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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 0:35:14 GMT
Where does she go if she initiates divorce? It will be her fault for not forgiving her husband. Who will support her? She grew up in a culture that the man is the head of the household. She has 4 kids under the age of 5. She's stuck.
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Post by elaine on Aug 21, 2015 0:42:28 GMT
This was on my Facebook feed from Matt Walsh. Not that Matt speaks for ALL CHRISTIANS (although he tries). It shows that the story is getting traction. I'm not too proud to admit when I was wrong. So, yes, I was wrong about the Duggar situation. If you recall, several months ago it was revealed that Josh Duggar, the oldest son in the "19 Kids and Counting" clan, sexually abused his sisters when he was 13 or 14 years old. This revelation was used by many anti-Christian folks as a way to "prove" that all Christians are hypocrites and the whole "family values" thing is a shame, etc. I wrote a post in the early days of that story pointing out that the liberal outrage over sexual abuse seems to be rather selective and insincere. I further said that Christian ideals aren't disproved just because one Christian fails to live up to them. And I also said that, by all accounts, Josh has repented and changed his ways, and he should be forgiven. I stand by the first two parts of my argument, but on the last I was misguided. Reports surfaced yesterday alleging that Josh Duggar paid for and maintained two Ashley Madison accounts over the last two years. Ashley Madison is a dating site for married people seeking affairs. It was hacked this week and the records of 30 million adulterers were released. Josh is one of the 30 million. Just in the last hour or two, Josh admitted publicly to the affairs, so this is no longer "alleged." He went from sexual abuser to serial adulterer. These are facts. On the profile, Josh specifies that he's looking for "one night stands" and "experimentation" and other things in that vein. It's disgusting. The man has a wife and several kids, and in between trolling for affairs, he was on TV presenting himself as a Christian role model. So I was wrong about Josh Duggar being a repentant man. Clearly, he isn't. Or at least he wasn't. Maybe now he'll finally begin the process, but it's certainly impossible to believe that someone could be truly sorry for past sexual sin while currently in the process of fishing for affairs and "experimental" one night stands. He's a traitor to his family. I feel awful for them, and I pray that Josh really does come to Christ. Beyond that, I pray his wife and kids somehow recover from all of the shame Josh has brought upon them. Because, let's be clear, if you sign up for an adultery website and then your information gets hacked and your family ends up embarrassed and devastated -- that is YOUR fault. You are the one who victimized them. The hackers acted illegally, but this all happened because of your choices. Don't want your information stolen from an adultery website? Don't sign up for an adultery website. Pretty simple formula. I must also admit that the more I think about this, I realized I was too easy on the the Duggar parents as well. Jim Bob and Michelle knew that their oldest son was struggling with severe sexual sin, they knew their daughters had been abused, they knew their family was in the midst of moral and spiritual turmoil, yet they STILL decided to put themselves and their children on TV for ten years. That's really just not a justifiable decision. Josh Duggar is CLEARLY not equipped to be a world famous face of Christian values, but he was put in that position -- as were all the Duggars -- by the Ma and Pa Duggar. That doesn't excuse what he did, but it does indicate that his parents were supremely reckless and self-serving. I generally am not a fan of parents putting their kids on TV -- especially for years and years of their lives, depriving them of a normal childhood -- but to do it when there's sexual abuse going on inside your home? Inexcusable. In any case, we learn yet again that, as Chesterton said, the Christian ideal has never been tried and found wanting, but it has been tried and found difficult. To live up to our faith is difficult. Nobody does it perfectly -- I know I certainly don't -- but when we put ourselves in front of the world as role models, we are called to carry an even heavier burden of responsibility. Even those of us without a worldwide audience still have that burden, and we are still role models in some capacity, but the more people you have looking up to you, the more profound the duty. I don't blame Josh or his parents for being imperfect. But I do blame them for climbing onto the stage and seizing the limelight when they were clearly so compromised. The fall of the Duggar family is sad in many ways, and I am still sickened by those who are taking pleasure in it, but this is a tragedy precipitated by conscious decisions. This is sin. This is what sin does. You might think it will bring you pleasure, but in the end it can only destroy. I guess that's the lesson. If only we didn't have to keep relearning it. We live in a sick world, everyone. And Christ is the only medicine.And, as a non-Christian, I think that this is part of the problem. I think that there would be a heck of a lot less sinning and much more kindness, compassion, and respect, if people spent less time worrying about an intangible G-d and what he thinks, and more time worrying about their own behavior and interactions with their living, breathing fellow humans. If people spent more time actually practicing the golden rule in every interaction in their lives, and worried less about some afterlife, the world would be much more healthy. Do something because it is the right thing to do, or don't do something because you (general you) know it is wrong. One doesn't need religion to know right from wrong, or to treat others well.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 21, 2015 0:47:43 GMT
I'm a hypocrite, I cheated on my wife, I ask for your forgiveness ... ?
