confused
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Jun 15, 2015 2:05:41 GMT
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Post by confused on Jun 15, 2015 18:12:10 GMT
I don't get the comments on the thread about needing to 'serve' the husband?? Is this a marriage partnership or an employer servant relationship? Because why should it be ALL on her to 'serve' him, is he incapable in some way? Is he not supposed to be half of the partnership? Yes, she could ask him, daily I guess, to wipe up spilled juice etc, but he is an adult with a functioning brain not a teenager. When is it ok to be able to expect that he's gotten it? After the 3rd, 4th or 100th time? He would NOT behave this way at his job so why is it ok to give him a pass at home. Why should she have to mother him too? Honestly if there is no partnership you need to decide if that is how you want to live, and is that how you want to model behavior for ypur sons and or daughters? If the spilled juice isn't bothering him and he may or may not get to it later, why can't he make that decision? Does it have to be cleaned up right then? If he doesn't will there be ants? If there are ants, won't he learn for next time? Apparently he should do everything that she would like him to do, when she would like it done, without her telling him. He should just know. At my job, I have expectations I have to meet. They are clearly laid out. My desk isn't always neat. That is okay with me. If my principal would like it to be neater, then he would have to lay out that expectation. I'm expected to grade, but I don't have to grade the same day I get the papers. If that changed, then he would have to tell me that I am to grade papers withing X time frame. But if one day he came in and said that he was thinking about terminating me because my papers weren't graded within 6 hours of the students handing them in, when that wasn't a prior requirement, would that be fair? You have got to be kidding me. So in your mind, I'm making a big deal about nothing if there is spilled juice and he shouldn't have to clean it right now?? It should just wait until later? And I'm some kind of demanding bitch because I think that spilled juice warrants an immediate clean up?? That's just freaking crazy. It's not like I'm saying the dishes need to be done RIGHT NOW THIS VERY INSTANT BECAUSE I SAID SO. It's spilled juice for God's sake. I can't believe that this is what you're choosing to pick me apart for.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 15, 2015 18:21:12 GMT
oh, well then definitely divorce him because it is annoying he can't read your mind that now after x years together you have changed the rules. Ask him for hep, lay it out for him. Each time x happens ask him to do y. Or ask him to do x on every sunday. Do you work outside the home? Perhaps he feels the home is your job. He doesn't expect your help with his job and doesn't think to help you with yours. damn...apparently I rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry that I offended you by "changing the rules". I don't expect him to fucking read my mind. I don't think it's too much to expect that I shouldn't have to tell a 30 something year old man to clean up a juice spill when I'm in another room making supper. Maybe he doesn't notice or doesn't care. Maybe the spilled juice isn't bothering him. It is bothering you, so if you want him to do something about it, then ask. If you don't want to ask, let the juice sit. You say you've asked him what you could do better and he says nothing, that he is happy. He doesn't see anything wrong in the relationship. Either he is lying and harboring ill feelings or he is truly happy and if he is happy, why would he change? He's good. You are the one who is unhappy, but you seem to expect him to change to make you happy instead of looking at yourself. If I need help with something and expect DH to help out, but don't tell him to, then I start getting irritated. I think, why is it always my freaking job to do the laundry? I work 40 hours a week with two days off. The works 36-40 in 3 or four days and gets at least three days off. Why are my days always spent cleaning and he sits on his ass doing nothing. Then I get pissed and my day (or hour, whatever) is ruined. If I instead tell DH, these are the things that need to be done today. Can you help with the laundry and make sure the kids put theirs away. Then I leave the conversation not feeling overwhelmed or resentful. DH doesn't notice when the kids are low on underwear. He does notice when he is low on underwear, so he'd do that load without me mentioning it, but he doesn't notice other things. After a while of asking for his help on a regular basis, he does things on his own sometimes (still not laundry unless he needs it). If he sees a full sink of dishes, he'll load the dishwasher or something like that. As for changing the rules on him, I do the grocery shopping. I do it weekly. I make a list and I go. If all of the sudden I decided it shouldn't only be up to me to grocery shop and I started to get mad at him because he hadn't done it and I hadn't asked him to do so, it wouldn't really be his fault for not stepping up. You aren't going to fix your marriage (if you even want to, and it doesn't sound like you do) by listing all the things you find wrong with him and expect him to change. Finally, the oral sex thing. Oral sex just isn't some people's bag, just like anal sex isn't. If oral isn't your thing and you quit doing it because you only sucked it up so you could get oral, then whatever, take the win and don't give him oral anymore. But if you enjoy giving oral sex and you are withholding because he doesn't like it, then it sounds punitive and stuff in the bedroom shouldn't be punitive. I'm not saying you should be blowing him nightly or anything, but you shouldn't withhold as punishment.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 15, 2015 18:22:05 GMT
If the spilled juice isn't bothering him and he may or may not get to it later, why can't he make that decision? Does it have to be cleaned up right then? If he doesn't will there be ants? If there are ants, won't he learn for next time? Apparently he should do everything that she would like him to do, when she would like it done, without her telling him. He should just know. At my job, I have expectations I have to meet. They are clearly laid out. My desk isn't always neat. That is okay with me. If my principal would like it to be neater, then he would have to lay out that expectation. I'm expected to grade, but I don't have to grade the same day I get the papers. If that changed, then he would have to tell me that I am to grade papers withing X time frame. But if one day he came in and said that he was thinking about terminating me because my papers weren't graded within 6 hours of the students handing them in, when that wasn't a prior requirement, would that be fair? You have got to be kidding me. So in your mind, I'm making a big deal about nothing if there is spilled juice and he shouldn't have to clean it right now?? It should just wait until later? And I'm some kind of demanding bitch because I think that spilled juice warrants an immediate clean up?? That's just freaking crazy. It's not like I'm saying the dishes need to be done RIGHT NOW THIS VERY INSTANT BECAUSE I SAID SO. It's spilled juice for God's sake. I can't believe that this is what you're choosing to pick me apart for. But spilled juice is what you are picking him apart for. You didn't say a baby's dirty diaper. You said spilled juice.
