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Post by rebelyelle on Jan 25, 2015 5:30:12 GMT
I think the movie did a disservice in making Kyle almost a one dimensional superhero. He wasn't. Myshelly may have offended me with some of the stuff she said, but the truth is Kyle was a troubled man. What I wish the movie did better was show that these troubled men (and women) are instruments used in a specific way, for a specific purpose, and it does not translate to civilian life. It's ugly sometimes- heck, a lot of the time. Dehumanizing the enemy is a coping mechanism, how could it not be? His job was to kill people. It takes a great deal of disassociation to kill people, or make plans that kill people, or find people other people kill- basically every job in the military. It is by definition antisocial behavior, done to save humanity. It isn't pretty, or fun. But it is necessary. And men like Kyle deserve the gratitude, and the recognition of their flaws, from the American people. They deserve to be real, and sometimes that is unpleasant. This above perfectly describes what I've been trying to say about this move since I saw it last weekend, but I don't have the life experience/context to sum it up as well as you did. Thank you. I had no recollection of Chris Kyle when I saw this movie. To be honest, I didn't even realize this was a true story until the end (I've apparently been living in a closet the last few weeks). Anyway…I'm as liberal as they come, and my husband even more so, and we didn't find ourselves enraged by war propaganda, or offended by a racist, anti-muslim fanatic. We were simply sad. Sad for what he had to do, what war made him do, what it turned him into, what he had to face when he came home, and what those terrible crimes did to both Americans AND Iraqis - I mean, a 7-year old tossing grenades with his mother? Really?!? The public reactions to this movie are truly baffling for me, because I can't really "see" either side, and I'm honestly wondering if I watched the same movie. I didn't think it was patriot porn (honestly, not even close), and I didn't think Chris Kyle was portrayed as a monster. I saw good and bad in the man-as-portrayed-in-film. I saw arrogance and some narcissism in his actions, but I also saw a man who was doing his job, doing it proudly, and doing it well - and one who had to live with the consequences of it all. I saw moments where he struggled with who and what he had become, and moments of fear for what he knew he had to do. And, I saw a bit of reconciliation at the end (although I think the film did a terribly slap-stick job of showing his road to recovery, but that's for another thread). I can't really comment on the "real" Chris Kyle, because I didn't know him, and frankly, most of us don't and never will. That being said, I cannot reconcile the man portrayed in that film with the one portrayed in his book - they just don't match. Either Clint Eastwood did a bangup job of reinventing a really big asshole, or Kyle did a terrible job of describing himself in his book - OR, the real guy is somewhere in the middle, and I suspect the latter is probably closer to the truth.
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Post by momof3pits on Jan 25, 2015 5:31:07 GMT
I'm a liberal bleeding heart, and a vet. So I guess my opinion should mean something, lol, but there is the rub- we do this so all the opinions mean something, even the ones we don't like. I think the movie did a disservice in making Kyle almost a one dimensional superhero. He wasn't. Myshelly may have offended me with some of the stuff she said, but the truth is Kyle was a troubled man. What I wish the movie did better was show that these troubled men (and women) are instruments used in a specific way, for a specific purpose, and it does not translate to civilian life. It's ugly sometimes- heck, a lot of the time. Dehumanizing the enemy is a coping mechanism, how could it not be? His job was to kill people. It takes a great deal of disassociation to kill people, or make plans that kill people, or find people other people kill- basically every job in the military. It is by definition antisocial behavior, done to save humanity. It isn't pretty, or fun. But it is necessary. And men like Kyle deserve the gratitude, and the recognition of their flaws, from the American people. They deserve to be real, and sometimes that is unpleasant. Very well said and a great perspective!
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,356
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Jan 25, 2015 13:56:50 GMT
I'm a liberal bleeding heart, and a vet. So I guess my opinion should mean something, lol, but there is the rub- we do this so all the opinions mean something, even the ones we don't like. I think the movie did a disservice in making Kyle almost a one dimensional superhero. He wasn't. Myshelly may have offended me with some of the stuff she said, but the truth is Kyle was a troubled man. What I wish the movie did better was show that these troubled men (and women) are instruments used in a specific way, for a specific purpose, and it does not translate to civilian life. It's ugly sometimes- heck, a lot of the time. Dehumanizing the enemy is a coping mechanism, how could it not be? His job was to kill people. It takes a great deal of disassociation to kill people, or make plans that kill people, or find people other people kill- basically every job in the military. It is by definition antisocial behavior, done to save humanity. It isn't pretty, or fun. But it is necessary. And men like Kyle deserve the gratitude, and the recognition of their flaws, from the American people. They deserve to be real, and sometimes that is unpleasant. Thank you Gyro. You are right on. Excellent post.