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Post by wholarmor on Aug 21, 2015 0:48:37 GMT
Ha. Matt Walsh admitted to being wrong- kind of. He irritates the hell out of me!
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 21, 2015 0:57:34 GMT
That Matt Walsh thing: why are "Christians" like him always acting as if they belong to some minority - some BELEAGUERED minority - and the rest of us are actively lobbying against "Christians?"
Poppycock. There are at least 150,000,000 Christians in this country. At least. Christians who I don't feel need quotation marks.
Instead, he should be writing the truth. To wit: he is an evangelical Christian, and he belongs to a minority of evangelical Christians who think they are better than everybody else, should be immune from any criticism, and are so reactionary and self-righteous, they mistake criticism for organized persecution.
Yeah, he gave on the Josh D thing, but he refuses to give an inch on the persecution things. Color me unimpressed.
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Post by moveablefeast on Aug 21, 2015 1:00:45 GMT
I am not mocking Christianity, I am pointing out the fact that (in my experience), the profession of Christian faith gives many people a pass on their incredibly bad behavior. This whole thing saddens me so much. I've never been interested in the Duggars, but always thought they were at least raising children with a good moral compass. As a Christian, I liked seeing their profession of faith so clearly and unapologetically. I'm praying for Anna and her kids as I'm sure she is utterly devastated right now. Marriage is for better or for worse and I'm sure she's going to try to make things work. There are people and families who are rebuilt after horrible things like this, so I am hopeful that Josh will truly turn himself around. I have to respond to the above statement, though. I think Christians are usually judged more harshly than others as (it's true) we are generally speaking about good values and staying away from sin. Everyone acts shocked when a Christian does something wrong. We're not Jesus! We're regular people. Think of the pastors of large churches who have been revealed to be adulterers. They were lambasted and immediately fired or resigned. I think people forget that Christians are sinners, just like everyone else. We ALL make mistakes. We are ALL tempted. Christians fall into traps and into dark places just like others. I don't say that as an excuse or a way to receive lighter punishment. It is simply the truth. Jesus said he came to heal the sick. So by signing on to the Christian faith, you are admitting you are sick and need help. I don't know...I just hate that a story about one person makes everyone trash Christians. I guess for me - as a Christian, a convert in my adulthood, and a person who has so often both before and after my conversion has felt judged and criticized by other Christians - I have no interest in judging Christians, especially not those with moral failings because folks, I've got those too. It's the hypocrisy I can't stand. It's not the preacher who falls but preaches the grace of God for many that bothers me. It's the one who makes a name for himself telling everyone else what to do, all the while cheating on his wife or engaging in homosexual affairs, or abusing children or stealing from the church or you name it. In my opinion the man who falls and preaches the grace of God gives glory to Jesus but a hypocrite discredits the sacrifice of Jesus, which was for all of us. Sinners redeemed by the grace of God get so much respect in my book. Because it is by grace we have been saved, not by our effort but by the work of Jesus on our behalf, so that no one can boast of his own goodness.