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confused
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Jun 15, 2015 2:05:41 GMT
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Post by confused on Jun 15, 2015 18:28:47 GMT
You have got to be kidding me. So in your mind, I'm making a big deal about nothing if there is spilled juice and he shouldn't have to clean it right now?? It should just wait until later? And I'm some kind of demanding bitch because I think that spilled juice warrants an immediate clean up?? That's just freaking crazy. It's not like I'm saying the dishes need to be done RIGHT NOW THIS VERY INSTANT BECAUSE I SAID SO. It's spilled juice for God's sake. I can't believe that this is what you're choosing to pick me apart for. But spilled juice is what you are picking him apart for. You didn't say a baby's dirty diaper. You said spilled juice. right, I did. I think spilled juice warrants an immediate clean up. It's all over the floor. If it's not cleaned up right away then the kids walk through it, it gets tracked all over the floor, and it's an even bigger mess. So yeah, I do think it needs to be done right now. And if I'm busy doing something while he is standing there, I do expect him to step up and clean up the juice that his kid spilled without me having to say it. You're acting like the spilled juice doesn't matter, like it's something that can wait until later. When it's on the floor and everyone is going to start walking through it, yes, it needs to be done now. If that makes me demanding, so be it
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Judy26
Pearl Clutcher
MOTFY Bitchy Nursemaid
Posts: 2,834
Location: NW PA
Jun 25, 2014 23:50:38 GMT
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Post by Judy26 on Jun 15, 2015 18:33:25 GMT
Reading through all of these posts has left me with the question of do you have an emotional connection to your husband? Do you talk about your days and what is going on in your lives? Do you go out together and have fun? In times of crisis are you there emotionally for each other? When you hear or see something that is interesting do you think about sharing it with DH?
I have been married for 20 odd years. Many of them were awful because I had huge trust issues due to DH hiding certain behaviors from me. He finally hit a breaking point and gave up these behaviors. It took a while for me to trust him again but it is lovely now to be able to share thoughts with him without that inner core of anger I was living with.
I guess what I am saying is that if your life together consists of work ( housework, kids, etc.) and emotionless sex then it can lead to feeling helpless and loneliness. That is a horrid way to live. If you think you have a chance to regain emotional intimacy and be each other's best friend then your marriage is worth putting renewed effort into it. If DH is not interested on working on that aspect of your life together then it might be better to go your separate ways. Being connected emotionally can help with putting up with the rest of the not so great parts of being married.
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confused
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Jun 15, 2015 2:05:41 GMT
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Post by confused on Jun 15, 2015 18:33:35 GMT
Jesus Christ, you are just being unreasonable. I don't know why my situation pissed you off so bad. Why is this so touchy for YOU? You're making assumptions about me based on this one thread, picking me apart for expecting my husband (who is an ADULT and should be my EQUAL) to help take care of the house without me asking. How is that expecting him to read my mind? Fuck. What if I did the same shit he did? The house would never be clean, no one would eat until 8 at night, the kids would never get baths, and we'd both be on the couch watching tv. I don't understand your big problem with me. I can take a little criticism, but you're ripping me apart because I expect my husband to act like a grown man with a mind of his own and not tell him things like a little kid. I don't want another child that is the same age as me!