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Deleted
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Jun 10, 2024 5:22:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 14:15:50 GMT
I think it's cute that Michael Moore still believes that his opinion is even remotely relevant. There are plenty of "characters" that the right has to take...I'm so glad we're not forced to take Michael Moore too. He's a 1%'er that cannot stand the 1%'ers. (like much of Hollywood)
And Seth Rogan...well he gave us "The Interview"...so perhaps his career is on the same path that Michael Moore's career is. Good luck, Mr. Rogan.
They're both losers. (and I thought they were both losers long before they made any reference to Chris Kyle)
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jan 25, 2015 18:52:35 GMT
I'm a liberal bleeding heart, and a vet. So I guess my opinion should mean something, lol, but there is the rub- we do this so all the opinions mean something, even the ones we don't like. I think the movie did a disservice in making Kyle almost a one dimensional superhero. He wasn't. Myshelly may have offended me with some of the stuff she said, but the truth is Kyle was a troubled man. What I wish the movie did better was show that these troubled men (and women) are instruments used in a specific way, for a specific purpose, and it does not translate to civilian life. It's ugly sometimes- heck, a lot of the time. Dehumanizing the enemy is a coping mechanism, how could it not be? His job was to kill people. It takes a great deal of disassociation to kill people, or make plans that kill people, or find people other people kill- basically every job in the military. It is by definition antisocial behavior, done to save humanity. It isn't pretty, or fun. But it is necessary. And men like Kyle deserve the gratitude, and the recognition of their flaws, from the American people. They deserve to be real, and sometimes that is unpleasant. I think you are giving the impression that those who serve are seriously flawed; troubled is the word you used. I don't think they all are any more than any of us. I appreciate what you are saying but I disagree. Chris Kyle was not pigeon holed by the military. He volunteered to be a SEAL. We are all drawn to different jobs based on our strengths and weaknesses. That's universal. I think he struggled as all people do as they reach adulthood; where do I go? what do I do with my life? etc. I think he was shaken up, as we all were, after the terrorist attacks, especially the Khobar towers and 9/11. He suffered from PTSD, and I think that's where his flaws and struggles really were. But I appreciate your opinion and mostly because you didn't make it a moral peak from which you peered down on everyone.
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Post by scrappergonewild on Jan 28, 2015 19:18:00 GMT
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jan 28, 2015 20:08:07 GMT
DH and I saw the movie on Sunday. He had read the book years ago. I thought it was well done. I think it is important to show how war effects not only the soldier but their families too. scrappergonewild the opinion piece you shared shows a definite bias against Kyle and since it is not a fact checked news piece, how much of that blog hate is truth and how much is fiction? That being said, no one is disputing the man's service record. If he said or did things the article suggests perhaps he was a bit unhinged after all the tours in Iraq, maybe ptsd, IDK but what I don't understand is why some people feel the need to call him a liar and besmirch his reputation.
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Post by Tamhugh on Jan 28, 2015 20:47:20 GMT
I know that a lot of ladies on here don't like the View. However, on Monday (snow day for us), they discussed American Sniper on Hot Topics and I thought they had some great points. Whoopi and Nicole Wallace were saying that they think it is one of the best movies ever made about war and its effects on the people who have to fight it. I still don't know that I can handle seeing it......
