Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 11:30:10 GMT
Making a thread so we can discuss without having to do the spoiler alert in every post. SO CONTINUE AT YOUR OWN WILL IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE SERIES!!!!! I just finished watching the episode that has Brendan's interviews. I really am just speechless!!!!!!! Just how in the HELL is any of that admissible? ?? Time and time again he says he did not do it! It is plain as day he was coerced. GAH! And now to see th evidence box was tampered with! I just am not believing what I am seeing! I understand that those living in the area may have more knowledge of the Avery family but even so, after seeing all of this, I just don't understand how one can still stand on the side of the Sheriff's department. I am shocked that they have not been brought up on criminal charges!
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Post by quinlove on Jan 6, 2016 12:16:48 GMT
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but I believe the judge was corrupt too. And not ruling out that he was in on the whole framing job too ! There was just way too much money involved if he was found not quilty.
My gosh, he had such great lawyers, but their hands were tied at every turn. I will probably watch it all again to just rehash it all.
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rickmer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,123
Jul 1, 2014 20:20:18 GMT
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Post by rickmer on Jan 6, 2016 12:56:08 GMT
lots of flags all over the place in this situation. questioning of the boy was just ridiculous. he was all over the place and NEVER should have been questioned even once without his parent AND a lawyer (preferably NOT that dink he got stuck with first.... my god!).
the manitawoc police should not have been anywhere near anything to do with the investigation, just to *ensure* there was no question of impropriety.
wondering why each appeal was reviewed by the same judge that they had for their case? not a legal expert but thinking "fresh eyes" and an open mind would be fair.
and when i heard quotes from jurors about their worries of repercussions if they found him not guilty or a hung jury... well that is the biggest concern of all for me. i think if jurors came forward and said "we saw all the evidence presented and we are confident in our verdict" i would feel like the defendants got a fair shake.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 13:38:07 GMT
Ok:
* Coerced interview of Brendan * Tampered evidence discovered from previous Avery case * More than one person having access to Teresa's voicemail account * Brendan's brother making heresay comments ON THE STAND that the judge does not strike from jury * the discovery of Teresa's vehicle on the salvage yard in 20 minutes * The call in of the plates by the cop BEFORE the vehicle was found
B.L.O.W.S. my mind!!!!!!!!!!
Sure there are coincidences in life, BUT when there are this many AND in a court of law....it is just not possible.
I keep seeing reports outside of the documentary that the public is not being presented with the whole picture. But I have yet to see any FACTUAL smoking gun evidence.
Is it just me?
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Post by quinlove on Jan 6, 2016 14:05:18 GMT
Merrick, I think they both got a very 'unfair shake' to say the least.
Allpeas - Nope, not just you by a long shot.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Jan 6, 2016 14:26:38 GMT
Understand the information presented on this series is edited and not all the facts are being presented.
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Post by krc11 on Jan 6, 2016 14:58:11 GMT
If I'm understanding it, doesn't the producer has ties to the Avery family. What's the old clique, Just because you see it on TV (or the internet) doesn't make it true. Don't believe everything you see on this show is accurate. It is designed to get an audience and it is successfully doing that.
Isn't this the one where the reporter that was coming to talk to Avery about the first case ended up dead. Yeah, coincidence. You just don't have that kind bad luck twice. Especially not when you are rich.
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Post by krc11 on Jan 6, 2016 15:01:21 GMT
And don't forget the guy is an admitted animal abuser. Who throws a family pet (cat) over a bonfire? What do they say... animial abusers grow up to be...