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Post by bostonmama on Jun 15, 2015 18:36:19 GMT
We sit here saying that everything should be written out for men in bullet points so they know where to step in, but why is it expected that women will do everything without someone giving us a list? Because it's in our nature...but why? It seems a condition of the heart. If my whole heart were in a partnership/marriage/friendship, I'd be looking at what I could bring to it. Why is it considered "mind reading" for a husband to know that the home/children/bedroom are areas of mutual consideration? Change stinky diaper, pick up spilled sippy cups, start dinner, bathe kids, etc are inherently on us because no one else is going to do it. That just seems silly. Silly, but reality. OP, you don't have to live like that. You have a choice. You have a choice in what your kids see as a model for a husband/father. If it's important to you and you lovingly express this to him, then it should be important to him. YOU should be important to him. If he continues to show you otherwise, then you have to make a choice. But sit down in a calm manner & reiterate to him what you'd like your partnership to look like.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 17:06:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:39:32 GMT
Jesus Christ, you are just being unreasonable. I don't know why my situation pissed you off so bad. Why is this so touchy for YOU? You're making assumptions about me based on this one thread, picking me apart for expecting my husband (who is an ADULT and should be my EQUAL) to help take care of the house without me asking. How is that expecting him to read my mind? Fuck. What if I did the same shit he did? The house would never be clean, no one would eat until 8 at night, the kids would never get baths, and we'd both be on the couch watching tv. I don't understand your big problem with me. I can take a little criticism, but you're ripping me apart because I expect my husband to act like a grown man with a mind of his own and not tell him things like a little kid. I don't want another child that is the same age as me! You're right, your expectations about an adult taking care of HIS house and HIS kids are not at all out of line. I think this comes down to the fact that he doesn't want to do those things and doesn't have to. And was probably never taught to pay attention to things like that. I've tried to be more understanding of my DH not "seeing" our house like I do, when I had the realization one day that he takes care of things that I don't have much clue about -- and because he always does them, and I don't have to, I never think of them. I honestly never think about when the car needs an oil change, because that's always been something he's done. I often totally forget it is garbage day, because he's always taken care of the recycling and taking the cans to the curb. And it's not that I'm not capable of those things, it's just that it's part of our division of labour at home. It's easier when something is obviously mine vs his to do, the harder part is navigating the shared duties. The problem you have isn't so much that he doesn't DO those things.. it's more that they don't matter to him and he doesn't even think about them, probably.
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confused
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Jun 15, 2015 2:05:41 GMT
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Post by confused on Jun 15, 2015 18:40:22 GMT
We sit here saying that everything should be written out for men in bullet points so they know where to step in, but why is it expected that women will do everything without someone giving us a list? Because it's in our nature...but why? It seems a condition of the heart. If my whole heart were in a partnership/marriage/friendship, I'd be looking at what I could bring to it. Why is it considered "mind reading" for a husband to know that the home/children/bedroom are areas of mutual consideration? Change stinky diaper, pick up spilled sippy cups, start dinner, bathe kids, etc are inherently on us because no one else is going to do it. That just seems silly. Silly, but reality. OP, you don't have to live like that. You have a choice. You have a choice in what your kids see as a model for a husband/father. If it's important to you and you lovingly express this to him, then it should be important to him. YOU should be important to him. If he continues to show you otherwise, then you have to make a choice. But sit down in a calm manner & reiterate to him what you'd like your partnership to look like. This is exactly my point. I don't want to have to ask him to do the things that are obviously in need of being done. Ugh. I should have never posted. I swear, I'm more upset now than when I first posted last night. Yes, when I talk to him I will be calm and talk, not fight or yell. Thank you.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 17:06:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:43:11 GMT
We sit here saying that everything should be written out for men in bullet points so they know where to step in, but why is it expected that women will do everything without someone giving us a list? Because it's in our nature...but why? It seems a condition of the heart. If my whole heart were in a partnership/marriage/friendship, I'd be looking at what I could bring to it. Why is it considered "mind reading" for a husband to know that the home/children/bedroom are areas of mutual consideration? Change stinky diaper, pick up spilled sippy cups, start dinner, bathe kids, etc are inherently on us because no one else is going to do it. That just seems silly. Silly, but reality. OP, you don't have to live like that. You have a choice. You have a choice in what your kids see as a model for a husband/father. If it's important to you and you lovingly express this to him, then it should be important to him. YOU should be important to him. If he continues to show you otherwise, then you have to make a choice. But sit down in a calm manner & reiterate to him what you'd like your partnership to look like. I honestly believe that these differences are slightly biological, but more learned. Boys are just not taught or expected to clean up, do laundry, manage a house. It's more acceptable to be a clueless bachelor than to be a single woman who can't iron, do dishes, and keep her apartment tidy. And then this level of divide continues in committed relationships because women are expected to clean, men are expected to not know how -- AND, AT FIRST -- it's not a problem. Add in kids, life stress, jobs/careers, and suddenly the woman is doing everything. **Obviously not all men/relationships are like this, but I really believe that this is more common than a relationship in which both individuals share home and kids as equally as possible.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 15, 2015 18:45:07 GMT
I think lots of people feel like this from time to time, or go through extended periods of not being on the same page as their spouse... but I would guess not many are okay with staying there. Like others have said, there are things YOU can do that don't even involve your spouse to make your situation better. So, if you ask your husband specifically to do something to help around the house, like vacuum or put the kids to bed, will he do it? Yes, he would do it if I asked specifically to do something. But it gets old and annoying for me to mother him by asking him to do chores or help with the kids. I don't want to have to do that. My husband and I didn't get married until we had decided who was going to do what. We both came from traditional homes where mom did almost everything and dad brought most/all of the income home. It was rough at first because he believed the man did the outside stuff and the woman did the inside. To me, that is laughable (I was working full time too). Needless to say a list was written and we have tweaked it verbally since the kids arrived on the planet, but he does his stuff every week and so do I. I don't nag him and he knows what he has to get done. Perhaps one list of stuff he does every single week is needed. Maybe you should leave one night a week for your alone time and let him do baths and bedtime. Start off one step at a time. And yes, I hear your complaints from lots of women. I think many people go through it. Right now he is happy because you are doing your job all of the time.