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Post by alittleintrepid on Aug 21, 2015 1:48:16 GMT
She is probably pregnant with #5. Isn't the newest baby only a month old?
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Deleted
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Apr 28, 2024 22:55:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 2:08:32 GMT
Where does she go if she initiates divorce? It will be her fault for not forgiving her husband. Who will support her? She grew up in a culture that the man is the head of the household. She has 4 kids under the age of 5. She's stuck. I don't know what religion she/they are, but it's just so hard for me to believe and understand any religion that would expect a woman to forgive, support, and stay with a man that's a child molester. This is just beyond my comprehension. The cheating is nothing compared to what he's done to children. And when the AM story first came out my initial thought was, "of course he's a member, is anyone even surprised?" ***eta***Does the wife have no family? Is there nobody in the church to help her and the children? Does she even want the help?
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Post by Belia on Aug 21, 2015 2:36:04 GMT
I think Katie Fogel should give Anna Duggar a call.
She can give her tips on finding a good divorce attorney, writing terse press releases, and GETTING THE HELL OUT OF DODGE when your husband turns out to be a sick, philandering POS.
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Post by scrappinmom3 on Aug 21, 2015 3:21:37 GMT
Yuck. Just yuck.
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Post by stacy71 on Aug 21, 2015 3:24:52 GMT
Didn't link it, but the statement from the Christian guy sort of pissed me off. There is not sexual sin and sin is not everywhere. God is not in my life, not sure I believe in God, but guess what? I don't cheat, steal, lie, judge or other things that are morally wrong. Not because of God, but because it is not nice to do those things. I am not tempted to have affairs or steal or lie. I don't get Christians who say sin is everywhere. No it is not, don't be a shitty person and don't sexually repress your kiddos. Josh probably doesn't know a thing about std's I hope he wore condoms. I think his parents are pretty shitty people!
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Post by scrapmaven on Aug 21, 2015 3:31:31 GMT
This has nothing to do w/Christianity. He disgraces a beautiful religion full of good people. This has everything to do w/a sexual predator. He can hide behind the bible, but the fact is that he's a sick and twisted person and clearly has no boundaries or sense of right and wrong.
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 21, 2015 3:45:04 GMT
Maybe he's the lone reprobate in his family, but I still wonder if he was a victim before he was a child molester and a philanderer. Molesting one's own siblings is about as deviant as you can get, especially when you are still a child yourself. He's still responsible for his behavior, but I suspect what's public about him and his clan is the tip of the iceberg. Their collective desire for attention and celebrity with their closets bursting with skeletons is so confusing to me! I bet it means they aren't smart enough to go away yet. Maybe he was molested too, at least one person in his life has been convicted for child porn, Corporal Josh Hutchens (the police officer that knew about his teenage molesting). I think there was a minister they followed too that was convicted of some charge.
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Post by jamielynn on Aug 21, 2015 3:45:53 GMT
Of all the members on the TLC show, Anna Duggar, Josh's wife, is my least favorite. I always got a phony-baloney vibe off her - but she wasn't phony, she just lived in this fake little world that she believed was real.
From a young age she was isolated from society. Her friends were her family, her teachers were her family, her socialization was always with her family from what I have understood watching the show for many years.
Her value in society was being a wife, and mother. She was allowed to court, not date -so the only potential partner she knew was one that her parents "courted" along with her. She had no time to get to know him without him putting on a show for the whole family being they couldn't spend time alone prior to their marriage. She couldn't see warning signs as she had nothing to compare Josh to being the only potential partners she knew she knew through the church and her family - who encouraged her to be with Josh. Rather than a traditional for most dating situation, she "courted" for a matter of months, then was married off to Josh ... to support her. Other than helping him at his car lot, we see no skill beyond high school homeschool she has in the work world. Immediately upon marriage she had a child of her own at a very young age. Now at around 25 years old .. she is mother to not one, but four children under the age of 5.
Anna appears to have no means to support herself, let alone herself and four small children. I can't imagine any occupation that she could hold where she could afford childcare for those kids - unless she worked for a daycare center where her children could attend for free being she was an employee.
