Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:58:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 2:48:49 GMT
I would never lump badly trained police officers or officers that have no business wearing the uniform in with all LEOs, I grew up in a LEO household, but I would suggest that some take that same advise and do the same with Black Lives Matter or black people in general.....don't lump them all together.
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ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,037
Location: Valley of the Sun
Jul 26, 2014 21:02:07 GMT
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Jul 22, 2016 4:59:36 GMT
I find it hard to believe that a trained officer completely missed a sitting 'target' and hit another person that was on the ground nearby.
That sounds like a total bs lame excuse.
'Oops my aim was bad' sounds better than 'yeah I shot the black guy with his hands up who was trying to help us control this autistic dude.' Not much, but I guess that sounds a little better.
I don't think that every cop is out targeting black people but it sure does seem like in some areas that black men are not given the same benefit of the doubt and the same nonviolent control measures that others are given.
Seriously--how can anyone make an excuse for this? This was either sheer incompetence or racial profiling. There is no 'oops' excuse that makes sense.
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Jul 22, 2016 14:41:44 GMT
The professional associations, licensing boards, unions need to take quicker action removing people that are unfit for duty.
Unfortunately it's not that easy due to employment laws that can protect employees - ADA, FMLA, union contracts, discrimination laws, etc. It's often hard to know how to define "unfit for duty". You sometimes can't know until after with hindsight that someone might have been unfit. And ones definition of unfit is often not the same as someone else. A lot of times the employee must bring something to the employer's attention rather than the employer seeking it out...many times someone who might be "unfit" is concerned about losing their job if they bring it up (under ADA the employee generally has to bring forward the issue and to ask for help/accommodation and the law is setup for employers NOT to open a can of worms without that first and ADA has a privacy/confidentiality portion). Some industries do have fit for duty exams (like police, etc) but even then if the employee isn't forthcoming about issues and hides it well, there's not much more others can do.
I too hate the title of this post -- it is generalizing. I do think the culture is changing and cities/police groups need more training, but that can take time. And being in hiring, I can say that you don't always get to pick from the best and brightest people. You have to hire from those that apply. And you do your best to train them, but you can't always know how they will react in any given situation. I think we are at a point in history where the culture has been riled up on every side with way too much media coverage and way too much instant reaction and immediate judgement...
I am very thankful neither of these men were killed. I hope they all get the help that they will need.
no, we're at a point where we are sick of seeing unarmed black people killed or beaten by the cops for petty crimes or no crimes at all, and we won't be silenced by white supremacy anymore. We're sick of worrying that our spouses and children aren't going to come home because they forgot to use a turn signal, or just 'looked suspicious' (aka not white) while taking a walk through their own neighborhood. If you think the fears are only acceptable on one side, and it happens to be the side who is doing the murdering without reprocussion or served justice, you are perpetuating that white supremacy.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jul 22, 2016 15:33:55 GMT
I find it hard to believe that a trained officer completely missed a sitting 'target' and hit another person that was on the ground nearby. That sounds like a total bs lame excuse. 'Oops my aim was bad' sounds better than 'yeah I shot the black guy with his hands up who was trying to help us control this autistic dude.' Not much, but I guess that sounds a little better. I don't think that every cop is out targeting black people but it sure does seem like in some areas that black men are not given the same benefit of the doubt and the same nonviolent control measures that others are given. Seriously--how can anyone make an excuse for this? This was either sheer incompetence or racial profiling. There is no 'oops' excuse that makes sense. Only 1 out of 3 shots he fired even hit the guy he wasn't shooting at. 0/3 hit his target. His aim was ridiculously bad. Where did the other 2 shots end up I wonder?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:58:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 15:43:31 GMT
On Facebook, NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt, posed this headline: Police union: Officer accidentally shot caregiver while trying to shoot subject of 911 call; believed caregiver's life was in danger.
