Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 2:20:35 GMT
So what was your position on the Democrats in Illinois (or was it Wisconsin) who fled the state rather than allow a vote to proceed on an issue they knew they's lose? I could be wrong, but I seem to recall you giving the "runners" your full support even though they were looking to prevent a vote they knew they'd lose. I had no opinion on that issue - it wasn't my state and I didn't know enough to put up an opinion on a public message board. But you can go ahead and fabricate whatever you want to try to suit you - it is pure fantasy. They were from Wisconsin and they ran to Illinois. I lived in Illinois and I remember it well. And I remember who cheered them on. Don't for a minute think that I am "confused" or don't understand what is going on. I get it. The issues aren't the same, but the party line is. ETA: And with that, I believe my participation is over in any and all things political until this season is over. You can all sit around in a circle and enjoy yourselves because no one is going to change anyone's opinion and frankly we are all screwed.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Jun 23, 2016 2:25:36 GMT
I had no opinion on that issue - it wasn't my state and I didn't know enough to put up an opinion on a public message board. But you can go ahead and fabricate whatever you want to try to suit you - it is pure fantasy. They were from Wisconsin and they ran to Illinois. I lived in Illinois and I remember it well. And I remember who cheered them on. Don't for a minute think that I am "confused" or don't understand what is going on. I get it. The issues aren't the same, but the party line is. Okay. You remember it. It was state politics. I didn't participate. What is going on now is Federal Politics and the representatives that I voted in are not able to do their jobs because others won't let them. I have a valid say in that. If someone else prevents Virginia federal representatives - Senate and House - from doing their jobs, I have every right and SHOULD comment on it. State officials in Wisconsin - not my state, not my vote. I may have an opinion, but it isn't my vote being spit on. The difference is clear to me. I'm glad you understand how the two are different.
|
|
|
Post by epeanymous on Jun 23, 2016 2:54:28 GMT
Did anyone else read the New Yorker article a while ago on the intensity gap theory? It was about how some specific policy issues where national polls skew in one direction nevertheless do not really follow the national polls because the majority feels less strongly about the issue than the minority. I think gun rights have been like that -- the majority of people have polled views that are fairly well-documented, but the minority that is supportive of fairly absolute gun rights feels much more strongly about that position. I think part of what you are seeing here is that the people who are concerned about gun availability are starting -- at least a segment of them -- to feel as strongly about that position as people who advocate fairly absolute gun rights feel about theirs.
|
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Jun 23, 2016 4:08:02 GMT
Senator Sanders was there.
|
|
|
Post by blondiec47 on Jun 23, 2016 10:39:58 GMT
I think her point is, and i could be wrong, that people who are outraged by loss of life from guns accept the loss of life from abortion. The right to bear arms is a Constitutionally Protected right. Abortion is a tangent on the 14th amendment. I get your point, but want to comment on blondie's post. Thank you Lauren, that is my point. The hypocrisy just gets to me, life is life (and ftr I am against the death penalty) I was in the camp to just sit back and enjoy the show, but lately I just cant take it.
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Jun 23, 2016 11:41:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jun 23, 2016 11:53:30 GMT
There are far more abortions that there are people killed by guns in this country - according to the info I can find there are more than 600,000 abortions each year in this country that is insane - there are not that many murders by guns in this country that number is around 12,000 which is still insanely high but not even close. there are more than 21,000 suicides by guy a year. And yet, those screaming loudest for gun control are also the most staunch supporters of abortion. Boggles my mind. I think for many people who support abortion there is a difference where life begins. I have always found it boggling how you can be anti-abortion, and pro-death penalty. I throw gun control in there to as it is an issue that has to do with the sanctity of life. I think there is some common ground on gun control. I think we can bridge that gap. I don't know anyone who is pro mass murder.