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Deleted
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Apr 27, 2024 13:36:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 15:08:29 GMT
And don't forget the guy is an admitted animal abuser. Who throws a family pet (cat) over a bonfire? What do they say... animial abusers grow up to be... I do not in the least disagree that Avery is no saint. BUT where is concrete evidence that he committed this crime? i would think that the Sheriff's Dept. would go a LONG way to make sure they did not look complicit in questionable activity again in regards to the conviction process. There are SO MANY MORE questions than answers concerning the murder and Avery's involvement. How can you forget that? I personally feel like I am being punked just watching this!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 15:15:37 GMT
Understand the information presented on this series is edited and not all the facts are being presented. I will admit I did a quick internet search for other information as I keep seeing this point brought up. But again, where is the additional information that presents a more clear picture? If you are speaking about his repeated calls to her or showing up in a towel, I read that. absolutely it is creepy. But WHERE is the blood evidence? If he killed her as they say he did, WHERE is the DNA evidence of that from Avery, Brendan or Teresa? If I am missing something, I would like to know. Is there some other evidence?
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Post by anonrefugee on Jan 6, 2016 15:18:45 GMT
Understand the information presented on this series is edited and not all the facts are being presented. I read parts of this were originally created as a "PR" piece to promote his innocence, and the states case or evidence is not given equal exposure.
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Post by arielsmom on Jan 6, 2016 15:26:46 GMT
I personally feel like I am being punked just watching this! Bingo! You are being punked. Think about the motive behind the show. It is entertainment, and now there will be two successful producers who will go on to make more shows. They are in it to offer another view, and bring about water cooler discussion. They can edit the piece to show what ever they want it to be. Why did they wait 10 years to finally bring the show to the public? Wouldn't it have been better to air it before all the appeals had been used? Several weeks ago I had been able to find info regarding Dassey's confession, but now I get 23 pages of info about this show, so i can not share the link I found. Any way, several months after TH disappearance, Brendan was at a friends house and told him about being part of the disappearance. The friend told his mother, who called the police, who started the investigation with Brendan. They used the info Brendan told the friend during the Brendan's questioning. For those of you that are falling hook, line and sinker for the show, there is a place where you can make a donation to the Avery/Dassey cause. They hope to use the money for a PI, and a lawyer, but anything that is left over will go to the commissary fund for Avery, according to the original request for money. So step up and send them money, that will help them.
PS: The Gov issued a statement yesterday that states that he offers NO pardons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 15:34:47 GMT
I have been involved in a criminal trial before. I was the victim and testified on behalf of the State. I in no way consider myself or would call myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination. But I do have experience how these trials work and how evidence is collected and presented.
Please explain to me if you are so assured of his guilt, where is the blood evidence? The DA has painted a horrific, messy crime scene. Yet there is no evidence to show that happened the way they present it.
If there is evidence out there that refutes what is presented in this documentary, then where is it?
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Post by arielsmom on Jan 6, 2016 15:42:41 GMT
It is a TV show, why should any one have to present the other side? The producers decided which side they were showing. They edited 18 months into 10 hours. Things get left out. I would not expect that any one is "going to come forward" with the other side, as that happened during the trial, which was televised live in our area.
Order the transcripts and read them, they will have more info for you.
I think the show has made people discuss the case, too bad it didn't do that 10 years ago. I want someone to ask the producers why the time gap.
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Post by peano on Jan 6, 2016 15:51:36 GMT
It is a TV show, why should any one have to present the other side? The producers decided which side they were showing. They edited 18 months into 10 hours. Things get left out. I would not expect that any one is "going to come forward" with the other side, as that happened during the trial, which was televised live in our area. Order the transcripts and read them, they will have more info for you. I think the show has made people discuss the case, too bad it didn't do that 10 years ago. I want someone to ask the producers why the time gap. Time gap, LOL. What is the big deal about that? There could be any number of reasons--finances, having to compile, research, review, edit, write thousands of hours of info after following the case to its conclusion, do final edits, shop the series around to at least 2 other cable networks (correct me if I'm wrong--HBO & Showtime I believe.) I don't even understand what point you're trying to make.