Not to mention the back taxes the media has mentioned they owe on their home(s) ..... which being married to Josh I would believe she is responsible for as well despite no marketable job skills. Good luck to him finding any kind of job anytime soon, or getting clients for any kind of business he may try to do to support his family.
I feel like had Anna had some touch of what life and society were like in the real world, from a young age she wouldn't have fallen into this trap her family set her up for.
She admits she was aware of his "childhood issues" (incest) however, with a lack of education, and the only education you have coming from your parents ... and your parents "okay" with that ... she didn't truly know any better. I hope her parents are now prepared to care for her and the four young children she has because they set her up for this failure.
I must say I really feel bad for all the siblings of Josh. Their world must be turned upside down with the constant negative media attention. I am sure the mother and father are beyond themselves with his huge new confession, and they are torn apart and the siblings all see this.
Other reports are mentioning Jessa in People Magazine this week mentioning her sadness over her pregnancy and how she is struggling to feel the excitement for herself and her new marriage. Some give a big eye roll but I feel for her, I truly do. Not because she isn't getting a TLC special, but because all the family, church, friends and media attention are so focused on their every move, and not just that ... but not on her and what should be the most exciting time of her life. I hope she and her husband do as Jill and her husband have, and take a break from the spotlight and move somewhere else for a bit and settle into marriage and their own family.
I can only hope that this is a lesson for all the other siblings and family friends who live similar situations - that courting isn't the only way in life, nor is the church, or your parents controlling your every move even as an adult "because it is best." It truly is a sad situation all around.
I am holding out that Josh was a victim of crimes as a small child himself. I hope I am wrong on this .. but to me it would explain a lot of his behaviors. If that is the case I hope he is willing to confess that in private and get the help he badly deserves if so.
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Post by melanell on Aug 21, 2015 4:13:25 GMT
I agree. I feel badly for them for a myriad of reasons.
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anniebygaslight
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Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Aug 21, 2015 5:55:21 GMT
His hypocrite parents knew he had a problem at age 14 and allowed him to go on his merry way all these years. These people made him wait for their first kiss at the altar! He had already molested his sisters! Unbelievable! And now not only has he molested his sisters, but cheated on his wife. I'm no supporter of Anna because I feel she should have left this scumbag the second she found out about the molesting, but I realize she's trapped by her religion, pressure from family and most likely has little education to go out and support 4 small children. But if ever there was a moment to find yourself and protect your small children, it would be right now. She needs to grow a pair and get the hell out of dodge before the next news report we have on him is him molesting his children. This entire situation disgusts me. Rarely do I get worked up over celebrity situations but somehow this has just struck something inside me. I feel for the molested girls and I pity his wife who is trapped in a terrible situation. She could earn a heck of a lot of money from the book and film rights of this pantomime if she had enough gumption. But she won't unless she gets some decent advice which not affiliated to this barm pot religion with one rule for men and another for women. At the moment she is no more than a simpering brood mare unfortunately.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Aug 21, 2015 6:02:57 GMT
Didn't link it, but the statement from the Christian guy sort of pissed me off. There is not sexual sin and sin is not everywhere. God is not in my life, not sure I believe in God, but guess what? I don't cheat, steal, lie, judge or other things that are morally wrong. Not because of God, but because it is not nice to do those things. I am not tempted to have affairs or steal or lie. I don't get Christians who say sin is everywhere. No it is not, don't be a shitty person and don't sexually repress your kiddos. Josh probably doesn't know a thing about std's I hope he wore condoms. I think his parents are pretty shitty people! Precisely.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Aug 21, 2015 6:25:53 GMT
Clearly no one is getting what I'm saying. It's called copy and paste. Someone gets a file of information, and they PLANT the information in it, and then release the fake info. I'm saying he could have just as easily claimed that's happen. But, we know how honest hackers tend to be so I doubt no one would have believed him. Actually, I think everyone understood exactly what you were saying, every time you said it. Not sure why you're so invested in this hypothetical scenario where Josh Duggar is the victim of evil hackers, but he *did* admit it, so....