|
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jun 23, 2016 12:33:16 GMT
And yet, those screaming loudest for gun control are also the most staunch supporters of abortion. Boggles my mind. I think for many people who support abortion there is a difference where life begins. I have always found it boggling how you can be anti-abortion, and pro-death penalty. I throw gun control in there to as it is an issue that has to do with the sanctity of life. I think there is some common ground on gun control. I think we can bridge that gap. I don't know anyone who is pro mass murder. Yes, we can rail about the ludicrousy - and moral failings - of those who support both reproductive choice and gun control, but there are other examples of splintered thinking among "life" issues (capital punishment, euthanasia). The doctrine of the Catholic Church is consistent; the personal philosophies of most people are not nearly as consistent. I'm always cautious when I see these kinds of arguments - castigating people for one belief simply because of another belief. The logicians would call it a fallacy of inconsistency (false equivalence). And lumping gun control into the spectrum of "life" issues also seems fraught. Not necessarily wrong; just fraught. But I need to think about that and I'm late for work! [But I know for damn sure that none of us is considering making murder (or suicide or accidental death) legal, which is REALLY the life issue. But that was your point, right? You just used fewer words!]
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Jun 23, 2016 13:07:20 GMT
And there's this. It's from Maddowblog, which is a left wing site, but I encourage you to google it. Yep, this happened:
But to fully appreciate the scope of yesterday’s drama, it’s important to note how Republican leaders tried to end the Democratic protest. Around 10 p.m. (ET), the Speaker had apparently seen enough – the sit-in began about 11 hours earlier – and he brought up an unrelated measure for a vote. But not just any unrelated measure: Ryan pushed a bill that would have blocked the Obama administration’s “fiduciary rule,” which improves investment safeguards for consumers. Let that sink in for a moment. In the face of the deadliest mass shooting in American history, House Democrats demanded a debate on possible gun reforms, to which House Republicans responded with a favor for Wall Street lobbyists. Historian Kevin Kruse joked last night, “House Dems stage a sit-in for gun control and the GOP pushes it aside to repeal Wall Street regulations? Even [Aaron] Sorkin would think that was too much.”
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 14:48:34 GMT
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 14:53:00 GMT
And yet, those screaming loudest for gun control are also the most staunch supporters of abortion. Boggles my mind. I think for many people who support abortion there is a difference where life begins. I have always found it boggling how you can be anti-abortion, and pro-death penalty. I throw gun control in there to as it is an issue that has to do with the sanctity of life. I think there is some common ground on gun control. I think we can bridge that gap. I don't know anyone who is pro mass murder. It's simple for me. One is guilty and the other is not. Although now I am rethinking a little on the death penalty thing. Not totally, but some. It has to do with being vegan, not regarding anything said here.
|
|
|
Post by scrapcat on Jun 23, 2016 15:37:40 GMT
The house speaker had the cameras turned off. Call his office and tell them you want then turned back on. Direct number 202-224-3121 I tried this number and got the Congressional switchboard, which wants you to choose House or Senate. Then, after you choose, the system wants you to input your zip code, which will give you the number for your specific Rep. Googled. Here's his office number. Phone: (202) 225-3031 Of course, you'll get an automated voice mail thing. But you can leave a message. And GREAT NEWS! Speaker Ryan himself says on the greeting that he wants the House to work for the people who sent their Representatives to Washington! I left him a message requesting that he switch the cameras and microphones back on, since being able to see what's happening in the House chamber is what would work best for me, and I urge everyone else to contact him, too. I actually got a person. He took my name, I voiced my opinion and which side I support. I use Everytown.org to send me texts to keep me updated on what's going on. I've made quite a few calls/emails this week.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 16:17:00 GMT
"Taxation without representation" was the phrase that started this country. And here we are all these many years later facing a form of that very situation that started a revolution.
What is happening ,in too many cases, if one party has the majority and a big enough of a majority they are shutting down the minority. The majority runs the table and they don't want any input from the minority. Compromise is a dirty word.