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Jan 6, 2016 16:02:47 GMT
I have read just about everything that is currently available to read on this case, and that includes the evidence that Ken Kratz says was excluded. Nope, sorry, the county investigators and the prosecution presented a dirty case, helped along by very sketchy scientific testing and judge that did about everything he could to help the prosecution get a conviction. Both Avery and Dassey's trials should have at the very least ended in mistrials, and they should have been allowed appeals.
For those trying to defend the prosecution and investigators and the counties involved - how much of the documentary have you watched? How much of the actual proceedings and evidence have you read? This wasn't two women coming along eight years later and putting together some interviews and reenactments. They were there right after Avery was arrested for the murder, moved to the area, were at every trial day and documented every twist and turn, and spent ten years of their life on this documentary.
I said it in the other thread, Avery is absolutely not a great guy. He absolutely should have been on the list of possible suspects, but he shouldn't have been the only one on the list.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 16:08:13 GMT
I personally feel like I am being punked just watching this! Bingo! You are being punked. Think about the motive behind the show. It is entertainment, and now there will be two successful producers who will go on to make more shows. They are in it to offer another view, and bring about water cooler discussion. They can edit the piece to show what ever they want it to be. Why did they wait 10 years to finally bring the show to the public? Wouldn't it have been better to air it before all the appeals had been used? Several weeks ago I had been able to find info regarding Dassey's confession, but now I get 23 pages of info about this show, so i can not share the link I found. Any way, several months after TH disappearance, Brendan was at a friends house and told him about being part of the disappearance. The friend told his mother, who called the police, who started the investigation with Brendan. They used the info Brendan told the friend during the Brendan's questioning. For those of you that are falling hook, line and sinker for the show, there is a place where you can make a donation to the Avery/Dassey cause. They hope to use the money for a PI, and a lawyer, but anything that is left over will go to the commissary fund for Avery, according to the original request for money. So step up and send them money, that will help them.
PS: The Gov issued a statement yesterday that states that he offers NO pardons. Please discuss with me just one issue. Can you not concede that the Manitowc (hope I spelled that right) Sheriff's Dept. had a HUGE conflict of interest with this case in regards to his prior conviction AND the civil suit? How can their involvement NOT taint this case?
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Post by jovifan on Jan 6, 2016 16:09:49 GMT
I don't think this is true at all.
I don't think you are thinking of the correct case, that didn't happen here.
What I heard is it took that long to 'sell' it to someone who wanted to put their name behind it.
From what I understand (law enforcement in my family) that I have talked to about this, just because someone has their throat slashed or are stabbed doesn't mean they bleed a lot. Sure some do, but there have been videos they watch at work, as part of keeping up on their knowledge, that shows people who haven't bled much after having horrific things happen to them. I was told that she could have been killed in the bed and the sheets and mattress pad could have soaked it all up and since it was burned, nothing showed on the mattress. And who knows how well the Sherriff's Dept investigated dug into that part. Blacklighting the mattress (or whatever they spray on it). You assume that was done, but who the heck knows with THAT Sherriff Dept. I know someone who read Brendan's deposition and he was so detailed in his information, written out, that someone who wasn't there wouldn't know some of the things that he knew. Who told me this didn't disclose the info to me, so I don't know what was detailed. I still believe they are both guilty. But the Sherriff's department did a less than stellar job handling it. A lot still doesn't make sense.
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Post by arielsmom on Jan 6, 2016 16:22:34 GMT
Yes, there was a conflict with that department. That was the original department that was looking for her, when she was reported missing. At some point, it was turned over to another department.
The jury was brought in from Dane County, several hours away.
The trial was aired live, I had retired the week before it started, and did watch some/had it on, while working on paperwork.
Avery had settled his civil suit with the county before the disappearance of TH. He had been suing for 30+ million and settled for $444,000.
Why aren't lawyers rushing forward to help Avery now?
I will continue to read this thread, but still try to stay away from the key board. It is making for an interesting discussion, and we will all need to draw our own conclusions.