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Post by momof3pits on Aug 21, 2015 6:41:24 GMT
Well there goes my skepticism!
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tduby1
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Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Aug 21, 2015 10:38:52 GMT
I kind of feel sorry for Anna. This link shows a time line of everything that happened in exactly a three month period. And she gave birth, which I am sure is marred by it all. Highlights:
May 19 molestation scandal broke June 9 moved from MD to AK July 19 gave birth Aug 19 ashley Madison scandal broke.
She has got to be broken. When she should have been preparing to give birth she was smack dab in the middle of the first scandal and having do make an impromptu move across country -- with three children and 8 mos pregnant. With a jobless husband and housekeeping surely not yet set up she has a baby. When she should be nurturing and bonding with that baby of 1 mo old the cheating scandal hit.
She was raised repressed and naive by no doing of her own. I honestly wonder if, at the time she was told of the molestations she even really was given a clear picture of the situation and if she had the maturity to understand it.
And her babies. Her poor, poor babies. My heartbreaks that the newest ones birth is encompassed in scandal. How on Earth can baby and mama be properly bonding? Josh is an ass.
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grinningcat
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Aug 21, 2015 11:41:47 GMT
I am not mocking Christianity, I am pointing out the fact that (in my experience), the profession of Christian faith gives many people a pass on their incredibly bad behavior. This whole thing saddens me so much. I've never been interested in the Duggars, but always thought they were at least raising children with a good moral compass. As a Christian, I liked seeing their profession of faith so clearly and unapologetically. I'm praying for Anna and her kids as I'm sure she is utterly devastated right now. Marriage is for better or for worse and I'm sure she's going to try to make things work. There are people and families who are rebuilt after horrible things like this, so I am hopeful that Josh will truly turn himself around. I have to respond to the above statement, though. I think Christians are usually judged more harshly than others as (it's true) we are generally speaking about good values and staying away from sin. Everyone acts shocked when a Christian does something wrong. We're not Jesus! We're regular people. Think of the pastors of large churches who have been revealed to be adulterers. They were lambasted and immediately fired or resigned. I think people forget that Christians are sinners, just like everyone else. We ALL make mistakes. We are ALL tempted. Christians fall into traps and into dark places just like others. I don't say that as an excuse or a way to receive lighter punishment. It is simply the truth. Jesus said he came to heal the sick. So by signing on to the Christian faith, you are admitting you are sick and need help. I don't know...I just hate that a story about one person makes everyone trash Christians. It's not a question of trashing all Christians, it's a question of trashing the Christians who don't walk the walk along with their talk. The hypocrites, the ones who trash non-Christians, the ones who pray and pity non-Christians and who act like they are superior to everyone because they are Christian. These are the ones that deserve to be trashed because they are hypocritical liars. They say they are Christian but act far from how Christians say they are supposed to act (ex: saying they love everyone as Christ did but turning around and denying rights because the bible told them so). So yeah, if a Christian like Josh Duggar or anyone in that family acts in the exact opposite way of how they like to portray themselves... hell, ya they are fodder for being trashed. They brought it on themselves. If these types of Christians would stop saying one thing and doing something else, maybe they wouldn't be trashed all the time.
