, yeah…it’s a lot different than it was. I’m glad that I opened this thread, because I had no idea. If you listen to reports about the job market, it sounds like things are good. It would be tough to work hard, do everything right, and still have trouble finding work. I hope that your kid finds something soon. So I read all of the comments here first, and then read the article. I am Gen X with a college kid and senior in HS who has worked my entire adult life. I 100% agree with the insane competitiveness and expectations of college kids trying to get into work place. It’s just so different than in the 1990s. The world Gen Z is adulting into is way more costly and competitive. And…. I think there is entitlement coming from the girl in the article. $300 to ship gifts home and a $1000 plane ticket are both likely on the high end. I cannot fathom who would give their kids gifts they would have to then spend $300 to ship home and I am sure she could have shopped around for a lower plane ticket. It was silly and dramatic and in keeping with the intent of the article to be incredulous. I also agree the parents should have known better than to mislead their daughter re the $1500 gift. It is a generous gift, but clearly not a mortgage down payment. I do think some (not all) boomers and gen Xers have raised their kids with unrealistic expectations for an immediate quality of life that we did not ourselves experience straight out of college. I think in many cases, not all, that trope is the fault of parents who bought their kids high end cars at 16, Starbucks on the way to school, etc without grounding their kids in what is affordable and realistic. I see the stress and anxiety amongst my college daughters friends about their grades and future and it makes me sad. They did not create this environment. The housing market, inflation, etc in the past few years are absolutely squeezing this generation and making it difficult for them to be independent and to save for their own futures.
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Post by MichyM on Oct 5, 2023 17:23:55 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... Are you finding that with your children and/or grandchildren? Because amoungst the younger people I know, that is not the case.
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Post by epeanymous on Oct 5, 2023 17:24:48 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... And here we have it, the avocado toast post. Young people don't want their relative's hand-me-down giant wooden dresser (that the relative doesn't want, to point out) because they don't have a space that accommodates it, and, while the cost of a lot of smaller goods (clothes, furniture) has not ballooned, the cost of housing in particular has. The "latest and greatest electronics"? Everyone needs a cellphone to function, and the price of things like TVs hasn't risen. I swear, I can go into Target and get a perfectly acceptable T-shirt for the same price I paid in 1995 and a perfectly acceptable TV for the same price I paid in 2000. On the other hand, if I hadn't purchased my first home in 2002, I don't know what I'd be doing now. The inflation in housing prices, particularly in urban markets like where I live, but, honestly, everywhere, is *insane.* You can get a dresser from Ikea on the cheap rather than take hand-me-down furniture that doesn't fit in your little apartment, but that's not the same as being able to afford to live by yourself in an apartment, much less to purchase a home.
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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 5, 2023 17:24:49 GMT
I wonder how many of the younger crowd are willing to buy a small crappy house in a not so great neighborhood, take in roommates and get a second job? Then spend weekends improving that house so they can trade up?
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Post by Bridget in MD on Oct 5, 2023 17:24:52 GMT
My son is 33. He has worked nonstop since he was 15.5, including while he went to a prestigious university while graduating with highest honors. He went directly from college to working full time. At 33 ( he and his partner of 6 years recently split up) he now shares a 3 bedroom apt with two other people. Now granted, he lives in NYC, but still. He has never owned a car. He knows that unless somehow he hits a goldmine at his job, he’ll never own a home and have the white picket fence that all of us old people enjoy. As an example. We bought our first home in 1994 for $222k. Middle class neighborhood, middle of the road house, nothing fancy. Zillow now lists it at $1.5++M. There is a very small subset of people aged 20-40 who can afford that. MichyM I am sorry to hear that. I hope he is OK.