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Post by AN on Jan 6, 2016 16:25:17 GMT
Understand the information presented on this series is edited and not all the facts are being presented. That's true in a trial too. Just food for thought. I don't disagree with you that of course film-makers are going to put a spin on it... and so do attorneys and law enforcement.
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Post by Megan on Jan 6, 2016 16:48:09 GMT
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,578
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Jan 6, 2016 16:48:23 GMT
Yes, there was a conflict with that department. That was the original department that was looking for her, when she was reported missing. At some point, it was turned over to another department. The jury was brought in from Dane County, several hours away. The trial was aired live, I had retired the week before it started, and did watch some/had it on, while working on paperwork. Avery had settled his civil suit with the county before the disappearance of TH. He had been suing for 30+ million and settled for $444,000. Why aren't lawyers rushing forward to help Avery now? I will continue to read this thread, but still try to stay away from the key board. It is making for an interesting discussion, and we will all need to draw our own conclusions. You do know that even after the investigation was turned over to Calumet county, Mantiwoc county sheriff authorities Sgt. Colburn and Lt. Lenk spent a great deal of time on the Avery property during the initial investigation, right? Colburn and Lenk, who both had information that could have helped exonerate Avery in his rape conviction years earlier than it actually happened, and who had both been deposed in Avery's lawsuit against the county in the weeks before Theresa Halbach's murder. Lenk was the one that suddenly found the Toyota key on the floor in Avery's bedroom, even after the Calumet authorities had searched the room a couple of times already. How convenient. Lenk was also on the property several months later, after Brendan Dassey's multiple conflicting confessions. The search then focused on the garage, and it was initially searched a couple of times. Then Lenk shows up, and the next day an incriminating bullet fragment is found on the floor under a compressor in the garage, where it had again been missed before Lenk visited. That was, though, the only Theresa Halbach DNA evidence they found anywhere in the garage. Nothing linking her to his trailer was ever found. Avery didn't settle his suit before he was arrested. He had to settle it for the 400K after he was arrested to hire decent defense lawyers. But at the time of the arrest the multi-million dollar lawsuit against the county, the one the county's insurance provider said they wouldn't cover if the county lost, was still going forward.
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Post by peano on Jan 6, 2016 16:54:32 GMT
Yes, there was a conflict with that department. That was the original department that was looking for her, when she was reported missing. At some point, it was turned over to another department. The jury was brought in from Dane County, several hours away. The trial was aired live, I had retired the week before it started, and did watch some/had it on, while working on paperwork. Avery had settled his civil suit with the county before the disappearance of TH. He had been suing for 30+ million and settled for $444,000. Why aren't lawyers rushing forward to help Avery now? I will continue to read this thread, but still try to stay away from the key board. It is making for an interesting discussion, and we will all need to draw our own conclusions. Why aren't lawyers rushing forward to help Avery now? Because he's exhausted all his appeals, that's why. Even if you haven't seen the doc, I'm surprised you didn't know that. Brendan Dassey's case has been taken on by an advocacy group and has been submitted to the Wisconsin federal court after exhausting his appeals at the state level.
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Post by peano on Jan 6, 2016 17:00:10 GMT
Yes, there was a conflict with that department. That was the original department that was looking for her, when she was reported missing. At some point, it was turned over to another department. The jury was brought in from Dane County, several hours away. The trial was aired live, I had retired the week before it started, and did watch some/had it on, while working on paperwork. Avery had settled his civil suit with the county before the disappearance of TH. He had been suing for 30+ million and settled for $444,000. Why aren't lawyers rushing forward to help Avery now? I will continue to read this thread, but still try to stay away from the key board. It is making for an interesting discussion, and we will all need to draw our own conclusions. I believe in the documentary they stated Avery settled his lawsuit after his arrest to pay for an attorney. Is that not accurate? Yes.