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grinningcat
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Aug 21, 2015 11:46:19 GMT
This was on my Facebook feed from Matt Walsh. Not that Matt speaks for ALL CHRISTIANS (although he tries). It shows that the story is getting traction. I'm not too proud to admit when I was wrong. So, yes, I was wrong about the Duggar situation. If you recall, several months ago it was revealed that Josh Duggar, the oldest son in the "19 Kids and Counting" clan, sexually abused his sisters when he was 13 or 14 years old. This revelation was used by many anti-Christian folks as a way to "prove" that all Christians are hypocrites and the whole "family values" thing is a shame, etc. I wrote a post in the early days of that story pointing out that the liberal outrage over sexual abuse seems to be rather selective and insincere. I further said that Christian ideals aren't disproved just because one Christian fails to live up to them. And I also said that, by all accounts, Josh has repented and changed his ways, and he should be forgiven. I stand by the first two parts of my argument, but on the last I was misguided. Reports surfaced yesterday alleging that Josh Duggar paid for and maintained two Ashley Madison accounts over the last two years. Ashley Madison is a dating site for married people seeking affairs. It was hacked this week and the records of 30 million adulterers were released. Josh is one of the 30 million. Just in the last hour or two, Josh admitted publicly to the affairs, so this is no longer "alleged." He went from sexual abuser to serial adulterer. These are facts. On the profile, Josh specifies that he's looking for "one night stands" and "experimentation" and other things in that vein. It's disgusting. The man has a wife and several kids, and in between trolling for affairs, he was on TV presenting himself as a Christian role model. So I was wrong about Josh Duggar being a repentant man. Clearly, he isn't. Or at least he wasn't. Maybe now he'll finally begin the process, but it's certainly impossible to believe that someone could be truly sorry for past sexual sin while currently in the process of fishing for affairs and "experimental" one night stands. He's a traitor to his family. I feel awful for them, and I pray that Josh really does come to Christ. Beyond that, I pray his wife and kids somehow recover from all of the shame Josh has brought upon them. Because, let's be clear, if you sign up for an adultery website and then your information gets hacked and your family ends up embarrassed and devastated -- that is YOUR fault. You are the one who victimized them. The hackers acted illegally, but this all happened because of your choices. Don't want your information stolen from an adultery website? Don't sign up for an adultery website. Pretty simple formula. I must also admit that the more I think about this, I realized I was too easy on the the Duggar parents as well. Jim Bob and Michelle knew that their oldest son was struggling with severe sexual sin, they knew their daughters had been abused, they knew their family was in the midst of moral and spiritual turmoil, yet they STILL decided to put themselves and their children on TV for ten years. That's really just not a justifiable decision. Josh Duggar is CLEARLY not equipped to be a world famous face of Christian values, but he was put in that position -- as were all the Duggars -- by the Ma and Pa Duggar. That doesn't excuse what he did, but it does indicate that his parents were supremely reckless and self-serving. I generally am not a fan of parents putting their kids on TV -- especially for years and years of their lives, depriving them of a normal childhood -- but to do it when there's sexual abuse going on inside your home? Inexcusable. In any case, we learn yet again that, as Chesterton said, the Christian ideal has never been tried and found wanting, but it has been tried and found difficult. To live up to our faith is difficult. Nobody does it perfectly -- I know I certainly don't -- but when we put ourselves in front of the world as role models, we are called to carry an even heavier burden of responsibility. Even those of us without a worldwide audience still have that burden, and we are still role models in some capacity, but the more people you have looking up to you, the more profound the duty. I don't blame Josh or his parents for being imperfect. But I do blame them for climbing onto the stage and seizing the limelight when they were clearly so compromised. The fall of the Duggar family is sad in many ways, and I am still sickened by those who are taking pleasure in it, but this is a tragedy precipitated by conscious decisions. This is sin. This is what sin does. You might think it will bring you pleasure, but in the end it can only destroy. I guess that's the lesson. If only we didn't have to keep relearning it. We live in a sick world, everyone. And Christ is the only medicine.And, as a non-Christian, I think that this is part of the problem. I think that there would be a heck of a lot less sinning and much more kindness, compassion, and respect, if people spent less time worrying about an intangible G-d and what he thinks, and more time worrying about their own behavior and interactions with their living, breathing fellow humans. If people spent more time actually practicing the golden rule in every interaction in their lives, and worried less about some afterlife, the world would be much more healthy. Do something because it is the right thing to do, or don't do something because you (general you) know it is wrong. One doesn't need religion to know right from wrong, or to treat others well. This. A thousand times this. I can't agree with this enough.
