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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 0:00:31 GMT
Without a doubt. My user name is that of a nineteenth century American suffragette.Convincing women to pander to men by denying feminism ("I'm no feminist, but I believe in equal blah, blah...") was a truly remarkable snow job, and just shows how submissive (or maybe malleable?) women continue to be.No other groups who have been been victims of discrimination (e.g. racial minorities) ever deny being civil rights advocates - maybe 'cause the leaders of their movements are invariably men? Yes! Especially the red part. I was trying to think of a way to say that, but you did a much better job of articulating what I wanted to say.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 0:04:01 GMT
Convincing women to pander to men by denying feminism ("I'm no feminist, but I believe in equal blah, blah...") was a truly remarkable snow job, and just shows how submissive (or maybe malleable?) women continue to be. Exactly! That's what I was driving at when I said it's treated like a dirty word, but you were much more clear and eloquent in how you said it. So frustrating - and sad - that so many women are so quick to dismiss feminism because it's "too aggressive." Oh, the nerve of wanting to be legally equal!
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
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Jun 26, 2014 14:35:07 GMT
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Post by janeliz on Jul 25, 2014 0:09:09 GMT
Yes. Absolutely.
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Post by doxielady on Jul 25, 2014 0:10:52 GMT
Yes, Proudly!
I think some of the hesitance for some to say that they are feminists derives from those that use phrases like "Femi-Nazi" to convey that feminists are somehow Anti-men or Anti-family. Which couldn't be farther from the truth. Some have used it as a dirty word or a term of derision.
I'm appreciative of all of the women who have struggled and fought for our rights through the years. We WERE property at one time and it took a lot of time and passion to get us to where we are today.
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Post by padresfan619 on Jul 25, 2014 0:11:22 GMT
I think a lot of people are feminists without even realizing it. And feminism doesn't mean you can't have traditional values, you're more than welcome to that choice. Just as any other woman can be a scientist, an engineer or a professional chef. It's about the freedom to make choices for yourself, not to be pigeon-holed into one way of life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 0:14:02 GMT
I hate my WiFi. It goes off all of a sudden and I always lose my post.
No. I am not a feminist.
The reason why women like me don't want to be labeled a feminist is not because we don't support equality for women. It's because the feminist movement supports things that we don't agree with and is sometimes very militant. We don't want to be affiliated with that.
I also consider my husband to be the head of our household, because I believe in the biblical definition of marriage. However, he is very considerate and consults me on all decisions. I have had very derisive comments made to me by other women because of those beliefs. To me, true feminism supports the rights of all women to live according to the beliefs that make *them* happy.
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Post by lumo on Jul 25, 2014 0:16:18 GMT
Absolutely. It's important for me and it's important for my daughter. I don't want her to grow up with the idea that she's somehow less-than because she doesn't happen to have a penis.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jul 25, 2014 0:19:02 GMT
YES!!! And proud!
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Post by donna on Jul 25, 2014 0:50:53 GMT
How can I explain myself better?
Am I glad that things are better for women than they used to be? Yes. Do I want to be paid as same as a man that is doing the same job that I am doing? Yes. As a teacher, I am paid the same as my male counterparts.
I am the only female in my household and because of this I see feminism from a different side. My dh attended the Citadel before they had to admit women. I know the whole argument about why the Citadel and VMI had to allow women to come because they accepted federal money, but those two colleges were the last two all male schools in this country. If we wanted true equality, then we should then tell the many all female schools that they now have to stop being all female. Men deserve the right to an all male education just as much as women do.
As women we have a multitude of choices open to us. We can choose to be SAH moms, work part time, or work outside the home. For men, it is expected that they will work. Period. While I have known some SAH dads, they are not as common as SAH moms because there is a big downside to this in the workplace. Future employers are not going to look on a SAHD in the same way they will a SAHM.
As a school teacher, I see our boys suffering because they are expected to behave like girls in the classroom. It is especially bad when the teacher just does not get that boys and girls learn and behave differently. Boys enjoy coming to my class because I get them. Drop out rates for boys are higher for girls because schools are designed for students who can sit still and be quiet. I fear they are going to increase even more because of our need to "teach to the test".
There are many other examples that I could go into, but I won't. Like I said at the beginning of my post, I am glad things have improved for women. I just feel that in many ways it has come at a cost to the men in our society.
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Post by Amelia Bedelia on Jul 25, 2014 0:57:14 GMT
I hate my WiFi. It goes off all of a sudden and I always lose my post. No. I am not a feminist. To me, true feminism supports the rights of all women to live according to the beliefs that make *them* happy. So if that's what feminism means to you, why would you want to deny being a part of that? It sounds like an admirable goal to me. I don't shy away from being an environmentalist just because there are some extremists who think we should all ditch our cars and live off the land. I do what I can to help and support a cause I believe in and I do it proudly, and I assume that I won't be lumped in with extremists because that would be silly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 0:59:57 GMT
This is what feminism means to me. Therefore, it's why I consider myself a feminist.