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Post by nightnurse on Oct 5, 2023 17:25:09 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... Just no. My mother in law had this attitude, told me women work nowadays because they want the “luxury” of two cars and grand homes. I asked her to remind me what her first house cost-1.5 times her husbands yearly salary. My husband at the time made 60k. There were no homes, starter or otherwise, for 90k in our state. None. The attitude that the younger generation doesn’t want to sacrifice ignores the reality that those sacrifices would make zero difference. And that those “latest and greatest” electronics are a necessity. You need internet access to apply for a job. Most people have a cell phone and not a landline. I’m almost fifty so I still have a landline I never use (cheaper in my area to bundle internet and phone then just pay for internet) but my younger coworkers don’t. And lots of them don’t have “the latest and greatest” electronics, just a phone new enough to work. Starter cars? Where does one get that? My first car was $300 bought on the side of the road in a private sale. When I looked for my daughter (pre covid) the cheapest we could find was 6k. So if they don’t want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverage, so what? $6 a day for the whole year saves them about 2k. Not enough for a car for three years. Not enough for a down payment on a house for over a decade. It’s not about being unwilling to sacrifice, it’s about corporate greed and boomers tanking the economy and then saying well these younger kids just want it all, all being a living wage and affordable housing.
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Post by epeanymous on Oct 5, 2023 17:29:01 GMT
I wonder how many of the younger crowd are willing to buy a small crappy house in a not so great neighborhood, take in roommates and get a second job? Then spend weekends improving that house so they can trade up? When I meet up with my recent graduates, unless they have no student loans and secured big-law employment, they all have the exact same story if they went into the market to buy a house (and some of those students as well): they bid on multiple houses in outlying areas of the city and/or in undesirable suburbs and lost out to some all-cash bid where there were 3-5 bids for the house, minimum. They are literally looking for little starter homes that require them to commute, and are struggling to get those.
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Post by MichyM on Oct 5, 2023 17:30:43 GMT
My son is 33. He has worked nonstop since he was 15.5, including while he went to a prestigious university while graduating with highest honors. He went directly from college to working full time. At 33 ( he and his partner of 6 years recently split up) he now shares a 3 bedroom apt with two other people. Now granted, he lives in NYC, but still. He has never owned a car. He knows that unless somehow he hits a goldmine at his job, he’ll never own a home and have the white picket fence that all of us old people enjoy. As an example. We bought our first home in 1994 for $222k. Middle class neighborhood, middle of the road house, nothing fancy. Zillow now lists it at $1.5++M. There is a very small subset of people aged 20-40 who can afford that. MichyM I am sorry to hear that. I hope he is OK. Thank you, it has torn his world apart.
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Post by Prenticekid on Oct 5, 2023 17:34:41 GMT
I think expectations come into play as well. These days, the expectation of starter cars and starter homes are way different, than when I was a young adult. Many young adults today expect all the bells and whistles and upgrades, right from the start. They want it *all *, and they don't want to sacrifice their daily fancy beverages, going out socially, eating out, the latest and greatest electronics, etc... They don't want dated, lesser quality, hand me downs, to go without, etc... Out of curiosity, how old are you? And, how long has it been since you bought a car? Or a "starter" home? Are those even a thing anymore? And what young adults do you know that are actively trying to achieve those things? Because those that I know have full-time jobs and have to take public transportation and live where their parents or have roommates. As prices for houses become prohibitive, communities are also shortening bus routes. So good, hardworking young adults have even further limited options do to jobs.
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Post by MichyM on Oct 5, 2023 17:37:03 GMT
I wonder how many of the younger crowd are willing to buy a small crappy house in a not so great neighborhood, take in roommates and get a second job? Then spend weekends improving that house so they can trade up? This is a lot of people’s reality, and part of their home buying plan for the first X number of years. No idea if it’s the norm or not, but every single homeowner I personally between 30-40 has done (or is still doing) exactly this. No joke.