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Aug 21, 2015 11:55:18 GMT
I feel so badly for Anna and the other Duggar girls. They don't get a choice of divorcing or being independent. They are taught from young ages that the only way to live is to obey the men in their lives as the earthly examples of God's rule over us. The only way to live is to act like Mom and Dad and their screwed up church tells them to act. They can't choose to stand up and say no and tell brother Josh to go to hell and stop touching them. They're supposed to be meek, gentle, and obedient.
I had a lot of church people judge me for not having children. I was talked about in the pulpit of one church. These people didn't care at all that pregnancy would have killed me and would have seriously damaged my baby, my only God given purpose was to be an obedient brood mare. Dh and I left the church because of this. It was so nauseating and heartbreaking to be judged for something that God allowed to happen. I was born with these genetic problems. God intended this for my life. Dh knew about my inability to have children and didn't care. It was amazing to us how few people really tried to follow what the Bible actually teaches and not listen to some pastor and take his word as gospel truth just because he had the gift of gab and acted like he knew what he was talking about. Like Bill Gothard. All the horrible things he did, and he blamed the women. My own FIL stares at my breasts and blames me for what I wear. It really upsets dh. My MIL had a breast removed years ago, and I respect and love her too much to let her see how her husband really acts around me. I don't want to hurt her.
The way the Duggar women behave is not what God says about women. It's a perversion of the truth. Marriage isn't just for having children. The relationship between a wife and husband is an example of the love Jesus has for the church. He wasn't a high and mighty preacher, he was an outcast, hated by the religious leaders because He taught that the leaders should be servants, not kings. The New Testament exhorts believers to be discerning and look out for wolves in sheep's clothing--men who claim to know God but don't preach his word or have skeletons in their closet and lie about it.
These poor women are stuck unless they leave their faith. Their families will be told to shun them and treat them like reprobates that have lost their true faith. The girls will be judged and told that they are in danger of going to hell. I hurt so much for them.
The quiverfull movement is against birth control. There's no way Josh would use a condom. He's married. I doubt he respects his wife enough to use a condom with his hookups, although time will tell. I'm sure some of his partners will come forward because they can make a lot of money from their stories.
What I hate about the Duggars and other hypocrites like them is that they are so horribly judgmental and hateful to unbelievers while they are acting like those that they condemn. That wasn't how Jesus acted. He was kind to the Samaritan woman at the well, Zaccheus the hated tax collector, and others on the edges of society. He loved them and was friendly with them and brought them into the fold that way. Jesus is the one person who was sinless and could rightly condemn men for their sins. He didn't act that way, except to the religious leaders who were hypocrites. He called them "whited sephlecures" who were dead and rotten on the inside. The only time Jesus got angry was at people using the temple for their own monetary gain. That sounds like a lot of megachurch preachers these days who are so concerned about making money for themselves.
I wish the Duggar girls could hear the truth of real Christianity. Christians are no different than any other person on earth. Christians just believe that God paid the price for our sins. We try not to sin and act like Christ as a show of devotion and true belief. We fail miserably all the time, and we're not any better than anyone else. It's upsetting to see "Christians" that act all holier-than-thou and treat people like they're so much better and more important and use God's name in their pursuit of money and large numbers of people to fill their churches. There's nothing Godly about enslaving women and using God's word for personal gain and power. Sadly there's a lot of people out there today doing this. God says in the Bible that in the last days there will thousands of preachers who claim to know God but are just religious for their own gain, and he warns Christians to be wary of them because although they claim to know God, God doesn't know them.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Aug 21, 2015 12:09:42 GMT
God says in the Bible that in the last days there will thousands of preachers who claim to know God but are just religious for their own gain, and he warns Christians to be wary of them because although they claim to know God, God doesn't know them. What verse is that? Where it says in the bible there will be thousands of preachers like this? I am always fascinated by end time discussions and claims.
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Post by lollapealooza on Aug 21, 2015 12:14:27 GMT
My favorite part is that he waited until he thought he was going to get caught...and then he confessed. He would still be at it if he thought he was getting away with it. Wonder if Jim Bob is in on this little subterfuge also?