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Post by bostonmama on Jun 15, 2015 18:45:20 GMT
I wasn't trying to insinuate you wouldn't be calm. I tend to get emotional and emphatic when I'm passionate about something, & it can come across combative to my spouse.
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Post by peasapie on Jun 15, 2015 18:45:48 GMT
Im sorry you're having this trouble. Some of it reminds me of things that would come up between my ex husband and me. He wouldn't listen when I tried to express my needs--until it was too late. The problem, of course, is that a lot of little things begin to build up, so that a seemingly small issue like spilled juice becomes the tipping point and a symbol for a whole host of other problems.
It's hard to have a partnership when one person seems disengaged. It becomes a kind of tit for tat where each person is just waiting for the other to do another annoying thing. ideally you would both figure out what the trigger points are and step back from them, rather than continuing to pick at the sore. But it's hard to do, I know. I just want to say that I totally get why the things that bother you are annoying!
The advice to see your own therapist is good. You need someone unbiased in your corner to help you navigate. I hope you'll get some good advice about how to defuse the situation and get your husband to engage in this relationship. Try as hard as you can for as long as you can.
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jenkate77
Full Member
Posts: 427
Jun 26, 2014 1:33:16 GMT
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Post by jenkate77 on Jun 15, 2015 18:45:48 GMT
We sit here saying that everything should be written out for men in bullet points so they know where to step in, but why is it expected that women will do everything without someone giving us a list? Because it's in our nature...but why? It seems a condition of the heart. If my whole heart were in a partnership/marriage/friendship, I'd be looking at what I could bring to it. Why is it considered "mind reading" for a husband to know that the home/children/bedroom are areas of mutual consideration? Change stinky diaper, pick up spilled sippy cups, start dinner, bathe kids, etc are inherently on us because no one else is going to do it. That just seems silly. Silly, but reality. OP, you don't have to live like that. You have a choice. You have a choice in what your kids see as a model for a husband/father. If it's important to you and you lovingly express this to him, then it should be important to him. YOU should be important to him. If he continues to show you otherwise, then you have to make a choice. But sit down in a calm manner & reiterate to him what you'd like your partnership to look like. This is exactly my point. I don't want to have to ask him to do the things that are obviously in need of being done. Ugh. I should have never posted. I swear, I'm more upset now than when I first posted last night. Yes, when I talk to him I will be calm and talk, not fight or yell. Thank you. Obvious to him isn't the same as obvious to you. In your spilled juice example, well, that may be an exception. The "lightbulb" about my husband not reading my mind was over something as silly as a hug. I was really upset and he didn't hug me. (This was at least 10 years ago, so I have no idea why I was upset.) He said, "the last time you were upset and I hugged you you were mad - how am I supposed to know what you're thinking?" Ever since, if I need a hug and it's not offered I ask. If I'm cooking dinner and the baby needs a diaper change, I ask. He doesn't know that I can't walk away from the stove right then - and even though he's a great Dad he doesn't always know when the baby needs a diaper change.
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Post by bostonmama on Jun 15, 2015 18:47:18 GMT
We sit here saying that everything should be written out for men in bullet points so they know where to step in, but why is it expected that women will do everything without someone giving us a list? Because it's in our nature...but why? It seems a condition of the heart. If my whole heart were in a partnership/marriage/friendship, I'd be looking at what I could bring to it. Why is it considered "mind reading" for a husband to know that the home/children/bedroom are areas of mutual consideration? Change stinky diaper, pick up spilled sippy cups, start dinner, bathe kids, etc are inherently on us because no one else is going to do it. That just seems silly. Silly, but reality. OP, you don't have to live like that. You have a choice. You have a choice in what your kids see as a model for a husband/father. If it's important to you and you lovingly express this to him, then it should be important to him. YOU should be important to him. If he continues to show you otherwise, then you have to make a choice. But sit down in a calm manner & reiterate to him what you'd like your partnership to look like. I honestly believe that these differences are slightly biological, but more learned. Boys are just not taught or expected to clean up, do laundry, manage a house. It's more acceptable to be a clueless bachelor than to be a single woman who can't iron, do dishes, and keep her apartment tidy. And then this level of divide continues in committed relationships because women are expected to clean, men are expected to not know how -- AND, AT FIRST -- it's not a problem. Add in kids, life stress, jobs/careers, and suddenly the woman is doing everything. **Obviously not all men/relationships are like this, but I really believe that this is more common than a relationship in which both individuals share home and kids as equally as possible. Completely agree. At some point we need to stop perpetuating the stereotype.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 17:06:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:53:55 GMT
First and foremost, to echo what others have said, definitely seek counseling for yourself. That will help you clarify some things and have a point from which to work.