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Post by tinafb on Jul 25, 2014 1:03:57 GMT
I hate my WiFi. It goes off all of a sudden and I always lose my post. No. I am not a feminist. The reason why women like me don't want to be labeled a feminist is not because we don't support equality for women. It's because the feminist movement supports things that we don't agree with and is sometimes very militant. We don't want to be affiliated with that. I also consider my husband to be the head of our household, because I believe in the biblical definition of marriage. However, he is very considerate and consults me on all decisions. I have had very derisive comments made to me by other women because of those beliefs. To me, true feminism supports the rights of all women to live according to the beliefs that make *them* happy. Feminist, women's studies student, Christian in a Biblical marriage, liberal democrat. It all works together in my life. I know who I am. I don't really care what other people think of the labels I put on myself. When people think of the word "Christian", they probably don't think of people like me. I sure as heck don't want to be associated with some of the more obnoxious Christians out there who spread what I interpret as hate. It disgusts me to be lumped into the group with some of the loudest Christians in our world. Yet I'm not ever ashamed to call myself a Christian because I believe in the basic and fundamental tenets associated with that particular label. I view feminism the same way. I will never be ashamed to call myself a feminist because of the actions of a few in the movement. They don't define me.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jul 25, 2014 1:07:03 GMT
I graduated from college in 1980 and it was post heyday of the feminist movement of the '60-70's. So, sure I consider myself a capable individual able to take care of business - whatever that may be.
I had lunch with friends who are contemporaries and a particular topic came up about expectations that *some* younger women have for men today like "push" gifts and husbands taking time off from work for every well care baby visit to accompany a SAHM to the pediatrician. I think we felt that women have made great strides but maybe in some ways taking backward steps. Not sure if that has to do with the feminism or entitlement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 1:07:14 GMT
I understand what you're saying Tina...you've definitely given me something to think about.
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 25, 2014 1:09:04 GMT
Absolutely.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 1:11:07 GMT
I had lunch with friends who are contemporaries and a particular topic came up about expectations that *some* younger women have for men today like "push" gifts and husbands taking time off from work for every well care baby visit to accompany a SAHM to the pediatrician. I think we felt that women have made great strides but maybe in some ways taking backward steps. Not sure if that has to do with the feminism or entitlement Push gifts aren't something DH and I did, but DH does come to almost all kid/baby doctor appointments with me and he also came to my midwife appointments. Not because I'm entitled or incapable, but because it's important to HIM that he be there for those things. That's what makes him an involved father. ETA: he's also lucky that he has a flexible job where he can take time to do things like that. I'm sure if he had to request time off/schedule it, and that time was limited, he wouldn't be able to come to those appointments like he does.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 1:13:41 GMT
Oh, I think that has everything to do with entitlement and selfishness, (ETA: if they're demanding it.)
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Post by Belia on Jul 25, 2014 1:35:45 GMT
I happily and loudly consider myself a feminist. I am married to a feminist husband and am trying my damndest to raise 2 feminist boys.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 25, 2014 1:38:32 GMT
Oh, I think that has everything to do with entitlement and selfishness, (ETA: if they're demanding it.) I've heard of getting a special little something like a charm for a charm bracelet, but have never heard the term "push gift." So I asked Mr. Google and after reading about it, it turns out that (a) it isn't a little thing anymore, it seems like it is supposed to be relatively expensive gift of jewelry and (b) it is expected. Seems like that is entitlement more than anything else.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jul 25, 2014 1:39:19 GMT
ashley my husband didn't even know where the pediatrician's office was. Trust me, it didn't mean our son's health was not important , it didn't mean he was an not an involved dad. Back then, if a man left work for a well care visit (not an emergency or serious sickness) it would not fly with the employer. Times have changed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 1:43:16 GMT
No, but I am a Humanist.
L
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 2:26:01 GMT
ashley my husband didn't even know where the pediatrician's office was. Trust me, it didn't mean our son's health was not important , it didn't mean he was an not an involved dad. Back then, if a man left work for a well care visit (not an emergency or serious sickness) it would not fly with the employer. Times have changed. And I think that is a GOOD thing. Not bad. Both parents should be involved in aspects even as mundane as a well check. Not sure how that could be considered a step back though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 2:29:53 GMT
Times don't change magically. Times change because people take action. It's more accepted for fathers to attend things like that because back then, there were fathers who decided it was important enough to them that they were going to stand up and do it, even though it wasn't culturally very accepted. And gradually, things become accepted.