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Post by scrappergonewild on Jan 28, 2015 21:11:49 GMT
DH and I saw the movie on Sunday. He had read the book years ago. I thought it was well done. I think it is important to show how war effects not only the soldier but their families too. scrappergonewild the opinion piece you shared shows a definite bias against Kyle and since it is not a fact checked news piece, how much of that blog hate is truth and how much is fiction? That being said, no one is disputing the man's service record. If he said or did things the article suggests perhaps he was a bit unhinged after all the tours in Iraq, maybe ptsd, IDK but what I don't understand is why some people feel the need to call him a liar and besmirch his reputation. If you read the post it shows how each of those is a lie. He chose to lie, I didn't. So I am not besmirching anything. Just the Jesse Ventura thing alone shows how he lies. It was proven in a court of law that he slandered Jesse.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jan 28, 2015 21:23:15 GMT
DH and I saw the movie on Sunday. He had read the book years ago. I thought it was well done. I think it is important to show how war effects not only the soldier but their families too. scrappergonewild the opinion piece you shared shows a definite bias against Kyle and since it is not a fact checked news piece, how much of that blog hate is truth and how much is fiction? That being said, no one is disputing the man's service record. If he said or did things the article suggests perhaps he was a bit unhinged after all the tours in Iraq, maybe ptsd, IDK but what I don't understand is why some people feel the need to call him a liar and besmirch his reputation. If you read the post it shows how each of those is a lie. He chose to lie, I didn't. So I am not besmirching anything. Just the Jesse Ventura thing alone shows how he lies. It was proven in a court of law that he slandered Jesse. Jesse Ventura won in a court and he's known to be a jerk, but he won the case. Again, what does that have to do with Kyle's service? He did four tours in Iraq, there don't appear to be any blemishes on his service record. No Navy Seals are out there disputing what he did. His personal life after may not be what you would like it to be but what does this have to do with his military service?
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Jan 28, 2015 21:23:28 GMT
DH and I saw the movie on Sunday. He had read the book years ago. I thought it was well done. I think it is important to show how war effects not only the soldier but their families too. scrappergonewild the opinion piece you shared shows a definite bias against Kyle and since it is not a fact checked news piece, how much of that blog hate is truth and how much is fiction? That being said, no one is disputing the man's service record. If he said or did things the article suggests perhaps he was a bit unhinged after all the tours in Iraq, maybe ptsd, IDK but what I don't understand is why some people feel the need to call him a liar and besmirch his reputation. If you read the post it shows how each of those is a lie. He chose to lie, I didn't. So I am not besmirching anything. Just the Jesse Ventura thing alone shows how he lies. It was proven in a court of law that he slandered Jesse. you have never lied in your life? I find that hard to believe. He was merely a man and we all have flaws. I would guess those flaws doubled or tripled after being in 4 deployments. What he did that was proven is what I honor him for.
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Post by scrappergonewild on Jan 28, 2015 21:53:17 GMT
If you read the post it shows how each of those is a lie. He chose to lie, I didn't. So I am not besmirching anything. Just the Jesse Ventura thing alone shows how he lies. It was proven in a court of law that he slandered Jesse. Jesse Ventura won in a court and he's known to be a jerk, but he won the case. Again, what does that have to do with Kyle's service? He did four tours in Iraq, there don't appear to be any blemishes on his service record. No Navy Seals are out there disputing what he did. His personal life after may not be what you would like it to be but what does this have to do with his military service? He has built himself up with these lies to look like a huge hero. I tend to question everything then. And no I have never lied to make myself look like something I am not.
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Post by scrappergonewild on Jan 28, 2015 22:57:57 GMT
And if you think that blog isn't truthful here is snopes backing up all those lies. www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.aspAgain no I never lied about shooting looters and others. Killing them etc. I find I can't believe anything I have heard from him after everything I have read. It's a shame. And FTR my dh was in the military and I fully support them. So don't try to go that route.
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Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jan 29, 2015 18:26:01 GMT
And if you think that blog isn't truthful here is snopes backing up all those lies. www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.aspAgain no I never lied about shooting looters and others. Killing them etc. I find I can't believe anything I have heard from him after everything I have read. It's a shame. And FTR my dh was in the military and I fully support them. So don't try to go that route. Again, his post war action especially if influenced by PTSD should be separated from his distinguished military service record which is not being disputed. Again, military record not being disputed. My husband also served in the military FTR but that has nothing to do with the conversation. Kyle (and another serviceman) died because he was a good man who tried to help other vets with PTSD. You seem to have a hard on for Kyle for reasons only you fully understand. Carry on.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jan 29, 2015 18:40:19 GMT
I think Chris Kyle was a very disturbed person who chose to be a sniper because he liked to kill, not because he was a patriot and I don't think we should glorify him. I'm in the Seth Rogan camp about this movie. Jesse Ventura sued his estate for lies and I believe Ventura won.