If you happen to be a member of the minority party then your elected official is being shut out for no other reason then they are a member of the minority party. Which means I'm paying taxes but because my elected respresentative is a member of the minority party I have no representation in the government.
That is what happened in Wisconsin, that is what is happening in other states that has a big enough majority of one party, and that is what is happening in Congress.
And it's wrong. It's wrong when the Democrats do it and it's wrong when the Republicans do it. Because when it's done the majority party is taking away the representation of people who are members of the minority party and who are paying taxes.
Taxation without representation.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 16:54:48 GMT
I applaud the sit-in! I see no reason for humans to own assault weapons, nuclear bombs and other WMD. "What if," "how about," "so-and-so does it," and "neerer neener" just doesn't work for me. The 2nd Amendment is no more sacrosanct than any other amendment to the Constitution. The Judicial Branch re-interprets the Constitution all the time.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Jun 23, 2016 17:11:06 GMT
So, the GOP is basically taking its Barbies and going home? They are refusing to do any work and run away by declaring almost TWO WEEKS off for the Fourth of July? Who gets 2 weeks off for the 4th of July? So, all of you decrying the Wisconsin House members upthread for leaving and refusing to vote and work, why silent now?
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 23, 2016 17:36:10 GMT
So, the GOP is basically taking its Barbies and going home? They are refusing to do any work and run away by declaring almost TWO WEEKS off for the Fourth of July? Who gets 2 weeks off for the 4th of July? So, all of you decrying the Wisconsin House members upthread for leaving and refusing to vote and work, why silent now? Reread the politico article. The did do work - they voted on the necessary bills scheduled before break (which was previously scheduled for Friday, TWO DAYS earlier) including funding to combat the Zitka virus. They just didn't bring the bill the Democrats wanted onto the floor.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Jun 23, 2016 17:38:27 GMT
So, the GOP is basically taking its Barbies and going home? They are refusing to do any work and run away by declaring almost TWO WEEKS off for the Fourth of July? Who gets 2 weeks off for the 4th of July? So, all of you decrying the Wisconsin House members upthread for leaving and refusing to vote and work, why silent now? Reread the politico article. The did do work - they voted on the necessary bills scheduled before break (which was previously scheduled for Friday, TWO DAYS earlier) including funding to combat the Zitka virus. They just didn't bring the bill the Democrats wanted onto the floor. Yeah, and then they took their Barbies and went home early. So, you can just take two days off with pay on a whim because you finished two tasks, leaving a mountain of work left undone?
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 17:48:35 GMT
They also attempted to pass a bill to stop the Fiduciary Rule implemented by the DOL.
Are you fucking kidding me? A rule that would protect clients from their financial advisors. Thank goodness they failed....but it certainly sent a clear message to the electorate.
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 23, 2016 18:01:51 GMT
They also attempted to pass a bill to stop the Fiduciary Rule implemented by the DOL. Are you fucking kidding me? A rule that would protect clients from their financial advisors. Thank goodness they failed....but it certainly sent a clear message to the electorate. The DOL rule is utterly flawed. It contradicts many of the existing regulations set forth by other agencies. It's a 1,023 page mess. The SEC was set to release it's own fiduciary rules next year, but the DOL was determined to drive forward despite multiple BIPARTISAN calls for changes to prevent a regulatory nightmare.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 18:12:08 GMT
They also attempted to pass a bill to stop the Fiduciary Rule implemented by the DOL. Are you fucking kidding me? A rule that would protect clients from their financial advisors. Thank goodness they failed....but it certainly sent a clear message to the electorate. The DOL rule is utterly flawed. It contradicts many of the existing regulations set forth by other agencies. It's a 1,023 page mess. The SEC was set to release it's own fiduciary rules next year, but the DOL was determined to drive forward despite multiple BIPARTISAN calls for changes to prevent a regulatory nightmare. Let me fix that for you.....In my opinion....because I'm reading something different that what you have stated....and boy, those three dems (one of who I've had a problem with prior to this) definitely deserved CAPITAL LETTERS.