This was in response to that headline by one of the posters. No excuses made, rational well-thought out response:
Stop it already. I've been blue for thirty years and call bs on the statement. It was a careless and reckless discharge of the firearm. Even if he thought the other person had a gun, it is reckless since an innocent was shot. There are times when there is no explanation that can justify the event. This is most likely one of those times. The officer is responsible for every round that leaves the barrel. Trying to excuse this or make a rational statement to justify this is only to go make it worse on us
The PBA president issued one of the most ignorant statements trying to justify this. If the officer truly believed the autistic person was a threat and the caregiver was accidentally shot, then why handcuff the caregiver if he was not a threat. That action debunks any rationale. Just admit the fact that the officer negligently discharged the firearm. Even if he thought he was in the right, an innocent person was shot.
I am an advocate of waiting for all of the facts to come in, but this is relatively self-explanatory. Every officer I have talked to and watched the video with agreed that it was very evident; there was no immediate threat, especially with the explanation the caregiver was giving.
There are times when one of our brothers or sisters crosses the line and we have to admit that. That is the only way the trust can start between the police and the community. This is one of those times. The PBA is trying to put a spin on this just like the media puts a spin on any police shooting. To the PBA President: Just stop it. I am confident when I can say that you do not reflect the feelings of many of the good officers on the street. I am not condemning the officer involved as it appears that it was not intentional; rather, negligent and careless. There is no other way to explain the shooting. It was OBVIOUS that the autistic person did NOT have a weapon in his hand and was not posing a threat. Even though the 911 call indicated a gun, it does not take a brain surgeon to determine what was going on once the scene was identified.
Again, trust only begins when we admit when we make mistakes and communicate intelligently with the community. Making statements like the PBA did is an insult to the hard working officers and the community. We are not ignorant swine that are to be lead into believing rhetoric. I would much rather have heard the PBA state that they would wait for all the facts to be presented before making any statement. Just as parents do with their children when they error, the PBA can support the officer, but ensure that he accepts responsibility for his actions as well.
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Post by ntsf on Jul 22, 2016 16:40:38 GMT
I just saw a great article that it is not only the shooting..it is that the police fail to provide first aid...more interested in handcuffing dying people...
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Post by jenis40 on Jul 22, 2016 17:04:05 GMT
On Facebook, NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt, posed this headline: Police union: Officer accidentally shot caregiver while trying to shoot subject of 911 call; believed caregiver's life was in danger. This was in response to that headline by one of the posters. No excuses made, rational well-thought out response: Stop it already. I've been blue for thirty years and call bs on the statement. It was a careless and reckless discharge of the firearm. Even if he thought the other person had a gun, it is reckless since an innocent was shot. There are times when there is no explanation that can justify the event. This is most likely one of those times. The officer is responsible for every round that leaves the barrel. Trying to excuse this or make a rational statement to justify this is only to go make it worse on us
The PBA president issued one of the most ignorant statements trying to justify this. If the officer truly believed the autistic person was a threat and the caregiver was accidentally shot, then why handcuff the caregiver if he was not a threat. That action debunks any rationale. Just admit the fact that the officer negligently discharged the firearm. Even if he thought he was in the right, an innocent person was shot.
I am an advocate of waiting for all of the facts to come in, but this is relatively self-explanatory. Every officer I have talked to and watched the video with agreed that it was very evident; there was no immediate threat, especially with the explanation the caregiver was giving.
There are times when one of our brothers or sisters crosses the line and we have to admit that. That is the only way the trust can start between the police and the community. This is one of those times. The PBA is trying to put a spin on this just like the media puts a spin on any police shooting. To the PBA President: Just stop it. I am confident when I can say that you do not reflect the feelings of many of the good officers on the street. I am not condemning the officer involved as it appears that it was not intentional; rather, negligent and careless. There is no other way to explain the shooting. It was OBVIOUS that the autistic person did NOT have a weapon in his hand and was not posing a threat. Even though the 911 call indicated a gun, it does not take a brain surgeon to determine what was going on once the scene was identified.