Just like "times change" with women's rights, minority rights, gay rights, etc.. It's because people who believe in something stand up for it. Like feminism - you (general you) can disavow the "militant" feminists of the past if you like, but because of their actions, we have infinitely more choices available to us now. More opportunity to live our lives as we choose, which is what feminism is all about at its core. (There is, obviously, still a long way to go.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 2:44:04 GMT
I don't know. I believe in equal rights, equal opportunity, and equal pay with no regard to gender. Because of this I always considered myself a feminist. However, I raised boys. I taught them to hold doors for women and to always give up their seat to a woman. I have told them that when they get married, they should speak to the girl's family and ask for their blessing before they propose. It's these little traditional things that make my friends say that I am not really a feminist, so who knows? I think those things are traditions and show respect. And are fantastic things to instill in our sons. My dad who is 65 STILL opens my car door for me, and he was raised at a time when women and minorities were thought of as beneath the ideal white male. His mother taught him respect, just like you're doing.
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Post by Tamhugh on Jul 25, 2014 2:44:58 GMT
I hate my WiFi. It goes off all of a sudden and I always lose my post. No. I am not a feminist. The reason why women like me don't want to be labeled a feminist is not because we don't support equality for women. It's because the feminist movement supports things that we don't agree with and is sometimes very militant. We don't want to be affiliated with that. I also consider my husband to be the head of our household, because I believe in the biblical definition of marriage. However, he is very considerate and consults me on all decisions. I have had very derisive comments made to me by other women because of those beliefs. To me, true feminism supports the rights of all women to live according to the beliefs that make *them* happy. I think this is where I stand. I don't like a militant stance on anything. I want to embrace a feminism that says it is ok to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or to be a breastfeeding or a bottle feeding mom. I want the feminist "leaders" to say that it is ok to take a Biblical view of marriage or to be a Michele Duggar and have 19 children, or to be single by choice, or childless by choice. Unless we, as women, are willing to embrace values that are very different than our own, we aren't really about equality. I think most of us second guess every decision we make as wives and mothers, and in my experience, that pressure comes from other women and not from men. As to my comment about wanting my sons to ask for their future in-laws' blessing, I don't see it as ownership at all. When I married my husband, I married his whole family and he married mine, for better or worse. We both came from close families and it was important to both of us to marry someone that fit in well and made each other's families our own. I see asking for a parent's blessing as a way of asking to be a part of that family and not to ask for ownership of their daughter. ETA I think I really like Tina's attitude. I need to learn to embrace that more for myself.
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Post by ~summer~ on Jul 25, 2014 2:46:01 GMT
Heck yeah I do
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Post by chances on Jul 25, 2014 3:01:10 GMT
How can I explain myself better? Am I glad that things are better for women than they used to be? Yes. Do I want to be paid as same as a man that is doing the same job that I am doing? Yes. As a teacher, I am paid the same as my male counterparts. I am the only female in my household and because of this I see feminism from a different side. My dh attended the Citadel before they had to admit women. I know the whole argument about why the Citadel and VMI had to allow women to come because they accepted federal money, but those two colleges were the last two all male schools in this country. If we wanted true equality, then we should then tell the many all female schools that they now have to stop being all female. Men deserve the right to an all male education just as much as women do. There are still all male colleges. No one is preventing them from a single sex education.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 3:04:36 GMT
I don't consider myself a feminist. But, those I know personally who do consider themselves feminist are on the male hating/ sahm shouldn't be an option for any woman end of the spectrum. That isn't something I can identify with.
I do believe women should have equal rights, equal protection,
As far as the Citadel issue... I do believe we should have all male and all female universities. But, the Citadel is more than a university. For a few select career paths it is the ONLY way into that career. By closing the Citadel (and other military universities) to women then women are blocked from those career paths. That isn't right.
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Post by padresfan619 on Jul 25, 2014 3:08:55 GMT
A male hating "feminist" is not a feminist. Discriminating against men/boys is misandry. Feminists want equality for all people.
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Post by winniegirl on Jul 25, 2014 3:21:22 GMT
Yes, 100% a feminist. 60++ here and my generation (and many before) fought long and hard and are still fighting for equality. Just because we are all created equal does not mean we are treated as equals. One example if I remember correctly, birth control pills weren't even legal for unmarried women in this country until the 70s. Donna, You are wrong about the Citadel and VMI. There are certainly other all male schools - Hampden-Sydney here in VA is one. I disagree with most everything else you said too but have to keep my blood pressure in check so I'm gonna leave it at that.
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