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 23, 2016 18:20:24 GMT
You're reading the pretty headline - a rule to protect investors from their brokers. Who in the world wouldn't want that. The devil is always in the details. It was way more than three Democrats who had issues with this rule - they were just the ones willing to actually vote to repeal it instead of just sending letters pointing out the flaws.
|
|
|
Post by whopea on Jun 23, 2016 18:42:55 GMT
"Taxation without representation" was the phrase that started this country. And here we are all these many years later facing a form of that very situation that started a revolution. What is happening ,in too many cases, if one party has the majority and a big enough of a majority they are shutting down the minority. The majority runs the table and they don't want any input from the minority. Compromise is a dirty word. If you happen to be a member of the minority party then your elected official is being shut out for no other reason then they are a member of the minority party. Which means I'm paying taxes but because my elected respresentative is a member of the minority party I have no representation in the government. That is what happened in Wisconsin, that is what is happening in other states that has a big enough majority of one party, and that is what is happening in Congress. And it's wrong. It's wrong when the Democrats do it and it's wrong when the Republicans do it. Because when it's done the majority party is taking away the representation of people who are members of the minority party and who are paying taxes. Taxation without representation. I'm glad you think it's wrong when the Democrats do it, although I'd be hard pressed to remember you chastising Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi on the health care legislation debate / passage. Isn't Barack Obama the one who highlighted this issue to begin with? He once said something like 'I won - get over it' and 'Republicans can go to the back of the bus'. I don't remember any outrage from you or your side then.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 19:24:35 GMT
So who would like to explain why this proposal was voted down: "proposal to update the background check system for gun purchases, which would have required states to add more information on mental health records to a national database. It also included a provision to alert law enforcement agencies when an individual who was on a government terror watch list in the last five years buys a gun." Because it doesn't do anything. The goal is to stop those people from buying guns. Not "letting someone know once they do". That might be too late. The other GOP bill was voted down by Dems because it was only allowing the FBI 72 hours to block a sale. The FBI themselves have said that's not long enough . So again ... it didn't really do anything. That's not how it works. It's illegal for a gun shop to sell to someone who isn't legally allowed to purchase and no gun shop owner will do it and risk his business and jail time. What it does is alert when they ATTEMPT to purchase. My husband was in a gun shop when when someone with multiple warrants on him attempted to purchase. Police came in with their guns drawn and arrested him on the spot. I wish everyone could apply that same understanding that there are valid reasons for the Dems to vote it down, to the reasoning that the Republicans vote bills down.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 19:28:13 GMT
"Taxation without representation" was the phrase that started this country. And here we are all these many years later facing a form of that very situation that started a revolution. What is happening ,in too many cases, if one party has the majority and a big enough of a majority they are shutting down the minority. The majority runs the table and they don't want any input from the minority. Compromise is a dirty word. If you happen to be a member of the minority party then your elected official is being shut out for no other reason then they are a member of the minority party. Which means I'm paying taxes but because my elected respresentative is a member of the minority party I have no representation in the government. That is what happened in Wisconsin, that is what is happening in other states that has a big enough majority of one party, and that is what is happening in Congress. And it's wrong. It's wrong when the Democrats do it and it's wrong when the Republicans do it. Because when it's done the majority party is taking away the representation of people who are members of the minority party and who are paying taxes. Taxation without representation. I'm glad you think it's wrong when the Democrats do it, although I'd be hard pressed to remember you chastising Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi on the health care legislation debate / passage. Isn't Barack Obama the one who highlighted this issue to begin with? He once said something like 'I won - get over it' and 'Republicans can go to the back of the bus'. I don't remember any outrage from you or your side then. First what I remember is the Democrats