Again, trust only begins when we admit when we make mistakes and communicate intelligently with the community. Making statements like the PBA did is an insult to the hard working officers and the community. We are not ignorant swine that are to be lead into believing rhetoric. I would much rather have heard the PBA state that they would wait for all the facts to be presented before making any statement. Just as parents do with their children when they error, the PBA can support the officer, but ensure that he accepts responsibility for his actions as well.This is what we need to hear more of when the FACTS prove that the LEO was in the wrong. Not the blue line bullshit that only pisses off everyone. Time for LEO to stop CYA and admit that at best sometimes an error in judgment has occurred and at worst it was a malicious act. AGAIN, I want matters fully investigated and agree that sometimes damning video does not bear out to be accurate. But this constant CYA does make LEO look bad and lends credence and anger to BLM.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jul 22, 2016 20:16:10 GMT
Maybe change is in the air - Father Nathan MonkFather Nathan Monk 1 hr · Yesterday afternoon I received a call from the police department about a woman and her autistic daughter who were stranded downtown. They were homeless and living under the overpass. The mother sat with her earthly belongings strung around her or placed in garbage bags. A small grill set off to the side smoldering. I arrived on the scene as an officer waited with her. Another officer was on the phone attempting to find some resources. Thanks to the homeless coalition, we were able to place her in a motel through the weekend. Within minutes five officers arrived on the scene to help her pack up her belongings and transport them to their temporary home. They helped her load everything into the motel room, one officer handed her some money. He tried to do it secretly, but I noticed. I couldn't help but soak in every moment of what was happening around me. When I got home, I looked at this photo I took of the woman's belongings and her just sitting there, confused and scared. She was postured as if we were in her living room. And we were. This is not something that should be happening in a first world country. But I also took note of the extremely different way the police handled this situation vs. how it's been done in the past. There was a once upon a time in our community that this wouldn't be how this situation was handled. There are countless communities throughout our country where this women would have ended up in handcuffs...or even worse. Nothing about how this situation was protocol. They did not have to call agencies to seek assistance. They did not have to help move her stuff. They could have just told her to move along. But they didn't. They chose love, compassion, and to see the human element in this situation. We need to create a world where we no longer have mothers living under an overpass. We need reform so that autistic people and their loved ones aren't forced into homelessness. We need to stop addressing homelessness as a criminal action. We need to change a lot of things from education to healthcare in order to truly address the systemic issues of poverty and homelessness. But until that day comes, I'm glad to see that there was a change in how a very real and personal situation was handled yesterday. It gave me hope for the future.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:58:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 20:24:18 GMT
Maybe change is in the air - Father Nathan MonkFather Nathan Monk 1 hr · Yesterday afternoon I received a call from the police department about a woman and her autistic daughter who were stranded downtown. They were homeless and living under the overpass. The mother sat with her earthly belongings strung around her or placed in garbage bags. A small grill set off to the side smoldering. I arrived on the scene as an officer waited with her. Another officer was on the phone attempting to find some resources. Thanks to the homeless coalition, we were able to place her in a motel through the weekend. Within minutes five officers arrived on the scene to help her pack up her belongings and transport them to their temporary home. They helped her load everything into the motel room, one officer handed her some money. He tried to do it secretly, but I noticed. I couldn't help but soak in every moment of what was happening around me. When I got home, I looked at this photo I took of the woman's belongings and her just sitting there, confused and scared. She was postured as if we were in her living room. And we were. This is not something that should be happening in a first world country. But I also took note of the extremely different way the police handled this situation vs. how it's been done in the past. There was a once upon a time in our community that this wouldn't be how this situation was handled. There are countless communities throughout our country where this women would have ended up in handcuffs...or even worse. Nothing about how this situation was protocol. They did not have to call agencies to seek assistance. They did not have to help move her stuff. They could have just told her to move along. But they didn't. They chose love, compassion, and to see the human element in this situation. We need to create a world where we no longer have mothers living under an overpass. We need reform so that autistic people and their loved ones aren't forced into homelessness. We need to stop addressing homelessness as a criminal action. We need to change a lot of things from education to healthcare in order to truly address the systemic issues of poverty and homelessness. But until that day comes, I'm glad to see that there was a change in how a very real and personal situation was handled yesterday. It gave me hope for the future. I agree with what I bolded, for sure, but the way they handled this is not a one off and by no means new.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jul 22, 2016 20:42:37 GMT