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Deleted
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Apr 27, 2024 13:36:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 17:50:09 GMT
Yes, there was a conflict with that department. That was the original department that was looking for her, when she was reported missing. At some point, it was turned over to another department. The jury was brought in from Dane County, several hours away. The trial was aired live, I had retired the week before it started, and did watch some/had it on, while working on paperwork. Avery had settled his civil suit with the county before the disappearance of TH. He had been suing for 30+ million and settled for $444,000. Why aren't lawyers rushing forward to help Avery now? I will continue to read this thread, but still try to stay away from the key board. It is making for an interesting discussion, and we will all need to draw our own conclusions. That's a whole bunch of misinformation.
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ModChick
Drama Llama
True North Strong and Free
Posts: 5,060
Jun 26, 2014 23:57:06 GMT
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Post by ModChick on Jan 6, 2016 18:04:00 GMT
Omg that poor kid. I'm watching #4 when he's telling his mom I was guessing, just like my homework. I 100% believe that he guessed and with the leading questions, what did you do to her head...cut her hair...cut her throat...those were all guesses because they kept asking what did you do until the investigator finally said you shot her in the head! Then the prosecution made their case off those guesses and none of that really happened since it came out of a (mentally slower) kids imagination!
The footage in this documentary is right there, black and white...sickening what the county did.
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Post by quinlove on Jan 6, 2016 18:20:22 GMT
The governor doesn't give pardons in Wisconsin? ?? Oh My Gosh - how shocking!!!!!! NOT
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Post by tinydogmafia on Jan 6, 2016 18:29:01 GMT
Three things this show has taught me:
1. Never, ever speak to the police without your lawyer present.
2. If you are poor in America, and accused of a crime, you cannot afford a defense that can help you adequately.
3. That the presumption of innocence until proven guilty is a myth.
No matter which side of the fence you find yourself on here, I would imagine everyone can agree that Brendan, with his IQ of 69 I believe it was, was questioned and coerced. It's all on tape. It's not even a theory. You can see it, watch it and hear it. It is disgusting.
Regardless of if you think Steven Avery killed Teresa, there are so many holes in the defense I can't believe he was convicted. Maybe he did kill her. IDK for certain. But I do know that he could not have possibly assaulted her in his bedroom, stabbed her in his bedroom and then shot her in his garage and somehow magically made every single tiny piece of DNA evidence vanish. I don't believe that for a second. No blood on the mattress? The walls? The floor? Anywhere? But on ONE bullet that was found how many months later and after how many searches? I do not believe that theory for one second.
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Post by stingfan on Jan 6, 2016 18:29:32 GMT
I read an interview with the filmmakers. They requested access to all parties of the case - prosecution, victim, defense, etc. The Avery family was the only one who took them up on it. So, of course it's going to seemed swayed in their direction. No one else wanted to or was willing to participate. “We wrote a letter to Ken Kratz saying who we were, and that we were interested in including as many points of view as possible in the series,” Ricciardi said. “We offered [Kratz] the opportunity. We offered it to the Halbach family. We offered it to Penny Beernsten, who was the victim in the 1985 case, Tom Kocourek who was the Sheriff, Dennis Vogel, and other members of law enforcement.” Interview
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blue tulip
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Jun 25, 2014 20:53:57 GMT
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Post by blue tulip on Jan 6, 2016 18:31:03 GMT
I don't understand why people think the searchers finding the vehicle was so hinky. when you look at the aerial shot of the junkyard, they entered at one end and immediately started to go down the first cars..where you would normally start, at the beginning of the yard. if your intent was to search row by row, then this is where you would start. and they found the car when they got to the end of that first row and saw some vehicles parked up around a pond ridge and checked it out. I don't think it was that strange that they were the ones given a camera either, as many people were already considering avery a suspect and they were going to search his lot, so there may be a higher chance of finding something and they'd want to be prepared.
I've heard that mom/daughter search team had some relation to the police, but still- they started at the beginning of the lot, on a row that wasn't very long because of buildings in front of it, it's not really that surprising they found it quickly.
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