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Post by sideways on Oct 5, 2023 17:38:12 GMT
So I read all of the comments here first, and then read the article. I am Gen X with a college kid and senior in HS who has worked my entire adult life. I 100% agree with the insane competitiveness and expectations of college kids trying to get into work place. It’s just so different than in the 1990s. The world Gen Z is adulting into is way more costly and competitive. And…. I think there is entitlement coming from the girl in the article. $300 to ship gifts home and a $1000 plane ticket are both likely on the high end. I cannot fathom who would give their kids gifts they would have to then spend $300 to ship home and I am sure she could have shopped around for a lower plane ticket. It was silly and dramatic and in keeping with the intent of the article to be incredulous. I also agree the parents should have known better than to mislead their daughter re the $1500 gift. It is a generous gift, but clearly not a mortgage down payment. I do think some (not all) boomers and gen Xers have raised their kids with unrealistic expectations for an immediate quality of life that we did not ourselves experience straight out of college. I think in many cases, not all, that trope is the fault of parents who bought their kids high end cars at 16, Starbucks on the way to school, etc without grounding their kids in what is affordable and realistic. I’m reserving judgement on the plane ticket because we don’t know the circumstances. We don’t know where she was flying to/from and we don’t know how far in advance she was able to shop for the ticket. Maybe she didn’t know she could see her parents until the last minute. Also, as someone who had to ship a few things back home when our kid graduated from college (one larger and one medium box)because we couldn’t check them on the plane, I’m not surprised at the $300 to ship the gifts. We spent about that much. Her parents should have done the gift-giving differently.
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Post by myshelly on Oct 5, 2023 17:39:08 GMT
I wonder how many of the younger crowd are willing to buy a small crappy house in a not so great neighborhood, take in roommates and get a second job? Then spend weekends improving that house so they can trade up? Ding, ding, ding - another boomer! Literally all of them, booms, that’s what they do because they don’t have a choice. They all have more than one job and roommates and live in crappy houses.
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Post by sideways on Oct 5, 2023 17:42:14 GMT
I wonder how many of the younger crowd are willing to buy a small crappy house in a not so great neighborhood, take in roommates and get a second job? Then spend weekends improving that house so they can trade up? Because improving a house, even DIY, is so cheap? 😳 Have you seen the price of materials? That’s also assuming that these kids have the expertise to do the job properly.
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Post by grammadee on Oct 5, 2023 17:59:21 GMT
Are there any jobs a young person can get these days that includes a pension? I thought they had gone the way of dinosaurs as far a perks/wages/benefits. Probably not, but the dream we had when we had that part of our salary deducted to go toward pension was that we would have enough money to live on after our working life ended. We DO have the $ amount still being paid every month, but those dollars don't buy anywhere near what we thought they would. We grew up with nothing, gave our kids what start we could, including an education. They knew we worked hard to make that happen and appreciated what we could give them. Our grandchildren are just starting to find their footing, but they also know that the lifestyle they want comes at a price, and don't expect us to pay that price for them. My dh often worries about our dgk's and how they would cope if they had less than they were used to, but I remind him of my dad who started out in a priviliged life, had that ripped away from him as a teen, but found a way to scrabble back through poverty to make a home for us and give my siblings and me at least a start, even if that was mostly a can-do attitude.
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Post by sideways on Oct 5, 2023 18:06:07 GMT
Are there any jobs a young person can get these days that includes a pension? I thought they had gone the way of dinosaurs as far a perks/wages/benefits. Probably not, but the dream we had when we had that part of our salary deducted to go toward pension was that we would have enough money to live on after our working life ended. We DO have the $ amount still being paid every month, but those dollars don't buy anywhere near what we thought they would. We grew up with nothing, gave our kids what start we could, including an education. They knew we worked hard to make that happen and appreciated what we could give them. Our grandchildren are just starting to find their footing, but they also know that the lifestyle they want comes at a price, and don't expect us to pay that price for them. My dh often worries about our dgk's and how they would cope if they had less than they were used to, but I remind him of my dad who started out in a priviliged life, had that ripped away from him as a teen, but found a way to scrabble back through poverty to make a home for us and give my siblings and me at least a start, even if that was mostly a can-do attitude. Respectfully, comparing the two eras is the epitome of comparing apples to oranges.
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