wasting a lot of time trying to work with the Republicans on the ACA and at every attempt by the Democrats the Republicans pretty much told the Democrats to shove it. How the Republicans treated the Democrats with the ACA reminds me of Lucy, her football, and Charlie Brown. Everytime Charie Brown would go to kick the football held by Lucy at the last minute she pulls the football and Charlie Brown lands on his back. But yet he keeps trying because he thinks this may be the time she holds the ball and I can kick it. Every time the Republicans singled they might be willing to work on the ACA the Democrats at the last minute they would pull the "football" leaving the Democrats looking silly. Second may I call to your attention the Hastert Rule aka the majority of the majority rule. Hastert you may recall is a Republican and he was Speaker of the House in the 90's. The Hastert rule was followed by Republicans long before Obama became President and before Pelosi was Speaker of the House and before Harry Reid was Majority Leader in the Senate. In fact the Hastert Rule is still followed today by House Republicans. May I also point out to you prior to Hastert Rule the two sides use to work together. "Compromise" was not a dirty word. So if you don't like the tone of the Democrats in 2009 or even today I think that might have something to do with the Hastert Rule from the 90's. But in any case it's wrong for the majority party to shut out the minority party.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 20:19:01 GMT
Of course it is! (and I mean that sarcastically) The difference in the issues is ,that even though both involve killing babies/children, you agree with one right (abortion) and disagree with the other (gun rights) Therefore, you find a non-existent distinction between them. This is exactly my point. The "my way is the right way" attitude keeps this country polarized
Actually, they don't both involve killing children. Only one does.I don't support abortion. I support a woman's right to control over her body. Big difference. I'm pro-choice and I'm extremely thankful I've never been in the position to have to choose, but you're only fooling yourself if you're arguing that it's not a person growing there.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 23, 2016 20:20:17 GMT
The first act of any tyrant before genocide is to claim the people to be killed are not "people".
|
|
|
Post by ilikepink on Jun 23, 2016 20:30:23 GMT
We all get so stubborn in our opinions and wants that we forget there is another side, with opinions and wants of their own - which is where compromise comes in. Two people (one from each side) have to be big enough to sit down and try and come to a compromise. Neither side will get everything, but it's a start. I never thought I'd miss Ronald Reagan, but this kind of crap would never had happened on his watch. elaine - who takes two weeks off for the 4th of July? The people we pay to represent us; the people we have selected to create the laws for our country that keep us safe, allow us to conduct our lives and our businesses; the people that don't seem to understand that we all would like them to work together to create those laws. Unfortunately, they will get time off to celebrate the birth of our nation, while the rest of us work to pay taxes to keep them employed.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 13:27:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 20:44:48 GMT
So, the GOP is basically taking its Barbies and going home? They are refusing to do any work and run away by declaring almost TWO WEEKS off for the Fourth of July? Who gets 2 weeks off for the 4th of July?
So, all of you decrying the Wisconsin House members upthread for leaving and refusing to vote and work, why silent now? Is it only the Republicans that are taking 2 weeks off?
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Jun 23, 2016 20:57:56 GMT
So, the GOP is basically taking its Barbies and going home? They are refusing to do any work and run away by declaring almost TWO WEEKS off for the Fourth of July? Who gets 2 weeks off for the 4th of July?
So, all of you decrying the Wisconsin House members upthread for leaving and refusing to vote and work, why silent now? Is it only the Republicans that are taking 2 weeks off? The Democrats were chanting "No Break." They were calling to not have the break altogether. Unfortunately, the House isn't able to run when more than 50% choose to extend their vacation leave town early. Although lately one could make the case that it isn't able to get any work done with 100% attendance either. LOL.
|
|
|
Post by Laurie on Jun 23, 2016 21:00:03 GMT
I think most people that know me on this board know that I don't usually use profanity in my post. But...
This whole thing is fucking ridiculous. I am so tired of 2 parties not being able to get along and resulting in throwing massive temper tantrums when they don't get their way.
How the hell can we expect those in DC to stop with the name calling, bullying and temper tantrums when women on a scrapbooking message board can't even handle it?
Ridiculousness. Absolute ridiculousness.
|
|