To specifically address the things around the house: I'll say, after 22 years of marriage, that at least in my marriage, my husband and I look at the house very differently. We have different ideas about what needs to be done and what's tolerable. But I also think with two adults, there is a minimum threshold of what is acceptable and the division of labor.
I had a turning point in regards to this in my marriage last year. I had really reached my breaking point, and felt the way you do – why should I have to spell everything out? A dirty towel on the floor or a glass on the counter was a big old "f u" to me. When we first started working on this, I had even gotten to the point that I wanted him to do the things I wanted him to do because he should want to do them, not to please me.
What happened over the course of the past year was that I stop taking everything so personally and dealt with things in a matter-of-fact way. Not lecturing, not berating, but a simple "it would be helpful if you would..." Curiously enough, things started to turn around. He can see now that when these things are taken care of, I'm happier and more relaxed. I'm better at communicating my needs and he responds. I'm not saying that it's easy or simple – and it does sound like you have some other complicating factors. I also would find the bedroom situation difficult to deal with. Wishing you, your marriage and your family all the best.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 15, 2015 18:55:41 GMT
We sit here saying that everything should be written out for men in bullet points so they know where to step in, but why is it expected that women will do everything without someone giving us a list? Because it's in our nature...but why? It seems a condition of the heart. If my whole heart were in a partnership/marriage/friendship, I'd be looking at what I could bring to it. Why is it considered "mind reading" for a husband to know that the home/children/bedroom are areas of mutual consideration? Change stinky diaper, pick up spilled sippy cups, start dinner, bathe kids, etc are inherently on us because no one else is going to do it. That just seems silly. Silly, but reality. OP, you don't have to live like that. You have a choice. You have a choice in what your kids see as a model for a husband/father. If it's important to you and you lovingly express this to him, then it should be important to him. YOU should be important to him. If he continues to show you otherwise, then you have to make a choice. But sit down in a calm manner & reiterate to him what you'd like your partnership to look like. Because it doesn't sound like he has ever done these things. So why is it that now he is supposed to care about it? HE should be picking up the slack, but isn't, so how is that going to change? By stewing about it and getting pissed? By divorcing? Wouldn't it be better to just ask him to do it? Start with the bullet point, if that is what it takes. Isn't that easier than dropping your kid off for their visitation with daddy? After a while of the bulleted list or the simply asking for x, y, z, maybe he'll figure it out. Maybe he won't.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 15, 2015 18:58:54 GMT
I honestly believe that these differences are slightly biological, but more learned. Boys are just not taught or expected to clean up, do laundry, manage a house. It's more acceptable to be a clueless bachelor than to be a single woman who can't iron, do dishes, and keep her apartment tidy. And then this level of divide continues in committed relationships because women are expected to clean, men are expected to not know how -- AND, AT FIRST -- it's not a problem. Add in kids, life stress, jobs/careers, and suddenly the woman is doing everything. **Obviously not all men/relationships are like this, but I really believe that this is more common than a relationship in which both individuals share home and kids as equally as possible. Completely agree. At some point we need to stop perpetuating the stereotype. I am absolutely sure that one of the single best things that came out of my divorce and subsequent rearing of my two boys as a single mother is that I have always believed that we are (were) all members of our household and we are all (were) responsible for taking care of our household regardless of traditional gender roles. Chores are (were) assigned based on whether or not they needed to be done, regardless of whether or not you are a boy or a girl. You do laundry, you do yard work. Whatever. I've told the boys over and over again that it is their job to do their part in every relationship and not assume that any given job is for one or the other of them. Jury is still out of course, but I hope in the long run it works. I am reasonably sure that no grown man or woman enjoys being told what to do and it certainly doesn't engender a loving relationship between two people-more like a parent child relationship and who wants to be married to their mother or father??