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 21, 2015 12:16:44 GMT
Clearly no one is getting what I'm saying. It's called copy and paste. Someone gets a file of information, and they PLANT the information in it, and then release the fake info. I'm saying he could have just as easily claimed that's happen. But, we know how honest hackers tend to be so I doubt no one would have believed him. Actually, I think everyone understood exactly what you were saying, every time you said it. Not sure why you're so invested in this hypothetical scenario where Josh Duggar is the victim of evil hackers, but he *did* admit it, so....
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iluvpink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,278
Location: Michigan
Jul 13, 2014 12:40:31 GMT
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Post by iluvpink on Aug 21, 2015 12:27:55 GMT
I also feel so bad for Anna. I've read a ton about how Gothard and the families that follow him believe. And raise their children. I have little doubt that she was told what to do and has little knowledge of the outside world and little clue on how to get out of the world she lives in. And she would think it a sin to even consider getting out. These kids are SO sheltered. Some kids much more so than even the Duggars. There are families that don't let grown daughters living at home drive to the grocery store alone, wives can't remind their husband to do a chore as that's not submitting etc. These families are so entrenched in a culture that is very foreign to most of us.
I think Anna COULD get out, there are people willing to pay to hear her story. But she may not know that and even if she does, wouldn't know where to start. And again, SIN!
I even feel the teensiest tinsiest sorry for Josh. I think he's uber creepy and wouldn't want to be around him, have my dd around him and think he should never be near children. But with the way he was raised is really effed up and I can see how it could have messed up his mind a bit. That said, I hope Anna leaves him, takes the kids, takes him for every dime he has and we never hear another word about him or the rest of his family again. I also hope the rest of the kids get out of that family. I really blame Jim Bob and Michelle.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Aug 21, 2015 12:31:19 GMT
It's not being Christian that's an issue. It's an issue that he was the face of a vocal group that insisted that THE GAYS were ruining the sanctity of marriage and THEY MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are more references to adultery in the Bible than homosexuality. Clear references that specifically say - adultery - don't do it, God will get pissed off!
But he has the nerve to tell everyone that gays are a threat, they will ruin your marriage if they are allowed to marry, etc.
Gays haven't influenced my marriage one way or another. But a cheating, child-molesting spouse sure would have.
If you are going to be the representative of a group, you are going to be held to a higher standard. If you don't like it, keep your mouth shut and don't tell others how to live. I don't trust felons to tell me how to conduct my life, and I don't allow losers like Josh Duggar to tell me how to protect my marriage.
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Post by wandawoman on Aug 21, 2015 13:01:19 GMT
I agree. I feel badly for them for a myriad of reasons. I wonder how much they know about what is going on. If they aren't allowed to watch TV, they probably only know what their parents tell them.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 21, 2015 13:55:13 GMT
Does anyone else think the "looking at porn" leading him to becoming unfaithful is a refusal to really take responsibility? Those smuttty pictures lead him to stray....really? He's such a tool. I hope Anna packs up her babies and finds herself a better man. No, I don't see it as a refusal to take responsibility. What you put in your mind takes root. I believe he has some serious sexual problems and I'm hoping he gets help for them and that God will make beauty out of the ashes. I'm praying for all the Duggars, including Josh. Hope that this is his rock bottom and he truly seeks help. Yes, he waited til he got caught..but isn't that how it goes with just about everyone? They hit bottom, or they get found out and it forces them to face it. This is true for most of us. Since we don't have cable I've never seen an episode of the Duggars (but then, I'm not a fan of reality TV either). But if he hasn't hit rock bottom in all this, then I don't know what else could send him there. This is devastating/sad not only for him but for his family and all those who looked up to his family. I can't say that I would blame his wife if she left him; that, of course, is up to her. But I would think it would be much more difficult to stay with him than to leave him. Forgiving is one thing; trusting again is a whole other thing.
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