Maybe change is in the air - Father Nathan MonkFather Nathan Monk 1 hr · Yesterday afternoon I received a call from the police department about a woman and her autistic daughter who were stranded downtown. They were homeless and living under the overpass. The mother sat with her earthly belongings strung around her or placed in garbage bags. A small grill set off to the side smoldering. I arrived on the scene as an officer waited with her. Another officer was on the phone attempting to find some resources. Thanks to the homeless coalition, we were able to place her in a motel through the weekend. Within minutes five officers arrived on the scene to help her pack up her belongings and transport them to their temporary home. They helped her load everything into the motel room, one officer handed her some money. He tried to do it secretly, but I noticed. I couldn't help but soak in every moment of what was happening around me. When I got home, I looked at this photo I took of the woman's belongings and her just sitting there, confused and scared. She was postured as if we were in her living room. And we were. This is not something that should be happening in a first world country. But I also took note of the extremely different way the police handled this situation vs. how it's been done in the past. There was a once upon a time in our community that this wouldn't be how this situation was handled. There are countless communities throughout our country where this women would have ended up in handcuffs...or even worse. Nothing about how this situation was protocol. They did not have to call agencies to seek assistance. They did not have to help move her stuff. They could have just told her to move along. But they didn't. They chose love, compassion, and to see the human element in this situation. We need to create a world where we no longer have mothers living under an overpass. We need reform so that autistic people and their loved ones aren't forced into homelessness. We need to stop addressing homelessness as a criminal action. We need to change a lot of things from education to healthcare in order to truly address the systemic issues of poverty and homelessness. But until that day comes, I'm glad to see that there was a change in how a very real and personal situation was handled yesterday. It gave me hope for the future. I agree with what I bolded, for sure, but the way they handled this is not a one off and by no means new. Seriously, this man works with homeless situations EVERY DAY. If he says this was handled differently than he has previously witnessed I have no reason to doubt him. Why do you devalue this man's experiences? SaveSave
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 6:58:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 20:49:08 GMT
I agree with what I bolded, for sure, but the way they handled this is not a one off and by no means new. Seriously, this man works with homeless situations EVERY DAY. If he says this was handled differently than he has previously witnessed I have no reason to doubt him. Why do you devalue this man's experiences? SaveSaveI'm not devaluing HIS experiences. It is new to him, but not new in general. It isn't the way it's always done and probably not SOP, but it has been done, often.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Jul 23, 2016 18:21:23 GMT
The more I hear about this, the more sick to my stomach I get. I have a son with autism. The last thing I heard is the cop was going to shoot the autistic man and missed. He shot 3 shots but only hit the therapist once. Should he even be carrying a gun? The autistic man was no threat to either of the cops or his therapist. The therapist told the officers he had a toy truck, not a gun. Sadly, I could see them shooting him if he was charging the officers or beating up on the cops or the therapist. But, that was not the case. He was sitting at the feet of the therapist.
It's time that first responders are trained to handle individuals with disabilities. I spoke with one of our Senators a few years back who has two grand children with autism. I won't go into detail as to his grands, but one got hurt and the ambulance was called. The EMTs had a tough time trying to get any response from the child. He was non-verbal. After that, the Senator gained support in the senate and house for a manual to be written to help first responders know how/what to do when encountering an individual with disabilities. A bill was passed and money set aside to write this manual. We're 7 years out since it was approved, it's never been written and the Senator is no longer there. Needless to say, I seriously doubt it will ever be written and our governor will probably raid that money like he's done since he's been in office and stripped millions from those agencies that work/house those with disabilities.
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,979
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jul 23, 2016 23:39:11 GMT
Yeah, well I DO think it is warranted. And I also think that refusing to acknowledge race as a factor "fuels the volatile fires we have right now." except the intended target wasn't black. The officer identified him as a white male. The officer stated after that he thought the therapist was in danger and he shot to save him. (I call by, but still) Since the officer has shitty aim, I don't think this is a race thinf I could buy the "this isn't a race thing, it is just a matter of bad aim" justification IF the officer had immediately rendered aid to the man he "accidentally" shot. Instead, he HANDCUFFED the victim and left him bleeding in the street. I don't think it requires any mental gymnastics to interpret that as racially motivated.
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