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jenkate77
Full Member
Posts: 427
Jun 26, 2014 1:33:16 GMT
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Post by jenkate77 on Jun 15, 2015 19:01:54 GMT
First and foremost, to echo what others have said, definitely seek counseling for yourself. That will help you clarify some things and have a point from which to work. To specifically address the things around the house: I'll say, after 22 years of marriage, that at least in my marriage, my husband and I look at the house very differently. We have different ideas about what needs to be done and what's tolerable. But I also think with two adults, there is a minimum threshold of what is acceptable and the division of labor. I had a turning point in regards to this in my marriage last year. I had really reached my breaking point, and felt the way you do – why should I have to spell everything out? A dirty towel on the floor or a glass on the counter was a big old "f u" to me. When we first started working on this, I had even gotten to the point that I wanted him to do the things I wanted him to do because he should want to do them, not to please me. What happened over the course of the past year was that I stop taking everything so personally and dealt with things in a matter-of-fact way. Not lecturing, not berating, but a simple "it would be helpful if you would..." Curiously enough, things started to turn around. He can see now that when these things are taken care of, I'm happier and more relaxed. I'm better at communicating my needs and he responds. I'm not saying that it's easy or simple – and it does sound like you have some other complicating factors. I also would find the bedroom situation difficult to deal with. Wishing you, your marriage and your family all the best. "I want you to want to do the dishes." "Why would I want to do the dishes?" www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTBAhYE-_bw
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Post by apeacalledliz on Jun 15, 2015 19:06:42 GMT
I don't get the excuses of "he can't read your mind" "you're changing the rules on him, how is he supposed to know" "he's happy so why would he change"... he also has a wife who is extremely unhappy and has TOLD him she is unhappy yet because he's happy he is unwilling to change. I call bullshit. He is a grown ass human being with a brain in his head, he can see dirty dishes in the sink, he can see spilled juice on the floor, he can smell a dirty diaper and he damn well knows what is supposed to be done, he's just too damn lazy to do it. It's not about not knowing what is supposed to be done or that he is so absentminded that he forgets it needs to be done, it's a manipulation plain and simple. Why we make these excuses for men is beyond me. Confused, I totally get what you are saying and if he is unwilling to listen to your needs and wants and desires and even consider pitching in or making sure you feel loved and wanted, he is maybe not the right guy for you.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 15, 2015 19:07:53 GMT
The absolute toughest time in our marriage was when I decided to take some time off after my son was born. I found taking care of two small children was really difficult for me mentally. Preschool and toddler aged kids are so, so needy. There is just never a moment when you can be "off" I have had incredibly stressful jobs, but at least you could go to the bathroom without someone screaming for you. I know some people really relish staying home with their kids, but I'll be honest - I genuinely sucked at it. It took a lot out of me, and I took a lot out on my husband. We had always had a pretty even distribution of household chores - particularly as I worked incredibly long hours. When I was home, I made "sense" for me to do more of the cooking (something that he would traditionally do) - it didn't take long before I felt things were really out of wack. I'm not sure if hindsight if they were truly out wack, or I was just so damn exhausted they felt out of wack. We had some tough arguments about it, and I remember genuinely feeling like he just didn't get it. We muddled along for a few years until, I just couldn't handle feeling like the maid anymore and I went back to work full time. My husband ended up staying home for a while until my son was in preschool. We've done a pretty good job ever since of dividing up the child oriented chores and we outsource a lot of the other household chores. I might be completely projecting - but in several of your posts you seem just overwhelmed with being a SAHM to 3 small children and want some help. I can only say for myself, I am so incredibly glad we made it through that rough patch. I genuinely love my husband, and he's an incredible father and husband.
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peabrain
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,588
Jun 25, 2014 22:18:04 GMT
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Post by peabrain on Jun 15, 2015 19:08:58 GMT
I don't think you're asking too much.
And I don't think it's only about spilled juice.
I want a partner in life. I want his eyes to sparkle again when he sees me. I want that feeling back when he kisses me, not those pecks we just muddle through now. I want sparks. I want a compliment every now and again and I want him to mean it. I'm fucking hot. I wanna laugh with him again. I want a partner in crime. I wanna cuddle on the sofa again. I want to feel safe with him again. I want to be in his arms and not feel rushed. I want to feel the sun on our relationship.
This rut we are in is sooooooo not fun and I want out of it. I'm so sick of walking on egg shells. I'm sick of feeling like I'm doing and saying the wrong thing. I'm a good person and a good mother, who just can't fix what's wrong anymore.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 15, 2015 19:10:32 GMT
And OP, I'm truly not trying to make you mad and I will step out after this post.
I've been there. I posted about my marriage struggles on the old board. I was weeks, if not days, away from throwing in the towel. I had many of the same complaints you have. He didn't want to go to marriage counseling. He didn't see a need for it.
Someone wrote a post that pissed me off. Someone wrote a post that made me feel sorry for myself. Someone wrote a post that made me feel validated and that maybe leaving would be better. Someone wrote a post that made me stop and think.
She asked what was different. Why now, after (for me it had been 7 or 8 years of marriage) did these issues bother me? What changed?
Well, for one, I had gone back to work full time AND was somehow keeping the fort in tact at home without help from him at all. He did absolutely nothing around the house and didn't seem to care if the dishes were done or the laundry (except his) was clean. He ate often at work, so he didn't even care if there was food in the house, but he could criticize me if he finally did notice something.