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Post by annabella on Jan 29, 2015 18:42:23 GMT
This morning yahoo had an article on Jesse Ventura and the comments go both ways.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jan 29, 2015 18:55:41 GMT
Now I know "that's" a lie.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jan 29, 2015 20:28:29 GMT
Now I know "that's" a lie. Is scrappergonewild a/k/a lizandjuan?
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Post by momof3pits on Jan 29, 2015 20:58:13 GMT
Now I know "that's" a lie. Hold on.. Now I gotta go get some popcorn.. Why can't it be possible to appreciate his service to our country while still recognizing that he may not be the true hero we want him to be because of some major character flaws? I don't think one necessarily has to completely negate the other.
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Post by scrappergonewild on Jan 29, 2015 21:17:44 GMT
Now I know "that's" a lie. Is scrappergonewild a/k/a lizandjuan? No. I've stated who I am in past threads. Look it up. And it isn't Liz.
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Post by momof3pits on Jan 29, 2015 21:18:20 GMT
Is scrappergonewild a/k/a lizandjuan? No. I've stated who I am in past threads. Look it up. And it isn't Liz. Can't you just make it easy on us lazy peas?!
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Post by scrappergonewild on Jan 29, 2015 21:25:02 GMT
My old 2peas name was kristininKS. Sorry to disappoint, but I am not some troll pea hiding here like two like to claim over and over again.
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Post by ilikepink on Jan 29, 2015 21:28:45 GMT
Jumping in here with another angle. And FTR have not seen the movie (may or may not) and haven't read the book.
Soldiers, LEO, Firefighters, paramedics, doctors, nurses - all dedicate their lives to do things that the majority of the "civilian" public would not do. Run into burning buildings to save people. Cut people open to save their lives. It takes someone special to do those things. And I think that in the learning of those skills, there is some loss of a sense of normalcy. I don't mean that in a bad way - but the average person isn't going to go to Iraq/Viet Nam/wherever to defend my right to type this if they don't give up a small piece of themselves. When that soldier/office/doctor returns home at the end of the day (or tour), the normal life they lead just isn't the same. And if that changed who Chris was, I'm not surprised. Then add to that PTSD upon return, and he just isn't a nice guy any more; he can't be. As I look at all the vets, and any one who dedicates their lives to doing something that I would not, I'm grateful. People may glorify a doctor that saves a life, and that doctor may go home at the end of that day and be an ass to their spouse. It's the same thing.
I think we need to give Chris, and lots of other people like him, a break. In order to do the job he did, he has to be different from the average person.
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Deleted
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Jun 10, 2024 5:22:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 22:54:07 GMT
Jumping in here with another angle. And FTR have not seen the movie (may or may not) and haven't read the book. Soldiers, LEO, Firefighters, paramedics, doctors, nurses - all dedicate their lives to do things that the majority of the "civilian" public would not do. Run into burning buildings to save people. Cut people open to save their lives. It takes someone special to do those things. And I think that in the learning of those skills, there is some loss of a sense of normalcy. I don't mean that in a bad way - but the average person isn't going to go to Iraq/Viet Nam/wherever to defend my right to type this if they don't give up a small piece of themselves. When that soldier/office/doctor returns home at the end of the day (or tour), the normal life they lead just isn't the same. And if that changed who Chris was, I'm not surprised. Then add to that PTSD upon return, and he just isn't a nice guy any more; he can't be. As I look at all the vets, and any one who dedicates their lives to doing something that I would not, I'm grateful. People may glorify a doctor that saves a life, and that doctor may go home at the end of that day and be an ass to their spouse. It's the same thing. I think we need to give Chris, and lots of other people like him, a break. In order to do the job he did, he has to be different from the average person. Tell it...thank you!
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Post by Skypea on Jan 30, 2015 2:31:52 GMT
You believe what you want you will not change my mind and I am not going to argue about it. But have you ever done any research about the actual man or are you basing your opinion on the movie. That's the problem I have. The vast majority of people praising this movie are doing so with no actual knowledge of anything beyond the movie. I think it's very simplistic to see him as any kind of hero. That kind of simple mindedness is America's biggest problem. did your research include articles like busypea posted or live interviews with Kyle, those he served with, his family and friends?
that article was disgusting and so leftist. If he killed the enemy waiting just around a corner or hiding in a doorway to kill your dh or son (or dd), would you still think he's horrible?
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