I was tired, overwhelmed, and most importantly I felt taken advantage of. He had no idea, and just telling him didn't help. He'd either shut down or get pissy.
I don't remember exactly what the post said. I wish we could still access the pod because I bookmarked it and I also bookmarked a long time's pea's marriage advice.
For the most part it said that you could only control you and how you react. You can't force another person to behave the way you want them to just as they can't force you to behave a certain way. And if the person is only acting a certain way as to not piss their partner off, then that becomes a point of contention and leads to more problems.
Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Do you need to be right to be happy? Is it more of an issue to have to ask him to do something or for it to not be done at all?
Finally, and I said I will back out after (unless you quote me, and then I will be back), with the small kids, do you ever have couple time? Is it possible that this rut you are in is because you aren't connecting as anything other than parents or people who live together?
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MorningPerson
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,506
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Jul 4, 2014 21:35:44 GMT
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Post by MorningPerson on Jun 15, 2015 19:12:26 GMT
Jesus Christ, you are just being unreasonable. I don't know why my situation pissed you off so bad. Why is this so touchy for YOU? You're making assumptions about me based on this one thread, picking me apart for expecting my husband (who is an ADULT and should be my EQUAL) to help take care of the house without me asking. How is that expecting him to read my mind? Fuck. What if I did the same shit he did? The house would never be clean, no one would eat until 8 at night, the kids would never get baths, and we'd both be on the couch watching tv. I don't understand your big problem with me. I can take a little criticism, but you're ripping me apart because I expect my husband to act like a grown man with a mind of his own and not tell him things like a little kid. I don't want another child that is the same age as me! I haven't read this whole thread, but from what I HAVE read, I really think I get where you're coming from, OP. I can not stand when a grown man plays the clueless 8 year old boy role. Biggest turnoff ever.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Jun 15, 2015 19:27:43 GMT
Spilled juice can be dangerous.... someone could slip and fall and really hurt themselves. Your husband should be bright enough to clean up spilled juice without your asking....
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Post by tlsmi on Jun 15, 2015 19:32:53 GMT
My (for 25 years) DH and I went through an awful time years ago. This is a guy who would poo poo any therapy of any sort but when we went through hell I said we need to go to marriage counselor. We need to go separately then see the counselor as a couple. He went. We both did a lot of work. My point is, if he had refused counseling to save this marriage, I don't think I could have stayed with him.
There are so many men of all ages who think of domestic chores or child rearing 'woman's work'. They learned it from their own fathers or whatever. An acquaintance of ours divorced and he proceeded to tell me his ex wife was a terrible housekeeper...i said maybe she was overwhelmed..did you ever ask if you could help? He said ' not my job' he was in his mid-thirties.
Best of luck to you.hope you can work things out...
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Post by ingrid6 on Jun 15, 2015 19:34:12 GMT
confused you sound overwhelmed and tired (just a guess so I could be way off). At one time dh and I had 4 kids under the age of 6 plus 2 teenagers. I know tired. It was my middle name for quite some time. Dh was always there to help out (we owned an Inn and so we worked together and did all the childcare stuff together) but neither one of us is a mindreader. What I saw or needed he didn't always see AND it was the same the other way around. That being said, it was just ask and I'm/he's happy to do what needs to be done. I walk into a room and see an empty popcorn bowl, 3 glasses and a layer of pollen on the kitchen table and mutter "crap, the house is a disaster!' - dh stands there & looks at me like I'm nuts (he may have a point Would I give up my husband over spilled juice or not knowing what needs to be done - especially chore wise? Good Lord, never! I realized a long time ago that my husband actually got the short end of the stick. The house and kids were my domain - I was "in charge" of that part of our lives yet I assumed he'd know what to do and when to do it. It dawned on me later what a fine balance he had to walk on. I think the biggest question is do you love him? Is he and your marriage worth fighting for? You say he doesn't want out, but it sounds like you are ready to be done. My biggest issue in this wouldn't be the chores, it would be the trust issue. Without trust and a solid friendship, your shot at having a successful and happy marriage is slim. I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread but I definitely recommend "The Five Love Languages" I'm sorry if this sounds harsh or preachy - that is not my intention at all. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do!
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Post by Sorrel on Jun 15, 2015 20:07:33 GMT
Well, confused, you have received the whole gamut of responses on this thread. I will throw mine in too. My first marriage was similar to yours. I got along well with my ex-DH on a basic level, but I had a lot of frustration over his lack of help with things. I know no one is a mind reader, but I must have told him thousands of times that it would make me feel a lot better if he would ever even think to ask if I needed something, or could use help around the house or with the kids. Sure, he would do something if I told him to, but it just started to feel like he didn't give a crap, because he would never bother to ask me, even after I told him it was important. I don't think that is what his intent was, but that is how it felt to me... maybe other women would be content with their husband showing love in other ways, but having a husband who demonstrates he is thinking of me, "gets" me, wants to make me happy, well that is important to me! He didn't want to go to counseling either, because he felt like everything was fine. According to him, I was the problem, because I wanted him to change. I suppose that is true, but I KNEW after fighting these feelings for years (including taking anti-depressants), that what I needed from our marriage was not going to suddenly go away. Friendship and common interests were only going to sustain us for so long. I felt like I was living with a roommate.
We got divorced after 13 years of marriage. It was difficult, for sure. We have 50/50 custody of our kids. Part of the divorce for us was promising that we would always treat each other well for the sake of the kids, and we have done that. Our divorce is very amicable and people have complimented us many times on our lack of drama. I think divorce can be okay if both parties can set aside hostilities.
I recently got remarried. My DH now is the polar opposite of my ex-DH. He is the most thoughtful, loving man I have ever met. We talk about everything for hours, every day, still, even after being together for 3 years. He constantly anticipates my feelings and always looks for ways to show he cares for me, and I do the same for him. Our relationship is so healthy and wonderful. For years I wondered if there was really something wrong with me, maybe I was expecting too much. Well, for me, the answer is no! I truly was with the wrong person, FOR ME. I believe my ex-DH is a good guy. He is a good dad, and I am sure many women would really love him as a husband. But for me, he was wrong, and I have zero regrets about divorcing.
I think you have to look really long and hard at yourself, your expectations, and what you are willing yourself to bring to a marriage. Leaving does seem like an easy way out, but if you don't address any underlying issues you have with your own communication skills, you will not be happy. I knew, that while I had my faults, that on a level that was important me, ex-DH and I were not connecting. It didn't bother him, and he was never going to work hard to change that, so I came to realize that I had to leave.
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confused
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Jun 15, 2015 2:05:41 GMT
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Post by confused on Jun 15, 2015 20:31:03 GMT
I wasn't trying to insinuate you wouldn't be calm. I tend to get emotional and emphatic when I'm passionate about something, & it can come across combative to my spouse. I hope I didn't come across as bitchy to you. I didn't mean to at all.
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confused
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Jun 15, 2015 2:05:41 GMT
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Post by confused on Jun 15, 2015 20:46:01 GMT
Well, confused, you have received the whole gamut of responses on this thread. I will throw mine in too. My first marriage was similar to yours. I got along well with my ex-DH on a basic level, but I had a lot of frustration over his lack of help with things. I know no one is a mind reader, but I must have told him thousands of times that it would make me feel a lot better if he would ever even think to ask if I needed something, or could use help around the house or with the kids. Sure, he would do something if I told him to, but it just started to feel like he didn't give a crap, because he would never bother to ask me, even after I told him it was important. I don't think that is what his intent was, but that is how it felt to me... maybe other women would be content with their husband showing love in other ways, but having a husband who demonstrates he is thinking of me, "gets" me, wants to make me happy, well that is important to me! He didn't want to go to counseling either, because he felt like everything was fine. According to him, I was the problem, because I wanted him to change. I suppose that is true, but I KNEW after fighting these feelings for years (including taking anti-depressants), that what I needed from our marriage was not going to suddenly go away. Friendship and common interests were only going to sustain us for so long. I felt like I was living with a roommate. We got divorced after 13 years of marriage. It was difficult, for sure. We have 50/50 custody of our kids. Part of the divorce for us was promising that we would always treat each other well for the sake of the kids, and we have done that. Our divorce is very amicable and people have complimented us many times on our lack of drama. I think divorce can be okay if both parties can set aside hostilities. I recently got remarried. My DH now is the polar opposite of my ex-DH. He is the most thoughtful, loving man I have ever met. We talk about everything for hours, every day, still, even after being together for 3 years. He constantly anticipates my feelings and always looks for ways to show he cares for me, and I do the same for him. Our relationship is so healthy and wonderful. For years I wondered if there was really something wrong with me, maybe I was expecting too much. Well, for me, the answer is no! I truly was with the wrong person, FOR ME. I believe my ex-DH is a good guy. He is a good dad, and I am sure many women would really love him as a husband. But for me, he was wrong, and I have zero regrets about divorcing. I think you have to look really long and hard at yourself, your expectations, and what you are willing yourself to bring to a marriage. Leaving does seem like an easy way out, but if you don't address any underlying issues you have with your own communication skills, you will not be happy. I knew, that while I had my faults, that on a level that was important me, ex-DH and I were not connecting. It didn't bother him, and he was never going to work hard to change that, so I came to realize that I had to leave. wow. Seriously, your situation sounds so similar to mine that it's eery. Divorce doesn't seem like the easy way out to me...it seems like a lot of work and a lot of heartache. That's why I'm so unsure. I have told my husband before that we are more like roommates than anything else. We've tried making time for ourselves to reconnect but it doesn't seem to work anymore
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